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Model Forum / General / Models / May 2008A reason why the Raiden has never shown up again in 1/32?
its all over the place in 1/48. It took Hasegawa almost 40 years to do the Hein in 1/32, How much longer for the Raiden? We need to stop passing around the old Revell kits.... Hey Trumpeter, if you can put pontoons on a Spitfire, a kit that what, 1 person would want, you can release the Raiden... Craig I have found over the years that some kits get made simply because of the availability of drawings or a version in a local museum, and sometimes we get kits with the best guesses of the museum staff on restoration incorporated in the details of the model. Val Kraut > its all over the place in 1/48. It took Hasegawa almost 40 years to > do the Hein in 1/32, How much longer for the Raiden? We need to stop [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Craig > I have found over the years that some kits get made simply because of the > availability of drawings or a version in a local museum, and sometimes we [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > Craig I suspect it's a matter of economics for Revell. They just don't feel that they'll sell well enough to bother with. That being said, with Revell you just never know… Of course, if Trumpeter brings it out, it would be out of my price range anyway. >> I have found over the years that some kits get made simply because of the >> availability of drawings or a version in a local museum, and sometimes we [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Of course, if Trumpeter brings it out, it would be out of my price >range anyway. My question is, many plastic modellers have the skills to do a complete makeover of a turkey of a commercial kit to make it something of museum quality. With the prices of many kits these days in the more than $100 range why not scratch build it out of wood, metals, vacuum formed styrene, plastics, etc. And if you can do that how about making molds for resin and soft metal casting and sell those as semi-kits. >>> I have found over the years that some kits get made simply because of the >>> availability of drawings or a version in a local museum, and sometimes we [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > about making molds for resin and soft metal casting and sell those as > semi-kits. I think there is an underlying issue regarding who will buy what. I am a huge fan of the SBD. If I want one is 1/32 I can spend $90 to $110 USD to buy a Trumpy of probably $10 for the old Matchbox kit or $20 for the Revell boxing and if I want a -3 I van give Jerry Rutman $20 for a corrected cowl and prop. Since I already have a Matchnox all I need is the Rutman backdate for $20. I also do not have unlimited time for the build I can go 257 parts, PE with film parts or I don't know how many for the MB but clearly less than half. I've seen very nice builds of these, with some scratch buildiong that can be magnificient. I don't know anout everyone else but I just can't see dropping $100 on a model. Nor can the younger crowd who we want to get involved. I fail to grasp why the basic economics of this escapes people. Trump has some nice stuff but it is unlikely one will ever sit on my unless I win it in a raffle of snag a Hobby Lobby 40% off special (Like my 1/350 USS Lex that was mismarked to P thinl $7o, I had a 40% off and convinces SWMBO oneyed it would be the perfect Christmas present). I was very excited about Hase 1/32 Stuka. I already have 2 or 3 Revell kits nut I bought the first release G for about $40. Same for a T-bolt, under $50 for a Hase, around $20 for a Revell, $90+ for a Trump with 462 parts plus PE, film and metal parts. Who has that kind of time? While accurate kits are appreciated you are running away from the entry level at a high rate of speed and frankly turning off the old timers like me. Frank > While accurate kits are appreciated you are running away from the entry level > at a high rate of speed and frankly turning off the old timers like me. > > Frank you are right. seems like it is Trumpeter who is leading the way now, but who is making the affordable 1/32 airplane kits like Revell did that made it possible for us as kids to get hooked on this hobby? It appears that 1000 pieces is going to become the standard, and for those are not aiming for museum pieces (me) are going to be overwhelmed. Is a 75-100 piece 1/32 really that bad? Craig >> While accurate kits are appreciated you are running away from the entry >> level at a high rate of speed and frankly turning off the old timers [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Craig It's not just the 1/32 but they all seem to be getting quite expensive