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Model Forum / General / Models / October 2007"Printing" our own parts!
The current issue of FineScale Modeler has an article on having custom pieces made by "printing" from a CAD drawing. We can't scan in a wheel & copy it yet, but we're getting close! The folks who 'print' the part are here. www.printapart.com Amazing! > The current issue of FineScale Modeler has an article on having > custom pieces made by "printing" from a CAD drawing. We can't scan in > a wheel & copy it yet, but we're getting close! The folks who 'print' > the part are here. www.printapart.com Amazing! We've been following this tech for some time now. Actually, yes...we can scan in a wheel and copy it: http://www.rolanddga.com/asd/products/scanners/  Signature- Rufus Cool! I just paid off my house, so now I can finance something really worthwhile! > > The current issue of FineScale Modeler has an article on having > > custom pieces made by "printing" from a CAD drawing. We can't scan in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > - Rufus Print-a-Part was at the 2007 AMPS show in April and had their first product for sale -- a set of individual link tracks for the Italeri LVT series of kits. Price was NOT cheap -- $90 a set to fit on a $35 kit -- but the detail was amazing. They are fragile but they can do tricks nobody else can do. Even the US Army uses CAD-CAM computer casting for some items where a CO2 ("cold light") laser is played into a tank of special resin to create 3D items. Best I saw was an HO caboose that came out with separate grab rails cast in place. That was 15 years ago and cost $250,000 for the equipment, so things have definitely gotten more affordable. Cookie Sewell > Print-a-Part was at the 2007 AMPS show in April and had their first > product for sale -- a set of individual link tracks for the Italeri [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Cookie Sewell Yup - stereo lithography. We do some of that, too. We also do a thing out here using laser cut butcher paper - the paper sheets are layed up and pressure glued, and then precision cut with a computer driven laser. You can cut anything from flat shapes to spheres to engraving out of the process. I've seen small examples of spheres cut inside of cubic cages...really neat - you pull away the excess to reveal the sphere inside the cube. The resulting parts are sort of somewhere between wood and resin as far as the material goes. The equipment is expensive, the material is dirt cheap. And you can lacquer coat them to make them really smooth. OTOH, the best I've seen is a plastic printer that prints working assemblies - like an adjustable wrench, or gearbox, or a bottle with a screw-off cap - that come right off the printer fully assembled and operable. These will do that - went to an afternoon demo of one once: http://www.dimensionprinting.com/ Signature- Rufus According to the FSM article, this portable air compressor they printed from the CAD drawing was $25 + $8 shipping. I suppose that's not too far out of line with a resin cast kit of the same thing. Maybe this is the next step for resin casters, do the master with CAD, send it to Print a Part & then make your mold & start casting! A buddy of mine has a machine shop & has one of these water jet cutters. It's about the size of a pool table & man, what they can do with that thing! On Sep 30, 1:17 pm, AMPS...@aol.com wrote: > Print-a-Part was at the 2007 AMPS show in April and had their first > product for sale -- a set of individual link tracks for the Italeri [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Cookie Sewell > Even the US Army uses CAD-CAM computer casting for some items where a > CO2 ("cold light") laser is played into a tank of special resin to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Cookie Sewell > Do you know how they get the excess liquid resin off of the part once it's made? Is there some sort of a solvent they soak it in? Pat > AMPS...@aol.com wrote: > > Even the US Army uses CAD-CAM computer casting for some items where a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pat There wasn't any on the parts I saw. If the laser did not "fire" to create a layer nothing stuck to the completed part. Cookie Sewell AMPSOne@aol.com wrote in news:1191176258.429200.83840@ 19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com: > Print-a-Part was at the 2007 AMPS show in April and had their first > product for sale -- a set of individual link tracks for the Italeri [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Cookie Sewell I use several 3D-printed parts for the masters of my kits. airplane kits mostly. A "print" the size of an inch thick A4 will set me back some $75 (excl VAT) and give me some very accurate, although kinda crude, shaped pieces for the masters which have to be cleaned up and detailed. The technique used is that a 1/10mm (0.004") thick layer of gupsum(?) gets printed with normal coloured ink (this contains water). then a new 1/10mm layer is formed on top of the previous layer. And yes.... because they use normal ink they can also 3D-print in colour The gypsum hardens where the water in the ink got deposited. After completion the gypsum shaped gets soaked with a PU resin or CA glue and turn rock hard and very good to work with. look here: http://www.zprinter.nl/en/ SignatureCheers, Bert-Jan > The current issue of FineScale Modeler has an article on having > custom pieces made by "printing" from a CAD drawing. We can't scan in > a wheel & copy it yet, but we're getting close! The folks who 'print' > the part are here. www.printapart.com Amazing! I wonder if this is something like I saw at the EAA exhibit in Oshkosh, WI last year where they build up a 3-D part one grain at a time one layer at a time. IIRC, it was called "sintering" (spelled?). Really cool. If this is availabl for us "Joe Sixpack" modelers that will be the greatest advance since the airbrush. > The current issue of FineScale Modeler has an article on having > custom pieces made by "printing" from a CAD drawing. We can't scan in > a wheel & copy it yet, but we're getting close! The folks who 'print' > the part are here. www.printapart.com Amazing! Two other forms of computerized fabrication that are similar are photo- etch and laser cutting. In both cases one creates the artwork on the computer. In PE the artwork is printed out as a photo mask. In the second the file goes to the CAM laser cutter. Laser cutting could make 3-D parts similar to these printers by building up layers. I have a project in planning stage that I am considering having a laser cutting place do. This service is really getting reasonable. I need a complex bridge in small scale, and it looks like I can get it done for about $20. On Oct 1, 9:21 am, Don Stauffer in Minnesota <stauf...