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Model Forum / General / Models / August 2007Poor quality books
I realize that military/aviation history books are expensive because of a limited market. However, if we have to pay that much for a book, at least to me it should be of good quality. I am re-reading one of my aviation history books by a popular publisher of such books (I will not name names because they are not the only one to have such quality problems). It was the most expensive book I have ever bought. But I had forgot how irritating it is to read because of all the grammatical and spelling errors. I'd estimate there are typically three to four such errors per page. Now, maybe aviation historians are not the best spellers, or grammarians. But that is what the publishers have editors for, isn't it? This book on the history of a certain aircraft engine is so bad because of the grammar and spelling that it really ticks me off. The book is accurate, full of detail, but the poor English really makes reading it less pleasurable than it should be. Am I the only one concerned about this, or do others share my concern? Please, publishers, do some editing. And computer spelling programs are not enough. One passage refers to the "carburetor are intake." Both air and are are legit English words, so a spelling checker would miss that. But a decent editor should catch that immediately, because it really brings the reader up short! As I say, it is not just the spelling, but also the grammar.- so many incomplete sentences and improperly compounded ones. > I realize that military/aviation history books are expensive because > of a limited market. However, if we have to pay that much for a book, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > editors for, isn't it? > Was the book a translation from another language? Some of Schiffer's translations from German into English can be pretty strange. I've seen Japanese and Chinese translated into English so poorly as to be barely comprehensible.* It might also be a fairly small boutique publisher; they tend to have a lot of trouble with proofreading. Just watching the spelling mistakes on MSNBC's computer news outlet for a week can make one laugh and cringe simultaneously. Reading comprehension is in a sad decline, and writing in a competent manner appears to be going the way of the dodo, even at multi-billion dollar media outlets. *Remember those Bandai 1/48th scale tank instruction sheets? "Allies were terrified in horror of Tiger and Panther tank made then by crazy Hitler." "Pfooma armored car had 75 mm large cannon in one type make." Pat My first thoughts were either Schiffer or Squadron/Signal! There are others, but these 2 are the most comon in my library. > > I realize that military/aviation history books are expensive because > > of a limited market. However, if we have to pay that much for a book, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Hitler." "Pfooma armored car had 75 mm large cannon in one type make." > Pat > My first thoughts were either Schiffer or Squadron/Signal! There > are others, but these 2 are the most comon in my library. Both tend to go with exactly what the author sends in and assume he has done the proofreading. And it makes all of them look bad! > > My first thoughts were either Schiffer or Squadron/Signal! There > > are others, but these 2 are the most comon in my library. > > Both tend to go with exactly what the author sends in and assume he has > done the proofreading. > My first thoughts were either Schiffer or Squadron/Signal! There > are others, but these 2 are the most comon in my library. > Schiffer at least got a little better over the years, and probably wouldn't call the V-2's combustion chamber a "furnace" if translating the book nowadays. It was either a Hasegawa or Tamiya kit that had the insert in it saying something like "Building models is good for the child, moving fingers will make his brain grow." Here's a meeting of the Metaluna IPMS: http://www.monsters411.com/This_Island_Earth.jpg ...all who have been building models since childhood. :-) Pat No, it was not a translation- the author is American, English speaking. And not a boutique or self-published book, but one of the major publisher's of such books. > Was the book a translation from another language? Some of Schiffer's > translations from German into English can be pretty strange. I've seen [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > manner appears to be going the way of the dodo, even at multi-billion > dollar media outlets. > Pat > No, it was not a translation- the author is American, English > speaking. And not a boutique or self-published book, but one of the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> manner appears to be going the way of the dodo, even at multi-billion >> dollar media outlets. I've seen other publications with rampant errors like this. In those cases on particular publication had outsourced it's printing to a non-english (or limited english) speaking country. As a result the 'typsetters' and printers caused of most of the grammatical errors (and a few exceptional layout mistakes). They didn't care or understand the language enough to do the job properly. I noted that this publication eventually moved back to using an in-country printhouse. Perhaps this is the case with the publications you have issues with. I'd check where and who did the printing.  