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Model Forum / General / Models / March 2008Can somebody suggest better airbrush for camo?
Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told the guy at D&J Hobby, he said "that's because the Paasche is an air- hog." I think I know what he means: whenever I try to spray in small patterns, the pressure is higher than I would like it it to be and hence a lot more paint goes a lot farther than I would like. Does anybody have a suggestion for an airbrush more suited to painting freehand camo on models? What do you use, and are you satisfied with the results? Have you tried other kinds? Thanks a lot. > Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model > painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > freehand camo on models? What do you use, and are you satisfied with > the results? Have you tried other kinds? Thanks a lot. Sounds like what you need is a pressure regulator - I'd try that first before buying another brush. However, if that doesn't help - I've always been partial to Badgers.  Signature- Rufus >> Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model >> painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >However, if that doesn't help - I've always been partial to Badgers. thanks rufus, that's what i was trying to reccomend. best thing since.....well, almost. >>> Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model >>> painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > thanks rufus, that's what i was trying to reccomend. best thing > since.....well, almost. I had one stashed away for a long time before I actually started using it - and believing in it. Didn't think it would make that big a diff on my little diaphragm compressor, but it does. Signature- Rufus >>>> Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model >>>> painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >it - and believing in it. Didn't think it would make that big a diff on >my little diaphragm compressor, but it does. i have a garage compressor. home garage, one lunger, don't know the tank size but it will fill truck tires. slowly. the regulator really helps. > > Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model > > painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > - Rufus I agree. Pressure settings are crucial. I use a different pressure for gloss versus matt, for instance. I shoot matt at just under 20 psi, gloss at 15. Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not one of those little chincy coin-separator looking things you guys are probably using...but apparently I'm not describing my problem well enough. If I turn down the air pressure to where I would like it, even the thinnest of paints won't get picked up and sprayed. The "throat" of this airbrush is wide, so what little air pressure that might work well in a different airbrush probably wouldn't work at all in mine. (Get it? "Air hog?") So air pressure is not my problem, see? Perhaps I'm on the wrong group, but I was hoping to get an experienced free-hand camo-painter to answer my question. Thanks again for everybody's advice. Somebody suggests above cutting pressure down to 5 psi. Is there such an airbrush that would pick up paint with that little pressure? That's probably the one I'm searching for. (Otherwise, the 5 psi idea is ludicrous, in my limited experience.) Eric > Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air > compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not > one of those little chincy coin-separator looking things you guys are > probably using...but apparently I'm not describing my problem well > enough. Just because the regulator on the compressor says 50lbs, doesn't mean you're getting 50lbs at the airbrush input. If your hose/piping is long enough, it may be worth building a simple inline pressure guage you can quick-attach to the airbrush, dial the regulator at the compressor end until you get the air pressure you want at the airbrush, then you can detach the guage. A t-pipe with the guage and quick release bits on either end along with quick release on the airbrush and line would allow presure checks. I've seen this done by 1:1 spraybooth guys to make sure the input to the spray gun was correct. [snip] > Somebody suggests above cutting pressure down to 5 psi. Is there such > an airbrush that would pick up paint with that little pressure? > That's probably the one I'm searching for. (Otherwise, the 5 psi idea > is ludicrous, in my limited experience.) I have a badger crescendo and a badger 200. I've successfully sprayed thinned Tamiya acrylic paints with psi around 8-12 lbs. My compressor came with a regulator/guage where the guage goes up to like 100 lbs, but is measured in 5lb increments. Not soon after, I went to a welding shop and bought a pressure regulator that has single PSI increments on it. Since it only goes to 40 or 50lbs, I am careful not to let it get above 40lbs (so I don't damage it). The regulator cost under $20. John Signatureratfood@food.skaterat.net All foods should be removed to reply Thanks, John, I appreciate your answer as well as your ability to address the question being asked. Might I ask if you've airbrushed camo freehand on your models [and I assume came away happy]? > Thanks, John, I appreciate your answer as well as your ability to > address the question being asked. Might I ask if you've airbrushed > camo freehand on your models [and I assume came away happy]? I have not yet done any freehand camo. But I don't expect any troubles since I've