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Model Forum / General / Models / October 2006Bush aircraft markings and PT boats
I'm thinking of doing some sort of diorama relating to some recent Presidents, and their service. You see, it struck me that the conservatives seem to be flyboys, while the liberals have webbed feet. Or (in other words) both Bushes were pilots, while JFK and John Kerry were small-boat Navy types. My challenge is that I would like to use a constant scale for this. I doubt this is workable. Certainly I can pick up 1/48 versions of the F-102 and the Avenger, and I already have the Revell 1/35 Swift boat, but the only PT boat I've seen recently is 1/72. I doubt there are any 1/48 boats out there. I have, therefore, multiple questions. :) First, can anyone direct me to where I can find data regarding markings for the Bush 41 Avenger or the Bush 43 Dagger? Second, does anyone know of an affordable 1/35 PT boat model, so I can at least keep the wet elements in the same scale? Finally, can anyone direct me to actual photos and/or sites relating to Kerry's and Kennedy's boat-markings? In fact, I just realized I don't know whether Dubya even consistently flew a particular craft or not. Hmm... Thanks in advance! P.S. Yes, I know how to use Google :), but that isn't always the most productive method. I thought perhaps some folks here would have specific knowlege to share. P.P.S. Please let's keep the politics out of this thread. I have my own opinions (and votes) about this, but let's focus on the historical and modeling aspect. Please. :) > I'm thinking of doing some sort of diorama relating to some recent > Presidents, and their service. > > You see, it struck me that the conservatives seem to be flyboys, while > the liberals have webbed feet. Or (in other words) both Bushes were > pilots, while JFK and John Kerry were small-boat Navy types. Yeah, but George H.W. Bush was a NAVAL aviator. Thinking back, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and JFK were also Navy-types. Reagan was a soldier, but an actor-soldier that mainly made training films. Kos And Kerry,thank goodness,was never a president. > > I'm thinking of doing some sort of diorama relating to some recent > > Presidents, and their service. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kos "eyeball" <eyeball2002308@aol.com> wrote in message > And Kerry,thank goodness,was never a president. What an odd thing to say. When global warming kills off the human race, the last man alive will wish that Kerry (and Gore) WERE President in the 21st Century. Here is a hazard of a guess. If Gore had been placed in office (he was elected), we would not be in Iraq. 655,000 Iraqis would still be alive. 40,000 GIs would not be crippled for life. North Korea would not have nukes. Jihadists would not be nearly the danger they are now. New Orleans would be rebuilt (or at least a start down that path would be in progress). The US Treasury would not be looted. Maybe, just maybe, we all could afford healthcare in America. And Mr. Bush would not be a candidate for war crime prosecution at The Hague. Denial is a funny thing. No matter how much Bush screws up, there are people (many in the RMS) who would repeat the same blunders, again and again, thinking that the second or third time around things would turn out different; which, as you all know, is the definition of insanity. Go figure. ..../V > "eyeball" <eyeball2002308@aol.com> wrote in message >> And Kerry,thank goodness,was never a president. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > insanity. > Go figure. Trollometer | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | =======>  SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. > "eyeball" <eyeball2002308@aol.com> wrote in message >> And Kerry,thank goodness,was never a president. > > What an odd thing to say. When global warming kills off the human race, > the last man alive will wish that Kerry (and Gore) WERE President in > the 21st Century. Maybe we shou;d start having trials for the Global Warming deniers like the real loons are saying now. Global Warming as caused by man's activity is an absurdist myth meant to frighten the masses into cedeing power to the holy (socialist) few. > Here is a hazard of a guess. If Gore had been placed in office (he was > elected), we would not be in Iraq. 655,000 Iraqis would still be alive. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > we all could afford healthcare in America. And Mr. Bush would not be a > candidate for war crime prosecution at The Hague. I notice you failed to mention September 11. You figure that Osama would have not sent his bombers in because Gore was such a nice guy? And what would he have done, continued the impeccable policy of Bill the Cat? North Korea already had nukes or they were on track because you pantsless hero and hios moronic Secratary of State gave them to him. (That stupid bitch should have been a secretary alright, in a small law firm in Arkansas. And the Jihadist wouldn't hate us even as American society became even more depraved? This is pretty much why your kind CAN NEVER, EVER, EVER be trusted with the Presidency again. You're insane, deluded or stoned. > Denial is a funny thing. No matter how much Bush screws up, there are > people (many in the RMS) who would repeat the same blunders, again and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ..../V Denial is a leftist affliction, pal. Frank >> What an odd thing to say. When global warming kills off the human race, >> the last man alive will wish that Kerry (and Gore) WERE President in >> the 21st Century. ... >> Jihadists would not be nearly