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Model Forum / General / Models / April 2009Health and environment care
As we all know, modelers use lots of dangerous and potentially poisonous products. Everybody is careful using blades because mistakes gives immediate, visible and painful consequences. I'm not sure we use the same attention using glue and paints: every single bottle of paint and glue is covered in warnings for health and environment. "do not allow product to come into contact with skin, eyes or mouth. Do not inhale vapors." is a frequent warning, but do we really take enough precautions using these products? I noticed lots of modelers don't use protections like latex gloves or mask while gluing or painting. I'm not sure what consequences could bring frequent exposure to this kind of chemical products: maybe warnings are just a way to decline any responsibility even if risk is very low? I dont know. I don't want to be misunderstood: i am not talking about deadly consequences, but allergy, hyper-sensitivity, asthma, etc. are serious enough for me to take some precautions. I built my first model 10 years ago, but I began to care about the subject when i bought an airbrush 2 year ago: I didnt use any sort of protection for skin or lungs when i used to brush paint my models, just left the model drying in a closed room with open windows. Now I use gloves when possible, always wear a mask when airbrushing and I never paint if i cant keep the window open. So, coming to the question: what kind of direct (gloves etc) and indirect (open windows, etc) protection, if any, do you use when modeling? Another question is about waste. When you clean your airbrush or brushes, usually you end up with a glass full of paint mixed with water or thinner: how do you get rid of it? I dont know if pouring this kind of waste in the sink is a good idea, but as far as i know this is what happens often. One thing we could do is gathering paint, enamels, thinner residue and bring them to a paint shop that surely has a better chance to get rid of these products correctly. What do you do with your chemical waste? Does anybody know a good and safe way to get rid of them? I think the keyword is "frequency": careless use of modeling products wouldn't bring any relevant consequence to both health and environment if we build one model every two years. If we build six, ten or more models per year i believe both subjects deserve at least to be faced. What do you think about it? Frankie >I think the keyword is "frequency": careless use of modeling products >wouldn't bring any relevant consequence to both health and environment if we >build one model every two years. If we build six, ten or more models per >year i believe both subjects deserve at least to be faced. What do you think >about it? ...See? This is why we need the original Testors Red Tube back on the shelves. Snorting that stuff, we'd never give a sh.t enough to come up with treehugging hippie crap like this. [shakes head in utter dismay] OM  Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ > ...See? This is why we need the original Testors Red Tube back on the > shelves. Snorting that stuff, we'd never give a sh.t enough to come up > with treehugging hippie crap like this. > > [shakes head in utter dismay] It seems a simple "i dont care at all about this" or "i disagree, i drink paint for breakfast" isn't enough... I knew my post would draw such comments, but I still dont understand your need to insult me. :o) You're free to share your opinion, even a completely opposite point of view, but you're not free to insult me. I think our discussion will be very limited until you understand this. Now, listen to a fact: i have a friend who was an hairdresser. I say "was" because daily exposure to some products (hair colors, etc) made her allergic to them and forced her to stop working last week. Simply, she can't be an hairdresser anymore because even if she doesn't use them directly, she can't spend hours in a room where such products are used. I say it in a different way, actually your way: a treehugging hippie doctor wrote on a crappy piece of paper that she became hyper-sensitive to some sh.t they use to color hair and she had to give up her crappy job. I bet you won't make funny comments about this, but feel free to disappoint me. Happy modeling :o) Frankie On Jan 11, 11:39 am, "Venerabile Frakkia" <venerabile_fr...@libero.it> wrote: > > ...See? This is why we need the original Testors Red Tube back on the > > shelves. Snorting that stuff, we'd never give a sh.t enough to come up [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Frankie I think you might be a bit too worried, but I use acrylic (relatively non-toxic) paints and non toxic liquid glues, and always wash my hands after a modeling session. A respirator is a good idea when spraying. And don't let the cruder members of our group get you down...I just ignore the nastier ones. >It seems a simple "i dont care at all about this" or "i disagree, i drink >paint for breakfast" isn't enough... I knew my post would draw such >comments, but I still dont understand your need to insult me. :o) ...Actually, I suspect that mainlining CA instead of heroin has destroyed your sense of humor, hence your defensive stance. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a nice vintage bottle of metalflake to imbibe with some really good fondue :-P OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ on 1/11/2009 11:39 AM (ET) Venerabile Frakkia wrote the following: > >> ...See? This is why we need the original Testors Red Tube back on the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Frankie An allergic reaction to certain items is a concern for many people. Many of my favorite foods are those containing nuts, i.e. peanut butter, peanuts, walnuts, pecans, brazil nuts, filberts, candy bars with nuts, and foods with nut oil, etc. However, peanuts are deadly for many other people. Anyone allergic to anything should avoid those products or things whenever possible - as your friend has wisely done - and anyone allergic to any modeling chemicals should find another hobby. SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @ >An allergic reaction to certain items is a concern for many people. Many >of my favorite foods are those containing nuts, i.e. peanut butter, >peanuts, walnuts, pecans, brazil nuts, filberts, candy bars with nuts, >and