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Straight Lines???????

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Bert-Jan - 23 Oct 2007 13:41 GMT
And here we modelers are, trying to make the sharpest lines on our invasion  
plane models.

Take a look at how it's done in real.

http://www.6juin1944.com/album/airborne/index.php?id=10

Very interesting site by the way, with very nice pictures.

Signature

Cheers,

Bert-Jan

Don Stauffer in Minnesota - 23 Oct 2007 15:24 GMT
> And here we modelers are, trying to make the sharpest lines on our invasion
> plane models.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Bert-Jan

Indeed, this again resurfaces the issues with weathering, darkening
seams and panel lines, etc.  There are two schools of modeling- one
that we model as if the manufacturers of prototypes could have
produced perfect specimans to their original prints, and the model
depicts the day it left the factory.

The other school wants to model prototypes that are in field service,
with all the chips, dents, poor fitting panels, dirt, exhaust and oil
stains, etc.

I admire the armour builders for their hand decorated markings, and
would like to try that sometimes, but don't have the guts to do it on
model, but don't have a printer that can make white decals (no, I am
not going to search for and purchase one that does).
crw59@earthlink.net - 24 Oct 2007 00:15 GMT
On Oct 23, 7:24 am, Don Stauffer in Minnesota <stauf...@usfamily.net>
wrote:

> > And here we modelers are, trying to make the sharpest lines on our invasion
> > plane models.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> model, but don't have a printer that can make white decals (no, I am
> not going to search for and purchase one that does).

quick and dirty works for me. most likely the job was given to some
private with a bucket and a brush.  probably later after D-Day did
they take more care in painting the lines.

Craig
Enzo Matrix - 23 Oct 2007 18:56 GMT
> And here we modelers are, trying to make the sharpest lines on our
> invasion plane models.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Very interesting site by the way, with very nice pictures.

There's a very fine line that modellers walk sometimes. We know that
temporary markings like these were less than perfect, but just how far do we
go to portray them accurately?  In many cases, an accurate portrayal will
jsut look like slapdash modelling.

Quite a few years ago, I built a Heller Messerchmitt Bf-109K. I had found an
interesting colour scheme in Scale Models magazine which showed an aircraft
with a very sparse mottle on the fuselage sides and a hand-painted code
number of 206 aft of the fuselage Balkenkreuze.  I faithfully replicated the
crooked hand-painted numbering style and was very pleased with the result.
Unfortunately, when I displayed it at the next meeting of my modelling club,
it caused some raised eyebrows. I was taken to one side by the club guru
(the club was on an RAF station, so the guru was *always* right simply
because he was a squadron leader) who asked me in a very patronising manner
"Couldn't you have found some suitable decals?  That's really not the
standard we aim for here."  LOL

Railway modellers have similar problems. Have a look at photographs of some
steam locomotives.  Sometimes you will see them with cabs that are so
out-of-true that they look like ricketty garden sheds!  I once tried
replicating this, once again working from a photo, but the result looked so
dreadful that I pulled the cab apart and rebuilt it using a set-square!

Signature

Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

Bert-Jan - 23 Oct 2007 21:39 GMT
>> And here we modelers are, trying to make the sharpest lines on our
>> invasion plane models.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> result looked so dreadful that I pulled the cab apart and rebuilt it
> using a set-square!

I know, I'm not saying we're doin'it wrong, it was just a very nice example
.
You can also see lots of pictures (and in real life) of airplane stressed
metal skins that look more like a washingboard. But if you replicated that
on a model, you'ld definately not have a show winner. A show stopper maybe,
but no winner!
http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Yasakuni/D4Y-Rear-7.jpg

Signature

Cheers,

Bert-Jan

Pat Flannery - 24 Oct 2007 06:15 GMT
> You can also see lots of pictures (and in real life) of airplane stressed
> metal skins that look more like a washingboard. But if you replicated that
> on a model, you'ld definately not have a show winner. A show stopper maybe,
> but no winner!
> http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Yasakuni/D4Y-Rear-7.jpg
>  

B-52's have forward fuselages that look like they are made out recycled
aluminum foil.
This thing was a real terror of stressed-skin construction:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/farmer/120/inflexible.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beardmore_Inflexible
Pirates would love this plane; if somebody got out of line, you could
have them walk the plank: http://tinyurl.com/2x9q57
Here's a You Tube video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5TUpaxw4ME
And no, I don't know how the wings stay on either.

Pat
falsedawn2@hotmail.com - 02 Nov 2007 19:49 GMT
>I know, I'm not saying we're doin'it wrong, it was just a very nice example
>.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>but no winner!
>http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Yasakuni/D4Y-Rear-7.jpg

And the same applies to ships. I was reminded of this while rewatching
"Destroyer - Forged in Steel" on the History Channel (I think) and
noting the uneven sides of the abovedeck structures on a newly built
ship.
willshak - 03 Nov 2007 03:04 GMT
on 11/2/2007 2:49 PM falsedawn2@hotmail.com said the following:

>  
>> I know, I'm not saying we're doin'it wrong, it was just a very nice example
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> ship.
>  
The WWII and post war destroyer's hull plates at the rear were always
rumpled and you could see where the frames were. This was probably due
to water pressure, as the destroyers spend a lot of time under water in
rough seas.

