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Model Forum / General / Models / November 2007How Long Do Glues Hold A Kit Together Until It Fails ???
I was going to build up some larger resin figures with CA this winter as the fumes from epoxy would not work to well inside the house. I know CA does not have much shear strength so I'm not sure how well it will hold up as the figures I have range from 1/5, 1/6 and 1/8 scale. Who here has the oldest kit/resin figure built with CA? At Berkeley Hardware I overheard a clerk telling a customer that the Testors blue tube of glue (which I thought melted the plastic creating a permament bond) would only last around 10 years. Never heard that one before. craig It depends on the type of glue you use. I found a new one in January called "Sinbad" and unlike normal ACC is it more related to the glues dentists use on crowns. Lots of strength plus sheer strength as well. You may want to try it (see their websitem, just Google "Sinbad" and "glue") as it works well. It's not cheap -- $55 for a sampler package of seven different products -- but beats the frustration when the ACC shears off. Cookie Sewell on 11/12/2007 5:22 PM crw59@earthlink.net said the following: > I was going to build up some larger resin figures with CA this winter > as the fumes from epoxy would not work to well inside the house. I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I have 30 year old plastic models, glued with CA, liquid plastic glue, and tube glue, that are still intact.  SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @ : At Berkeley Hardware I overheard a clerk telling a customer that the : Testors blue tube of glue What is that? Sounds like the "child safe" junk. Anyway, I would never recommend using tube styrene glue. It is not a matter of "if" but "when" you ruin the model with a glue string from the tube. I definitely recommend liquid glues, either the black bottle Testors sells, or the Tamiya green label glue. I do not really recommend Tenax - it is too "hot" and evaporates in the bottle. Ambroid Pro-Weld is okay, but do not try using the brush in the bottle - way too big. CA I dislike - I become "one with the bottle" way too easily... Or it goes bad too quickly. Sigh. Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes > : At Berkeley Hardware I overheard a clerk telling a customer that the > : Testors blue tube of glue [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and evaporates in the bottle. Ambroid Pro-Weld is okay, but > do not try using the brush in the bottle - way too big. Ambroid Pro-Weld is the bomb. But it's apparently out of production. I have some that I'm using, and when it's gone it's gone. Anyone have a line on a good supply? Anyway to 'cool' tenax to keep it in the jar longer? I don't care for Tamiya, so maybe back to Testor's liquid. We'll see. --- Stephen >> crw59@earthlink.net <crw59@earthlink.net> wrote: : >> : At Berkeley Hardware I overheard a clerk telling a customer that the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > have some that I'm using, and when it's gone it's gone. Anyone have a > line on a good supply? I have a can of xylene and some polystyrene foam. When I need some glue I add some of the latter to a little of the former. The plastic dissolves almost immediately so it's not hard to make up a 'cement' as viscous or runny as suits the purpose. > Anyway to 'cool' tenax to keep it in the jar longer? I don't care for > Tamiya, so maybe back to Testor's liquid. We'll see. > --- Stephen > I have a can of xylene and some polystyrene foam. When I need some glue > I add some of the latter to a little of the former. The plastic > dissolves almost immediately so it's not hard to make up a 'cement' as > viscous or runny as suits the purpose. Xylene isn't the safest stuff in the world to work with: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/xylene/recognition.html Pat >> I have a can of xylene and some polystyrene foam. When I need some >> glue I add some of the latter to a little of the former. The plastic >> dissolves almost immediately so it's not hard to make up a 'cement' as >> viscous or runny as suits the purpose. >> > Xylene isn't the safest stuff in the world to work with: Of course the usual precautions apply. The one that worries me most is Testors Dullcote. Any idea what the solvent is? > http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/xylene/recognition.html > > Pat >>> I have a can of xylene and some polystyrene foam. When I need some >>> glue I add some of the latter to a little of the former. The plastic [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Pat how often do you smell it and for how long? i use normal spray/brush paint precautions and still have only 2 heads. > >>> I have a can of xylene and some polystyrene foam. When I need some > >>> glue I add some of the latter to a little of the former. The plastic [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > how often do you smell it and for how long? i use normal spray/brush paint > precautions and still have only 2 heads. And no waiting... Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. ;) >> In article <13jk0sjsp16bn8a@corp.supernews.com>, yowie > <arndalebile@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. >;) 2 opionions, no surety. I built the Lone Star Resins CSS Hunley sub in @1989 and it's still holding together. On Nov 12, 5:22 pm, "cr...@earthlink.net" <cr...