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Model Forum / General / Models / September 2006spitfire colors in humbrol numbers
hello i have a question about the spitfire MK VB what color do i need for the under surface and i use humbrol paint so what kind of numbers should i use thanks erik > hello > > i have a question about the spitfire MK VB what color do i need > for the under surface and i use humbrol paint so what kind of numbers should > i use > thanks erik Dark Green:H.163,Ocean Grey:H.106 and Light SeaGrey for underside:H.64.This the colors I used for my Brit planes of the 2WW. Reg. Han krol >>hello >> >>i have a question about the spitfire MK VB what color do i need >>for the under surface and i use humbrol paint so what kind of numbers > should >>i use >>thanks erik > Dark Green:H.163,Ocean Grey:H.106 and Light SeaGrey for underside:H.64.This > the colors I used for my Brit planes of the 2WW. > Reg. Han krol Early Mk.V Spits would have Sky undersurfaces. The order designating the switch from Sky to Medium Sea Grey for the undersides was issued in August, 1941 and was to be implimented "as convenient" on existing aircraft. Cheers, >>> hello >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > undersides was issued in August, 1941 and was to be implimented "as > convenient" on existing aircraft. LOL That's a *whole* can of worms you've opened there, Bill! :-D  SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. > >>> hello > >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. Sometimes I wonder if any 'known' colour schemes can be stated without trepidation. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. Of course. It's your model so interpret the colors as you see them best and go with it. There are so many factors that affect the impression of color on an object including fading, dirt and.or dust, depicting sunlight and/or shadow, quality of the particular can of paint, how well it was mixed and applied, how it was applied, etc, etc. I've always believed that just about any reasonably close shade of a particular color would be hard to argue an being absolutely wrong. SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it. My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- >> >>> hello >> >>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > >>hello > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Cheers, It should also be pointed out to the original poster that there was a change from Dark Earth (brown) to Ocean Gray on one of the uppersurface colors at the same time as the change from Sky to Medium Sea Gray. i.e. Spitfire V colors: before August of 1941: Dark Green/Dark Eart/Sky after August of 1941: Dark Green/Ocean Gray/Medium Sea Gray Bill Shuey -snip- >>Early Mk.V Spits would have Sky undersurfaces. >>The order designating the switch from Sky to Medium Sea Grey for the >>undersides was issued in August, 1941 and was to be implimented "as >>convenient" on existing aircraft. > It should also be pointed out to the original poster that there was a > change from Dark Earth (brown) to Ocean Gray on one of the uppersurface > colors at the same time as the change from Sky to Medium Sea Gray. > i.e. Spitfire V colors: > before August of 1941: Dark Green/Dark Eart/Sky > after August of 1941: Dark Green/Ocean Gray/Medium Sea Gray With the additional complication that, apparently because of a shortage of the new Ocean Grey paint, a mixture of seven parts Medium Sea Grey and one part Night was authorized for use as a temporary expedient. The resulting color was similar to but clearly different from Ocean Grey. Isn't this stuff fun!? Cheers, > hello > > i have a question about the spitfire MK VB what color do i need > for the under surface and i use humbrol paint so what kind of numbers should > i use > thanks erik Spitfire Mk.Vb undersurfaces would be Sky or Medium Sea Grey. Sky would be the colour for earlier aircraft (up to late '41) with Dark Green and Dark Earth topside camouflage. Medium Sea Grey would be associated with Dark Green and Ocean Grey topsides. Mk.V's also flew in the Mediterranean and Far East theatres. The Mediterranean theatre aircraft are most likely to have been Azure Blue on the underside, with Dark Earth and Middle Stone topsides camouflage. Far Eastern aircraft seem to have been Dark Green and either Dark Earth or Ocean Grey, but Medium Sea Grey underneath. Colours faded quickly in the the tropical climate. Humbrol don't do a Sky, the nearest is 90, Matt Beige Green. It is pretty close. Humbrol 165 is Satin Medium Sea Grey. Azure Blue is Humbrol 157, a Matt colour. Which kit are you making, and what decal options have you chosen? These factors will narrow down the likely colour schemes. > Humbrol don't do a Sky, the nearest is 90, Matt Beige Green. It is > pretty close. And if it is an early war Spitfire that you are building, "pretty close" is all you need. The first aircraft with "Sky" undersurfaces used paint mixed at unit level, giving all sorts of weird and wonderful shades. Some were the infamous "duck egg green". Others has a shade of blue that was fairly similar to the Luftwaffe RLM65. