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RFI: Using Baking Soda & Super Glue to Fill Seams?

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OM - 10 Jun 2008 04:10 GMT
...I've been hit with a question from someone regarding filling seams
on an old Aurora car kit whose fit isn't that great - in fact, it
sucks worse than some shoddy garage resin kits I've seen - and the
friend who hit me up on it has admitted he's not that good with
puttying. While discussing his predicament, I was reminded of this
recent article on "Starship Modeller":

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/basics/jl_soda_seams.htm

...My question is this: has anyone here actually tried this, and if so
how well does it work? I'm also curious as to whether cyanocryolate
and baking soda and/or talc truly hardens *that* strongly so as to be
so difficult to sand as it's implied.

                OM
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  ]   OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld   [
  ]        Let's face it: Sometimes you *need*         [
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Vernon Clark - 10 Jun 2008 12:15 GMT
Yes, it cures very hard.  If you can build it up from the inside, that
is best.

Vern

>...I've been hit with a question from someone regarding filling seams
>on an old Aurora car kit whose fit isn't that great - in fact, it
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>                OM
>  
Don McIntyre - 10 Jun 2008 14:11 GMT
> Yes, it cures very hard.  If you can build it up from the inside, that
> is best.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> >                            OM

I'll second Vernon's opinion. This combination dries VERY hard, much
harder than the plastic surrounding it. If you're not careful you'll
end up sanding away the surrounding plastic and leave a nice "hump"
where the filler is. I would advise your friend to practice puttying
on an old model to build up his skills, then have a go at his pride
and joy. He'll end up happier for it.

Don McIntyre
Don Stauffer in Minnesota - 10 Jun 2008 14:48 GMT
> > Yes, it cures very hard.  If you can build it up from the inside, that
> > is best.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Don McIntyre

I have had success filling small gaps with merely using the thicker
gel CA without any additional filler. I tried the baking soda once,
did not like it. I generally use a spot or glazing putty, though as I
said for very small gaps I will just use the gel CA, wiping it
carefully level as soon as I apply it.
eyeball - 10 Jun 2008 16:56 GMT
> ...I've been hit with a question from someone regarding filling seams
> on an old Aurora car kit whose fit isn't that great - in fact, it
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>    ]          an obnoxious opinion in your day!           [
>    ]=====================================[

Is it a huge gap? Where? Did he make sure the kit isn't warped?
If the gap is big enough, I'd fill it with scrap plastic first, then
the putty/filler of his choice.
I used to use wood putty in my younger days. Cleans up with water and
dries fast, but if the model is flexed a lot, it can crack. Correction
fluid is good for small seams as well.
But practice with a good putty is still the best choice if possible.
Frank Henriquez - 10 Jun 2008 21:50 GMT
In article <fsrr441ctanuem16kksd77345uahbbk13r@4ax.com>,
> ...My question is this: has anyone here actually tried this, and if so
> how well does it work? I'm also curious as to whether cyanocryolate
> and baking soda and/or talc truly hardens *that* strongly so as to be
> so difficult to sand as it's implied.

it works. i prefer using talc and CA, though. no chemical reaction
(baking soda + CA gets hot)  and the talc + CA putty takes a little
longer to set (a few seconds) than the almost instantaneous baking soda
+ CA mix.

It's also a bit softer than the baking soda mix.

I'm making a 1/350 scale 76mm gun turret (similar to the MK-75). The
turret was vacuformed from very thin plastic and it just wouldn't stand
up to sanding. So I slathered some CA + Talc inside and let it set.

You can see the border between the white plastic and the darker CA+talc
in the gun slit in this picture:

http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/PGL/pgl080608E.JPG

I also flattened the top of the turret. You can see the mix showing
through in this picture:

http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/PGL/pgl080608D.JPG

Frank

Signature

Frank Henriquez  Programmer/Analyst  Jules Stein Eye Institute, UCLA
frank@ucla.edu   http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/index.htm

