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OT, Where did they go?

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MQM-107 - 21 Apr 2004 23:55 GMT
I recognise that this is somewhat off topic, but does anyone know
where there may be a timeline that shows all of the Aircraft
Manufacturers that were around at the end of WWII and where they went.
Like company XYZ merged with ABC to become XYC, then to buy company
AAC to become XAC. I saw one somewhere years ago but alot has changed
since then. Like Boeing buying McDonnel Douglas. Just thought it would
be interesting to see.

Mike
Val Kraut - 22 Apr 2004 00:31 GMT
Actually would be interesting to start just before WW II. Not sure how long
companies like Brewster actually lasted. Did they survive the war.
Especially with most of the shop in the Bund.

Anyway there was a merger chart in Time or Newsweek when the real industry
merger craze was starting. Maybe about 10 or 11 years ago.

Maybe with enough inputs we can construct one. Gotta be messy when companies
merged and then they spun off parts to other companies. Need a product line
dimension and spin -off.

Look at Grumman - at one time there were aircraft carriers with only Grumman
planes on the deck. They merge with Northrop. Now Northrop Grumman is the
only company building Carriers - and just parts of carrier aircraft.

Val Kraut
Charles Seyferlich - 22 Apr 2004 02:03 GMT
>I recognise that this is somewhat off topic, but does anyone know
>where there may be a timeline that shows all of the Aircraft
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Mike

The best I could find was a web site listing aircraft manufacturers in
alphabetical order with links to company historoes. Site seems to be a
work in progress as some histories aren't done yet. Interesting if you
have a specific company in mind - example Brewster life-span was
1932~1942.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_manufacturers
Bill Banaszak - 22 Apr 2004 05:09 GMT
One that would interest me would delieate how all the British
manufacturers ended up in BAe except Westlands (or did they?).
The French manufacturers also all seem to have grouped up and
disappeared behind acronyms.

Bill Banaszak, MFE
Maiesm72 - 22 Apr 2004 07:07 GMT
>The French manufacturers also all seem to have grouped up and
>disappeared behind acronyms.

Bloch was a French Jew hidden by a Catholic family at mortal risk to their
lives.

After the war Bloch changed his name to that of the family who saved him,
slightly changing it to Dassault.

Tom
Bill Banaszak - 23 Apr 2004 04:22 GMT
> >The French manufacturers also all seem to have grouped up and
> >disappeared behind acronyms.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Tom

Yep, IIRC, d'assault was his resistance name.  I was thinking along the
lines of Nord, Sud-Ouest, SNECMA, etc.

Bill Banaszak, MFE
Rob Grinberg - 22 Apr 2004 14:59 GMT
That's an easy one - it was the same as Britain's car industry. Correct me
if I'm wrong, you Brits, but IIRC, the govenment in power at the time - mid
50s/early 60s? - (probably Labour - they seem to be the bas****s of the
piece!) saw that the industry was ailing and instead of doing the smart
thing and encouraging each maker to compete with the others, as well as
overseas manufacturers, took the political decision to merge all the makers
into one - BAe in the case of the aero industry (it wasn't called that
originally, I think, but it is now!) and British Leyland for cars.  The
result - complete loss of anything resembling pride, achievment or product
development - with a very few notable exceptions.  It's probably a little
more complicated than that, but you get the gist.

RobG

> One that would interest me would delineate how all the British
> manufacturers ended up in BAe except Westlands (or did they?).
>
> Bill Banaszak, MFE
Alan Dicey - 22 Apr 2004 23:44 GMT
> One that would interest me would delieate how all the British
> manufacturers ended up in BAe except Westlands (or did they?).
> The French manufacturers also all seem to have grouped up and
> disappeared behind acronyms.
>
> Bill Banaszak, MFE

Beg, borrow, steal or get from your lending library a copy of "Project
Cancelled" by Derek Wood.  Appendix 1 is exactly what you want to see,
(well, starting from 1946) and Appendix 2 is the equivalent for engine
manufacturers.

To summarise, missing out some details: AV Roe, Hawker, Airspeed, De
Havilland, General Aircraft, Blackbur and Folland became Hawker Siddley
in 1959-60.  Gloster merged with Armstrong-Whitworth who were
assimilated by HS.