foods with nut oil, etc. However, peanuts are deadly for many other >people. ...The problem with the peanut allergy is that the number of cases has jumped almost a hundred-fold in less than a decade, and the growth in confirmed allergy cases has increased almost on an exponential scale in the past generation. Adding to this are people developing allergies who had AbZero problems eating peanuts and peanut products for most of their lives, only to one day suddenly find themselves reacting as if a light switch had been turned on. Compounding the problem is that the current course of action is avoidance rather than trying to piece together just what's changed in the way peanuts are grown, processed and utilized over the past generation that's caused this mess. OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ >> I think the keyword is "frequency": careless use of modeling products >> wouldn't bring any relevant consequence to both health and environment if we [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > OM ...honey, take a whiff on me... Signature- Rufus >> ...See? This is why we need the original Testors Red Tube back on the >> shelves. Snorting that stuff, we'd never give a sh.t enough to come up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >...honey, take a whiff on me... ...Which begs the question: anyone here remember old lemon/lime scented Leech model glue from the late 60's? OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ >>> ...See? This is why we need the original Testors Red Tube back on the >>> shelves. Snorting that stuff, we'd never give a sh.t enough to come up [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > OM ...yeah...as I recall you were better off putting it in your tea than trying to build a model with it. But it did provide some positive reinforcement for the habit of sticking the tube up a nostril... Signature- Rufus I don't discard the stuff I clean my airbrush with. I shoot it into a jar, the contents then are poured into the jar I clean my brushes in. The only paint (not a model paint) that really got me was when I tried to paint my race car with acrylic enamel. The guys at the paint store tried to get me to use proper painting mask. I have been spray painting for many years, so I disregarded the advice. I quickly found I was wrong, had to get out of the basement without even cleaning spray gun! Bought one of the fancy masks! But for everything else, hey, I made it past 70 after a lifetime of modeling. Only thing is, I have become allergic to wood sawdust, so do now need to wear a mask when I sand wood (which I use a lot of in my building). > As we all know, modelers use lots of dangerous and potentially poisonous > products. Everybody is [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Frankie > As we all know, modelers use lots of dangerous and potentially poisonous > products. Everybody is [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > and indirect (open windows, etc) protection, if any, do you use when > modeling? None, other than safety glasses if I'm working with a Dremel tool or sander. And typically I don't even bother to open the windows...been working strictly with enamels for well over 40 years now (since I was 4 years old). They don't seem to bother me - lacquers do (a little, but mainly the smell), but enamels don't. > Another question is about waste. When you clean your airbrush or brushes, > usually you end up with a glass full of paint mixed with water or thinner: > how do you > get rid of it? I don't. I keep it in a container, let it settle, and reuse it for both brushes and airbrushes. After a few years I may decant the solvent off into a new bottle and throw the one with the sediment in the trash, but it's probably about 20 years since I did even that. I just keep adding additional catch spray to the jar. Generally when my paint bottles are empty they're dry by the time I'm ready to get rid of them, so they just go in the trash. I dont know if pouring this kind of waste in the sink is a > good idea, but as far as i know this is what happens often. Yeah - bad idea. Especially with non water solubles...the pigment buildup will eventually clog your pipes over the years. I've never heard of anyone disposing of enamel or other volatile solvents down a drain, but I'm sure it happens. Noted someone draining a radiator into a schoolyard creek last time I was home back east... One thing we > could do is gathering paint, enamels, thinner residue and bring them to a > paint shop that surely has a better chance to get rid of these products > correctly. What do you do with your chemical waste? Does anybody know a good > and safe way to get rid of them? I put them in the garbage and haul them to the landfill. The area where I live is so heavily contaminated with arsenic (that everyone knows about and has decided to do absolutely nothing to remedy) from historical mining activity that I'm not in the least concerned about my small amount of modeling matter. > I think the keyword is "frequency": careless use of modeling products > wouldn't bring any relevant consequence to both health and environment if we [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Frankie I guess I don't, really. I work with and have been directly exposed to or worked alongside far greater industrial hazards over the course of my professional career - benzine, toluene (heh - I used to bathe in raw toluene up to my elbows cleaning aluminum parts...), beryllium, ionizing radiation, high voltage, high frequency RF, laser energy, high explosives - that modeling chemicals are WAY below my noise threshold. And then there's the arsenic in our tap water...so I now drink bottled exclusively. Except for the water in the coffee at work, probably...which is also likely contaminated with JP-5... I guess the only thing I generally pay attention to is fire hazard, seeing as I like the volatiles...if I'm working with heat or flame I'll generally do that in another room from where I paint. But not always...sometimes I'll just separate the operations by a few days. Signature- Rufus >None, other than safety glasses if I'm working with a Dremel tool or >sander. And typically I don't even bother to open the windows...been >working strictly with enamels for well over 40 years now (since I was 4 >years old). They don't seem to bother me - lacquers do (a little, but >mainly the smell), but enamels don't. ...Of