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Model Forum / General / Models / November 2007Tips On Liquid Glue Use Please
Okay, gonna take the plunge and give it a try. Reasons why I avoided it, whether accurate or not is debatable: evaporates quickly and cannot leave lid ajar to use it repeatedly comes with huge applicator brush not enough product attaches to toothpicks, etc to allow precision placement will run down the model if over applied what else ???? I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this liquid stuff. Craig > I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this > liquid stuff. > The Testors in the triangular black plastic bottle uses a very small diameter stainless steel tube to dispense the glue and makes putting it right where you want it easy. It also cuts down on the fumes a great deal, and if you screw the cap on after use will last many years without drying out. A vast improvement over the old bottle type liquid cement. Try that once and you'll never go back to the tube. Pat > cr...@earthlink.net wrote: > > I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Pat The only thing to watch out for is that the tube is so small the capillary action means it comes out REAL slowly. I sometimes think it is clogged, but eventually the stuff flows out. I have taken to turning it upside down a minute or two before I actually need it, so it is ready to use by the time I actually need it. Once it starts to flow, it is fine. But if you turn it right side up again, and it sits for a couple of minutes, then you have to restart the flow again next time. > cr...@earthlink.net wrote: > > I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Pat The only thing to watch out for is that the tube is so small the capillary action means it comes out REAL slowly. I sometimes think it is clogged, but eventually the stuff flows out. I have taken to turning it upside down a minute or two before I actually need it, so it is ready to use by the time I actually need it. Once it starts to flow, it is fine. But if you turn it right side up again, and it sits for a couple of minutes, then you have to restart the flow again next time. Am Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:01:31 -0800 schrieb "Don Stauffer in Minnesota": >The only thing to watch out for is that the tube is so small the >capillary action means it comes out REAL slowly. I sometimes think it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >But if you turn it right side up again, and it sits for a couple of >minutes, then you have to restart the flow again next time. And if it happens to clog permanently because you forgot one bottle somewhere on a shelf and rediscover it after half a year, just pull the steel tube out, hold it with a tweezers, use a lighter to heat it up to orange-glowing, so all stuff inside can burn off and evaporate. After cooling down (needs just a couple of seconds) re-stick the tube and all works well again. As a very occasional builder of plastic models now (other hobbies got primary ones), I have one about half filled tube of revell contacta professional already over 3 or 4 years old, and used my procedure a couple of times when in need, and every time with absolute success. cu, ZiLi aka HKZL (Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker)  Signature"Abusus non tollit usum" - Latin: Abuse is no argument against proper use. mailto: heinrich@zili.de http://zili.de > Am Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:01:31 -0800 schrieb "Don Stauffer in > Minnesota": [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > couple of times when in need, and every time with absolute success. > And keep those metal tubes when the glue runs out, because you can make them into great gun barrels or the thicker part of a pitot tube with another piece of metal tube or sprue inserted into them for the thin end of the pitot tube. Pat on 11/13/2007 12:43 PM crw59@earthlink.net said the following: > Okay, gonna take the plunge and give it a try. Reasons why I avoided > it, whether accurate or not is debatable: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > what else ???? > Get the Testors liquid glue in the black plastic bottle that sits on an angle. http://www.testors.com/catalog_item.asp?itemNbr=1455 I have a bottle that is years old and still works. Available at hobby stores and craft stores like A.C.Moore and Michaels (in the kids section). I just put a couple of drops in a plastic lid or on a piece of aluminum foil and dip the applicator into that to apply to a part. It works just like CA glue, only it takes longer to dry. > I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this > liquid stuff. > > Craig > > SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @ > on 11/13/2007 12:43 PM cr...@earthlink.net said the following: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > foil and dip the applicator into that to apply to a part. > It works just like CA glue, only it takes longer to dry. will buy a bottle right away. so with this stuff you can pour out a small pool of it to work with and it won't evaporate or start to cure right away? Takes longer to dry - can it be held to get a certain tack to it so it can hold a piece in place while it drys or do I have to hold it all together until it starts working. Sorry to be unclear on this but for some reason the only thing that I keep recalling hearing about the glue is that you have to work fast with it. Old Fart with Lots of Tube Glue...... > > I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this > > liquid stuff. