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home made decals: inkjet or laser printer?

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Pietro - 02 Dec 2006 22:32 GMT
Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
 I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
two, is it true? I've some modelling projects that needs custom decals,
can you suggest me what to do? (excuse me for my english, I'm italian)
Pietro
patrick antoni - 03 Dec 2006 02:42 GMT
Never mind your English, Pietro, it's fine, trust me, I'm a doctor ! I've
been asking the same Q myself, since I've got both of them at hand.
Curious what advice we will get !

best regards,

Trikke
> Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
> I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
> two, is it true? I've some modelling projects that needs custom decals,
> can you suggest me what to do? (excuse me for my english, I'm italian)
> Pietro
Brian B Chin - 03 Dec 2006 06:34 GMT
inkjet decals fade after several months, no printer decals can print white,
light colors are not opaque. You should make your own silkscreen decals.
kim - 04 Dec 2006 03:03 GMT
> inkjet decals fade after several months, no printer decals can print white,
> light colors are not opaque. You should make your own silkscreen decals.

If you're making your own silk screens why not print directly onto the
model?

(kim)
john@thornton3966.freeserve.co.uk - 03 Dec 2006 16:15 GMT
> Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
>   I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
> two, is it true? I've some modelling projects that needs custom decals,
> can you suggest me what to do? (excuse me for my english, I'm italian)
> Pietro

Inkjet colours are not completely light-fast and will eventually fade -
how quickly will depend upon the brand of ink. I have no idea about
laser printers, as I do not own one.

I have tried printing my own decals on inkjet-compatible decal film
with only limited success. The results are too transparent to use when
applied to surfaces that are anything other than white or silver. I now
use aftermarket codes and markings for my aircraft and print only the
serials myself (black print is okay when applied to any colour surface).
Claus Gustafsen - 03 Dec 2006 16:37 GMT
I have tried some Bubblejet decals, and they are still fine after two years,
but the model is not in the sun either. Most vere dark colour on light
background. Main problem is they need several thin layers of clear in order
to survive the water to set them on the model.
Some problems could be solved with the white by using a white film as
baskground or to print on. But my guess is that laser printed decals are
easier as they can stand the water without the clear. Also the opasity may
be better.

Signature

Claus Gustafsen
Strandby Denmark
mail me at claus@gustafsen.nu
See my modeling at www.gustafsen.nu

>> Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
>>   I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> use aftermarket codes and markings for my aircraft and print only the
> serials myself (black print is okay when applied to any colour surface).

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kim - 04 Dec 2006 03:06 GMT
> > Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
> >   I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> use aftermarket codes and markings for my aircraft and print only the
> serials myself (black print is okay when applied to any colour surface).

You could do what I do and buy the decals first, then find a model to match
them :o)

(kim)
T B - 03 Dec 2006 17:01 GMT
> Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
> I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
> two, is it true? I've some modelling projects that needs custom decals,
> can you suggest me what to do? (excuse me for my english, I'm italian)
> Pietro

Neither option is really a 100% successful alternative to professionally
printed decals.

The problem with inkjet printing is that it will fade after a year or two.
Also, many types of "inkjet decal paper" will have issues with the ink
"pooling" into tiny dots on large solid images after it's printed despite
the manufacturer's claim of the paper being fully inkjet compatible.

Laserjet is a bit better but the printing tends to easily "crack" or flake
off the paper even when a coat or two of some kind of sealant is sprayed on
the paper,  especially during decal application to a part. This is
especially a problem when applying a decal to a curved surface. Also, colors
aren't quite as vibrant as the better inkjet printers.

My experience with both methods has been using a HP Color Laserjet 2500N and
a Epson Photo Stylus 200.

Interestingly, the old low cost ALPs rudimentary dye-sub printers often
produced the best overall results but those kind of printers are no longer
produced by ALPs.

T.B.
Al Superczynski - 03 Dec 2006 23:35 GMT
I have a good supply of Alps cartridges and working Alps printers
and hope to keep at least one in service for many years yet.  

    I'll do custom printing from printer-ready vector artwork or
high-resolution _monotone_ bitmaps, or will redraw high-resolution
scans as vector art.  The former isn't too expensive but the latter
can be substantially higher depending on how much time I have to put
into them.  Contact me at the email address below if interested.
Signature

Al Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968

My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email.

Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place":
http://home.swbell.net/arfunguy/index.html
"Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to,
and the critics will flame you every time."

