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HO Scale "Ratte" giant tank

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Pat Flannery - 13 Jan 2008 05:57 GMT
I may have mentioned this in a earlier thread, but thought it might be
interesting to repost it as a separate thread for anyone that missed it.
Now, this is one wild project - the German "Ratte" 1,000 tonne supertank
scratch-built in 1/87th scale.
Here's the translated versions of the webpages:
http://tinyurl.com/3c67sb
http://tinyurl.com/3y857b
Someone should really do one of these in 1/35 scale.
If they can do the Dora 800 mm railway gun, they can do this. :-)

Pat
RobG - 13 Jan 2008 06:28 GMT
Interesting. And ya gotta love the translation machine...

' According to the sparse jellyfish, it should be a monster '

Eh?

RobG
(The Aussie one)
Pat Flannery - 13 Jan 2008 07:29 GMT
> Interesting. And ya gotta love the translation machine...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>  

"They who are called Nazis, they go the Stalingrad?"
Okay, Google's working on their page translation program, it still has a
few whale tails in it. :-D
Let's see what Babelfish does with it (BTW, I'm presently watching
Hitchhikers Guide To the Galaxy on the Sci-Fi Channel).
Page one:

"Land cruiser P-1000 rat (1/87)
Who believed so far the fact that the military-technical giantism of the
Nazis with projects was exhausted like the Dora cannon or the mouse
which must itself a better instruct let; because in June 1942 the
company Krupp Hitler submitted its plans for the P-1000. Behind the
designation the project of a heavy armored vehicle hid itself to 1,000
tons. Late equipment considered by Hitler with the Suggestivnamen rat
should carry a rotating turret of the war navy with two 28-cm cannons
than main armament. During maximum elevation a range of fire should have
been achieved by 42,5 km. Further were intended as armament: 1 x 12.8 cm
cannon, 8 x 20mm Flak 38 and 2 x 15mm Mauser mg 151/15.
If one believes the meager Quallen, then the monster should have a
length of 35m, width of of 14m and a height of 11m. For motorizing two
possibilities were discussed: Either two MAN V12Z32/44 24-Zylinder
marine diesel with ever 8,500 HP or eight Daimler Benz MB501 20-cylinder
marine diesel with ever 2,000 HP. Under these conditions and considering
the 3,6m broad chain drive assemblies was a cruising speed of approx..
40 km/h calculated."

Page two:

"On the idea, which came project 1000, which never out-came in the
reality over project sketches to realize on a scale 1/87 as model
Wolfgang Diebl already before approximately 10 years. At that time the
magazine model fan published a 2 centimeters large design, which
illustrated the P-1000 on a scale 1/188. It increased the picture on DIN
A4. From the number of castors, the well-known masses of the tower of a
battle ship of the crowd refuge class as well as from the size
comparison on the design Wolfgang the mass of its model project derived
illustrated VOLKSWAGEN of excavator bucket. When the company brought in
the year 2003 a carrying bill car to Trix with a marine diesel engine
from metal pressure pouring on the market, also a halfway fitting engine
was available.
The discussion with a model construction colleague encouraged Wolfgang
in the idea, its Fantasie area to give and the model project to actually
realize. The tub and developing manufactured he from 2mm strong plastics
Sheets. The chassis developed from 3mm brass tubes and the castors of a
hunt tiger model of the yardstick 1/35. He discovered the metal chain at
a company in Hungary. The gun barrels (28cm) were turned after after an
original design from aluminum. The two Flak Hecktuerme come E100 armored
AAA vehicle of kind master.
In order to represent the transport of the P-1000 in a Diorama, Wolfgang
developed further three-part diesel locomotives, transportation chassis
and a large crane to the engine change, which is however still in the
building."

The model does leave one big question. How the hell was this thing to
get from wherever it was built to where it was supposed to be used?
Unlike the Dora railway gun, you can't disassemble this thing into
component parts and ship it around by train, so I assume it literally
crawls its way under its own power to where it's needed.
No matter what they say, I can't actually picture this behemoth crawling
around at 40 km/h, which would make it faster than a Kingtiger tank
traveling on a smooth surface (35 -38 km/h)
To put it mildly, its movement will be obvious from the air, and you
should be able to spot it via a Norden bombsight on a B-17 at high altitude.
I imagine how could cover it with foliage and make it appear to be a
small grove of trees during the day, while only having it move during
the night., but when's the last time you saw a small grove of trees with
two huge tread marks leading into it on one side and nothing emerging
from it on the other side?
That's bound to arouse suspicion.
Just on a lark, and actually assuming it was moving at 40 k/hr, it would
take it it a tad over 40 hours to crawl from Berlin to Moscow (1,607 km).
This wouldn't include the the two-day pauses when the treads broke and
needed to be repaired by the ten Bergkoenigstigerschrittreparaturpanzers
following it around. ;-)

Pat
kim - 13 Jan 2008 17:32 GMT
>> Interesting. And ya gotta love the translation machine...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
> treads broke and needed to be repaired by the ten
> Bergkoenigstigerschrittreparaturpanzers following it around. ;-)

At the time the project was being considered, the allies didn't yet have
total air superiority. A clue as to where the deigners thought its weakness
lays is the placement of the secondary armament turrets. They obviously
thought it was vulnerable to attack from the sides and rear.