course, we're ancient mutants, Rufus. What harms the current generation only makes us stronger :-P OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ >> None, other than safety glasses if I'm working with a Dremel tool or >> sander. And typically I don't even bother to open the windows...been [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > OM ...I love the smell of thinner in the morning...smells like...VICTORY! Signature- Rufus Airbrushing - I built a spray booth to take overspray and solvent fumes away. Cardboard-technology with a fan venting through an outside window, via a hole cut in a block of furniture foam so that the breeze doesn't get in. I found this essential to control the overspray, so that the surroundings didn't get covered in paint. Folds away when not in use. Resin - I always wet-sand to control the dust. A dust mask is advised if you dry-sand, resin produces fine dust and will eventually irritate the lungs. I have a proper respirator, but would only consider it necessary if spraying lacquer, which has a very volatile solvent, without the spray booth. Glues and paint pots are left open only as long as necessary. This prevents spilling them when you knock them over :-) The more volatile liquid glues evaporate pretty quickly, so this is another reason to keep them capped. Cleaning the airbrush is one place where gloves might be warranted. You can't help getting your fingers wet with solvent and lacquer thinners in particular are great at degreasing your skin, which can lead to skin problems. Dry cracked finger ends will limit your ability to do the fiddly bits. I never dip brushes in solvent to clean them any more - after a short while you're just turning your brush brown rather than cleaning it. I put a drop or two of clean thinner on the ferrule, let it run down until the brush is full, then run it through a paper kitchen towel. Repeat until no more colour comes off the brush. Minimises use of thinners and solves the disposal problem - the thinners evaporate and the paper towels go in the bin. The hobbyist modeller is never likely to be exposed to dangerous chemicals for long enough to build up a problem. A professional model-maker would need to take more precautions. Thanks everybody for your replies. First of all, sorry OM: i didn't understand you were joking, so please forgive my overreaction! Sometimes emoticons can help!! ;o) I admit I put the matter in a rather extreme way. I never had a real discussion about this subject, so i felt the need to know what is the...safety standard among modellers. :o) Anyway, what I understand from your replies is: frequent exposure to modeling chemicals can be rarely health-threatening and proper use of products is sufficient to minimize the risk. As eyeball noted, I became a little worried about long term consequences of unaware use of chemical products. If I feared serious outcome I would stop building models right now, but since a simple allergy can force one to stop modeling, avoiding frequent contact or inhalation sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe the lesson is: know what you are doing. I feel I'm lacking knowledge about paints and chemicals so I'm taking some precautions, just in case... Actually, I used enamels, paints and everything else for years without any precaution, then I began asking myself: they write warnings on bottles for a reason, don't they? :o) So another question for paint experts: how come I spilt only 2 open bottles on the floor in several years, and both were *full* of *black* paint?? :o) Frankie > Thanks everybody for your replies. First of all, sorry OM: i didn't > understand you were joking, so please forgive my overreaction! Sometimes [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Frankie I believe you hit on a corollary of Murphy's Law. :) Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > > Thanks everybody for your replies. First of all, sorry OM: i didn't > > understand you were joking, so please forgive my overreaction! Sometimes [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. Wasnt he on Father Ted also? hehe >Thanks everybody for your replies. First of all, sorry OM: i didn't >understand you were joking, so please forgive my overreaction! Sometimes >emoticons can help!! ;o) ...Emoticons would have spoiled the gag :-P OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ >So another question for paint experts: how come I spilt only 2 open bottles >on the floor in several years, and both were *full* of *black* paint?? :o) ...Because you didn't tie a buttered piece of toast and a cat to the bottle before you dropped it. Otherwise the paint would have evenly stread out and covered the walls and the ceiling as well as the floor as it proceded to gyroscope about 5 inches above the floor. OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ Everything has a label that will scare the piss out of even the stoutest among us.But reasonable precautions are warranted. I have allergy problems with resin dust. I wear a fume mask (not a dust mask) when I paint. But in talking to Dr. Frank Mitchell about this one day, I told Frank I was getting sinus infections almost everytime I painted even with my mask. Frank then asked me if I had ever cleaned the inside surfaces of my mask. When I responded that I had not, he suggested I go home and take a look at it. I did that and found the most foul, disgusting crud built up on the inside of that mask. I cleaned it with alcohol and have cleaned it regularly since. The end result is fewer sinus problems. This was a prime case of the pitfalls of partial knowledge. > As we all know, modelers use lots of dangerous and potentially poisonous > products. Everybody is [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Frankie Thanks for that Art. I also use a fume filter when painting and when using glues (I have 30% lung function from emphysema) and had not thought of cleaning it. Mine was also full of crud although to clean it I had to go outside to avoid the alcohol fumes. Thanks again Tony Christchurch New Zealand >Everything has a label that will scare the piss out of even the stoutest >among us.But reasonable precautions are warranted. I have allergy problems [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >The end result is fewer sinus problems. This was a prime case of the >pitfalls of partial knowledge. |
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