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Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

someone@some.domain - 03 Nov 2007 04:05 GMT
>on 11/2/2007 2:49 PM falsedawn2@hotmail.com said the following:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>to water pressure, as the destroyers spend a lot of time under water in
>rough seas.

really? so they crumple like beer cans?
willshak - 03 Nov 2007 15:46 GMT
on 11/2/2007 11:05 PM someone@some.domain said the following:
>  
>> on 11/2/2007 2:49 PM falsedawn2@hotmail.com said the following:
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> really? so they crumple like beer cans?
>  
No. Not that bad. Just buckled in a little between framing members. Even
the Cruisers had some buckling, but not as bad as the lighter hulled
Destroyers. I tried to find some pics through Google, but was unsuccessful.
I spent two years on a Cruiser in the Med and many destroyers came
alongside for transfers, replenishment, and to top off their oil from
our ship when the fleet oilers were not around. I got a boatload of 35mm
transparencies of my time at sea, including some rough water pics taken
from the upper bridge. One day, I may scan them into usable web pics.

Signature

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

someone@some.domain - 03 Nov 2007 16:27 GMT
>on 11/2/2007 11:05 PM someone@some.domain said the following:
>> In article <13inlq3hblvqr27@news.supernews.com>, willshak
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>transparencies of my time at sea, including some rough water pics taken
>from the upper bridge. One day, I may scan them into usable web pics.

ok, thanks.
Rufus - 23 Oct 2007 19:56 GMT
> And here we modelers are, trying to make the sharpest lines on our invasion  
> plane models.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Very interesting site by the way, with very nice pictures.

...they pretty-up a lot of nose art, too.  Particularly the more modern
stuff.

Signature

     - Rufus

Disco58 - 26 Oct 2007 01:23 GMT
I went to a show a few years ago that had aircraft on display that looked
like a half-blind drunken monkey painted them.  I knew of the guy that
built them, and was fairly sure of his level of talent, so I knew
something was up.  When the judges came by and just gave them the
wide-eyed stare and shook their heads and turned to move on, a teenager
walked over and laid some pictures on the table next to the planes.  The
judges looked at the pics then the planes and then at one another.  For
the four planes, there were three golds and a silver award handed out.
When queried about the silver, the judge said the builder had forgotten a
couple dents.  The point would be that no matter how you build something,
if it has odd features of whatever type, have documentation to cover it.
Don Stauffer in Minnesota - 26 Oct 2007 02:18 GMT
> I went to a show a few years ago that had aircraft on display that looked
> like a half-blind drunken monkey painted them.  I knew of the guy that
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> couple dents.  The point would be that no matter how you build something,
> if it has odd features of whatever type, have documentation to cover it.

I used to judge flying model scale contests.  Half the score was for
the static judging, half for the flying. In the static judging, you
were REQUIRED to supply documentation, including three-views.  If no
documentation, zero scale points.

I think this would be a good idea for plastic scale too.  Too often
the judging depends on the judge's memory and familiarity with the
subject.  In any group of half dozen or less judges, you are not going
to find judges familiar with EVERY aircraft (or ship or tank or car)
in history.  In so many cases if it looks reasonable it is considered
to be scale.  But indeed if someone enters a really authentic model
that does not conform to pre-conceived notions of what certain
aircraft look like, the entrant really suffers, no matter how
authentic the model.
Greg Heilers - 26 Oct 2007 03:31 GMT
>> I went to a show a few years ago that had aircraft on display that looked
>> like a half-blind drunken monkey painted them.  I knew of the guy that
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> aircraft look like, the entrant really suffers, no matter how
> authentic the model.

That approach sounds logical - at first - but it is a bit
"authortarian" when you rethink it.  The safest and most
civil approach:  accept the idea that the artist/builder
has done more research on the particular subject, than
the judges have.  (This is true in the vast majority of the
cases - and at a higher percentage than "this here judge
knows the subject matter.")  Forget about looking for
"accuracy."  (Of course, exceptions can be made, but
for only the blatantly obvious - such as a wing sloppily
glued on upside down...the odds of documentation surfacing
for *that*, we can agree, are about a bazillion to one.)

Signature

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
AUS
   .....

He gets it from your side of the family, you know.  No monsters on my
side.

        -- Homer Simpson
          Treehouse of Horror II

Don Stauffer in Minnesota - 26 Oct 2007 14:47 GMT
On Oct 25, 9:40 pm, Greg Heilers <gNOSPAMheil...@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
wrote:

> >> I went to a show a few years ago that had aircraft on display that looked
> >> like a half-blind drunken monkey painted them.  I knew of the guy that
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>                 -- Homer Simpson
>                    Treehouse of Horror II

I guess what I am getting at is that many scoring systems have
seperate sections for workmanship and fidelity to scale.  It is very
hard for most judges without some documentation to judge the fidelity
to scale.  Thus, what gets judged is ONLY the workmanship.  That being
the case, I think we should either require documentation or else make
judging ONLY workmanship.
 
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