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Model Forum / General / Models / April 2009Was the US cheap during WWII?
When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the top side of the left wing and one on the bottom side of the right wing. Did we run out of 'roundels', or were we just conserving them'?  SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @ >When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the >upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the >top side of the left wing and one on the bottom side of the right wing. >Did we run out of 'roundels', or were we just conserving them'? good question, it was just paint. > When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the > upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the > top side of the left wing and one on the bottom side of the right wing. > Did we run out of 'roundels', or were we just conserving them'? We were probably looking for a way to further distinguish US aircraft specifically from other Allies - round is just round when, as they say, "you're operating on brain-stem only"... ...I could think of another reason, too. Like that typically people tend not to scan to their right side first (at least people that grow up driving on the right hand side of the road have this generalized habit...). So if you're sneaking up on someone from behind you'd tactically prefer to do it from their right side. Not having an ID mark on the upper right hand wing might force an opponent to have to get closer to make the ID in order to take a shot - giving the defender more time to scan that part of the sky and be able to defend/avoid. Signature- Rufus > > When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the > > upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -- > - Rufus Actually willshak pretty much answered his own question, although "conserving" was probably not exactly the right word. It's little-known fact that from early 1942 right through to the end of 1944 there was an unbelieveable shortage of stars in the U.S.A., hence putting said stars on only the one wing. Contributing mightily to that shortage was someone's ill-advised requirement that stars (within a circle) be placed on all wheeled or tracked vehicles. It became somewhat alleviated when the requirement for the circle around the star was dropped - although the stars themselves were still in extremely short supply. In looking at old black & white photos and films of the WW II era, one can immediately notice that all U.S. flags were only allocated forty- eight stars - again an indication of the shortage of stars. Post-war research indicated that putting only forty-eight stars on each flag allowed for an additional 48,715 flags to be deployed. And now back to my extensive research library..... Andy >> > When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the >> > upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on th= [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Andy and don't forget all the stars who were working for the war effort and were unable to make movies or do appearances. some flew, some were in the navy and some sold bonds. they certainly couldn't be on airplanes. Ah Andy, in WWII there were only 48 states, hence 48 stars on the flag. Hawaii and Alaska were not states until 1959...... SignatureNever Explain...... Your friends don't need it Your enemies wouldn't believe it On Apr 8, 9:09 pm, Rufus <n...@home.com> wrote: In looking at old black & white photos and films of the WW II era, one can immediately notice that all U.S. flags were only allocated forty- eight stars - again an indication of the shortage of stars. Post-war research indicated that putting only forty-eight stars on each flag allowed for an additional 48,715 flags to be deployed. And now back to my extensive research library..... Andy Andy's humour passes 30,000 ft overhead. Cheers, Nigel OK, so I didn't catch it. Notice the post time, I was tired! SignatureNever Explain...... Your friends don't need it Your enemies wouldn't believe it > Andy's humour passes 30,000 ft overhead. > > Cheers, > > Nigel >When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the >upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the >top side of the left wing and one on the bottom side of the right wing. >Did we run out of 'roundels', or were we just conserving them'? No. This was just to make the space on the opposite wing available to other kinds of formation or identity markings. Stephen "FPilot" Bierce/IPMS #35922 http://frustratedpilot.livejournal.com > No. This was just to make the space on the opposite wing available to > other kinds of formation or identity markings. For example: U.S. ARMY KL Or other sponsorship messages... >> No. This was just to make the space on the opposite wing available to >> other kinds of formation or identity markings. > > For example: U.S. ARMY > > KL > Or other sponsorship messages... Yep, I can just see them selling advertising space. "This 'plane brought to you by Bud" Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. >> Or other sponsorship messages... > > Yep, I can just see them selling advertising space. "This 'plane brought > to you by Bud" Quaintly, your communist allies were used to sponsorship: http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/il2m3sr_1.htm http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/images/il2m3sr_slogan.jpg "To the compatriot Hero of the Soviet Union comrade Pavlov from the workers of the city of Kustanaj." And they had a lot of stars, too. Maybe red paint was cheaper than white? :o) Frankie > > No. This was just to make the space on the opposite wing available to > > other kinds of formation or identity markings. > > For example: U.S. ARMY > > KL Didn't work, the US Navy shot at them anyway. From Pearl Harbor to Bari Italy. probably other instances. >> > No. =A0This was just to make the space on the opposite wing available t= >o [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >From Pearl Harbor to Bari Italy. probably other instances. "fog of war" sadly the problem goes on. > When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the > upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 > To email, remove the double zeroes after @ I thought it was based on having the marks asymetrical and therefore more difficult to target the center of the aircraft. On Apr 9, 12:17 pm, rgronov...@hotmail.com wrote: > > When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the > > upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I thought it was based on having the marks asymetrical and therefore > more difficult to target the center of the aircraft. You get a star! : You get a star! Aren't we short of them? How about a triangle? Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes > : You get a star! > : [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > The Power and the Prophet > Robert Don Hughes I'm told we could get red stars cheap. > When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the > upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 > To email, remove the double zeroes after @ planes with stars on the top got gas on Tuesday, those on the bottom Wednesday. Always remember to ask "Is this trip necessary?" Craig > When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the > upper and lower sides of the wings, the US had only one 'roundel' on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 > To email, remove the double zeroes after @ It had nothing to do with the U.S. being cheap or there being a shortage of stars. During 1942 and 1943 the Army did a series of studies of the effectiveness of aircraft markings. They determined that all roundels looked the same beyond six hundred yards. They also learned that a balanced presentation of roundels (i.e, on both wings, top and bottom surfaces) could be distinguished from an unbalanced presentation (i.e., top left and bottom right) at distances considerably greater than six hundred yards. This also led to the adding of the white crossbar to the national insignia in 1943. on 4/17/2009 1:21 PM (ET) mb3986@aol.com wrote the following: > >> When all, or most all combatant's air forces had 'roundels' on both the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > adding of the white crossbar to the national insignia in 1943. > Thanks for the possible official explanation. BTW, my question was veiled in a humorous tone. I was 4 years and 2 days old on the "Day of Infamy". I don't remember if I heard about it the time. I do remember hearing about the German Vengeance weapons falling on England, and feared they would begin falling on the US. I also feared a German invasion of the US, but since I have a German last name, I figured they wouldn't kill us. Hey! I was 6 years old at the time. :-) SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @ It showed trough the war, that other markings vere more efficient. yellow noses and wingtips on axis planes in Russia, white wingtips and fuselage band in Africa. Yellow front on British wings in Europe and Japanese wings in the Far East. Invasion striping, id markings on early Typhoons and the German "Papagai Stafel" and many more examples. It all indicates that regular national markings vere not good enough. The asymetrical approach was one way of dealing with it. SignatureClaus Gustafsen Strandby Denmark mail me at claus@gustafsen.nu See my modeling at www.gustafsen.nu > on 4/17/2009 1:21 PM (ET) mb3986@aol.com wrote the following: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > German invasion of the US, but since I have a German last name, I figured > they wouldn't kill us. Hey! I was 6 years old at the time. :-) |
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