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Model Forum / General / Models / August 2007Any comments?
I'm building a model of the Russian aircraft carrier - Admiral Kuznetsov at scale 1/72 I would be interested in any comments.... http://picasaweb.google.com/Mick.Elst/AdmiralKuznetsov172Model http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24011 http://www.carrierbuilders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=810 Mick Sydney Australia > I'm building a model of the Russian aircraft carrier - Admiral Kuznetsov at > scale 1/72 > > I would be interested in any comments.... > Sea-lick! I've gone the Styrofoam route with making large ship hulls; it's amazing how fast you can turn out one of those. What are you going to use to cover it? Normal fiberglass resin will dissolve the styrofoam. What's her air group going to consist of? I hope you know how much ballast it's going to take if you intend to sail something that size at its waterline. You are talking around a 150 pounds of ballast, easy. Maybe 200+ pounds. My four-foot-long Styrofoam-hulled French pre-dreadnought battleship took 35 pounds of lead shot to get her down to the correct waterline. Unless you want to give yourself a severe hernia, this carrier might best sail all of her voyages atop a fireplace mantle. ;-) Pat > You are talking around a 150 pounds of ballast, easy. > Maybe 200+ pounds. > My four-foot-long Styrofoam-hulled French pre-dreadnought battleship > took 35 pounds of lead shot to get her down to the correct waterline. > Unless you want to give yourself a severe hernia, this carrier might > best sail all of her voyages atop a fireplace mantle. ;-) I just looked at his picture again: http://tinyurl.com/2d4hjf I think we are talking around 300-400 pounds of ballast, easy. You try to lift something made out of Styrofoam up that weighs that much, and it's going to fall apart. I don't think you want to make something that big in a marine RC form. It'd be like trying to hang a lead brick from a cloud. Pat Pat I agree ship models can be built very quickly out of foam. I plan to cover in plaster to protect the foam from the fiberglass layer. When the fiberglass is cured I will eventually remove the base foam leaving me with a one of fiberglass hull. In other words this is a fiberglass hull something the size of a canoe. As for air wing will let me first finish the boat before I worry about that. I do have several kits I have acquired from SU 33s Helix choppers etc. In Sydney there is a model of the USS Enterprise in scale 1/72 and its ballast of lead I have been told is close to 250kgs - 551 pounds!!! I expect to have close to 200kgs - 440 pounds or there about but there will be one thing I won't use and that's lead. I will use water tanks to sink it to the right level to avoid giving me a hernia. This ship WILL be under remote control - RC. I plan to have 4 motors - one per shaft and one car battery per motor at the moment but this may change as I work on the ship. Also I hope to have running lights, deck lights, moving - guns, radars, elevators and who knows what else may work after all its big enough to work anything inside I want. Also your link don't work....http://tinyurl.com/2d4hjf Mick Sydney Australia >I'm building a model of the Russian aircraft carrier - Admiral Kuznetsov at >scale 1/72 >I would be interested in any comments.... >Sea-lick! >I 've gone the Styrofoam route with making large ship hulls; it's amazing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Unless you want to give yourself a severe hernia, this carrier might best >sail all of her voyages atop a fireplace mantle. ;-) >I just looked at his picture again: http://tinyurl.com/2d4hjf >I think we are talking around 300-400 136kg -181kg pounds of ballast, easy. >You try to lift something made out of Styrofoam up that weighs that much, >and it's going to fall apart. >I don't think you want to make something that big in a marine RC form. >It'd be like trying to hang a lead brick from a cloud. >Pat > In Sydney there is a model of the USS Enterprise in scale 1/72 and its > ballast of lead I have been told is close to 250kgs - 551 pounds!!! > -- I won't use -- lead. I will use water tanks > This ship WILL be under remote control - RC. I plan to have 4 motors Best of luck/results to you. One thing I find "interesting" in that type size, are the numbers that instead of RC, that are manned. As always, some do it much better appearing accurate, than others. > Best of luck/results to you. > One thing I find "interesting" in that type size, are the numbers > that instead of RC, that are manned. > As always, some do it much better appearing accurate, than others. > They probably got the idea from those small manned oil tankers that are used to train prospective steersmen in docking procedures. This is still the coolest manned model ship I've ever seen: http://www.vulcaniasubmarine.com/TESTING%20THE%20NAUTILUS%20MINISUB.htm That's from here: http://www.vulcaniasubmarine.com/ Pat Just had a look at the site. Wow now thats what I call big models. Mick >> Best of luck/results to you. >> One thing I find "interesting" in that type size, are the numbers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Pat > Just had a look at the site. Wow now thats