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Model Forum / General / Models / November 2007Aircraft Markings: An Educated Guess
If I have two source of color reference. say Flying Colors, although there are many more books of side references for aircraft, along with use of a book of national insignia design types and positions, is it fair to say that one has enough information to model an aircraft based on a color side view and knowledge of insignia policy for the wings? Is it too much of a guess that the markings on one side such as kill markings or personal name markings are found on both fuselage sides? I realize caution markings would be unique to the structure of the machine. TIA AC >If I have two source of color reference. say Flying Colors, although >there are many more books of side references for aircraft, along with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >markings or personal name markings are found on both fuselage sides? I >realize caution markings would be unique to the structure of the Depends on the aircraft - especially period. In WWII, camouflage patterns were extremely standardised. One Spitfire camo job was virtually identical to another of the same year. There were variations by aircraft type and different patterns for the same aircraft (especially the Luftwaffe!!!), but if you know what pattern a specific aircraft carried, it's pretty safe to copy it from another illustration of the same. But in WWI all bets are off! I'm just looking at some Osprey Aircraft of the Aces, and very few aircraft have the same markings on the wings (where shown at all - mostly the books just show profiles). National insignia, yes, were standardised (for a given year). Kill markings were usually on one side only, except in some schemes (Luftwaffe rudder markings, I think, were on both sides). Personal names or insignia could be on one or both sides - some had different markings on port & Starboard (Memphis Belle, I believe, had two different young ladies on display). Basically, your answer is, yes, it's too much of a guess. But narrow your field down a bit and you can get a more detailed answer. Wulf > But in WWI all bets are off! I'm just looking at some Osprey Aircraft > of the Aces, and very few aircraft have the same markings on the wings > (where shown at all - mostly the books just show profiles). National > insignia, yes, were standardised (for a given year). Osprey as well has its problems with accuracy. Their early books on Soviet aces came under criticism for color choices. There's a plane in one said to be the F4U of a Navy ace on the evidence of him being photographed in front of it. But I've seen the same plane as a backdrop for a four man flight posed similarly, which makes me think they set up the camera and started taking pictures one day. Flying Colors is an old favorite of mine,and I've used it for painting ideas dozens of times,but I still prefer to get some idea of topside schemes and what differences,if any,there were on the opposite side.There's no such thing as too many references! > If I have two source of color reference. say Flying Colors, although > there are many more books of side references for aircraft, along with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > AC Bottom line is that any panting, drawing, etc. presents the artist's rendition of what he is portraying. Photos, as long as they are not retouched, show the reality. Unfortunately they don't always show enough of the reality. "Memphis Belle", mentoned above, had the same painting of a girl in a swimsuit on either side of the nose, but one had a red suite, the other blue. When I worked on the film "Memphis Belle" the continuity people wouldn't accept the photographic evidence. They wanted one color on both sides. Fortunately the director's chief assistant listened and the colors were done properly. The B-24 "Dragon and His Tail" is another example. A couple of after- market decal companies have presented the paintng on both sides. I had spoken with the original photographer about this and he stated flatly that the left side of the fuselage had no dragon. When Collings Foundatiion painted their bird on one side only they got grief from self-proclaimed "experts" about the panting on one side only. Despite a widespread reward no photo of the left side ever appeared. The surviving crew members also have stated that the "Dragon" was on the right side only. Our MAI Research Service has helped hundreds of people with accuracy problems for their models over the years. Many surprises have crept up in that perod of tme. Tom > Flying Colors is an old favorite of mine,and I've used it for painting > ideas dozens of times,but I still prefer to get some idea of topside [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Show quoted text - maiesm72@netscape.com said the following on 23/11/2007 03:44: > Bottom line is that any panting, drawing, etc. presents the artist's > rendition of what he is portraying. Photos, as long as they are not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > color on both sides. Fortunately the director's chief assistant > listened and the colors were done properly. Instead of a block font for the words they used a script form didn't they? I heard the story of the wrong typeface on that one. Real! <http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ommons/thumb/6/62/Memphis_Belle_crew.jpg/761px-Memphis_Belle_crew.jpg&imgrefurl= http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Memphis_Belle_crew.jpg&h=600&w=761&sz=11 5&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=Je2VC4dwGE8u2M:&tbnh=112&tbnw=142&prev=/images%3Fq%3D memphis%2Bbelle%2B%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channe l%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26hs%3Dfpp%26sa%3DG> Film! <http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ommons/thumb/5/5f/Memphis_Belle_movie_logo..jpg/800px-Memphis_Belle_movie_logo.. jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Memphis_Belle_movie_logo.. jpg&h=527&w=800&sz=44&hl=en&start=10&um=1&tbnid=4cOcbGUYobe4AM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=143 &prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmemphis%2Bbelle%2Bfilm%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cli ent%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26hs%3Db9U%26sa %3DG> > The B-24 "Dragon and His Tail" is another example. A couple of after- > market decal companies have presented the paintng on both sides. I had [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Tom All great stuff and to my mind the research is what adds to making a model. Richard. (snip) > All great stuff and to my mind the research is what adds to making a model. > > Richard. I highly recommend the Jeffery Ethell books to anyone who hasn't seen them. Beautiful full color photos from WWII. Very enlightening! The site: http://www.ethell.com/jethell/homepage.htm on 11/23/2007 4:57 AM Richard Brooks said the following: > maiesm72@netscape.com said the following on 23/11/2007 03:44: >> Bottom line is that any panting, drawing, etc. presents the artist's [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Film! > <http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ommons/thumb/5/5f/Memphis_Belle_movie_logo..jpg/800px-Memphis_Belle_movie_logo.. jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Memphis_Belle_movie_logo.. jpg&h=527&w=800&sz=44&hl=en&start=10&um=1&tbnid=4cOcbGUYobe4AM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=143 &prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmemphis%2Bbelle%2Bfilm%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cli ent%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26hs%3Db9U%26sa %3DG> Not to mention this G model copy in Scotland. http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/leuchars/rafleucharsairshow/images.html >> The B-24 "Dragon and His Tail" is another example. A couple of after- >> market decal companies have presented the paintng on both sides. I had [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Richard.  SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @ On Nov 23, 1:57 am, Richard Brooks <richardbro...@vickers- supermarine.com> wrote: > maies...@netscape.com said the following on 23/11/2007 03:44: > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Laziness in the font, size and placement of the markings were not the worst of it. Bare handed crew at 30 angles leaning on the fuselage while chatting away next to an open waist window wth no mikes. You should have seen some of the things that we talked them out of ! On the other hand, they dd follow a lot of our suggestions. A good case in point was the use of crude body armor and helmets by some of the crew. Tom |
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