SignatureThe Raven http://www.80snostalgia.com/downloads/batfink/sounds/wings.mp3 >> No, it was not a translation- the author is American, English >> speaking. And not a boutique or self-published book, but one of the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Perhaps this is the case with the publications you have issues with. I'd > check where and who did the printing. GAH! I see this sort of thing everywhere, in publishing of all sorts. As a writer myself, and also as someone who has done editing, proofreading and layout on at least a small scale in the past, it makes my skin crawl. It doesn't matter whether the error is on some banner on the daily newscast, in an article in the paper or a major magazine, or in a book (fiction or nonfiction) from whatever publisher - and yes, the major ones are as guilty as anyone - stupid errors are rampant these days. The irony in all of this? If any one of these companies wanted to hire me to catch and correct these things, their material would outshine everyone else's by a large factor. Not only that, but I'd have full-time work from now until whenever I decided to retire, since it appears certain that the quality and abilities of graduates from the various journalism, English, and whatever other programs tend to churn out people who think they can write is in free-fall. But they don't appear to be hiring anyone in that capacity, and if they do, they care more about diplomas than about ability, when it clear that a diploma isn't a guarantee of much of anything when it comes to writing and editing. Rant over. Hey, how did I wind up on this soapbox? ;-) SignatureRemove dotty rant to reply. Have you ever felt like your patron saint is a man named Murphy? -=-=- ... The peasants are revolting! And they're pissed off, too. * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org when it clear that a diploma isn't a > guarantee of much of anything when it comes to writing and editing. > > Rant over. Hey, how did I wind up on this soapbox? ;-) And speaking of irony, there I go missing an apostrophe and "s" in my rant above. Correct to "when IT'S clear that a diploma"... See what getting all hot under the collar over something will do? ;-) SignatureRemove dotty rant to reply. Have you ever felt like your patron saint is a man named Murphy? -=-=- ... * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org At least you seem to know how to properly use an apostrophe. That's got to be one of the more confusing thing for some folks. OTOH, an honest typo is one thing, lack of knowledge is another. On Aug 3, 10:28 am, Summer Storms <summerbythelakes...@gRANTmailDOT.com> wrote: > when it clear that a diploma isn't a> guarantee of much of anything when it comes to writing and editing. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > ... > * TagZilla 0.066 *http://tagzilla.mozdev.org > GAH! I see this sort of thing everywhere, in publishing of all > sorts. As a writer myself, and also as someone who has done editing, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Rant over. Hey, how did I wind up on this soapbox? ;-) I agree with you, and feel the same way! SignatureBOFH excuse #424: operation failed because: there is no message for this error (#1014) Watch that mis-used apostrophe, Don! :) On Aug 2, 4:08 pm, Don Stauffer in Minnesota <stauf...@usfamily.net> wrote: > No, it was not a translation- the author is American, English > speaking. And not a boutique or self-published book, but one of the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > it should be of good quality My other beef is poor drawings. If the publisher is going to use drawings to illustrate the text they should take the effort to get it accurate in color and in detail. The cost of printing a bad illustration is the same as printing a good one. >>it should be of good quality > > My other beef is poor drawings. If the publisher is going to use > drawings to illustrate the text they should take the effort to get it > accurate in color and in detail. The cost of printing a bad > illustration is the same as printing a good one. One of mine is poor quality digital still pictures - shot in the wrong resolution for the intended print size. If you're gonna use digital for your presswork, take some time to know how it works. Signature- Rufus > One of mine is poor quality digital still pictures - shot in the wrong > resolution for the intended print size. If you're gonna use digital for > your presswork, take some time to know how it works. Some publishers are known to grab images from the web because they're "free" and give a rat's a.s about the fact they are usually 72dpi. You need 300 dpi or better for decent publication. >> One of mine is poor quality digital still pictures - shot in the wrong >> resolution for the intended print size. If you're gonna use digital for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "free" and give a rat's a.s about the fact they are usually 72dpi. You > need 300 dpi or better for decent publication. I recall a local 'author' doing this some time ago. Wrote an entire book based on images stolen from the web (and certain individuals websites). A lot of textual information was also borrowed and poorly rewritten in an attempt to avoid plagarism. Unfortunately, he also copied some incorrect information and forgot to proof read all of the stolen material....which in several instances contained information identifying the original web-author from whom it was stolen. Few bought the book as a result, the poor quality and circumstances around it's 'authoring' being widely known. I think that author has a garage