@usfamily.net> wrote: > Two other forms of computerized fabrication that are similar are photo- > etch and laser cutting. In both cases one creates the artwork on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a complex bridge in small scale, and it looks like I can get it done > for about $20. Don, could you provide more details on the PE manufacturer. I'm looking for someone to produce affordable one-of designs. I haven't found such an outfit as most of them require a more-than-one minumum quantity. Currently I design my PE artwork. Then I print the photomasks and develop and etch my PE parts, but it is a messy and time consuming process. I would love to find someone to do the dirty work for me. Peteski Peter, Here in the Netherlands I am in contact with some architects who produce their own etchings. they sometimes produce very small series/one-offs for me, when they can squeeze it in. Maybe there are some where you live? By the way. Have you been bidding on some ceramics on Ebay yesterday? (and lost?) I was bidding on some stuff for my mum and I had an "opponent" called Peteski33, I thought "hey, that sounds familiar to me" Could be an all different peteski though. SignatureCheers, Bert-Jan > Peter, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bert-Jan I'm in the US. My etchings are usually very small. Emblems, scripts and builder's plates for automotive models. I sometimes do relief (double-sided) etchings for certain items. Peteski33 is not my eBay name. Mine has a different numeric suffix. I originally wanted just "peteski" but that was already taken by some inactive member. I even contacted them to see if they would give up their name but I never got any replies. Peteski > I'm in the US. My etchings are usually very small. Emblems, scripts > and builder's plates for automotive models. I sometimes do relief > (double-sided) etchings for certain items. Yes mine too. On several occasions I have successfully made some resin castings of etched car emblems and cockpit bezels. a friend of mine produces kits and he has series of etchings produced as small as 100 pieces by ABER. Really affordable too. I'd love to know and be able to produce the "chrome" relief stickers Tamiya includes in its kits as car emblems. > Peteski33 is not my eBay name. Mine has a different numeric suffix. I > originally wanted just "peteski" but that was already taken by some > inactive member. I even contacted them to see if they would give up > their name but I never got any replies. Ah, only good, because he lost the bids, Haha !!! > Peteski SignatureCheers, Bert-Jan > > I'm in the US. My etchings are usually very small. Emblems, scripts .... > a friend of mine produces kits and he has series of etchings produced as > small as 100 pieces by ABER. Really affordable too. Even 100 is still way too many for my needs. > I'd love to know and be able to produce the "chrome" relief stickers Tamiya > includes in its kits as car emblems. Funny that you mentioned this technology. Few years back there was a small manufacturer who was producing this type of stickers. It was Auto Dynamics (in USA). I was in contact with them and they were contemplating custom runs for customers who would provide the artwork. But they closed shop shortly after that. I tried to learn more about this technology but they were quite tight lipped. The process is done through metal deposition (sort of reverse of eteching) . I think that there is only one (or just very few) companies specializing in this process. It is mostly used by the 1:1 scale automobile manufacturer. I think that one of the companies might be in Japan. I was told that for one-of run it would cost about $200-$300 US for a letter sized sheet of metal stickers. Auto Dynamics were contemplating combining several customer's custom orders onto a single sheet in order to make the process cheaper. > > Peteski33 is not my eBay name. Mine has a different numeric suffix. I > > originally wanted just "peteski" but that was already taken by some > > inactive member. I even contacted them to see if they would give up > > their name but I never got any replies. > > Ah, only good, because he lost the bids, Haha !!! Good for you (and your mum)! Peteski > On Oct 1, 9:21 am, Don Stauffer in Minnesota <stauf...@usfamily.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Peteski I feel exactly the same way. I do not have a specific business yet for PE. However, people tell me that anyone who does custom PC board etching will do it. I have to look in the Yellow Pages. I DO have the Micro Mark PE etch set. It works, makes good PE, but it is such an involved project that I'd rather pay someone a reasonable amount. > Don, > could you provide more details on the PE manufacturer. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > develop and etch my PE parts, but it is a messy and time consuming > process. I would love to find someone to do the dirty work for me. Would you be satisfied with eliminating the darkroom, exposure, and developing? All you need is a laser printer or laser copier and a clothes iron or laminator. Simply create the artwork as a mirror image, print or photocopy directly onto a suitable paper or transfer film. Use an iron or laminator to transfer the image onto the brass. The laser toner will act as a resist. After etching, use lacquer thinner to remove the toner. Here's a good article on the technique: <http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/fh_pe.htm> I first tried it years ago using overhead transparency film for laser printers/copiers. It worked, but sometimes the toner didn't release cleanly from the film onto the brass. I've also used a transfer film called Press-n-Peel that's sold specifically for making circuit boards. It has a special coating so the toner releases easier. You can buy it direct from the manufacturer: <http://www.techniks.com/> Pulsar makes a similar product called DirectEtch, aka "toner transfer system" (TTS). They also have a line of products for making dry transfer decals. <http://www.pulsarprofx.com/> On Oct 2, 9:31 am, "Wayne C. Morris" <wayne.mor...@this.is.invalid> wrote: > In article <1191288480.086402.100...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > system" (TTS). They also have a line of products for making dry > transfer decals. <http://www.pulsarprofx.com/> I have tried the iron-on resists. It works okay for larger detail, but not the fine decal a true photo etch offers. I don't know whether the paper moves slightly during the ironing, or whether the toner squishes out during ironing. In any case, I get a broader line than what is on the artwork. Again, I find it okay for larger parts without fine detail, but I personally would still like to find a place that would do my fine detail PE needs. > I have tried the iron-on resists. It works okay for larger detail, > but not the fine decal a true photo etch offers. I don't know whether [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > without fine detail, but I personally would still like to find a place > that would do my fine detail PE needs. Don, I wrote the article for Starship Modeler. Using an iron to make the transfers is the problem; you just can't get the right pressure and temperature every time, so you end up squashing the toner in some spots or not transferring it in others. That's why I switched to using a laminator. It's an even pressure and temperature and with one or two passes, you can get excellent transfers and really fine details. You can even etch from both sides, but that would require lining up two toner sheets. Frank SignatureFrank Henriquez Programmer/Analyst Jules Stein Eye Institute, UCLA frank@ucla.edu http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/index.htm > Don, I wrote the article for Starship Modeler. Using an iron to make the > transfers is the problem; you just can't get the right pressure and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Frank Henriquez Programmer/Analyst Jules Stein Eye Institute, UCLA > fr...@ucla.edu http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/index.htm Thank you all for replies. My etchings are very small and detailed and I don't own a laser printer. So, that method is not really for me. And as I already have all the photo-based etchign chemicals, I don't think I'll invest more funds in a new way of etching. The darkroom part is not all that bad as the photoresist is not all that sensitive to indoor lights. But the process as a whole is a bit painful. And since I also do relief (2-sided etching), that complicates things a bit. I used to send my drawings to a printing service which would print them out for me on a photo typesetter. That produces a 3600dpi black on clear photomask. I have recently been successful in directly printing my photomasks using my Alps printer. I use laser transparency and I run 2 passes of black ink (one relabeled as magenta to overlap any seams in the bands). I get pretty good results on most of my masks. They are quite fragile (as the wax ink can be easily damaged) but it works and in most cases as I only have to make one set of etchings. And I no longer have to wait for the printouts. Ideally I would love to just send my drawings to some outfit and few weeks later receive the reasonably priced etched parts. Peteski > The current issue of FineScale Modeler has an article on having > custom pieces made by "printing" from a CAD drawing. We can't scan in > a wheel & copy it yet, but we're getting close! The folks who 'print' > the part are here. www.printapart.com Amazing! I've used printapart to make some very small scale figures. They're nice folks and very helpful. The process is still very expensive, though, and making the 3D originals in software is not easy. The devil is in the details, and not only do you have to create a 3D design, you have to make sure that it's printable, which means making sure that there are no holes in the resulting STL file, for example. Here are my test figures: http://149.142.139.138/web/pub/Figures/350-2500figures.jpg The largest ones are in 1/350 scale, followed by 1/700, 1/1000 and just barely visible, 1/2500 scale. The markings on the left side of the screen are mm. The plastic is very brittle. This was only a test, so the figure design and choice of a base are not ideal for casting, but I was able to make a mold. As can be seen on the figures, there's some grain to the plastic (basically, it's the 3D printer's resolution). I cut down the number of polygons on the original 3D file, and even though you can't see it well on these figures, some facial detail was duplicated. Another company to consider is: http://www.best-cast.com/ They also make RTV molds of the printed parts. I haven't tried them because their new customer sign-up doesn't work at all for me. Frank SignatureFrank Henriquez Programmer/Analyst Jules Stein Eye Institute, UCLA frank@ucla.edu http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/index.htm |
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