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. > Spitfire Mk.Vb undersurfaces would be Sky or Medium Sea Grey. Sky would > be the colour for earlier aircraft (up to late '41) with Dark Green and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > pretty close. Humbrol 165 is Satin Medium Sea Grey. Azure Blue is > Humbrol 157, a Matt colour. Nice reply Alan! Probably an FAQ, but what blue would we use for Photo Reconnaisance? Quite fancy one of those. John >> Spitfire Mk.Vb undersurfaces would be Sky or Medium Sea Grey. Sky >> would be the colour for earlier aircraft (up to late '41) with Dark [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Nice reply Alan! Probably an FAQ, but what blue would we use for > Photo Reconnaisance? Quite fancy one of those. That depends on the PR role. High altitude PR was usually overall PRU Blue. Low altitude PR Spitfire had various overall pastel colours including blue, pink and even mauve! SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >> Spitfire Mk.Vb undersurfaces would be Sky or Medium Sea Grey. Sky would >> be the colour for earlier aircraft (up to late '41) with Dark Green and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > John As with Sky, Humbrol don't do a specific PRU Blue any more (there used to be one in the Authentic Colour range, along with a Sky and a few others). The nearest colour in the standard range used to be Petrol Blue 124, but that's been out of production for a while. Intermediate Blue 144 is close but too light and Azure Blue 157 is close but too dark. As long as you don't have two aircraft that are supposed to be different colours next to each other on the shelf (e.g. Intermediate Blue on a Corsair next to a PRU blue Spitfire) then you could use either one. Personally, I use Xtracolour enamels and an airbrush (they are formulated for airbrushing and are too thin to brush paint with). Xtracolour is gloss, so decal-ready, and has most of the colours I need, including PRU Blue X008, PRU Pink X035 and PRU Mauve X036. PRU Mauve seems to have been part of a Fleet Air Arm Photographic Reconnaissance Low Flying Scheme, which had Dark Sea Green and Extra Dark Sea Grey camouflage on top. > PRU Mauve seems to have been part of a Fleet Air Arm Photographic > Reconnaissance Low Flying Scheme, which had Dark Sea Green and Extra > Dark Sea Grey camouflage on top. What aircraft would have worn this scheme? SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >> PRU Mauve seems to have been part of a Fleet Air Arm Photographic >> Reconnaissance Low Flying Scheme, which had Dark Sea Green and Extra >> Dark Sea Grey camouflage on top. > > What aircraft would have worn this scheme? Jon Freeman's On Target Profile 8, "Photo Reconnaissance Spitfires in Worldwide Service", has profiles of a PR Mk.XIII of 718 NAS, an FAA Army Co-op training unit, wearing this scheme in 1943; an FR Mk.XIVe flown by the Lubeck station commander in 1947, and another Mk.XIVe of 2 Sdn. at Wunsdorf, also in 1947. Paul Lucas's Combat Colours No.5, "The De Havilland Mosquito in RAF Photographic Reconnaissance and Bomber service: 1941 to 1945" describes two schemes being used by the PRU at Benson in December 1942, overall PRU Blue for high flying aircraft and EDSG/Dark Sea Green over PRU Mauve for low flying aircraft. PRU Mauve is described as 5 parts PRU Pink, 2 parts PRU Blue and one part Ident Red. From this it would seem that any aircraft in use by the PRU for low level duties could have worn this scheme. The schemes were described in response to a request from Washington in 17 December 1942 for details of any types of special camouflage. I was guessing about the FAA part, from the FAA colours used. Having read further I now think it was a PRU invention and a specific low-level scheme. Someone has posted here http://www.europeanaf.org/forum/showthread.php?p=28093 Appendix IX from Morgan and Shacklady's 'SPITFIRE: THE HISTORY'. Here it says that the EDSG/Green/Mauve low-level scheme came out of the same 1941 studies that resulted in the Green/Grey/Grey Day Fighter scheme that superseded the green and brown uppers of the BoB. When I came back to aircraft modelling in the early 1980's, the first model I made was a Spitfire FRXIVe of 2 Sdn. I cross-kitted a Frog MkXIV and a Heller MkXVI because there was no "teardrop" Spitfire available. I painted it in standard day fighter scheme of OG/DG/MSG. Does this mean that I have to repaint it? Incidentally, I used the bits left over to produce a MkIX so that nothing was wasted. Them was the days. Gordon McLaughlin > the Lubeck station commander in 1947, and another Mk.XIVe of 2 Sdn. at > Wunsdorf, also in 1947. > When I came back to aircraft modelling in the early 1980's, the first model > I made was a Spitfire FRXIVe of 2 Sdn. I cross-kitted a Frog MkXIV and a > Heller MkXVI because there was no "teardrop" Spitfire available. I painted > it in standard day fighter scheme of OG/DG/MSG. Does this mean that I have > to repaint it? Certainly not. The book I used has profiles of other 2 Sdn. Mk.XIVe's in overall silver and Green/Grey/Grey. The profile picture is only a secondary reference (not a contemporary photograph) and at best is only good for the specific aircraft depicted. I believe the research behind the On Target books is good, so I'm willing to trust them - for that aircraft only, not anything else in 2 Sdn. :-) > Nice reply Alan! Probably an FAQ, but what blue would we use for Photo > Reconnaisance? Quite fancy one of those. PRU blue. The color is available from a number of paint manufacturers. Cheers, > hello > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > i use > thanks erik Perhaps it might be a better idea to use Xtracolour or a different manufacturer rather than Humbrol since Humbrol have gone into receivership and the availability is beginning to become non existent for some colours. The colours that Xtracolour have are labelled as specific colours for the Force that used them and as such mean that there is no mixing involved for stock colours by the RAF other than the PRU Mauve. Hope this helps Gondor I'm sure that I've seen Xtracolour PRU Mauve. I agree that Xtracolour are very good and I disagree with whoever it was who said they aren't suitable for brushing. I've used a lot of Xtracolour and I've never owned an airbrush. Gordon McLaughlin >> hello >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Gondor |
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