the danger they are now. ... >I notice you failed to mention September 11. You figure that Osama would >have not sent his bombers in because Gore was such a nice guy? Obviously, Gore would have grounded all planes (except for Air Force One) and banned all cars (except for Limo One), to end global warming. This would have had the added benefit that hijackings and carbombings could not have happened! And Saddam Hussein, with no "oil for food" money coming in the past 6 years, would now be selling off his stash of beer, cigarettes, velvet paintings and sex tapes for FOOD! Signature-Jack >>> What an odd thing to say. When global warming kills off the human race, >>> the last man alive will wish that Kerry (and Gore) WERE President in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >past 6 years, would now be selling off his stash of beer, >cigarettes, velvet paintings and sex tapes for FOOD! and trying to revive his daughters husband's that he murderd to have them sell bj's at the baths. > "eyeball" <eyeball2002308@aol.com> wrote in message >> And Kerry,thank goodness,was never a president. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > ..../V Things I don't get: Why is it that Clinton got his a.s flipped from the top position because he had something goin on with a (ONE) stagiere. and obviously lied about it. And why is GWB still on as pres (2nd term I may add) for sending thousands of GI's, marines etc into war killing more than a few, after he lied about the situation there. He still lies about the situation there, he lied about the CIA mole, he lied about the CIA prisons. What didn't he lie about, but he's still on as pres. Why do americans put up with that but cannot forgive what Bill did. I don't get that. Cheers, Dennis >> "eyeball" <eyeball2002308@aol.com> wrote in message >>> And Kerry,thank goodness,was never a president. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Dennis It's the vast right wing conspiracy. "Gray Ghost" <ftauss@yahooo.com> wrote in message >>> ..../V >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It's the vast right wing conspiracy. Oh Lord, two peas in a pod - how did you manage that Ghost? WmB " WmB" <HELLinhock@earthlink.net> wrote in news:VteZg.10785$Y24.8003 @newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: > "Gray Ghost" <ftauss@yahooo.com> wrote in message >>>> ..../V [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > WmB Actually I'm member #4473. I've probably endangered my own life for admitting it's existence and it's role in trying to make Clinton look like venal, lieing, immoral trash when of course we all know what a truly remarkable and upstanding man he was. Uh-huh. ;) Frank Well, Dennis, Clinton did serve out his two terms. I can't say I admire what he did whilst in the office (and I mean that literally) but I don't think what he and the country went through over it was justified. I honestly believe it distracted us from taking care of business. I don't think the bluenoses who carried this out did the country any favours. Why is Bush still in office? A Republican party majority holding the government is probably the best answer to that. I could also say that an impeachment of Bush wouldn't remove the problem. It would just succeed to office. I also 'think' that the impending change of power will put a clamp on the current administration but it remains to be seen whether the new Congress will have any more spine than the previous bunch of hypocrites. I actually hope that a Democratic Party takeover won't bog us down in an impeachment process. There are too many real problems that need attention and they needed it yesterday. I'll get off the soapbox now and look for that door to the bunker...... Bill Banaszak There was an interesting article in the Atlantic Monthly either this month or last that suggested that the party that does well in the 2006 elections will be held responsible when the 2008 elections come around. So if the democrats gain majorities, it could backfire because the republicans would blame the democrats in blocking Bush etc. (basically hold democrats accountable for the whole 8 years Bush was in office) According to the article, the party that does well in the 2006 elections will have problems in 2008. So the article cites several leaders of both sides, if I recall correctly, who say a strong showing but *not* winning too many seats is what they really want. This is strange stuff... we'll see what happens!! The article went on to say that undoing the damage that Bush has done will not be as long-lasting as the damage that Nixon had done. But recovering the US image will be an uphill battle (and it's still not pointed UP yet) that will take years to repair. Then MY opinion regariding Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, it's been a fiasco from start to finish. Their lying all along has cost the US umpteen billion dollars and ruined what image the US had in the world. Far worse damage than Clinton lying about an infidelity with an intern. It would be comical, if it were a movie. Unfortunately it's not! --- Stephen > There was an interesting article in the Atlantic Monthly either this > month or last that suggested that the party that does well in the 2006 [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > than Clinton lying about an infidelity with an intern. It would be > comical, if it were a movie. Unfortunately it's not! I tend to agree. The thing that I am hearing is that some "socialistcrats" are looking forward to a majority so they can "get even" for the ill advised Clinton impeachment fiasco by giving the same treatment to G.W. Bush. One can make an argument