Don Stauffer in Minnesota - 03 Dec 2006 18:16 GMT
> Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
>   I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
> two, is it true? I've some modelling projects that needs custom decals,
> can you suggest me what to do? (excuse me for my english, I'm italian)
> Pietro

There is a third option, which I use.  I have a black and white laser,
which I use for black decals.  But I have never been satisified with
the quality of inkjet papers for printouts from my color inkjet.  I
have tried various papers, various treatments, but I always end up with
a slightly mottled or crazed appearance to them when I print on them
with my inkjet printer.

So what I do for color decals is to print out on regular bond paper
with my inkjet, and take the printout and the decal paper (regular
laser/copier decal paper) to my local Kinkos to run in their copy
machine.  I really like the stuff I get from Micro Mark, and it even
says laser/copier on the back, which may be why my local Kinkos has
been willing to use this stuff in their machines.  I understand some
Kinkos will not.  You may have to look around to find one that will.

Color laser printers continue to drop in price, and I am sure in a year
or two I will get a color laser printer just to be able to print decals.
Rob de Bie - 05 Dec 2006 13:49 GMT
>Inkjet or laser printer? which is the better choice for printing decals?
>  I've read that colours on inkjit printed decals fade after one year or
>two, is it true? I've some modelling projects that needs custom decals,
>can you suggest me what to do? (excuse me for my english, I'm italian)
>Pietro

My advice: don't buy a printer, but let someone else print your decal
designs on an Alps or OKI printer. You get excellent quality fade-proof
decals for reasonable cost. I have a page about the subject:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/models/decals.htm

I guess it can be intimidating, but the rewards are good! At the end of the
page you will find a list of custom printers. In Italy you have Luca Beato
who can print decals for you.

Rob

My models:    www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/models.htm
Me 163B site: www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/me163.htm
AQM-34 site:  www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/aqm34.htm
Pietro - 05 Dec 2006 22:07 GMT
Rob de Bie ha scritto:
 > My advice: don't buy a printer, but let someone else print your decal
> designs on an Alps or OKI printer. You get excellent quality fade-proof
> decals for reasonable cost. I have a page about the subject:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Rob

Thank you Rob and all the modellers who helped me to understand that
only old Alps printer or better silkscreen printing produce good quality
decals, so I will not waste my monet buying a laser printer as I was
going to do.
I know that in Italy Luca Beato can print decals with Alps printers; I
sent him several e-mails on the last two or three years but he NEVER
would reply one!
I wonder if Alps/Oki printers will be avaliable one more time...I live
in Sicily and we use to say "manna, cumanna e vacci tu" that if literaly
translated (I hope!) sonds like: send someone (to do something), order
to someone and make it by yourself!
Pietro
Gordon McLaughlin - 05 Dec 2006 22:24 GMT
Pietro,

You might have more luck in contacting Luca Beato via the Wings of Peace
Yahoo group.

Gordon McLaughlin

> Rob de Bie ha scritto:
>  > My advice: don't buy a printer, but let someone else print your decal
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> someone and make it by yourself!
> Pietro
Rufus - 05 Dec 2006 22:59 GMT
> Rob de Bie ha scritto:
>  > My advice: don't buy a printer, but let someone else print your decal
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> to someone and make it by yourself!
> Pietro

I have heard that the Okidata printers are available outside of the USA,
so you may want to look for them on the Continent.

There also seem to be many ALPS MD printers available on Ebay, if you
watch for and choose the right one.

ALPS printing supplies (carts) appear to still be available and not hard
to find, so either these are still in service at enough locations,
and/or are still available to the fortunate few.

Signature

     - Rufus

Rob de Bie - 06 Dec 2006 11:20 GMT
>Thank you Rob and all the modellers who helped me to understand that
>only old Alps printer or better silkscreen printing produce good quality
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>sent him several e-mails on the last two or three years but he NEVER
>would reply one!

The page shows 30 more custom printers, so you have plenty of alternatives!

>I wonder if Alps/Oki printers will be avaliable one more time...I live
>in Sicily and we use to say "manna, cumanna e vacci tu" that if literaly
>translated (I hope!) sonds like: send someone (to do something), order
>to someone and make it by yourself!

You can probably still buy the equivalent OKI DP-5000 in Europe, although they
are no longer exported to Europe I believe. HCR and Hofax used to sell them
until recently:

http://www.hcrhamburg.de
http://hofax.com/

But search around, locate the Italian importer, you may find one.