@earthlink.net> wrote: > I was going to build up some larger resin figures with CA this winter > as the fumes from epoxy would not work to well inside the house. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > craig >I built the Lone Star Resins CSS Hunley sub in @1989 and it's still >holding together. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> craig got any pics? i bought his baka for future build. Well, from a fumes perspective, the CA isn't going to be any more pleasant or any less toxic than the epoxy. Wifey has asthma and very sensitive sniffer, so I used to deal with the "what's that smell?!" all the time. Then I started putting parts in a styrofoam shipping box to cure, then uncorking them outside. Even in the Midwest winter I can go outside for thirty seconds to pop the top and let the smell out without the parts getting cold. I don't know what you're building, but shear strength with figures shouldn't be an issue if you drill and pin the appendages. As far as longevity, I have an INDY Lotus I built in about '66 or '67 with Testors orange tube glue, and no glue joints have let go. The only commercial glue I use now is Zap-a-gap CA's, and I use MEK for styrene. > I was going to build up some larger resin figures with CA this winter > as the fumes from epoxy would not work to well inside the house. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > craig Craig, Your question: "How long do glues hold a kit together until it fails?" depends on how long you will have the model sit on the shelf/display case without handling it. I have found thru experience that if the model sits without being touched/handled, it will last forever. But if you are handling it, moving it, or whatever, the time will come when it will eventually break. I have made some repairs to some resin pieces my wife has as decorative items throughout the house, and the CA glue "welds" (for lack of a better word) have been holding on for over 15 years. On the other hand, I glued a toy for my granddaughter a few weeks ago, and it did not last more than two days. Again, it all depends on how you treat the glued item - look at any constructed item in a museum and they have been glued for over 10 to 15 year some even longer. My two cents. Ray === > > I was going to build up some larger resin figures with CA this winter > > as the fumes from epoxy would not work to well inside the house. I [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Ray > === I can virtually guarantee that dusting models invites mild destruction. Every time I went on a cleaning binge there were parts that detached. The absolute worst case I had was my very first 1/72 B-52. Putting it back on the shelf I managed to catch the vertical tail on the next shelf up. This caused the model to jump out of my hands and dive to the floor and split open. I was so distraught and that hideous Aurora B-29 was sitting there looking too smug. Let's say I had two caualties that day. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > I can virtually guarantee that dusting models invites mild destruction. > Every time I went on a cleaning binge there were parts that detached. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sitting there looking too smug. Let's say I had two caualties that day. > You try to clean this thing sometime: http://www.starshipmodeler.com/gallery/pf_disc.htm I haven't seen one of those Aurora B-29s in around thirty years or more, actually that's probably more of a collector's item than the B-52, despite being a really crappy model kit. My Monogram B-52 had a very odd end also... I took it to school back in 1973, and it was hung in the Aviation Class classroom. A few days later someone stole it. And it had scratchbuilt H-bombs on it! Who knows? SPECTRE may have them now... :-D Pat One of my excuses for building so few is that I also build plexiglass display cases for every project. Never one 6 feet long though...... ;<) T2 >> I can virtually guarantee that dusting models invites mild destruction. >> Every time I went on a cleaning binge there were parts that detached. The [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Pat > One of my excuses for building so few is that I also build plexiglass > display cases for every project. Never one 6 feet long though...... ;<) That one's not in a case; that one's two feet above my head as I sleep. Once, there was a model spaceship I built, six feet long, inside of a case... and here's what happened to it: http://tinyurl.com/3c2bja http://tinyurl.com/2tge3p http://tinyurl.com/yp6fkm Discovery is about 6" longer than the "Valley Forge"; and nothing, but nothing, I ever build is going inside of a display case ever again, unless it's made of structurally sound reinforced tempered glass and needs never be moved. Note that my Fort Seward model isn't under any sort of Plexiglas protective cover either: http://www.geocities.com/hodag_/Image025.jpg This is due to two facts: 1.) The Plexiglas cover would cost more than I charged them for the whole 4' x 8' model. 2.) If as few people visit the museum per year as normal, dust getting on the model should amount to around 1/1,000 inch per century. The model should stay damn near as clean exposed as hermetically sealed in a gaseous nitrogen environment. :-D Pat > > I can virtually guarantee that dusting models invites mild destruction. > > Every time I went on a cleaning binge there were parts that detached. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You try to clean this thing sometime: > http://www.starshipmodeler.com/gallery/pf_disc.htm I think I saw that one before but I definitely remember the part about taking it in the shower with you. > I haven't seen one of those Aurora B-29s in around thirty years or more, > actually that's probably more of a collector's item than the B-52, > despite being a really crappy model kit. It was over thirty years ago, getting closer to forty, now. I got the B-52 the very first year they came out, somewhat ahead of my B-47. > My Monogram B-52 had a very odd end also... I took it to school back in > 1973, and it was hung in the Aviation Class classroom. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Pat I wonder how they got that out under their coat. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > taking it in the shower with you. > And it's about time to do it again; it's been around two years. The ship itself only weighs around 15-20 pounds, but the base doubles its weight, and figuring out a way to crouch on the bed and lift it off the wall while kneeling on the mattress is always fun. Still, it has always had a lucky aspect about it despite its age, only bettered by the big "Romulan Advanced Bird-Of-Prey" which has so far fallen off the ceiling once, a bookshelf twice and a end table three times with only a couple of small cracks and paint chips to show for it. That monster, despite a near three-foot-wide wingspan, appears to be the damn toughest and luckiest thing I've ever built in my entire career. When it falls down everything it falls on is destroyed...but the damn ship is left intact. When it fell off of the ceiling the first time it went straight down onto my Radio Shack one foot diameter plasma sphere while it was running, made the thing implode with a noise like someone had set a grenade off in the room (my friend and I both dove for the floor; we thought someone had blown out the window with a shotgun) and neatly landed on its back, undamaged. So I stuck it up on a stand, and twice since the thing has fallen off of a bookcase from six feet up (and the end table thrice, but that's no big thing as it's rather like giving it a light tap as far as potential damage goes) and required a bit of supergluing to get cracks in the the wing pivot mechanism reattached to the warp nacelles, but other that that it's fine. If I have to take a Romulan Star Navy warship up against the Klingon Imperial Fleet, I can guarantee you it's going to be a Shandakar class Bird-Of-Prey. "Tactical! Damage to the enemy vessel!" "Six direct disruptor hits...three direct photon torpedo hits amidships." "Damage report!" "We have disabled one of its secondary disrupter batteries due to the detachment of the small Walmart green plastic ovoid cabochon that is its emitter crystal sir... I am also indicating minor chipping of the green metallic paint on its exterior." "Excellent! These Romulan pahtk shall soon know that it is like to defy the will of the Empire!" "Captain... it is now bringing the two large ovoid wingtip Walmart green plastic cabochons mounted on the Robotech knees and B-52 tire halves to bear...." "FULL SHIELDS!" :-) Pat > >>> I can virtually guarantee that dusting models invites mild destruction. > >>> Every time I went on a cleaning binge there were parts that detached. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Pat Them Romulans is tuff! Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. ;) >> pedo hits amidships." >> "Damage report!" [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > Did you ever notice there are "lucky" and "unlucky" models though? Some kits seem to be cursed, even though they should be straightforward to assemble and not particularly challenging. And even when finished, the bad luck hangs around them...if you are out of the room and hear a crash sound from somewhere in the model display area, you already have a pretty good idea of which one it is that fell. I lost two or three Airfix/MPC He-177's through fluky accidents after they were made. It was like the bad luck of the real aircraft stuck with the model of it in some way. The Romulan BOP on the other hand has got some weird good luck hanging around it. Maybe it's the old adage about how the bad guys seem to be almost impossible to kill. (I mean seriously...it gets stuck in a honest-to-God real plasma implosion and comes out almost unscathed? Who's down in engineering, the Romulan version of Scotty?) It was actually the second crack at building a model of that idea for a design; the first time around the metallic paint I used on its predecessor was Testors spray enamel, and when it was Dullcoted it caused the underlying paint to develop cracks. I have some JPGs of the new one if anyone wants to see what it looks like. It's a big flying dragonish looking thing that's considerably more streamlined than the Klingon BOP, but of around the same size in the "real" craft... the idea being that once the Klingon/Romulan alliance fell apart, they'd want something superior to the BOP design and technology they had given to the Klingons in case they got into a outright war with them. So the design reflects the Klingon style BOP, with the more streamlined look of the Romulan Warbird beginning to emerge. At rest on a planetary surface its wings outboard of the warp nacelles swing up ninety degrees to cut down on the storage and landing area it needs. It was tricky to do, but that works on the model. Pat >The Romulan BOP on the other hand has got some weird good luck hanging >around it. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >caused the underlying paint to develop cracks. >I have some JPGs of the new one if anyone wants to see what it looks like. Always interested in seeing fan designs. >It's a big flying dragonish looking thing that's considerably more >streamlined than the Klingon BOP, but of around the same size in the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >needs. >It was tricky to do, but that works on the model. Signature-Jack > Always interested in seeing fan designs. Hang on a day and I'll send you some JPGS. Pat >> Always interested in seeing fan designs. > >Hang on a day and I'll send you some JPGS. > >Pat post them in the pic group? [Romulan Bird of Prey] >> Always interested in seeing fan designs. > >Hang on a day and I'll send you some JPGS. Got them, thanks. Interesting, it looks like you DIDN'T begin with the Klingon BoP kit. Maybe the wing, or is that also from something else? Signature-Jack > Got them, thanks. > Interesting, it looks like you DIDN'T begin with the Klingon BoP > kit. Maybe the wing, or is that also from something else? > It's a Revell stealth bomber with the outer wing panels reversed: http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/REVELL%20B-2%20HIGH%20TECHNOLOGY%20BOMBER%20PAGE.htm I'd forgotten that the original kit was part of the "Birds Of Prey" series. :-) Pat Pat >> Interesting, it looks like you DIDN'T begin with the Klingon BoP >> kit. Maybe the wing, or is that also from something else? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I'd forgotten that the original kit was part of the "Birds Of Prey" >series. :-) Heh. Well, if anyone knows stealth... Are the "canards" from the F-19, then? Signature-Jack >> It's a Revell stealth bomber with the outer wing panels reversed: >> http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/REVELL%20B-2%20HIGH%20TECHNOLOGY%20BOMBER%20PAGE.htm [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Are the "canards" from the F-19, then? > Those are the outer folding wing sections off of the Monogram "F-19" stealth fighter in 1/48 scale. For fun, see if you can figure out what they are attached to that makes up the basis of the forward bridge area of the ship. Here's a clue - Imperial Stormtroopers died on these by driving them straight into a tree. ;-) Pat >>The Romulan BOP on the other hand has got some weird good luck hanging >>around it. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>needs. >>It was tricky to do, but that works on the model. i always thought the klingons were deriviative, using other people's ideas and tech. they do indeed seem russian and while violent and militaristic, are still kind of f.ck-ups. the romulans are the ss in space, they'll kill your mother just for fun and exterminate a planet if you insult the grand gogul. (whatever the big stink was called.) where the klingons were having duels for "honor", the romulans were exterminationg planetary populations for a supply of cheap dilythium crystals. a kilingon would rape your sister; a romulan would eat her, alive, with no salt. i like the romulans, they're easy to to busines with. > >>The Romulan BOP on the other hand has got some weird good luck hanging > >>around it. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > salt. > i like the romulans, they're easy to to busines with. IIRC, 'Praetor' was the term. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. >> i always thought the klingons were deriviative, using other people's ideas and >> tech. they do indeed seem russian and while violent and militaristic, are [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > IIRC, 'Praetor' was the term. > That was a actual Roman rank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetor One early description of Klingons that they used when coming up with the race was "Genghis Khan's hoards with ray guns". :-) > >> i always thought the klingons were deriviative, using other people's ideas and > >> tech. they do indeed seem russian and while violent and militaristic, are [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > One early description of Klingons that they used when coming up with the > race was "Genghis Khan's hoards with ray guns". :-) To quote the book "The Making of Star Trek", the "Romulans are highly militaristic, aggressive by nature, ruthless in warfare, and do not take captives. The Star Empire is a dictatorship, with some similarities to the warrior-stoic philosophies of Earth's ancient Roman Empire." I probably picked up the 'Praetor' title from one of the paperbacks I have. I know one author tried to change their name from Romulans to Rihannsu, based on the idea that 'Romulan' was the human appellation. It's not in this book but somewhere I learned that the home system was dominated by binary stars named "Romulus" and "Remus". Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > It's not in this book but somewhere I learned that the home system was > dominated by binary stars named "Romulus" and "Remus". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus_(Star_Trek) The two planets are what the bird is grabbing in its claws in their insignia: http://members.tripod.com/ttal0/0b3baa00.jpg Pat > > I can virtually guarantee that dusting models invites mild destruction. > > Every time I went on a cleaning binge there were parts that detached. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Pat I'm guessing it was KAOS, not Spectre... Craig |
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