practiced drawing fine lines under low pressure and had no issues doing so even with the medium needles/tips. Signatureratfood@food.skaterat.net All foods should be removed to reply Thank you to everybody who spent the time to advise me. I'm starting to second-guess my Craftsman regular that goes up to 120+ pounds...it doesn't show 1 lb. increments. Thanks, Bert and Dave. I'm using a size 3, never tried the others. Thanks for the Badger links, I'm going to check 'em out. Thank you as well Serge for mentioning the gravity-feed. That makes simple sense, actually. on 3/14/2008 12:53 PM Eric Bragas said the following: > Thank you to everybody who spent the time to advise me. I'm starting > to second-guess my Craftsman regular that goes up to 120+ pounds...it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > gravity-feed. That makes simple sense, actually. > Check the Badger 360. The paint feeder rotates 360º so that it can be used as a gravity feed or siphon feed. SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @ >Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air >compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Eric my stand along regulatir is no where near "chincy" it regulates air to small tolerances and is 20 years old. In article <a45db75c-690f-408c-9b2b-7d9255d120c0 @s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, ericbragas@yahoo.com says... > Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air > compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not > one of those little chincy coin-separator looking things you guys are > probably using...but apparently I'm not describing my problem well > enough. FWIW, we run six different airbrushes off our setup. It includes a 280 litres compressor with its own regulator/oil/moisture trap and one "little chincy coin-separator looking thing" plus one separate moisture trap for _each_ airbrush. The different regulators serve different purposes, if you use your airbrush off a garage-type compressor, you have to have both, period. As for the airbrush, in the last 15 years I've tried almost every single-action and double-action internal mix airbrush available from Aztec, Badger, Iwata, Paasche, T&C, Harder&Steenbeck, and a bunch of other brands you probably never heard about. And I still have to find one that I would be unable to airbrush small cammo detail with. So, again: - install a _small_ 5-50 PSI pressure regulator; - check that you're not trying to airbrush small detail with a #3 or #5 nozzle; - check that tip and needle sizes match; - check that tip and neddle aren't damaged. If that doesn't solve your problem, get a gravity-fed airbrush. Top feed airbrushes need slightly (read: _very_ slightly) less pressure. And if you still can't get the results you want, get yourself some airbrushing lessons. > If I turn down the air pressure to where I would like it, even the > thinnest of paints won't get picked up and sprayed. The "throat" of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > free-hand camo-painter to answer my question. Thanks again for > everybody's advice. Hint: if the answer to your question isn't what you expected, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is wrong. Signature-sdg "Un gromono, mon royaume pour un gromono!" Shakespeare - Richard III > Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air > compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Eric Yeah - my Badgers. But it still sounds like something is basicly wrong with yours that might be fixed with a proper cleaning and/or adjustment. Signature- Rufus Eric Bragas <ericbragas@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a45db75c-690f-408c- 9b2b-7d9255d120c0@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com: > Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air > compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Eric I'd have to check to be precise, but with properly thinned paint I can shoot with pressures below 10 psi with my airbrush. My favorite being my trusty old Badger 100G. Gravity/top fed airbrushes seem to need lower pressure then suction/bottom fed airbrushes. I don't know what you have envisioned for camo scheme, but I bet I can get a rather decent camo scheme with the right pressure and properly thinned paint with a "Revell starter set" I've taken a look at the Paasche VL instructions and it says it needs 20-55 psi so that confirms the "Air Hog" part. Make sure you use at least the #3 tip preferrably the #1 tip for free hand camo. The #5 tip is waaaaay to large for painting any camo on any model smaller than 1/16th scale. Be absolutely sure your needle and nozzle are squeeky clean and not damaged (even the slightest damage will result in a very untidy spray). Soak them overnight in acetone if need be. Also check and be absolutly sure that you use the right tip with the right nozzle. This should take care of things, if not, you probably should start looking for another airbrush. As I said I have (several) brushes and I really like the Badger 100G http://www.badger-airbrush.com/airbrush.htm For fine to medium work And a Revell (originally VEGA, I think) Vario Masterclass: http://www.revell.de/katalog/400/39202.JPG For rather fine to large works Both are very good airbrushes. HTH SignatureCheers, Bert-Jan > Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air > compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Eric Thin the paints some more. I have never found a paint in the bottle ready for airbrushing without further thinning. I thin Testors enamel about 