If you have serious plans to buy one, subscribe to the Alps and Alpsdecal
mailing lists!! The messages will give you a good idea of the various problems
you will have running the printer. This is one difficult printer! But the
results can be excellent.

I chose not to buy one (had several opportunities) and instead I let others
print my artwork. It's FAR more economical for my limited decal plans.

Rob

My models:    www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/models.htm
Me 163B site: www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/me163.htm
AQM-34 site:  www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/aqm34.htm
Frank Henriquez - 13 Dec 2006 21:28 GMT
I've used inkjet, ALPS and laser printers to make decals. The ALPS
decals win, simply because the printer can print white and metallic
colors and it can realign the paper accurately, allowing for well
registered overprinting.

That said, it's not hard to see why ALPS got out of the printer market -
the driver and the printer itself are not very good.

Inkjet decals will fade, the inks are translucent and the inkjet decal
films are thicker and harder to use than decal paper for laser and ALPS
printers (like the excellent paper sold by Tango Papa).

Laser printers can make fairly opaque decals, with some effort, but you
still can't print in white.

There's one promising method that allows you to make white decals on
laser printers called DecalPro:

http://www.pulsar.gs/DecalPRO/Vertical/1_MENU/1b_Overview/Overview.html

It requires a color laser printer for color decals and it's a bit more
involved than the other methods, but at least you're not stuck with an
obsolete printer and dwindling supplies. You could also use the
materials and method to make photoetched parts and printed circuit
boards.

Frank

Signature

Frank Henriquez  Programmer/Analyst  Jules Stein Eye Institute, UCLA
frank@ucla.edu   http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~frank/index.htm

Stewart Schooley - 13 Dec 2006 23:08 GMT
> I've used inkjet, ALPS and laser printers to make decals. The ALPS
> decals win, simply because the printer can print white and metallic
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Frank

Frank,

First of all, anyone who checks out the DecalPro site should be sure to
watch the video so they fully understand the process.

I ordered the transfer paper and have been doing some experimenting as
time allows. This paper is not the ordinary decal paper most people are
familiar with. This paper has no film on it. It is coated with dextrin
which is a starch that easily washes off.

Since the three copy centers near me refuse to run any decal paper
through their copiers, my first experiments were done using permanent
ink markers. So far I've done this;

1- After marking the DealPro paper, I put a piece of 2u mylar over it
and used an iron with as much pressure as I could press on it. The iron
was hot, but not all the way to the highest heat. Then I soaked the
paper and the mylar came off. The markings transferred to the mylar. The
transfer on the mylar was a little bit weaker, but not by much.

2 - I made a decal and this might be of interest to those who like to
experiment. After marking the DecalPro paper, I gave it three coats of
Future with about 30 minutes drying time between coats. Then I soaked it
and slid the Future decal off onto a piece of dry paper. The dry paper
kept me from seeing if I could re-position the decal. Next I will try
this method using Minwax's Polycrylic. I mentioned Polycrylic in my Nov.
15 post titled DIY Future Decals.

I'll scan my test and put it on the photo binary page.

Stewart
Frank Henriquez - 18 Dec 2006 19:25 GMT
> 1- After marking the DealPro paper, I put a piece of 2u mylar over it
> and used an iron with as much pressure as I could press on it. The iron
> was hot, but not all the way to the highest heat. Then I soaked the
> paper and the mylar came off. The markings transferred to the mylar. The
> transfer on the mylar was a little bit weaker, but not by much.

I've used various toner transfer methods to make printed circuit boards
and photoetched parts for years (close to 20!).

For most of that time, I used an iron. An iron will do an adequate job
of transfering the artwork, but the level of frustration and the low
yields (poor/incomplete transfers) are just not worth it.

Buy a laminator! It really makes all the difference in the results. Not
only is the heat and pressure far more consistent and even than with an
iron, it only takes a few seconds to make the transfer.

The 9" laminator that Pulsar is adequate for decals, but the next model
up (around $100 at Staples) will work even better, since it gets hotter
than the 9" and works great if you ever want to make photoetched brass
parts.

Either laminator will be an improvement over an iron.

Frank

Signature

Frank Henriquez  Programmer/Analyst  Jules Stein Eye Institute, UCLA
frank@ucla.edu   http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/index.htm

 
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