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > In Hamptonburgh, NY > To email, remove the double zeroes after @ on 11/13/2007 6:13 PM crw59@earthlink.net said the following: > >> on 11/13/2007 12:43 PM cr...@earthlink.net said the following: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > right away? > It'll take a few minutes to start to dry, and from the bottom up. I've never timed it. If you can get it into a small depression where it has less surface area exposed to air, it will stay longer. Don't spread it out where more surface area exposed as it will dry faster. > Takes longer to dry - can it be held to get a certain tack to it so it > can hold a piece in place while it drys or do I have to hold it all > together until it starts working. It is a plastic melter. I have found that putting a tiny bit on both parts and then waiting for a few seconds, makes it kinda sticky. If it is a small part, it will stay by itself. If a larger part, it may take a little clamping or taping for a few minutes to keep it together. > Sorry to be unclear on this but for > some reason the only thing that I keep recalling hearing about the > glue is that you have to work fast with it. > Not so much. It'll dry faster than tube glue because it is thinner. > Old Fart with Lots of Tube Glue...... > Old fart here too. > >>> I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @ >> Old Fart with Lots of Tube Glue...... >> > > Old fart here too. Oh yeah? Remember Eagle Brand model cement? That will certainly show your vintage if anything does. :-) Pat on 11/13/2007 8:02 PM Pat Flannery said the following: >>> Old Fart with Lots of Tube Glue...... >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Pat I can't remember the names of the glue I used 25 years ago. I remember that after the kids started pouring the stuff in paper bags and sniffing it for the toluene high, at least one company changed the formula to an orange smelling glue. I liked the smell of that one. SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @ >> Oh yeah? Remember Eagle Brand model cement? >> That will certainly show your vintage if anything does. :-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sniffing it for the toluene high, at least one company changed the > formula to an orange smelling glue. I liked the smell of that one. Eagle was long gone twenty-five years ago...we're talking around 45 years ago in my case. Revell used to have a model cement also IIRC. Neither was quality glue. Pat >>> Oh yeah? Remember Eagle Brand model cement? >>> That will certainly show your vintage if anything does. :-) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Pat i had one of the tiny tubes revell out in a kit. it was basic tube glue and worked ok. wish i had kept the tube. > >> Oh yeah? Remember Eagle Brand model cement? > >> That will certainly show your vintage if anything does. :-) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pat I remember the Eagle name but I never had any. Revell's was Type S for styrene. I've been told that they had other types for other materials but I couldn't guess their letters. Type S worked fairly well even when it was old. I bought a carrier model kit at a church flea market once that had several bottles of paint and the tube of glue. Rather than keep it unspoiled and unopened, I used it. I donated the squashed tube to a friend who collects modelling ephemera. My all-time liquid glue favourite was Pactra's. I tried Testors and always got sick to my stomach with it. Obviously I'm not a fan of Testors for buying out Pactra and putting so many of their products off the market. I've been using Plastruct PlastiWeld since my last bottle of Pactra's ran dry. I did buy a bottle of Tenax but never got to use it before it evapourated. They guy behind that brand must have worked for Official Paints. ;) Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > My all-time liquid glue favourite was Pactra's. I tried Testors and > always got sick to my stomach with it. Obviously I'm not a fan of > Testors for buying out Pactra and putting so many of their products off > the market. > Although they later made quality products, during the early 1960's Pactra paints were horrible; they cost ten cents a bottle versus Testors fifteen cents per bottle, and were full of lumps. It wasn't until Pactra introduced their "Camouflage Colors" line of paints that they really pulled ahead of Testors in the paint race, by deciding to go with quality over economy. Revell "S" glue was far superior to Eagle's model glue which would go soft again as soon as the temperature went much over eighty degrees and would make strings all over the place when you were trying to apply it to the model. Really awful stuff. Here's a blast from the past: http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-PACTRA-COLORS-NAMEL-PAINT-SET-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ270185 302943QQcmdZViewItem You can judge the age of that by the fact it has the prototype Boeing 707 on the box cover. Pat > > My all-time liquid glue favourite was Pactra's. I tried Testors and > > always got sick