1:1, acrylics (I seld om airbrush acrlyics) about 1:4 thinner/ paint. in article a45db75c-690f-408c-9b2b-7d9255d120c0@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com, Eric Bragas at ericbragas@yahoo.com wrote on 3/12/08 1:09 PM: > Thank you, everybody, but I already have a regulator one on my air > compressor. I have a garage-type compressor with its own regular, not [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Eric I recently bought a Paasche VJR (double action/gravity feed -- small paint cup on top like an Iwata B), mainly to do camouflage, because it has a smaller tip diameter than my Badger and because it was reasonably priced. I've been quite happy with it, and I'm getting tighter color separations than I could before. One thing I've recently read about is using MORE air pressure -- let's say at least 20 psi -- for finer lines. It works. The logic is that with more air pressure, the needle may be retracted less and the paint thinned less and still have paint flow. This means a tighter pattern and less likelihood of spatters. Pip Moss I have the same airbrush. I like it but freehand camo is indeed difficult (for me), even with a #1 tip/needle. I think the real issue here is gravity feed vs. suction feed. From reading this group (and other sources), I get the impression that gravity fed brushes can sustain lower air pressures and hence can be more accurate for fine detail. I've been thinking of getting either a badger or iwata gravity- fed brush... -- david > I have the same airbrush. I like it but freehand camo is indeed > difficult (for me), even with a #1 tip/needle. I think the real issue [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- david At the risk of repeating myself, try your airbrush with a HIGHER pressure and less thinner. You'll be able to get paint flow with the needle less retracted (thus finer line) and less risk of spatters. Pip Moss I'll try that. Thanks much. -- david >Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model >painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >freehand camo on models? What do you use, and are you satisfied with >the results? Have you tried other kinds? Thanks a lot. you can get one of those step down pressure things at harbor freight on sale. hook it up and dial down the pressure. i forget wjat they're called but they have two chamber and guages plus a knob to alter pressure. i got on for $20 on sale, the fittings and adapters were another $12 and you can cut the pressure to 5 lbs. In article <a10ba44f-a1b3-4719-8957- f1ae3ff45d9a@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, ericbragas@yahoo.com says... > Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model > painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told > the guy at D&J Hobby, he said "that's because the Paasche is an air- > hog." I think I know what he means: whenever I try to spray in small > patterns, the pressure is higher than I would like it it to be What he means is that for a given pressure, the VL uses slightly more air than average. With a big stress on "slightly". Now, if you think that air pressure is higher than what you want it to be, what you need is a pressure regulator, not another airbrush. Signature-sdg "Un gromono, mon royaume pour un gromono!" Shakespeare - Richard III >In article <a10ba44f-a1b3-4719-8957- >f1ae3ff45d9a@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, ericbragas@yahoo.com says... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Now, if you think that air pressure is higher than what you want it to >be, what you need is a pressure regulator, not another airbrush. eggsackly! In article <a10ba44f-a1b3-4719-8957-f1ae3ff45d9a@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > Hello, I have a Paasche VL that I didn't originally purchase for model > painting, and it's been difficult to paint camo freehand. When I told [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > freehand camo on models? What do you use, and are you satisfied with > the results? Have you tried other kinds? Thanks a lot. The VL is a very versatile airbrush but requires a lot of skill to use. I'd suggest practicing with it to learn all its ins and outs. I'd wonder about your air source; when I switched from a Paasche H to a Paasche VL, I was using a diaphragm compressor with no tank. It didn't work; you could see the pulsation from the compressor with the VL that you couldn't see with the H. That's how much more fine you can get with it. It sounds like you're taking it to the next level. This means also getting a constant source of air with a fine regulator (as others have said). Once you're good at it, the VL will not let you down. (for the record, I put my VL away semi-permanently; I'm now using an Iwata single action internal mix brush and feel it's adequate for my needs) ---- Stephen > In article > <a10ba44f-a1b3-4719-8957-f1ae3ff45d9a@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>freehand camo on models? What do you use, and are you satisfied with >>the results? Have you tried other kinds? Thanks a lot. Although I now have an Iwata double action airbrush, I used to use a VL. It's a fine airbrush and should do anything you need. I never thought of it as an air hog, but you can get pulsing in the paint stream if you use the large needle with one of the usual airbrush compressors. What size needle are you using? There are several sizes, and for camo, you will need one of the smaller, if not the smallest size. Cheers, Dave Ambrose |
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