with boxes of this book he can't sell.... > >> One of mine is poor quality digital still pictures - shot in the wrong > >> resolution for the intended print size. If you're gonna use digital for [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > it's 'authoring' being widely known. I think that author has a garage with > boxes of this book he can't sell.... As a wanabee author (I have done a lot of pubs for model mags, but want to break into full-size aviation history), I have had a lot of other authors telling me to not worry about copyrights- they don't. I find that a strange attitude for a writer who wants his OWN stuff copyright. For model articles I take my own pictures. But for aviation history- gee, few of the aircraft are still around, and many museums that DO have them want an arm and a leg for permission to print pics taken in their museum. I have no trouble getting the facts I need, but the illustrations/pics are something else. At least AF claims all AF photos on their web site are public domain so I can use stuff for there. Will be submitting an article to AH using their photos. > At least AF claims all AF photos on their web site are public domain > so I can use stuff for there. Will be submitting an article to AH > using their photos. NARA A tale of caution... I used to write the history notes for a certain Czech model company's kits. They would be sent to a friend in Prague who would then translate them into Czech. On more than one occasion, the manufacturers then "lost" my original English text and got one of their folks to re-translate the Czech back into "English"... I found it quite amusing - until I started to get some flak for my poor command of my own language! Fortunately, I've kept all my original texts. They do their own stuff now... Which accounts for a lot! In many cases, what we find in E European books is a lack of the current English vernacular and idiom, with literal translations from the native idiom, not all of which work! However, I've also come across some howlers in books written by Brits! In one book, on a famous Allied WW2 tank, there's a picture of an SP gun variant. The source correctly identifies it as what it is, but the writer states the source has misidentified the SP gun and calls it something else! If he'd known his subject material, he'd have realised that the source caption was, in fact, correct. In this case, I was so annoyed at the number of errors, almost one on every page, that I contacted the publishers. They weren't at all bothered! Ah well, I'd of done it proper, innit? The latest FSM special issue "How to Paint & Weather Scale Models" has an article that is so poorly written that it couldn't possibly have been proofread. Spelling, punctuation & just plain wrong words are prevalent throughout the article. I could barely read it. I expect, at a minimum, basic literacy from a national magazine. SignatureDale G Elhardt Cypress Ca "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=7702 > The latest FSM special issue "How to Paint & Weather Scale Models" has > an article that is so poorly written that it couldn't possibly have been [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an > incredible miracle."http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=7702 By far the best (worst?) translation appeared on the boxes used for the Nitto 1/76 scale vehicle dioramas back in the late '60s. Even at that time the treatment give to the Japanese people via WWII propoganda had become a symbol of racism. Nitto certainly didn't help with their boxes titles "Diolamas"! I always thought that they should have done a scene containing a male goat, a baby sheep and a bell, creating a Ram a Lamb a Ding Dong Diolama! Sorry about that. Tom : By far the best (worst?) translation appeared on the boxes used for : the Nitto 1/76 scale vehicle dioramas back in the late '60s. Have you read some of the "English" on the side of the Trumpeter KV series? "Quick fried tower"? "backstroke of war"? Hilarity. Of course, my Mandarin and Cantonese is likely to be worse... Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes Bruce Burden wrote:: > Have you read some of the "English" on the side of the > Trumpeter KV series? "Quick fried tower"? "backstroke of war"? > Hilarity. Of course, my Mandarin and Cantonese is likely to > be worse... > > I can't understand why, once they get it to that point in translation, they just don't let someone who has English as their first language look at it and polish it up. They wouldn't need to understand Mandarin or Cantonese, just plain English. Pat > Bruce Burden wrote:: >> Have you read some of the "English" on the side of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > look at it and polish it up. They wouldn't need to understand Mandarin > or Cantonese, just plain English. Simple: On time, within budget, within specs: pick two of three. SignatureBOFH excuse #377: Someone hooked the twisted pair wires into the answering machine. > > Bruce Burden wrote:: > >> Have you read some of the "English" on the side of the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Someone hooked the twisted pair wires into the answering machine. Back in 1985 I got together with two friends in France and published Encyclopedia des Maquettes 1/72. There were a couple of caption errors, but the extensive listings were quite close to being free of errors. Of course the listings were out of date before the book came out, but the tons of color has kept the book in demand ever since. The