to my stomach with it. Obviously I'm not a fan of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Pactra paints were horrible; they cost ten cents a bottle versus Testors > fifteen cents per bottle, and were full of lumps. Hmm. We used to buy the large Pactra bottles for 15¢ whilst Testors were going for 10¢. The only problem experienced with Pactra was the longer waiting time on drying. This of course was a major flaw when you were trying to set speed records building kits. > It wasn't until Pactra introduced their "Camouflage Colors" line of > paints that they really pulled ahead of Testors in the paint race, by > deciding to go with quality over economy. My first use of those was on a 1/72 Revell Thunderbolt. The Camouflage Grey was way too light for WWII subjects but the OD was a revellation. I later used the Terra Cotta for the exterior of my G8N1 Rita. 'someone' can tell you how that looked 35 years later. I still have some of those jars in my paint supply and keep my eye open for any that might be worth obtaining. > Revell "S" glue was far superior to Eagle's model glue which would go > soft again as soon as the temperature went much over eighty degrees and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You can judge the age of that by the fact it has the prototype Boeing > 707 on the box cover. I'll have to wait to get back to Firefox to see that as E-bay isn't compatible with Netscape 4 anymore. (techie bastards, said sotto voce) Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > Pat > Hmm. We used to buy the large Pactra bottles for 15¢ whilst Testors > were going for 10¢. The only problem experienced with Pactra was the > longer waiting time on drying. This of course was a major flaw when you > were trying to set speed records building kits. > These were the small Testors sized bottles from around 1963. Cast knobby glass (later they went to plastic bottles of the same design). What you did was get the bottle, pour the paint into another container, and then re-pour it back into the original bottle through a piece of fine screen to filter out the lumps. My older brother taught me that trick. > >> It wasn't until Pactra introduced their "Camouflage Colors" line of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Grey was way too light for WWII subjects but the OD was a revellation. > I later used the Terra Cotta for the exterior of my G8N1 Rita. "Steel" was a very useful color also. For once, you didn't have to mix silver and flat black. > > I'll have to wait to get back to Firefox to see that as E-bay isn't > compatible with Netscape 4 anymore. It's a very neat looking collector's item in good shape, the black and thinner bottles are empty, but all eight bottles are there, and the box looks in fairly good shape. At the moment, the bidding is at only $3.00. Pat Just got some Ambroid Pro-Weld from Micro-mark. I ordered it a couple months ago and got a post card saying it was unavailable. Then this week, I got an email saying it would arrive. Sure enough, I got it today! It looked like Pro-Weld was gone forever... now the question is if this is new stock or old stock that they just found!! ---- Stephen > will buy a bottle right away. so with this stuff you can pour out a > small pool of it to work with and it won't evaporate or start to cure > right away? > It doesn't pour out, it emerges from the end of the stainless steel tube like from the needle a hypodermic syringe when you gently squeeze the triangular plastic bottle. The bottle comes with a thin wire with a ring end on it to slide down the tube if it becomes plugged. Because the bottle is so good at dispensing the glue just where you want it in in just the amount you need, one bottle goes a very long way indeed. > Takes longer to dry - can it be held to get a certain tack to it so it > can hold a piece in place while it drys or do I have to hold it all > together until it starts working. One trick is to apply it to both surfaces to be glued, let it set for around 15-30 seconds and then press the two parts together. Another is to apply it to one surface to be glued, let it dry for a couple of minutes, then apply it to the other surface and place them immediately together. By and large though, it's a lot like working with traditional styrene tube cement but far more precise in its application, so it tends to less overall drying time because you don't get too much glue on the joint. A advantage and a warning about it though. Once dry, heat will make it soften again. This is great if you want to realign apart on the model that you noticed dried in the wrong position, like the alignment of a tail surface (it's also superb for assembling individual link styrene tank tracks, as you can glue them together flat along a straight edge, paint them, then heat them and wrap them around the tank's running gear while they are warm before the glue re-solidifies on cooling) But the downside is that if your finished model heats up too much, the glue is going to go soft. So if you set your Bf-109 in sunlight on a hot summer day, you may come back in a hour or so to find the landing gear has retracted, or that the struts on your Sopwith Camel are no longer attached to the wing. CA is better for both those situations where the part may be under stress of some sort once the model is done. Pat : evaporates quickly and cannot leave