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Model Forum / General / Models / April 2004Factory NMF--shiny or dull?
Three part question--1. Was factory natural metal finish shiny, dull, somewhere in between? I know on restored aircraft it's polished to a nice gloss which looks great in pictures, but.... What did the factory do? Raw bare aluminum is a corrosion nightmare, so is it safe to assume it was at least covered with a clear coat? But was it actually machine polished first or just left as it came from the tinbenders? I've seen original pics of WWll birds, but since they're almost all in B&W it's about impossible to tell. Pics of more modern jets (F-104's and F-86's in particular) look quite glossy. 2. I've never used foil, buffing metallics or SNJ(?). Anything I've ever needed 'silver' got painted with basic silver paint. Which is most applicable, the least PITA, etc? 3. What's the best method for applying decals over metal finishes, particularly foil, so they look painted on? When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. --Leonardo Da Vinci > But was it actually machine polished first or just left as it >came from the tinbenders? WWII era aircraft would usually be a mid gloss, not highly polished but a noticable sheen. P-51s otoh had their wings puttied and sprayed silver so you'd need to do a duller silver on the wings than the fuselage. >2. I've never used foil, buffing metallics or SNJ(?). Anything I've ever >needed 'silver' got painted with basic silver paint. Which is most >applicable, >the least PITA, etc? SNJ is a fine way to go since you can vary the sheen with the polishing powder. A very sturdy finish, you can mask over it unlike the T mettalics. That polishing powder has a variety of other applications as well. >3. What's the best method for applying decals over metal finishes, >particularly >foil, so they look painted on? Final clearcoat over metal finish is kinda tough because it changes the sheen of the metal. It's best to use high quality decals and trim them close to the colored portion. hth, The Keeper (of too much crap) > > But was it actually machine polished first or just left as it > >came from the tinbenders? > > P-51s otoh had their wings puttied and sprayed silver so you'd > need to do a duller silver on the wings than the fuselage. Wasn't that only on Ds? I think the gun/ammo access panels and control surfaces of the wings were not painted but bare aluminum. Tom Any Merlin engined P-51 had puttied and painted wings. Specs called for a minimum of the front 30% (I'd have to double check the figure but 30 sticks in my mind) of chord to be so treated with access, ammo bay doors, gun muzzle plates, wing tips and gear doors not puttied or painted as they were designed for rapid removal and replacement. Note that this putty and paint was done on the wing assembly before mating it to the fuselage so wing/fuselage fillets were not puttied and painted. Flaps and ailerons left NMF or painted as camo scheme required. > Wasn't that only on Ds? I think the gun/ammo access panels and control > surfaces of the wings were not painted but bare aluminum. > > Tom rwsmithjr@rcn.com wrote: > Specs called for > a minimum of the front 30% (I'd have to double check the figure but 30 > sticks in my mind) of chord to be so treated with access, Could be. I thought it was the forward 2/3rds. Don't recall seeing the panel lines filled on models I've looked at. Tom Gents, When you work this out, please post it here. I'm just about to the painting stage on a Hasegawa P-51D - I knew about the puttied and painted wings, but wasn't sure about the fine details involved - no real mention of it any of my references. Like Tom, I've never seen the filled panel lines on a model, either (is that some sort of oxymoron or something??). From the little that I know of the subject, it was done to maintain the airflow over the laminar-flow wing, which worked very well when the surface was perfect; little dents, scratches, or, as I recall reading in a book about Spitfires 'even a squashed bug on the leading edge' (!) (the Spit using laminar-flow wings when it became the Spiteful, IIRC) was enough to interefere with airflow, causing a loss of efficiency. I've dropped the flaps on this bird (Oh, the horror, the horror!) - this has involved building into the fuselage the boxes for the flaps to fit into, adding substantial plastic the the flaps, to fill in the missing bits there and rebuilding the little tags that fit around the intake from the wings - nearly finished, though I'll never do it again! If I want dropped flaps on another 'stang, I'll use the Tamiya kit. Rest of the kit is as Mr H offered - quite nice, but a bit fiddly. I'll do this as one of the RAAF's 51s, in natural metal and silver; don't know which squadron yet - if it ever gets finished, I'll post to abms. You guys just need to get your act together and give me some definitive info on the putty/paint question! :-) RobG > rwsmithjr@rcn.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tom Weren't the ailerons fabric? If I'm correct, then they'd be silver doped instead of bare aluminum if not painted camo. >Three part question--1. Was factory natural metal finish shiny, dull, >somewhere [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >they're almost all in B&W it's about impossible to tell. Pics of more modern >jets (F-104's and F-86's in particular) look quite glossy. Factory-fresh alclad aluminum alloy sheet has a somewhat "brushed finish" look to it, stemming from the rolling mill rollers which process it into thin sheets for covering aircraft. The various sheet aluminum panels were cut or punched out of this rolled aluminum in pretty much the most economical way to maximize the use of the material, while creating minimal waste (even though the scraps were recycled!). This means that this linear, brushed finish laid at various, often opposing angles on the surface of a newly built, natural metal aircraft. During WW-II, with the tremendous mass-production of aircraft in the US, the earlier methods of creating such compound curved panels as wing fillets, wingtips, cowling panels, and leading edges became stamped parts, rather than being formed on "English Wheels" as had been the practice in the 30's when aircraft production could be measured in 2, or 3 digit numbers over a production run of perhaps a year or two. As such, I suspect that the stamping process for these panels did lead to the disappearance of the original "rolling mill" finish, and they may even have seen some polishing. While not primarily an aircraft builder, I have done several NMF planes over the years, which I covered in BareMetal Foil. On a Williams Brothers Northrop Gamma, I elected not only to use BMF on the entire aircraft, but determined to give it that "rolling mill" finish to each panel. This I did with an old-fashioned typwriter eraser, as those had a bit of fine abrasive embedded in the otherwise rubber eraser. I did this on the sheet of BMF, then cut out each panel separately, and applied that to the surfaces at right angles one-to-another. The foil used on wing-roots, the fairings over the landing gear, etc., I left in untouched BMF. The effect was outstanding, IMHO, and gave a different dimension to the model. AA On 02 Apr 2004 16:19:04 GMT, timetraveler658@aol.com.mil.nav (Disco -- FlyNavy) wrote: >I've never used foil, buffing metallics or SNJ(?). Anything I've ever >needed 'silver' got painted with basic silver paint. Which is most applicable, >the least PITA, etc? Alclad II: http://www.alclad2.com/index2.html .  SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - click "Reply To" to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." > Three part question--1. Was factory natural metal finish shiny, dull, somewhere > in between? I know on restored aircraft it's polished to a nice gloss which [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 3. What's the best method for applying decals over metal finishes, particularly > foil, so they look painted on? #2. Testors metals are easy to work with even if they are delicate. I've found 2 ways to work with them, one a bit labor intensive but no waiting between shades. The other is to spray a 'shell' of Future over the primary buffed shade. Masking around panels to be sprayed different shades with drafting tape has not lifted the Future, which means the metals stayed down also. -- Chuck Ryan CSRZ28@REMOVEearthlink.net Springfield OH |
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