for Clinton that he would have done better as President if he hadn't been so embroiled with "Monica Gate". The Republicans insistence on an impeachment when they knew up front that there were not going to be the votes in the Senate to convict has always looked to me like the most self defeating stupidity. We, as a country, are suffering because the parties seem more interested in fratricidal infighting then the country's business. "A pox on both their houses" covers my sentiments exactly. Bill Shuey > I tend to agree. The thing that I am hearing is that some > "socialistcrats" are looking forward to a majority so they can "get [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Bill Shuey How about this, Bill? This about cover it properly? "I hate & despise Republicans. In fact, the only thing I hate worse than a Republican, is a Democrat." -Kevin in Indy > How about this, Bill? This about cover it properly? > > "I hate & despise Republicans. In fact, the only thing I hate > worse than a Republican, is a Democrat." > > -Kevin in Indy Right now that about describes my feelings exactly. Bill Shuey > > How about this, Bill? This about cover it properly? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Bill Shuey A friend of mine who is a D.O.D. employee has this to say: "Regardless of party affiliation, everyone employed inside the (Washington) Beltway is linked by one basic philosophical imperative, total contempt for the American taxpayer"! Bill Shuey > A friend of mine who is a D.O.D. employee has this to say: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Bill Shuey Sadly, I don't think many of us disbelieve that. Those that do, especially should not. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. >"eyeball" <eyeball2002308@aol.com> wrote in message >> And Kerry,thank goodness,was never a president. > >What an odd thing to say. When global warming kills off the human race, the >last man alive will wish that Kerry (and Gore) WERE President in the 21st >Century. Hmmmm.... Then why is it already snowing on the east coast? >Here is a hazard of a guess. If Gore had been placed in office (he was >elected), we would not be in Iraq. 655,000 Iraqis would still be alive. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >healthcare in America. And Mr. Bush would not be a candidate for war crime >prosecution at The Hague. More like the soup lines would be growing. Sadam would still be killing his people. Gore would be getting more donations from the monks. New Orleans would be under water due to global warming. And you would still be the dancing yapping monkey for the organ grinding liberals. >Denial is a funny thing. No matter how much Bush screws up, there are people >(many in the RMS) who would repeat the same blunders, again and again, >thinking that the second or third time around things would turn out >different; which, as you all know, is the definition of insanity. It's a damn shame that we are not as perfect as you. >Go figure. No need, your inane fantasy explains it all. >..../V "Kos" <d2kos@comcast.net> wrote in message > Reagan was a soldier, > but an actor-soldier that mainly made training films. > > Kos Reagan was a reserve cavalry officer from 1935. He reputedly cheated on his eye exam to get in. I'll let you guys hash it out how much less of a soldier he was as a near sighted reserve officer compared to the likes of Rambo Kerry - but dems da facts. WmB Don't forget ..... Eisenhower was Army, Grant was Army, Roosevelt was Army, Washington was Army, Lincoln was Militia, Jackson was Army, Houston was Texas Army, Bush (W.) was AWOL. ..../V >> I'm thinking of doing some sort of diorama relating to some recent >> Presidents, and their service. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kos > Don't forget ..... Eisenhower was Army, Grant was Army, Roosevelt was Army, > Washington was Army, Lincoln was Militia, Jackson was Army, Houston was > Texas Army, Bush (W.) was AWOL. And yet you can show no definitive proof of this..... Dosnt stop ya from tryin tho..... SignatureAM http://sctuser.home.comcast.net CentOS 4.3 KDE 3.3 > Don't forget ..... Eisenhower was Army, Grant was Army, Roosevelt was > Army, Washington was Army, Lincoln was Militia, Jackson was Army, > Houston was Texas Army, Bush (W.) was AWOL. > > ..../V Are you auditioing for Dan Rather's bed in the asylum? > Don't forget ..... Eisenhower was Army, Grant was Army, Roosevelt was Army, > Washington was Army, Lincoln was Militia, Jackson was Army, Houston was > Texas Army, Bush (W.) was AWOL. > > ..../V Besides Grant...the next four or five after him, were also ex-Union Army officers. Funny...Mr. Irvine credits Mr. Lincoln's "militia" service, but still goose-steps to the Liberal song-and-dance that Mr. Bush was AWOL...when his time spent in the "militia" (ANG) was *way* longer than Mr. Lincoln's... SignatureGreg Heilers Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13) AUS ..... He gets it from your side of the family, you know. No monsters on my side. -- Homer Simpson Treehouse of Horror II > Yeah, but George H.W. Bush was a NAVAL aviator. Thinking back, Carter, > Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and JFK were also Navy-types. Reagan was a soldier, > but an actor-soldier that mainly made training films. A remarkable run. When you look at the past, Army service was a common line of the cv of presidents--not so the Navy. Then from 1960 to 1980, nothing but ex-Navy in the White House. > > Yeah, but George H.W. Bush was a NAVAL aviator. Thinking back, Carter, > > Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and JFK were also Navy-types. Reagan was a soldier, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > line of the cv of presidents--not so the Navy. Then from 1960 to 1980, > nothing but ex-Navy in the White House. Considering how badly things have gone, that's not a good light on the Navy. Gotta be an aberration. Really, when you think about it, there wasn't much of a navy prior to TR becoming president. We had some ships but funding was irregular - only when we needed to spend some money for defence. I don't think the famous names in the USN wanted to be president and have to give up being at sea. JMHO. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. I think Carter's boat was probably fairly large. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > I think Carter's boat was probably fairly large. > > Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > Two old converted battleships serving as laboratory ships; USS Wyoming, E-AG 17 (Formerly BB-23), and USS Mississippi, E-AG 128 (formerly BB-41). Also, the submarine USS Pomfret, SS 391, from December 1948 to Feb 1951. Thereafter shore duty until discharge Oct 1953. (from http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-14.htm ) SignatureBill in Hamptonburgh, NY To email, delete the double zeroes after @ > I'm thinking of doing some sort of diorama relating to some recent > Presidents, and their service. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > own opinions (and votes) about this, but let's focus on the historical > and modeling aspect. Please. :) Bush's Avenger has been released by Accurate Miniatures: http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=AJ480120 Revell had released the 1/48 scale Swift Patrol Boat with John Kerry's markings a few years ago when he was in the running for president. Once upon a time, Lindberg did two different PT boats. One in 1/64(?) scale and the other in 1/32 scale. I have the remains of the 1/32 scale boat that I never quite finished lying around. You could make the point that Ford's duty on a fast carrier was the most significant service of the Navy Presidents--responsibility for keeping a major unit on the battleline. "Applying for sea duty, Ford was sent in May 1943 to the pre-commissioning detachment for a new small aircraft carrier, the USS Monterey, at New York Shipbuilding Corporation, Camden, New Jersey. >From the ship's commissioning on 17 June 1943 until the end of December 1944, Ford served as the assistant navigator, Athletic Officer, and antiaircraft battery officer on board the Monterey. While he was on board, the Monterey participated in many actions in the Pacific with the Third and Fifth Fleets during the fall of 1943 and in 1944. In 1943, the carrier helped secure Makin Island in the Gilberts, and participated in carrier strikes against Kavieng, New Ireland in 1943. During the spring of 1944, the Monterey supported landings at Kwajalein and Eniwetok and participated in carrier strikes in the Marianas, Western Carolines, and northern New Guinea, as well as in the Battle of Philippine Sea. After overhaul, from September to November 1944, aircraft from the Monterey launched strikes against Wake Island, participated in strikes in the Philippines and Ryukus, and supported the landings at Leyte and Mindoro. Although the ship was not damaged by the Japanese forces, the Monterey was one of several ships damaged by the typhoon which hit Admiral William Halsey's Third Fleet on 18-19 December 1944. The Third Fleet lost three destroyers and over 800 men during the typhoon. The Monterey was damaged by a fire, which was started by several of the ship's aircraft tearing loose from their cables and colliding during the storm. During the storm, Ford narrowly missed being a casualty himself. After Ford left his battle station on the bridge of the ship in the early morning of 18 December, the ship rolled twenty-five degrees which caused Ford to lose his footing and slide toward the edge of the deck. The two inch steel ridge around the edge of the carrier slowed him enough so he could roll and twisted into the catwalk below the deck. As he later stated, "I was lucky; I could have easily gone overboard." After the fire, the Monterey was declared unfit for service and the crippled carrier reached Ulithi on 21 December before proceding across the Pacific to Bremerton, Washington where it underwent repairs. On Christmas Eve 1944 at Ulithi, Ford was detached from the ship and sent to the Athletic Department of the Navy Pre-Flight School, at Saint Mary's College of California where he was assigned to the Athletic Department until April 1945. One of his duties was to coach football. >From end of April 1945 to January 1946, he was on the staff of the Naval Reserve Training Command, Naval Air Station, Glenview, Illinois as the Staff Physical and Military Training Officer. On 3 October 1945, he was promoted to Lieutenant Commander. In January 1946, he was sent to the Separation Center, Great Lakes, Illinois to be processed out. He was released from active duty under honorable conditions on 23 February 1946. On 28 June 1963, the Secretary of the Navy accepted Ford's resignation from the Naval Reserve. For his naval service, Gerald Ford earned the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with nine engagement stars for operations in the Gilbert Islands, Bismark Archipelego, Marshal Islands, Asiatic and Pacific carrier raids, Hollandia, Marianas, Western Carolines, Western New Guinea, and the Leyte Operation. He also received the Philippine Liberation with two bronze stars for Leyte and Mindoro, as well as the American Campaign and World War II Victory Medals." |
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