lid ajar to use it repeatedly Tenax, yes, without question. Even if the lid is "tight" it will pull a Houdini. It is also very "hot", and melts thin plastic. People clearly like it, but I think it is too hot and its bad bottle manners but it off my list. : comes with huge applicator brush Big problem with the Testors liquid cement. Use a natural bristle brush that is fairly cheap (not a synthetic, you might melt it in the glue!) or Tamiya Green label liquid cement has (again) a very nicely sized brush in the cap. Note that Tamiya stopped with the brush in the bottle for a bit, so check if you go this route. : not enough product attaches to toothpicks, etc to allow precision : placement Testors liquid(y) cement in the black bottle has, as has been mentioned, a needle applicator. You can also get a needle applicator for liquid glues, but I do not recomment it - the hyperdermic needle is so fine it can clog with glue. The brush route is the best way to compromise. : will run down the model if over applied Amoung other things. Which is why a good brush applicator is a good idea. Note that you need to change your technique, I expect, when applying liquid glue - the glue will "wick" around the seam on its own, except for the Testors black bottle stuff, which may be a good compromise before moving to a true liquid glue. Testors in the black bottle is excellent if you need to "fiddle" with a part, which is something most liquids will not give you much time to do. : what else ???? Well, you missed that liquid glues will disolve any model part that a gust of wind blows the instructions about, when the model part AND OPEN glue bottle are on the instruction sheet. Yeah, you know how I know this little factoid... : I've been a tube man since 1965.... Make me feel at ease with this : liquid stuff. One thing about liquid glues is their speed compared to a tube glue - no fillers, so they disolve the plastic quickly, and evaporate quickly. The Testors glue in the black bottle is more liquid than tube glu3, but it is pretty viscous in comparison to any "true" liquid glue. I use the Tamiya liquid with the green label and the Testors black bottle glue primarily. If I am very happy with the alignment, or want a fast "tack", I will use the Tamiya. If I need to fiddle, or I am concerned with the strength (think weld penetration depth), I will use the Testors. Small parts - Tamiya. Good, secure bond without a mess. With the Testors, you can squeeze a bit too much out of the bottle. Narrow gap - I will try to close it with Tamiya, as it will generally flow (capillary action) down into the gap, while most glues and or fillers will sit on top of the gap. Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes I make a very nice little liquid glue applicator. I go to the drug store and purchase large bore syringes. In the 'states, you can get the pink or the green package (they're color coded) BD syringes. Not insulin syringes.. too damn small. Also make sure it's not the 'one use' kind; they have a little styrene thing in the barrel that will be attacked by the liquid cement. I nip off the tip of the needle itself, then file the end so it's very blunt. Using an auger that I made from a heavy pin (actually sharpened probe from a dissecting kit) I open up the hole and file it all smooth. Repeat as necessary. Depress the plunger, immerse the tip in liquid glue, then pull back on the plunger to suck in glue. Apply by gently depressing the plunger. Practice with it a bit before committing to a kit you care about. These syringes go for about 25-35 cents each. Eventually the nylon/rubber (whatever the material) shoe on the plunger puffs up and you have to toss that barrel. Keep the needle though; it's got a bayonet mount so you just plop that on a new barrel/plunger. If the tip of the needle gets gooped up with styrene, and it may, just soak it in liquid glue a bit...it'll dissolve it away. I demonstrated how to make this tool at a meeting of NorthWest Scale Modelers in Seattle. I asked anyone with a sweep second hand to time it. Taking the syringe out of the package, nipping the tip, filing it down, and reaming out the needle took 35 seconds. Maybe I should put that demonstration on YouTube. Handy stuff!! (and no, you don't need a prescription to buy them. Not in Washington State anyway) --- Stephen > Okay, gonna take the plunge and give it a try. Reasons why I avoided > it, whether accurate or not is debatable: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Craig I'm an old fart but I haven't used tube glue in decades. You just have to play with it a little, keeping in mind that it melts the plastic to weld it together. I use an O size paintbrush for application. When I'm gluing something "big" I apply a coat to the mating surfaces. Wait about a minute. Then apply a second coat and slap em together. "Capillary Action" is all you need to glue quite a few items. That means you hold the parts together, get them just the way you want them, then touch the brush to the seam and it runs down and gets into everything. Use a clamp to hold til dry. One important thing to know is that if it does run off down the side of the model--DON'T TOUCH IT. Just let it dry. Unless you really spilled a lot of it, it won't cause any serious harm, unless you try to wipe it off! |
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