Gerald Owens - 11 Jun 2008 07:36 GMT
> ...I've been hit with a question from someone regarding filling seams
> on an old Aurora car kit whose fit isn't that great - in fact, it
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> http://www.starshipmodeler.com/basics/jl_soda_seams.htm
The baking soda formula made sense back when superglue came only in
thin consistencies. Nowadays I use gap filling superglue, like Pacer's
Zap-a-Gap. It's the consistency of honey, and if you apply a little
accelerator to the area to be filled before adding the glue, it will
set in place instantly (if you apply a thick layer of glue, then add
the accelerator afterward, it may foam up, which is disastrous). The
key is, sand it as soon as it sets up, while it is still malleable.
The curing continues for a while, and after an hour or so, the glue
will be harder than the surrounding styrene, and will be difficult to
feather in. The good thing is that you can fill the problem area NOW,
and continue your build. This is also the only filler that can be
added to thin edges--you can even apply a bead to the edge of an
aircraft stabilizer, for instance, and sand it to the original contour
without the superglue chipping or coming off.
Gerald Owens

> ...My question is this: has anyone here actually tried this, and if so
> how well does it work? I'm also curious as to whether cyanocryolate
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>    ]          an obnoxious opinion in your day!           [
>    ]=====================================[
Peter W. - 12 Jun 2008 02:49 GMT
> ...I've been hit with a question from someone regarding filling seams
> on an old Aurora car kit whose fit isn't that great - in fact, it
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> and baking soda and/or talc truly hardens *that* strongly so as to be
> so difficult to sand as it's implied.

This is a very old technique. Some people love this techinque and
swear by it. I have never tried as I could never justify mixing a
water soluable chemical powder with CA glue.  Adding to that I've hear
horror stories where some glue joints started "oozing" when exposed to
moist (humid) weather.  Talc OTOH should be safe to use.  CA glues in
general are harder than styrene (whether filled or unfilled).  The
trick is to sand CA joint when it is not yet fully hardened (within
few hours of it setting).  If you wait a day or so then it is too
late.

IMO, this baking soda techinque should be put to rest.  As others have
mentioned in this thread there are many cleaner, safer and more
reliable alternatives available.

I much prefer using various thickness CA glues straight-up while also
using accelerators.  Keep your baking soda in the fridge...

Peteski
OM - 12 Jun 2008 04:57 GMT
>IMO, this baking soda techinque should be put to rest.  As others have
>mentioned in this thread there are many cleaner, safer and more
>reliable alternatives available.

...That's pretty much what I'd concluded when I first heard of using
baking soda instead of talc. From what the OMBlogger who e-mailed me
the question was saying, he'd been told soda "stays in place better"
than talc while the CA was being applied. Although I've not gotten a
response yet, from what I gather he was using the thin stuff and not
the gap filler.

>I much prefer using various thickness CA glues straight-up while also
>using accelerators.  Keep your baking soda in the fridge...

...Same here, although the talc trick would have probably helped me
with a couple of gap issues on an old AMT/Ertl TMP Enterprise I built
quite a while back - jeez, was that really 20 years ago? In any case,
I'll pass on buffers of the comments here, and thank everyone who
added their two quatloos' worth on the trick!

                OM
Signature

  ]=====================================[
  ]   OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld   [
  ]        Let's face it: Sometimes you *need*         [
  ]          an obnoxious opinion in your day!           [
  ]=====================================[

z - 16 Jun 2008 21:38 GMT
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:49:35 -0700 (PDT), "Peter W."
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>    ]          an obnoxious opinion in your day!           [
>    ]=====================================[

are those "microballoons" still available? little tiny hollow glass
bubbles? used to be popular to mix them with  superglue to make a
filler which wasn't as hard.
OM - 17 Jun 2008 02:19 GMT
>are those "microballoons" still available? little tiny hollow glass
>bubbles? used to be popular to mix them with  superglue to make a
>filler which wasn't as hard.

...ISTR something about those being pulled off the market over
inhalation hazard issues. Anyone else remember something like that
hitting the news a few years back?

                OM
Signature

  ]=====================================[
  ]   OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld   [
  ]        Let's face it: Sometimes you *need*         [
  ]          an obnoxious opinion in your day!           [
  ]=====================================[

Rufus - 17 Jun 2008 02:50 GMT
>> are those "microballoons" still available? little tiny hollow glass
>> bubbles? used to be popular to mix them with  superglue to make a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>                 OM

No - you can still get them...a quick Google-shop on "micro balloons"
returned 182 hits, mostly from R/C type sources, but also from some
marine supply shops.

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     - Rufus

 
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