Bristol, English Electric, Percival and Vickers Armstrong became BAC in
1960.

HS, BAC and Scottish Aviation became BAe in 1977.

Westland, Cierva, Saunders-Roe, Bristol (helo bits) and Fairey became
Westlands in 1959-60.

Auster became Beagle in 1962 and closed in 1970
Miles shut down in 1947
Handley Page was liquidated in 1970
Bolton Paul stopped aircraft design in the '50's and became part of
Dowty in 1961.
Don Stauffer - 22 Apr 2004 14:58 GMT
One of the more interesting to me is Curtiss-Wright.  They went from
being the dominant company in US aviation in the early thirties to a
manufacturer of subassemblies and parts, and ground equipment, in the
jet age.  What a comedown.  Last time I looked they were still in
business, but a mere shadow of their earlier existence.

> I recognise that this is somewhat off topic, but does anyone know
> where there may be a timeline that shows all of the Aircraft
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Mike

Signature

Don Stauffer in Minnesota
stauffer@usfamily.net
webpage- http://www.usfamily.net/web/stauffer

EGMcCann - 22 Apr 2004 22:11 GMT
I think that was from not being able to develop the P-40 farther (though it
did indirectly lead to the P-51) and problems with the Helldiver and
Curtiss-built P-47s.

> One of the more interesting to me is Curtiss-Wright.  They went from
> being the dominant company in US aviation in the early thirties to a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> > Mike
William H. Shuey - 23 Apr 2004 01:47 GMT
FWIW  I read an article by Donovan Berlin (designer of the Curtiss
P-36/P-40 series) and he attributed their decline to "Corporate
Senility". Essentially, times changed and Curtiss' management didn't.

                            Bill Shuey

> I think that was from not being able to develop the P-40 farther (though it
> did indirectly lead to the P-51) and problems with the Helldiver and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > jet age.  What a comedown.  Last time I looked they were still in
> > business, but a mere shadow of their earlier existence.
Don Stauffer - 23 Apr 2004 14:40 GMT
But their engine division tanked too.  They did make jet engines after
war, but that division tanked like their airframe business.

> I think that was from not being able to develop the P-40 farther (though it
> did indirectly lead to the P-51) and problems with the Helldiver and
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004

Signature

Don Stauffer in Minnesota
stauffer@usfamily.net
webpage- http://www.usfamily.net/web/stauffer

Bill Banaszak - 24 Apr 2004 03:06 GMT
Curtiss-Wright did a job on Studebaker-Packard too back in the late
'50s.  They had a King-Midas-in-reverse touch after the P-40.

Bill Banaszak, MFE
Don Stauffer - 24 Apr 2004 15:26 GMT
They also picked up a license for the Wankel engine, but didn't do
anything much with it.

> Curtiss-Wright did a job on Studebaker-Packard too back in the late
> '50s.  They had a King-Midas-in-reverse touch after the P-40.
>
> Bill Banaszak, MFE

Signature

Don Stauffer in Minnesota
stauffer@usfamily.net
webpage- http://www.usfamily.net/web/stauffer

The Old Timer - 22 Apr 2004 22:24 GMT
>> I recognise that this is somewhat off topic, but does anyone
>> know where there may be a timeline that shows all of the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> then. Like Boeing buying McDonnel Douglas. Just thought it
>> would be interesting to see.

Try doing it this way (I did it myself a few years ago). Go to your local
library and look up the "Jane's" series of aircraft books. In addition to
having a wealth of data on some really obscure modeling subjects, they always
had a brief write-up on the (then) current status of the different
manufacturers.

>One of the more interesting to me is Curtiss-Wright.  They went from
>being the dominant company in US aviation in the early thirties to a
>manufacturer of subassemblies and parts, and ground equipment, in the
>jet age.  What a comedown.  Last time I looked they were still in
>business, but a mere shadow of their earlier existence.

Tell me about it. C-W and Consolidated were both located in Buffalo; C-W's
factory (one of threee or so that I know of) by the Buffalo Airport was sold to
Westinghouse and torn down last year. Consolidated's was to to a tin can
manufacturer and somebody else has it now.

-- John
The history of things that didn't happen has never been written.
.          -                                   -                              
     - Henry Kissinger
 
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