Model Forum / General / Models / July 2006

Did the Smith ever get it back in one piece?

WmB

Another point of view is that if it were not for these people searching the
world's obscure corners for long forgotten wrecks and then rebuilding them,
we would not have many of the fine flying examples we see today.

I am sure that the folks who spend the big bucks on recovery and
restoration, then more on keeping them in the air are just as interested as
we are in keeping examples of rare birds.  In most cases I really doubt that
they are in it for the money.  And I am really sure that since they have
lots of money, time and effort into the projects, they do everything they
can to ensure they don't even scratch it.

When a tragedy like this happens it is doubly bad.  We loose a beautifully
restored airplane and we loose a guy who probably thought a lot along the
same lines we do.  We build models and he builds real airplanes.  The size
of our airplane projects is different, and probably for most of us, the size
of our airplane budget is also a bit different, but I suspect that down deep
we would find a lot in common.

But the bottom line is that individual probably spent one hell of a lot of
his money and time on that airplane.  It is his to do what he wants to with
it.  If you don't like what he does with it, then figure out a way to write
him a check and then you can do what you want with it.

Norm

    I think we said about the same thing, didn't we?

I have to agree.  I'm a volunteer on the staff of the local air museum
(www.wingsmuseum.org) and we recently sponsored a visit of the EAA's
B-17G "Aluminum Overcast".  The EAA tours the USA with this aircraft
every year giving people rides and letting people walk through it (for
a price of course ;^).  This is the second year the Wings Over The
Rockies Museum in Denver was involved with the EAA's B-17 visit to
Centennial Airport in Englewood, Colorado.  Last year's visit turned
out to be very popular and an additional day needed to be added to
accommodate all the rides sold.  This year, an additional day was built
into the schedule but another day was needed and there were still
dozens of people that were turned away from buying a ride due to
schedule constraints.  I was really surprised by the popularity of the
B-17 visit and indicates to me that people really are interested in
aviation and history.

So why do I mention all this?  A living, breathing aircraft is much
more interesting than one on a pole or behind a rope.  An operating
aircraft with a significant story behind it, such as a B-17, really
makes history come alive for those who only know it from watching The
History Channel.  The experience is also priceless for those veterans
who experienced the aircraft first hand.  Watching the old WW II vets
during their visits to the B-17 were truly inspirational and moving.
To see a 70-year old vet get teary-eyed handling the .50 cal waist gun
that he used to man for the first time in over 60 years is a priceless
experience.  One of the museum volunteers was a B-17 pilot who has lost
most of his vision.  He got a ride in the '17 and afterwards I talked
to him about it.  He said he didn't really need to see it - the smell,
noise, and vibration vividly brought back the experience, even after 60
years.  I was on the ground crew for the B-17 flights so I got up
pretty close to the aircraft while it was operating and being that
close to a living, breathing, aeronautical dinosaur really is a
thrilling and valuable experience.  You don't get a good sense of the
sound, sensation, and power of these machines if they are just sitting
in a museum.  You really need to "experience" them in operation to
truly understand and appreciate them.

I used to believe that most vintage and warbird aircraft were too
historically valuable to be flown and should be placed in museums.
However, I have changed my mind on this.  It is just as important for
people to "experience" these aircraft to help them understand them on a
visceral level.  So as long as there are other examples of a flying
aircraft preserved in museums, then I say let people see, hear, and
feel them fly!

Martin

Planes or pilots? :o)

(kim)

Well, I would agree that I wouldn't want to see it on a pole but that isn't
what I was talking about.  What I said was that these rare and historic
warbirds (and they're all historic, not just ones that shot down aircraft,
etc, etc) would be better kept on the ground on display such as in a museum
environment (like at NASM or the AF Museum) where enthusiasts can enjoy
these for the next 50 (or more) years.  This particular one may or may not
(I don't know its flight history) have been just a nondescript F-86 but then
how many are left, nondescript or not?  How many P-40s or Spitfires?  How
many B-17s, etc, etc?

Then, after the next one is lost, how many?  And then the next one and,
and....?  Within not too much time you're out of F-86s (or P-51s, P-47s or
whatever aircraft you please) and all you'll have to remember them by is
photographs, videos, and the aluminum that was recycled from the wreckage to
make your Schlitz beer can.  I know no one can keep private owners from
flying these rare and valuable birds and it is a macho thing, both that
they're "man" enough to fly them and that they have the money to fly them.
However, I wish they would forget about the hedonistic rush and think more
of the historical value of the continued survival of these historic birds.
And that's my 50 cents worth.

Every time I luck out and get a ride in Collings' B-17 and/or B-24 I
keep in mind the subject of this discussion. The docents at all of the
stops on the yearly tour get to fill in the passenger load if it's
short. Those of us that have been doing it for years eventually pass in
order for the newer volunteers to get some time in.

No more right seat time, though. Also, no more WWII original crew
flying the birds. Full time pilots contracted to Collings nowadays.

The B-24 is the one some of us worry about now. She is the only stock
military condition Liberator flying today.

There is something to say about keeping 60 year old warbirds on the
ground, but if there are exaples in museums I don't see the problem.
The reaction of passengers and visitors is worth every minute of the
risk that we take. Talk to an old-timer who just took a ride in the
same type of plane that he spent his youth in sixty years ago. For that
matter, talk to his kids, grandkids and great-grandkids who, usually
for the first time, finally understand what grandpa experienced oh so
long ago.

Not limited to aircraft, either. When the Jerremiah O'Brien went to
Europe for the 50th anniversary of D-Day the fact that she was the only
ship left that was there in 1944 was not lost on the veterans and their
families.

Keep 'em Flying!

Tom

There are a couple of outfits making replicas. Me 262 and Grumman F3Fs
come immediately to mind, but there are others.

There are a lot of great stories about vets and emotions around
warbirds, but there was one last year that is a little different. We
have a nice 4th of July parade every year which includes some pretty
diverse people (it is Marin County, after all). We have all of the
traditional things such as color parties, bagpipe bands and the like,
but we also have the local contingent of Peacenicks. Last year a B-17
flew low over the parade when the Peacenicks were directly in front of
us. The woman holding a sign closest to us looked up and said "Wow! How
beautiful.". I told her quickly about the PCAM airshow held in Santa
Rosa in September and she actually showed up with her entire family.

PCAM is a great group. They have a good selection of aircraft from many
sources. Each aircraft has a crew, I'm on the T-33. Static displays
only, conditions from superb to wrecks. When it comes time to paint the
T-Bird the crew picked "my" mount from the 84th FIS at Hamilton AFB.
Unit hack with full squadron markings used for proficiencey time and
hauling TDYs around on sightseeing tours. Never did get a ride in the
squadron't F-106B.

Tom