listings proved to be a good historical footnote on the 1/72 scene in 1985. In 1988 Airlife in the UK and TAB in the US picked up the title as Encyclopedia of Military Models 1/72 and published new editons (I still have a few copies of the TAB editon available). Neither felt that correcting the messed up captions were worth the effort, not a big problem. TAB, however, managed to leave out a huge section of the vehicle listings, forcing them to publish inserts at great expense, the cost of which somehow came from our meager cut. The last edition in Italy corrected the ommision. I was quite embarassed that it took the American publisher to muck things up. The next book (covering WWI IN 1/72 scale) shall be either self-published or be monitored very closely. Tom > Back in 1985 I got together with two friends in France and published > Encyclopedia des Maquettes 1/72. There were a couple of caption [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > listings proved to be a good historical footnote on the 1/72 scene in > 1985. Wow, that is impressive. I am embarassed to say I have never heard of this, or of the English editions you mention below. > In 1988 Airlife in the UK and TAB in the US picked up the title as > Encyclopedia of Military Models 1/72 and published new editons (I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > things up. The next book (covering WWI IN 1/72 scale) shall be either > self-published or be monitored very closely. I publish papers as part of my research, and do virtually all my other documents as well in the same typesetting program: TeX (mostly its various macro packages, such as LaTeX, XeTeX, pdfTeX, pTeX and so on). After spending almost 8 years discovering how it all works, especially how the text and lines of absolutely all figures can be directly controlled by the program, while the bitmap portions (color) of images are left to whatever program did those, I am completely sold on the idea of self-publishing. When I submit manuscripts, I ask that I have control over the final details, which include of course page breaks and whatever rewording is required to make all lines appear properly justified. In any case, there's no way I'd get what I want for reasonable cost from a publisher. If you need any input, I'm very happy to provide it. Cheers, Gernot SignatureBOFH excuse #360: Your parity check is overdrawn and you're out of cache. > >> Back in 1985 I got together with two friends in France and published [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Wow, that is impressive. I am embarassed to say I have never heard of > this, or of the English editions you mention below. I've heard of it; it was a fairly famous book in modeling circles at the time. Pat > > "maies...@netscape.com" <maies...@netscape.com> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - Show quoted text - American edition still available in very small quantties. Original price for the hardcover was $28.95. I'm selling them for $15 plus postage. Address: Tom Young 38 Prince Royal Passage Corte Madera, California 94925 Tom >> > "maies...@netscape.com" <maies...@netscape.com> writes: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Tom shameless plug for tom: buy the f.cker! it's good. > In article <1186263370.690111.159550@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, > "maiesm72@netscape.com" <maiesm72@netscape.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > shameless plug for tom: > buy the f.cker! it's good. Any body read Tamiya Modelling Magazine? I always find a lot of typo's in there. It is for the quality if the rest of the mag, otherwise it would have been a turn off form me. Cheers, Bert-Jan >Any body read Tamiya Modelling Magazine? >I always find a lot of typo's in there. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Bert-Jan At this stage of the hobby (50 years in it) I just look at the photos to see if there are any details I might find useful. I don't read the articles or the ads. > The latest FSM special issue "How to Paint & Weather Scale Models" has > an article that is so poorly written that it couldn't possibly have been > proofread. Spelling, punctuation & just plain wrong words are prevalent > throughout the article. I could barely read it. I expect, at a minimum, > basic literacy from a national magazine. ...I had the same complaints about the IPMS/USA Journal when I discontinued my membership. Seems to have cleaned up a bit now, though I'm not an avid reader of it. Signature- Rufus On Aug 2, 3:20 am, Don Stauffer in Minnesota <stauf...@usfamily.net> wrote: > This book on the history of a certain aircraft engine is so bad > because of the grammar and spelling that it really ticks me off. The > book is accurate, full of detail, but the poor English really makes > reading it less pleasurable than it should be. Am I the only one > concerned about this, or do others share my concern? Have you expressed your concern to the publisher directly, or are you just shouting into the wind? You have a very valid complaint, but you're not expressing it in a very useful fashion. Bruce Melbourne, Australia I have filled out & mailed in Schiffer's little comment cards & mailed them & Squadron doesn't seem to care to correct mistakes pointed out in their catalogs or online, so I imagine they don't care about the books either. I have one book, I don't recall the title, but IIRC, it's about aircraft at Chino, Ca. Photo captions incorerectly identify types but one of the biggest goofs is talking about the Japanese replicas used in the movie "Toro, Toro, Toro". I emailed the publisher/author/whatever & their comment was "If you aren't satisfied with the book, you may return it." > On Aug 2, 3:20 am, Don Stauffer in Minnesota <stauf...