(kim)
Pat Flannery - 13 Jan 2008 20:42 GMT
> At the time the project was being considered, the allies didn't yet have
> total air superiority. A clue as to where the deigners thought its weakness
> lays is the placement of the secondary armament turrets. They obviously
> thought it was vulnerable to attack from the sides and rear.
>
>  

Oh, the diorama you could do with one of those in 1/72 scale.
This Sherman tank crew following these huge tread marks up to this mass
of foliage with two gun barrels sticking out the front of it where they
can't see them.

Pat
willshak - 13 Jan 2008 17:59 GMT
on 1/13/2008 2:29 AM Pat Flannery said the following:

>> Interesting. And ya gotta love the translation machine...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>
> Pat

Not to mention the 1000 or so fuel trucks following it.

Signature

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Pat Flannery - 13 Jan 2008 21:30 GMT
>> Just on a lark, and actually assuming it was moving at 40 k/hr, it
>> would take it it a tad over 40 hours to crawl from Berlin to Moscow
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Not to mention the 1000 or so fuel trucks following it.
Giant reeled hose leading all the way back to Germany. :-)
The design for it I read about was supposed to be driven by four U-Boat
engines, so maybe it could actually carry enough fuel in it to move
quite a distance.
There seems to be no real agreement on the details of this vehicle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte
http://www.kensingtonbooks.com/finditem.cfm?itemid=9384
Here's another take on it; a painting of a deployed one:
http://www.panzernet.net/panzernet/fotky/tanky/prototypy/035.jpg
Bruce Burden - 14 Jan 2008 03:44 GMT
: Giant reeled hose leading all the way back to Germany. :-)
: The design for it I read about was supposed to be driven by four U-Boat
: engines, so maybe it could actually carry enough fuel in it to move
: quite a distance.

    You probably can estimate fuel "milage" based on the NASA
   crawler, which IIRC is 4 gallons to the mile. It is powered
   by two FM diesels.

    The NASA crawler would be an interesting model. The Rat,
   not so much.

                            Bruce
Signature

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "I like bad!"                         Bruce Burden    Austin, TX.
       - Thuganlitha
       The Power and the Prophet
       Robert Don Hughes

Pat Flannery - 14 Jan 2008 08:10 GMT
Bruce Burden wrote::
>     You probably can estimate fuel "milage" based on the NASA
>     crawler, which IIRC is 4 gallons to the mile. It is powered
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>     not so much.
>  

Actually, the P-1500 self-propelled 800 mm gun almost looks like the
NASA crawler concept as far a tread layout goes:
http://www.panzerschreck.de/panzer/pzkpfw/p1500.html
http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/superheavy/p1500.html
Now, what we should have built is a tank housing our 280 mm Atomic Cannon.
Just for fun, we could also make the tank atomic powered, like some of
the designs for atomic powered tanks that came out of the 1950s.
If we made it amphibious, it could swim and crawl all the way from the
east coast to Moscow. :-D

Pat
willshak - 14 Jan 2008 14:49 GMT
on 1/13/2008 10:44 PM Bruce Burden said the following:

> : Giant reeled hose leading all the way back to Germany. :-)
> : The design for it I read about was supposed to be driven by four U-Boat
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>     by two FM diesels.
>  

The NASA crawler burns ~150 gallons to the mile.
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/crawler.html

"When they were built, the KSC crawlers were the largest tracked
vehicles ever made. (/Surpassed by the Bagger 288 German excavator
<http://www.wisoveg.de/rheinbraun/rb-bg-17022001lnk.html>/). They move
the Mobile Launcher Platform
<http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/mlp.html> into the Vehicle
Assembly Building <http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/vab.html> and
then to the Launch Pad
<http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html> with an assembled
space vehicle. Maximum speed is 1.6km (one mile) per hour loaded, about
3.2 km (2 miles) per hour unloaded. Launch Pad
<http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html> to VAB
<http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/vab.html> trip time with the
Mobile Launch Platform <http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/mlp.html>
is about 5 hours. The crawler burns 568 liters (150 gallons) of diesel
oil per mile."

>     The NASA crawler would be an interesting model. The Rat,
>     not so much.
>
>                             Bruce
>  

Signature

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Kim M - 15 Jan 2008 01:51 GMT
> on 1/13/2008 10:44 PM Bruce Burden said the following:
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> In Hamptonburgh, NY
> To email, remove the double zeroes after @
"but when's the last time you saw a small grove of trees with
two huge tread marks leading into it on one side and nothing emerging
from it on the other side? "

Birnham Wood?
Pat Flannery - 15 Jan 2008 11:55 GMT
> "but when's the last time you saw a small grove of trees with
> two huge tread marks leading into it on one side and nothing emerging
> from it on the other side? "
>
> Birnham Wood?
>  

Or when the Orcs go running into Fangorn forest, which may have been
inspired by Shakespeare's
Birnam Wood scene.

Pat
Bruce Burden - 15 Jan 2008 04:52 GMT
: The NASA crawler burns ~150 gallons to the mile.
: http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/crawler.html

    Nice links, thanks. I guess I was a tad off in my fuel
   milage estimates. :-)

                            Bruce
Signature

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "I like bad!"                         Bruce Burden    Austin, TX.
       - Thuganlitha
       The Power and the Prophet
       Robert Don Hughes

someone@some.domain - 15 Jan 2008 05:56 GMT
>: The NASA crawler burns ~150 gallons to the mile.
>: http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/crawler.html
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>                                                        Bruce

geez, it's like my van. figures, it's ex military.
 
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