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Model Forum / General / Models / October 2006Academy B-24 info needed
I'm thinking of doing a Matchbox Privateer with B-24 wings & engines. I have the old Airfix & Revell B-24s in my stash, & of the two, the Airfix kit's panel lines & detail would be more along the lines of the Matchbox kits. Does anyone have the Academy kit & hopefully a Privateer kit who could see how the panel lines compare? If the Academy kit's even closer than the Airfix, I might need to get one. TIA. >I'm thinking of doing a Matchbox Privateer with B-24 wings & >engines. I'm not sure what you hope to gain by doing that. The engines and cowlings would still be wrong. >I have the old Airfix & Revell B-24s in my stash, & of the >two, the Airfix kit's panel lines & detail would be more along the >lines of the Matchbox kits. Does anyone have the Academy kit & >hopefully a Privateer kit who could see how the panel lines compare? The Academy kit has fine recessed panel lines, much like a new Hasegawa kit. >If the Academy kit's even closer than the Airfix, I might need to get one. Why not just get a set of correct cowlings/engines from Ron's Resins and use the Matchbox wings? Meteor Productions lists them at http://tinyurl.com/j88rh.  SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." I started out thinking of it because I'll have most of the fuselage from the Privateer from a kitbash to make an R2Y & I already have a set of Airfix B-24 wings from a planned Japanese bomber project. Then I recalled the B-24N, which was, IIRC, sort of a B-24J with a Privateer tail, so I thought I might just build a B-24N, & of course, that leads to other thoughts. Regarding aftermarket stuff, I figure I can usually get a whole kit as cheap or cheaper & have more spare parts left over. The exception is usually Squadron canopies & Aeroclub props & odds & ends. > >I'm thinking of doing a Matchbox Privateer with B-24 wings & > >engines. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, > and the critics will flame you every time." >I started out thinking of it because I'll have most of the >fuselage from the Privateer from a kitbash to make an R2Y & I already >have a set of Airfix B-24 wings from a planned Japanese bomber project. >Then I recalled the B-24N, which was, IIRC, sort of a B-24J with a >Privateer tail, so I thought I might just build a B-24N, & of course, >that leads to other thoughts. That makes sense. I guess. ;-p >Regarding aftermarket stuff, I figure I >can usually get a whole kit as cheap or cheaper... Except that no kits have the correct cowlings for a Privateer. Moot point since that's not what you're up to. SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." What's wrong with the cowls anyway? > >I started out thinking of it because I'll have most of the > >fuselage from the Privateer from a kitbash to make an R2Y & I already [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, > and the critics will flame you every time." >What's wrong with the cowls anyway? The Matchbox Privateer's cowls are just B-24 cowls rotated 90 degrees. They're entirely the wrong shape. SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." > >What's wrong with the cowls anyway? > > The Matchbox Privateer's cowls are just B-24 cowls rotated 90 > degrees. They're entirely the wrong shape. Here are a few detail shots of our Privateer: http://www.kos.fotki.com/aircraft_photos/yankee_air_museum/static_display_aircra ft/pb4-y2_privateer/ Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, R-2600s? > > >What's wrong with the cowls anyway? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.kos.fotki.com/aircraft_photos/yankee_air_museum/static_display_aircra ft/pb4-y2_privateer/ > Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, > R-2600s? The original engines were Pratt & Whitney R-1830-94s of 1350 horsepower, according to Ray Wagner's "American Combat Planes". I suspect Kos' ship is a former fire bomber with Wright R-1820s substituted. Bill Shuey Why 1820s? I thought 2600s were the choice for firebombers. > > Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, > > R-2600s? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Bill Shuey > Why 1820s? I thought 2600s were the choice for firebombers. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > suspect Kos' ship is a former fire bomber with Wright R-1820s > > substituted. Bill Shuey The P&W 1830-94 is kind of a rare engine and at the time there were ALOT of B-25 QECs running around, so the firebomber 4Y-2s were reengined with the R-2600 for a easy boost in horsepower. If you want to do a Privateer firebomber you need to get 4 B-25 engines and cowls. > > Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, > > R-2600s? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > suspect Kos' ship is a former fire bomber with Wright R-1820s > substituted. Bill Shuey Correct! The aircraft is a former Hawkins & Powers firebomber. I'm going out to there this afternoon, so I'll find out what engines are in there. I never paid much attention before. kos The cowls look like B-25s', so they're most likely R-2600s. > > > Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, > > > R-2600s? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > kos > > > Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, > > > R-2600s? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > kos I checked...Bill is right on the money. They are 1830-94s - unsupercharged. If anyone is interested in detail photos, drop me a line. Kos So why does it have the incorrect cowls? I know the CAF's "B-24" (actually a C-87, IIRC) has plain round cowls due to whatever 1830s it uses. Like this thread's been about, incorrect cowl shape of the M'box kit, & yours sure has incorrect ones! Are you sure THAT a/c doesn't have R-2600s on it? > > > > Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, > > > > R-2600s? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Kos > So why does it have the incorrect cowls? I know the CAF's "B-24" > (actually a C-87, IIRC) has plain round cowls due to whatever 1830s it > uses. Like this thread's been about, incorrect cowl shape of the M'box > kit, & yours sure has incorrect ones! Are you sure THAT a/c doesn't > have R-2600s on it? Diamond Lil is actually a LB-30, the 18th B-24 off the production line. The cowls are correct for that early of a plane, and the engines are R-1830s. > > > > > Hey! Kos's real ones are the wrong shape too! What's it got, > > > > > R-2600s? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > going out to there this afternoon, so I'll find out what engines are in > > > there. I never paid much attention before. The PB4Y-2s that were used as firebombers were all re-engined with B-25 QECs, either R-2600-29s or -35s. We bought 2 engines from the H&P auction that are -29s, the same engine that was in the early B-25J. The only difference between the 2 engines are the carbs, -29s are a Holly carb, -35s are Bendix. > > I checked...Bill is right on the money. They are 1830-94s - > > unsupercharged. If anyone is interested in detail photos, drop me a > > line. The P&W R1830-94 is supercharged, it is a single stge blower vs a 2 stage blower that was on the -92 engines. At lower altitude, the -94 can run at a higher power settings than the -92. I take care of a DC-3 that has been modified with -94s and we can fly all day at 36in manifold vs the 28in of the -92s. When the R-1830 was installed in the B-24, it had a single stage blower ( supercharger) and a exhaust driven Turbocharger. The B-17 had the same setup, except it was powered by Wright R-1820-97s. I couldn't remember exactly what she is, but I knew she wasn't a 'real' B-24 & that those were correct cowls & engines for her, specifically. It's just funny to have someone post pics of incorrect cowls (for stock Privateers anyway) when the thread turned to correct cowls for it. :) Just curious tho, do you know why R-2600s were chosen over R-2800s, other than the fact B-25 QECs were so available? Is that the same reason most, or maybe all, PBYs were also switched from 1830s to B-25 QECs? > > So why does it have the incorrect cowls? I know the CAF's "B-24" > > (actually a C-87, IIRC) has plain round cowls due to whatever 1830s it [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Turbocharger. The B-17 had the same setup, except it was powered by > Wright R-1820-97s. > > So why does it have the incorrect cowls? I know the CAF's "B-24" > > (actually a C-87, IIRC) has plain round cowls due to whatever 1830s it [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Turbocharger. The B-17 had the same setup, except it was powered by > Wright R-1820-97s. Well, the placard in front of the aircraft states that they are unturbocharged: http://images3.fotki.com/v35/fileQYUO/834d6/4/43185/374382/YAFAug2420030201.jpg I'll have to check with the crew on Saturday about the turbos. Here's our version of the DC-3 http://www.kos.fotki.com/aircraft_photos/yankee_air_museum/flyable_aircraft/c-47 /c47_sept_5_2003_0025.html Kos I bet if you check the data plates on the engines, you'll see that they aren't 1830s. Just a hunch they're R-2600s. > > > So why does it have the incorrect cowls? I know the CAF's "B-24" > > > (actually a C-87, IIRC) has plain round cowls due to whatever 1830s it [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Kos > Well, the placard in front of the aircraft states that they are > unturbocharged: The key word is TURBOCHARGED, a Turbo charger is exhaust driven and usually hangs under the airplane as in the B-24, B-17, P-38, P-47. The engines themselves are SUPERCHARGED, that is built into the engine and cannot be regulated except in the case of a 2 stage blower, then you will have a high and low blower, Engines like the R-1340-AN1 in the T-6 has stock a 10:1 blower, however, it is easy to change it at overhaul to a 12:1. > I'll have to check with the crew on Saturday about the turbos. Here's > our version of the DC-3 the R-1830-92 has a low blower of 7.15:1, as does the -94, how ever, the power rating are different, the -92 is 1200HP at 2700RPM and 41in manifold, the -94 is 1350HP @ 2800RPM and 52in manifold, the -94 also has a 2nd stage blower of 8.47:1 Here is the Official data on the 1830s: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/cdeb a991de18cfc38525676a00670747/$FILE/ATTENLOL/5. the reason the R-2600 was used in the conversions were simple, there were alot of them around and they were cheap. The B-25 was in service till the 60s, so there were alot of spares around for it. the R-2600-29 has a low blower of 7.06:1 and a high blower of 10:1 with take off power of 1700hp @ 2800RPM and 44.in manifold again, the official data on the R-2600 http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/2c29 2125c34b10558525676d004a8c31/$FILE/ATTFN4QK/5. I take care of a collection of warbirds in Glendale and have the following engines to take care of: R-985, R-1340, R-1820, R-1830-92 and -94, R-2600-35, R-2800, R-3350 in C-45H, AT-6D, T-28C, C-1A, DC-3C, PBY-5A, B-25J, TBM-3E, A-26B, C-119G I am a A&P and a IA, I also have a pilots certificate. |
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