@usfamily.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Bruce > Melbourne, Australia > I have filled out & mailed in Schiffer's little comment cards & > mailed them & Squadron doesn't seem to care to correct mistakes [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > publisher/author/whatever & their comment was "If you aren't satisfied > with the book, you may return it." Ouch! >_< SignatureRemove dotty rant to reply. Have you ever felt like your patron saint is a man named Murphy? -=-=- ... I am McGarrett of Borg. Assimilate 'em, Danno! * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org >> Photo captions incorerectly >> identify types but one of the biggest goofs is talking about the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ouch! >_< He should have returned the book with the remark "You have just awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve." ;-) Pat > >> Photo captions incorerectly > >> identify types but one of the biggest goofs is talking about the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Pat Or, "This sure is a lot of bull!" Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. ;) > I realize that military/aviation history books are expensive because > of a limited market. However, if we have to pay that much for a book, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > spelling, but also the grammar.- so many incomplete sentences and > improperly compounded ones. Proof reader, not editor. But do you hire one when Johnny cain't read in the first place?.. Signature- Rufus >> I realize that military/aviation history books are expensive because >> of a limited market. However, if we have to pay that much for a book, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Proof reader, not editor. But do you hire one when Johnny cain't read > in the first place?.. Actually, either or both. Copy editors will also look for clarity, proper word use, etc. Proofreaders should mainly be concerned with finding typos, etc. provided that the copy editor has done his/her job correctly. SignatureRemove dotty rant to reply. Have you ever felt like your patron saint is a man named Murphy? -=-=- ... * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org Yes, it bugs the heck out of me when I read badly spelled English. I'm one of those rare spelling snobs and in the past 20-some years I've gotten fussy about grammar and syntax too. My high school English teachers would probably not believe it. Having been in the book printing business, I'm amazed that so much does not get mangled. We used to get galley proofs that had to be corrected again and again. Sometimes it seemed like no job ever got done: it just rotated back to us every couple of days. On top of that, whatever we were doing had to be slapped together to get sent to the author for checking. If something was wrong that was not germane to the inspection we were supposed to fix it next time around. There were many signs around the paste-up room with some version of "Why Is There Never Enough Time To Do It Right The First Time But Always Enough Time To Do It Over?" Perhaps printers are feeling the pressure to eliminate some of those time- and money-consuming tasks and 'doing it over' got shown the door. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. : If something was wrong that was : not germane to the inspection we were supposed to fix it next time : around. There were many signs around the paste-up room with some : version of "Why Is There Never Enough Time To Do It Right The First Time : But Always Enough Time To Do It Over?" It is not confined to the publishing business. The software industry sees it all of the time as well. I think the problem is due to that species that is a combo of "billy the big-mouth bass" and bobble head dolls - marketeers. Years ago, I was called to an "all hands" meeting. The site mangler was 15 minutes late. No explaination was given for the meeting, and the first words out of his mouth were: "Can we do it?" The lasting impression was of the engineers looking at each other wondering "do what?" and the bobble heads all doing their thing. Any way, it seems the words ost commonly heard for the marteting types is "market window!", like it is a holy mantra (for them, it probably is). Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes > Yes, it bugs the heck out of me when I read badly spelled English. > I'm one of those rare spelling snobs and in the past 20-some years I've > gotten fussy about grammar and syntax too. My high school English > teachers would probably not believe it. > Same here; I hated grammar in high school, but graduated from college with a minor in English. Pat > Yes, it bugs the heck out of me when I read badly spelled English. > I'm one of those rare spelling snobs and in the past 20-some years I've [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. Ironic, considering that it doesn't *really* take all that much time to do it right in the first place - it just takes a combination of ability and willingness. But both appear to be in short supply these days. SignatureRemove dotty rant to reply. Have you ever felt like your patron saint is a man named Murphy? -=-=- ... * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org |
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