what I call big models. > Mick > This website is interesting as it features attempts to design a Nautilus that agrees with everything in Verne's book: http://home.att.net/~JVNautilus/Catalog/some-designs.html These two stories are particularly interesting in relation to its design: http://home.att.net/~karen.crisafulli/GustavZede.html http://home.att.net/~karen.crisafulli/CigarBoats.html Here's the website map: http://home.att.net/~karen.crisafulli/sitemap.html Pat > Just had a look at the site. Wow now thats what I call big models. > Mick [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That's from here: http://www.vulcaniasubmarine.com/ > > Pat You / all might be interested in this site http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/shipmodels_menu.html has some very interesting models of all scales and quality. Meanwhile, for the person interested in 1/4 scale car. I do not know where you are at, or how you best learn (in person hands on interactive, or via correspondence/books) but besides the modeling community, you might consider the products and methods being used in auto racing. Much progress being made -especially in the Sports Racer classes. >> Just had a look at the site. Wow now thats what I call big models. >> Mick [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Much progress being made -especially in the Sports Racer > classes. Somebody enlighten me why somebody would want to make a model of one of the ugliest ships around - the Admiral Kuznetsov. Must be a guy thing ..%) - nilita ("keep that thing in the garage!") >>> Just had a look at the site. Wow now thats what I call big models. >>> Mick [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >- nilita ("keep that thing in the garage!") it's beautiful ugly. sometimes the aesthtic of looks works backwards. i think the bv141 is one of the sublimely most beautiful ac ever, >>>> Just had a look at the site. Wow now thats what I call big models. >>>> Mick [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > think > the bv141 is one of the sublimely most beautiful ac ever, Okay ... I think I get it ... in a "Beauty and the Beast" or "Hunchback of Notre Dame" kinda way ...;) - nilita >> it's beautiful ugly. sometimes the aesthtic of looks works backwards. i >> think If you want ugly, how about boxboats? The Panama Canal Authority has a website with a webcam, so you can see for yourself. www.pancanal.com > If you want ugly, how about boxboats? The Panama Canal Authority has > a website with a webcam, so you can see for yourself. www.pancanal.com <shiver> You're right. Ugly is as ugly does .... - nilita :> If you want ugly, how about boxboats? The Panama Canal Authority has :> a website with a webcam, so you can see for yourself. www.pancanal.com : :<shiver> You're right. Ugly is as ugly does .... You would know. Ugly to the bone, I tell you...  Signature"So many women. So little charm." -- Donna, to Josh; The West Wing >>> it's beautiful ugly. sometimes the aesthtic of looks works backwards. i >>> think > >If you want ugly, how about boxboats? The Panama Canal Authority has >a website with a webcam, so you can see for yourself. www.pancanal.com maybe you missed my point? not ugly for ugly's sake, but the ugly of form following function to equal the beauty pf perfection in design. the box boats are ugly, no doubt. >>>> it's beautiful ugly. sometimes the aesthtic of looks works backwards. i >>>> think [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > following function to equal the beauty pf perfection in design. > the box boats are ugly, no doubt. I think Casady was helping me get perspective. IOW, there is "ugly" and then there is UGLY (as in the box boats). - nilita >>>>> it's beautiful ugly. sometimes the aesthtic of looks works backwards. i >>>>> think [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >- nilita EGGSACKERLY! you have it. > >>- nilita ("keep that thing in the garage!") > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - nilita i liked its looks. > Somebody enlighten me why somebody would want to make a model of one of the > ugliest ships around - the Admiral Kuznetsov. Must be a guy thing ..%) > Because it _is_ ugly. I've got a 1/144th scale Soviet N-1 Moon rocket sitting in front of me as I type this, and it's no looker either. Pat > > Best of luck/results to you. > > One thing I find "interesting" in that type size, are the numbers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Pat some guy in main has a similar 1/20 scale graf spee that he rides around in http://tinyurl.com/2lqv4 Mick, Thanks, you have given me an idea. I was wanting to build a 1/4th scale custom 49 Merc and was wondering how to build the body. Now I know....foam and fiberglass! Hoping to have opening doors, trunk, and hood. It's a dream I've had for a while, but thanks to you, one step closer now! Oh, by the way, your ship is cool! Post a link so we can keep up on the progress!!! Mike -- Advice when most needed is least heeded. > I'm building a model of the Russian aircraft carrier - Admiral Kuznetsov at > scale 1/72 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Mick > Sydney Australia >I'm building a model of the Russian aircraft carrier - Admiral Kuznetsov at >scale 1/72 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Mick >Sydney Australia I have ambitions to do something similar for another (smaller hulled) ship. Can you explain what you mean by plaster? To pour plaster of paris to make a negative mold comes across as impossible to do. Too large and too much material. Too heavy to handle. Plaster will crack. On the other hand to layer fiberglass cloth over your foam core and build up the hull from there seems more doable except the surface will need some sort of smooth finish not achievable through layering the surface. Ok you brush the plaster on the base foam. You need to do this several times to build up the layer. While this is done you MUST not move the boat - It may cause cracking as you mentioned. The plaster is only a shield so that the Fiberglass when applied doesn't burn into the foam. When the fiberglass is on the ship all you do then is after it is set use body filler, similar to what is used with cars and sand back smooth. Mick > I have ambitions to do something similar for another (smaller hulled) > ship. Can you explain what you mean by plaster? To pour plaster of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > need some sort of smooth finish not achievable through layering the > surface. > Ok you brush the plaster on the base foam. You need to do this several times > to build up the layer. While this is done you MUST not move the boat - It [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>need some sort of smooth finish not achievable through layering the >>surface. May I weigh in on this? Epoxy does not desolve foam. Noe does it get hot enough to melt foam (properly mixed). and even West resin can be used for laminating fiberglass. A dry micro fairing layer (microbaloons in resin) and some sanding can produce a very slick surface. >> Ok you brush the plaster on the base foam. You need to do this several times >> to build up the layer. While this is done you MUST not move the boat - It [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >A dry micro fairing layer (microbaloons in resin) and some >sanding can produce a very slick surface. Somewhere along the way one of my thought experiments on this problem was to cut strips of absorbent paper and soak it in boiled starch (as an adhesive paste). The paper strips will then be criss-crossed in layers over the foam core. This will form the fiberglass-epoxy barrier for a one off hull. If it works out I may even build up this paper hull to say a quarter inch thick, add external reinforcing wood ribs buried inside the paper strips and have the assembly braced rigidly in a box frame. The idea is to use this paper hull form as the negative mold to make multiple fiberglas hulls. Once the foam core is removed the inside of the hull will be gel coated, polished, waxed, and coated with PVA release agent. Then the fiberglas layering build up for the "production hull". Just read this post and thought it was a good idea with the paper strips as a barrier between the foam and the fiberglass. Might give it a go on the next project. I will have to do some tests first to see if it would work for me but is worth keeping in mind anyway. Thanks for the idea.... Mick "PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message > Somewhere along the way one of my thought experiments on this problem > was to cut strips of absorbent paper and soak it in boiled starch (as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > agent. Then the fiberglas layering build up for the "production > hull". > Just read this post and thought it was a good idea with the paper strips as > a barrier between the foam and the fiberglass. Might give it a go on the > next project. I will have to do some tests first to see if it would work for > me but is worth keeping in mind anyway. > > Be careful about the permeability of what you use when dried; the polyester resin I used on a test section over Styrofoam soaked through a couple of coats of dried latex paint and ate the foam under it. Pat >> Just read this post and thought it was a good idea with the paper >> strips as a barrier between the foam and the fiberglass. Might give it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Pat I'm still not quite sure what the intent is here... But it you are trying to make a hull from a foam core all this extra stuff is counter productive. Make the foam core to shape. Cover with several layers of 1.5 oz glass cloth (sold as deck cloth) and epoxy resin. If the hull needs to be hollowm melt the foam out with an ounce or two of gasoline/laquer solvent/etc. The inside surface will be rough but can be cleaned up with sanding. If you are making a mold instead, do the above to form the plug, wax well, spray with PVA, and lay on the glass layers for the mold. FWIW... Richard on 8/7/2007 4:16 PM cavelamb himself said the following: >>> Just read this post and thought it was a good idea with the paper >>> strips as a barrier between the foam and the fiberglass. Might give [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Richard I can attest that moonshine whiskey will melt the foam. I learned this when I didn't drink the moonshine in a foam cup quick enough. :-) SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @ |
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