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Model Forum / General / Models / July 2009TV tonight Nat Geo
For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and build one so it seems could be very interesting > For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's > Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and > build one so it seems could be very interesting Drat! Comcast has that on the digital list and I'm not paying the extortion for that. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. >> For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's >> Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. it was sh.t on toast. poor history and melo dramatic crap. they were measuring the intakes for a reproduction! gee, anybody look up a chart and specs? they also said it was locked up "in a high security site somehwere near dc! you missed nothing. On Jun 28, 11:44 pm, some...@some.domain wrote: > X-No-Archive: yesIn article <_JU1m.1843$NF6.1...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, vze3z...@verizon.net wrote: > >> For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > high security site somehwere near dc! > you missed nothing. While Wikipedia may not be authoritative, this jibes with my recollections: "The only surviving Ho 229 airframe, the V3, is located at the National Air and Space Museum's Paul E. Garber Restoration Facility in Suitland, Maryland." While access to Garber is somewhat restricted (or used to be), its certainly not what I would envision as the "high security" site noted in the broadcast.. > On Jun 28, 11:44 pm, some...@some.domain wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > certainly not what I would envision as the "high security" site noted > in the broadcast.. Didn't you notice the dramatic night shots? Isn't that the highest security in hollywood? ;) >On Jun 28, 11:44=A0pm, some...@some.domain wrote: >> X-No-Archive: yesIn article <_JU1m.1843$NF6.1...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, v= [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >certainly not what I would envision as the "high security" site noted >in the broadcast.. only one reason the show sucked. poor history. > For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's > Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and build > one so it seems could be very interesting Yeah, that was pretty cool. They could have added another hour devoted to just the fab/assy to suit my tastes. I missed the first 15 minutes - who foot the bill on this project? And why? Seemed strange, like they were low on work and had some time on their hands and said WTH. - we'll settle a bar bet and build a Ho 229 model. And the answer to these question was found at... http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-stealth-fighter-3942/Over view55#tab-story-behind-story-hitler-stealth Pretty cool. Wm >> For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's >> Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and build [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Wm wow, i saw it al and was sorry i'll never get that hour of my life back. maybe i'm hard asssed but it was weak. : For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's : Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and build : one so it seems could be very interesting Hopefully it was better done that the one talking about the B-2 stealth bomber. In that one, the narration tried to portray the american aerospace community as completely clue- less to tailless aircraft, at least until one of the Horton planes were brought back to the states for examination. Completely fobbed off Jack Northrup's work in tailless aircraft. Acted like the YB-47 was first US tailless plane. Did they do an analysis regarding how visible the Ho 229 would have been without the carbon in the leading edge, which I gather from the previews was the whole reason for the build? I doubt the British radar would have got a good paint on the plane, unless it was head on. But then, I expect that to be mostly the case for any flying wing design. Bruce  Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes > : For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's > : Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and build [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Bruce A tailless YB-47? Hmm sounds like a what-if? build. Maybe I need another Academy B-47 kit. ;) OTOH, Discovery was making like the channel I used to enjoy today with a full day of prehistory shows. That was so much better than their usual schedule of crap. If I wanted crap I could watch NBC which is Nothing But Crap. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > Completely fobbed off Jack Northrup's work in tailless > aircraft. Acted like the YB-47 was first US tailless plane. Wish they would have spent more bucks and built a Northrop XP-79 ramfighter and compared the two. > I doubt the British radar would have got a good paint on the > plane, unless it was head on. But then, I expect that to be > mostly the case for any flying wing design. Would have been nice and mentioned that the Brits had Chain Home Low going at that time, plus a whole lot of US Army AAA units potting buzz bombs with the SCR-584 ---- The device had to send out 2,000 10-centimeter microwave radio pulses per second. The particular system produced by Chrysler Corporation was named SCR -584 and was teamed with a heavy anti-aircraft battery of four 90mm guns, a British invented IFF (identification, friend or foe) unit; a power source; and an M-9 gun director. The scanning pedestal or antenna mount, officially named Signal Corps Pedestal-MP-61-B, turned at 1,750 revolutions per minute.... Once locked on, the antenna tracks target evasive moves and synchronizes the guns. The equipment was designed to cope with aircraft speeds up to 700 miles per hour, up to 60,000 feet, at a target distance of not less than eight miles. The secret proximity fuse completed the ensemble, since it was effective if triggered within about seventy feet of the target. ---- from http://www.allpar.com/history/military/radar.html Very few V-1s got past these once they were set up by London and Antwerp: I don't see a V-1 having much more RCS than a Ho-229, since it was also mostly wood, no cockpit and no spinning turbine blades to bounce back RF ** mike ** >> Completely fobbed off Jack Northrup's work in tailless >> aircraft. Acted like the YB-47 was first US tailless plane. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > mike > ** According to my father, it was far easier to locate a V-1 than it was to track a Me 262. Perhaps sound location tied into it somehow. V-1s were not stealthy. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. >>> Completely fobbed off Jack Northrup's work in tailless >>> aircraft. Acted like the YB-47 was first US tailless plane. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. Evidently they weren't very fast either, if you could run one down with a Spit or a Typhoon/Tempest. Signature- Rufus > Evidently they weren't very fast either, if you could run one down with > a Spit or a Typhoon/Tempest. No, they weren't that fast, 350mph or so. Problem was, that was at 2-3000 feet. P-51Ds couldn't catch them.They were rated over 400mph, but not down on the deck, but at 25k+. P-47Ms could, but had bad engine troubles. Had Corsairs been around, they would have worked too, but thats Navy Enter Griffon powered clipped wing Spits and Sabre powered Tempests, versions that did better at low altitudes, but not up high ** mike ** > For those of you interested Nat Geo at 9:00 PM EST is showing Hitler's > Stealth fighter the GO 229 and a group is actually going to try and build > one so it seems could be very interesting I still don't understand what was the point of the build. Non-matching materials, $2500-a-gallon paint, all the seams filled and sanded in a way that never woulda happened on a forest assembly line...that didn't strike me as a scientific exploration of the stealth properties of the real thing. Did our tax money pay Northrop to build this giant movie prop? I saw parts of this truly disappointing mess. So they wound up putting it on a stand to analyze the Radar Cross Section. What wasn't clear (or perhaps I missed it) was how did the radar equipment used compare to the actual Chain Home equipment. My impression was they used modern power levels and frequencies, which to me, seems not viable "test". >I saw parts of this truly disappointing mess. So they wound up >putting it on a stand to analyze the Radar Cross Section. What wasn't >clear (or perhaps I missed it) was how did the radar equipment used >compare to the actual Chain Home equipment. My impression was they >used modern power levels and frequencies, which to me, seems not >viable "test". by the time this was built, chain home was gone. some towers still remained but don't forget, ww2 was the wizard war, so by 1944, radar was far beyond it. all the variety was there, surface to air, air to water, air to air...... i suspect it would have been harder to see than a mosquito, those gave the germans fits until very late. >I saw parts of this truly disappointing mess. So they wound up > putting it on a stand to analyze the Radar Cross Section. What wasn't > clear (or perhaps I missed it) was how did the radar equipment used > compare to the actual Chain Home equipment. My impression was they > used modern power levels and frequencies, which to me, seems not > viable "test". I got the impression they knew what they were doing and that their collective smarts on the subject exceeds ours. WmB >>I saw parts of this truly disappointing mess. So they wound up >> putting it on a stand to analyze the Radar Cross Section. What wasn't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >WmB bad assumption about tv....keerful. > X-No-Archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > bad assumption about tv....keerful. No, actually, it's an extremely safe assumption that the stealth folks at Northrop-Grumman know more about the subject than all of us put together. As for the original question on the test simulation, someone has wiki'd the project: ***************************************** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_229 In an experiment to determine the stealth characteristics of the design, Northrop-Grumman built a full-size reproduction of the V3 incorporating a duplicate glue mixture in the nose section. After an expenditure of about US$250,000 and 2,500 man-hours Northrop's Ho-229 reproduction was tested at the company's classified radar cross-section (RCS) test range at Tejon, California, where it was placed on a 15-meter (50 ft) articulating pole and exposed to electromagnetic energy sources from various angles, duplicating the same three frequences used by the Chain Home radar network of the British in the early 1940s. RCS testing showed that an Ho 229 approaching the English Coast from France flying at 885 km/h (550 mph) at 15 - 30 meter (50 - 100 ft) above the water would not have been visible to Chain Home radar, while a Bf 109 or Fw 190 was visible up to 129 km (80 miles) away. With testing complete, the reproduction was donated by Northrop-Grumman to the San Diego Air and Space Museum, while the TV special aired on June 28, 2009 on the National Geographic Channel. ****************************************** WmB >> X-No-Archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >WmB i suppose tv had to get one right. wonder who screwed up? > >>"OldSchool" wrote in message > >>> What wasn't > >>> clear (or perhaps I missed it) was how did the radar equipment used > >>> compare to the actual Chain Home equipment. ..... .... > where it was placed on a 15-meter (50 ft) articulating pole and > exposed to electromagnetic energy sources from various angles, duplicating > the same three frequences used by the Chain Home radar network of the > British in the early 1940s. .... Thx for the info...either that wasn't noted during the broadcast, or (far more likely) I missed the statement of such. As far as trusting the abilities of the Northrop engineers, I subscribe to the "trust but verify" school of thought. : I still don't understand what was the point of the build. Keeping folks occupied, rather than laying them off with pay, I guess. : Non-matching materials, $2500-a-gallon paint, all the seams filled and : sanded in a way that never woulda happened on a forest assembly : line.. Explain why using $2500/gal. paint made more sense than bolting a couple of sheets of aluminum in place of the paint, please? Oh, we already have the paint on hand, perhaps? : that didn't strike me as a scientific exploration of the : stealth properties of the real thing. Did Horton use nails to keep the plywood in place? : Did our tax money pay Northrop to build this giant movie prop? Apparently. On the other hand, we got to see the inside of a top secret hanger! Damn, but that made it all worth while! On the whole, it was the piece of dross that I expected the show to be. No attempt was made to explain why the proto- type crashed when it lost an engine, or how the Germans were going to solve the minor issue of the plywood delaminating a' la the Moskito. No attempt was made to compare the Ho229 to other plywood aircraft, like the Mosquito, or any of Jack Northrup's designs. And I had to love the farcical depiction of the Ho18 being accompanied by the Ho229's as they dropped nukes on New York and DC. All because the Dutch Uncle said that in 1946, the Germans would have a new-cooler weapon. Almost as likely as the Ho229 attacking the Chain-Home radar station on the coast, with narry a flak gun in sight. Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes >: I still don't understand what was the point of the build. >: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Bruce is there a historian in the house? (name that joke!) |
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