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Model Forum / General / Models / August 2006Israeli black & yellow ID triangles
The recent Mid East 'activity' has gotten me interested in IDF a/c. I noticed that it seems only the Kfirs use(d) the yellow & black ID triangles. I've done a little Googling, but no answers. If the Kfir is the only a/c to use them, then why? What were they IDing the Kfir specifically against? MiG-21s? Enemy Mirages? > The recent Mid East 'activity' has gotten me interested in IDF a/c. > I noticed that it seems only the Kfirs use(d) the yellow & black ID > triangles. I've done a little Googling, but no answers. If the Kfir is > the only a/c to use them, then why? What were they IDing the Kfir > specifically against? MiG-21s? Enemy Mirages? Their own planes! Israeli airpower is so superior to the enemy that they risk being shot down by so-called 'friendly fire'. Israeli armoured vehicles have conspicuous markings on the back for the same reason. They also used to be triangles but now seem to be hebrew writing of some sort? In effect it is saying "Don't shoot me I'm on your side". (kim) >What were they IDing the Kfir >specifically against? MiG-21s? Enemy Mirages? The latter.  SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." Did their Mirages & Neshers use the triangles? I don't think I've seen pics of them with the triangles. > >What were they IDing the Kfir > >specifically against? MiG-21s? Enemy Mirages? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, > and the critics will flame you every time." >Did their Mirages & Neshers use the triangles? I don't think I've >seen pics of them with the triangles. I dunno - don't recall ever seeing any pics either. SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." > The recent Mid East 'activity' has gotten me interested in IDF a/c. >I noticed that it seems only the Kfirs use(d) the yellow & black ID >triangles. I've done a little Googling, but no answers. If the Kfir is >the only a/c to use them, then why? What were they IDing the Kfir >specifically against? MiG-21s? Enemy Mirages? I remember reading that the Egyptian AF soon painted triangles too to mimic IDAF craft to confuse Israeli forces. Another (memory) example is the RAAF Mirages sporting triangles similar to the IDAF's in geometry but only in black border. > The recent Mid East 'activity' has gotten me interested in IDF a/c. > I noticed that it seems only the Kfirs use(d) the yellow & black ID > triangles. I've done a little Googling, but no answers. If the Kfir is > the only a/c to use them, then why? What were they IDing the Kfir > specifically against? MiG-21s? Enemy Mirages? Mirages. Although, I have seen a picture of a Super Mystere B2 with similar markings on the wings. Presumably that was to differentiate the aircraft from MiG-17s or -19s. Once the Egyptian air force started to take delivery of US equipment, they found they had a similar problem in that they were using similar equipment to the Israeli air force. The Israelis were starting to withdraw F-4s by the time he Egyptians got their hands on them, but both air forces were using F-16s. The Egyptians painted large orange recognition markings on theirs. I often wonder why the Greeks and Turks don't do something similar with their F-16s. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. Check out the IAF section on my Website: http://www.davidpride.com/Aviation/IAF_Main.htm. You will notice the Super Mystere, Mirage IIICJ, Nesher, and Kfir all carry the yellow and black triangles. I presume all fighters of the period were marked similarly. > The recent Mid East 'activity' has gotten me interested in IDF a/c. > I noticed that it seems only the Kfirs use(d) the yellow & black ID > triangles. I've done a little Googling, but no answers. If the Kfir is > the only a/c to use them, then why? What were they IDing the Kfir > specifically against? MiG-21s? Enemy Mirages? >Check out the IAF section on my Website: >http://www.davidpride.com/Aviation/IAF_Main.htm. You will notice the Super >Mystere, Mirage IIICJ, Nesher, and Kfir all carry the yellow and black >triangles. I presume all fighters of the period were marked similarly. Did these aircraft actually carry the triangles while in service? Museums sometimes 'dress up' their display aircraft. SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." I found a pic of PM's Nesher box & it shows the triangles. How accuarte that is, I dunno. I also remember an artist concept of the Lavi had the triangles camo & the triangles. Seems counter productive to me. Camo it & then put big black & yellow 'caution' signs on it! > >Check out the IAF section on my Website: > >http://www.davidpride.com/Aviation/IAF_Main.htm. You will notice the Super [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, > and the critics will flame you every time." >I found a pic of PM's Nesher box & it shows the triangles. How >accuarte that is, I dunno. I also remember an artist concept of the >Lavi had the triangles camo & the triangles. I've seen drawings too but never a contemporary pic. I'm not saying that Mirages and Neshers didn't carry them in service, just that I don't recall ever seeing any pics showing it. SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." "Al Superczynski" <modeleral@deadspam.com.invalid> wrote in message > I've seen drawings too but never a contemporary pic. I'm not > saying that Mirages and Neshers didn't carry them in service, just > that I don't recall ever seeing any pics showing it. Hey, Al. Osprey's "Aircraft of the Aces #59 - Israeli Mirage and Nesher Aces" has several photos of Neshers and Shahaks with the black and yellow ID Triangles. In fact, on page 66 of that book there is a photo of an Israeli ground crew painting a Triangle on the stabilizer of a Nesher. The caption says that the IFF markings were ordered to be painted in early October of 1973 when reports began to filter in about Libyan Mirages being based in Egypt. Israeli pilots did in fact encounter Libyan Mirages on October 18. By the way, for the modeler interested in replicating the eye-catching scheme, Eduard's 1/48 Mirage IIICJ has the Triangle decals. Kevin >Osprey's "Aircraft of the Aces #59 - Israeli Mirage and Nesher Aces" has >several photos of Neshers and Shahaks with the black and yellow ID >Triangles. Thanks. ;) SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." As far as I know all the IAF Museum's aircraft carry historically accurate markings. >>Check out the IAF section on my Website: >>http://www.davidpride.com/Aviation/IAF_Main.htm. You will notice the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Did these aircraft actually carry the triangles while in > service? Museums sometimes 'dress up' their display aircraft. I was wondering about that. IIRC, their Mirage III is numbered "111". Considering the number of dipsticks out there (ie, eBay, etc.) who seem to not understand the difference in "111" & "III", it looks like the museum's inferring "III". Their Nesher, again, IIRC, is numbered "501" which to me, tries to indicate it's "Mirage 5, #1". Just my 2 cents. > As far as I know all the IAF Museum's aircraft carry historically accurate > markings. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, > > and the critics will flame you every time." >As far as I know all the IAF Museum's aircraft carry historically accurate >markings. That's good to know. :) SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." |
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