and complex. Even 1/48 sorcraft and 1/35 armor are getting absurd. Dragon's kits seem to exceed 500 parts already regularly. I rreally think people look at that and say forget it. Yeah people are buying them but I get the imrpession that it is really the super dedicated types. I just want to build paint and display. I'll superdetail when it suits me, OOB when it doesn't. But you can't have these kits and expect to get kids interested, not at these prices and parts counts. It's just overwhelming and if you cock it up you're out a pile of money. You still need the Airfix/Monogram/Linberg/Revell cheap/low parts cout kits to get kids interested. You could redo them a bit to improve fit maybe to give a beter result in some cases but still of you give a kid an $8 airplane and it comes out decently he'll be hooked. On the 1/32 stuff I only remember doing 2 as a kid the Revell Hurri and the FW 190. But they were special cause they were big and you could make 'em look nice (I cut my teeth on Humbrol with those bad boys, too) And now I have a pile of the old Revell 1/32 with some Hase's, too with the Tomy/whoever 1/32 A6M2. Except for the JU-87G1 none was over $20 second hand. Spits of various marks, Hurris MkI and MkII, Typhoons, Bueafort, Mosquito, F3F, F4B, BF2C, F9C, Wildcat, Hellcat, Dauntless, Corsair, P-12, P-26, P-35, P-38, P-47B&D, P-51B&D, a Schwarm of 109s, FWs, BF-110s, Stukas, a Twenty Century MC-202, Zeros, Oscar, etc. Would I trade any 5 of these for a Trump kit? Any 4? 3? Would I get the Trump kit done with all the fiddlies? Would it give me the same satisfaction to finish 3, 4 or 5 decent looking airplanes that will probaly hang from the ceiling anyway or labor long and hard to maybe complete the 1 Trump with working ailerons that may be beyond a lot of modellers to make (PE hinges, for pete sake) and which I'll resent having paid for if I don't use them? I have Matchbox, Lindberg, Airfix and (reboxed) Frog 1/72 aircraft kits on the table and partial builds I'm going to finally finish queued up just to get back up to speed. I've got a nice selection airbrushes I want to work throught to find the best for a particular situation and other filling/sanding techniques to work out. I know they are not wholly accurate or detailed but these are the kits I started with AND THEY ARE FUN!! And if I cock it up, well they are cheap. I also have a Dragon Jagdpanther and Tiger I with zimmerit on the bench, Tiger needs a little rub down and then they both will get thier dark yellow base. They ere inexpensive, but the fit in some cases is annoying and the "metal cables" which they so proudly announced on the box top don't really fit in the provided shackles, Which is why the Tiger is getting rubbed down the half plastic/half metal top deck tow cable was a bit disappointing. Of course they re zimmed which was the attraction even if the instructions are vague, the parentage of the Tiger is in doubt - odd mix of features - and the instructions seem to indicate that I need to paint the tyres on the steel wheels. Anyway the point here is in some ways things haven't changed, certainly the technology is allowing better, smaller details but at the sacrifice of ease of build. But as the costs and complexity of the kits increases it seems less likey I will avail myself of the new production techoligies. My storage area already looks like a hobby shop and I've been doing some soul searching regarding what is realistic and how much i could make turning over even a third of it. Maybe then I could justify to myself buying something newer. Certainly the 1/24 Airfix Mossie is one of those long lusted after kits but I expect it will mean the 2 1/24 Harriers will go to make room and raise the funds. Frank On May 26, 10:04 am, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost) wrote: > "cr...@earthlink.net" <cr...@earthlink.net> wrote innews:5b94a2cb-6627-4f2a-8429-0028eb004208@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > Frank Amen to that. Yes I will get the 1/24 Mossie, but will have to do think long and hard about the Trumpeter 1/32 A7 Corsair. Wonder why Revell gave up on 1/32 kits anyway.. They offer next to nothing now..they used to have 15+ in their inventory. Craig It's no different with armored vehicles or what I see in ships. The average armor kit now consists of about 750-800 parts with one of the DML Tiger I kits having about 1,300 parts in the box of which 1,000 are needed to build the target subject. I commented about a recent Italeri kit of a Flakpanzer 38(t) being a much simpler kit and therefore easier to build for most folks. While the "Boo Birds" came out to complain it was not as good as either the Tristar or DML ones, I did hear from several modelers who agreed and wistfully noted they'd like to FINISH a model every now and then. Cookie Sewell >It's no different with armored vehicles or what I see in ships. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Cookie Sewell i have the dml king tiger to build for a friend. that seems like 800+ parts. i regret i can't wimp out and give him a tamy. but he would know. at least i didn't have to pay for the summabitch. you guys laugh at me building lindberg kits, but they are a relief after the endless rivet kits. i spent all day sundy building that damn tigers suspension. yesterday i built a lindberg ju87. fron open box to completed. the kit has errors and is very simple, but ya know, paint it and put the decals on and it looks like a ju87. it cost me 12 bucks and gave me a sense of accomplishment. sure i like really up to date kits and all that. but i also like building models. >>It's no different with armored vehicles or what I see in ships. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >sure i like really up to date kits and all that. but i also like building >models. That's why I am into dioramas. I can do simpler kits out of the box and get people not to notice a lot of not quite kosher details. A diaroma entailes quite a lot of creativity using ordinary odds and ends from anywhere that cost next to nothing. Those teeny parts are overkill. They're hard on these olde eyes and fingers. One needs tweesers to handle most of them. A slip and they're gone to that great big hooby club in the sky. A bit too much glue from a reluctant tube and teeny's a mess. > >In article <8f847ef6-2516-41c7-9df4-c6cd8523d...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AMPS...@aol.com wrote: > >>It's no different with armored vehicles or what I see in ships. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > - Show quoted text - yes, gotta love dioramas and mud. they can hide just about every kind of screw up! Craig AMPSOne@aol.com wrote in news:8f847ef6-2516-41c7-9df4- c6cd8523d1de@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: > It's no different with armored vehicles or what I see in ships. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Cookie Sewell Which is why I have all of the 1/32 Mono German armor. They look reasonably good, you can detail them as much or as little as you want (thanks Shep!), some even have Zimmerit. I did the Stug IV as a teen, a real masterpiece, rattle can soft edge camo, tissue paper bedrolls, balsa storage boxes, damaged shurtzen panels, even a cable for the commanders radio out of fishing. The panzer IV looked gtreat crashing through a house, I still have some of the wood peices from the floor and roof liesing around somewhere. I have none of thier allied armor becuase the tracks make my eyes hurt, though I did the Grant some 35 years ago and built a breach for the 37 visible through the opened pistol port. The Airfix 1/32 is OK but the Lee has the British I-bar tracks, well at least the connectors are in the right place, I'm thinking of trying to fill the visible blocks front and rear and letting the rest go. We'll see. I somewhat doubt I'll really build any of my Dragon kits if only becasue of the tracks, they make my head hurt. Though I did get Fruiles for the JagdTiger, some things you have to build. 1,300 parts in the Dragon Tiger I? Are there that many in all of the modern Tamiya Tigers? I guess if can they sell 'em then God Bless 'em. But I'm doing this for me and a close approximation will usually do. Lower parts count and lower cost are the only thing that will get me out of "my" hobby shop and into a retail store these days. At least 1/72 armor is in most cases still reasonable, cost vice complexity, but I'm still looking at the PE grills for the Dragon Jagdpanther. Maybe it's cause they are so shiny but they don't look quite right when I place them and the circular ones look even worse. I may have to paint everything first and then see how they look. Frank "I suspect it's a matter of economics for Revell. They just don't feel that they'll sell well enough to bother with. That being said, with Revell you just never know… Of course, if Trumpeter brings it out, it would be out of my price range anyway. The Story I keep hearing is the molds for the Raiden were destroyed in shipping, Modelers also keep asking for the XSL-001 and Space station, and the story there seems to be clear part molds were destroyed or they can't find the whole set. I remember some years back they reissued the missile series - the ones with molds in good shape became histroy makers - some of the ones in bad shape became the Junior Astronaut series for kids - way to hype the next generation. Val Kraut |
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