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Model Forum / General / Models / August 2004German A/C Markings on Boxes
Could anybody tell me the date when manufactures stopped putting swastikers on boxes please?. Just discussing it with my better half while talking about the old Airfix P51B "The Hun Hunter Texas" and the row of victory markings under the cockpit. > Could anybody tell me the date when manufactures stopped putting > swastikers on boxes please?. Just discussing it with my better half > while talking about the old Airfix P51B "The Hun Hunter Texas" and > the row of victory markings under the cockpit. Must have been some time after those lot in that space of land that was put in place to keep the Germans and the French and westward allies apart, got above their station and started telling everyone what to do just a few years ago. The only aircraft I remember from the Airfix range not to have a swastika on the tail was the old Ju87D but other model Axis aircraft still had them on. The swastika is now a banned symbol (apologies to the Hindus) and we did have an "eBay bans swastika in kits being sold" thread early this year. http://flagspot.net/flags/naz_ban.html Ban the symbol and there is an end to all wars. Yeah, right! Richard. > Must have been some time after those lot in that space of land that was put > in place to keep the Germans and the French and westward allies apart, Who do you mean? > got above their station and started telling everyone what to do just a few years > ago. Fundamentally incorrect statement. Noboby told anybody anything really. Read your link below properly > http://flagspot.net/flags/naz_ban.html The only place where the Swastika is generally banned is in Germany. The kit, and to some extent decal, manufacturers decided to play it 'better safe than sorry'. At the time of maunfacture they have no idea to which, if any, countries the kit is being exported, and those countries' view on the Swastika. The view is not necessarily only legal, it is often PR, manufacturers do not want to be associated with displaying Swastikas in toystores. Anders >> Must have been some time after those lot in that space of land that >> was put in place to keep the Germans and the French and westward [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Anders I'm pretty sure the Red Star has seen more bloodshed than the swaika, and the hinomaru is red becuase of the blood spilled on it. Funny how noone gets upset over that. Or Mussolini's facisiti markings. > >> Must have been some time after those lot in that space of land that > >> was put in place to keep the Germans and the French and westward [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the hinomaru is red becuase of the blood spilled on it. Funny how noone > gets upset over that. Or Mussolini's facisiti markings. It seems to depend on what the country suffered under. Italy has banned fascisti markings, and Hungary both the Swastika and the Red Star. Anders > I'm pretty sure the Red Star has seen more bloodshed than the swaika, and > the hinomaru is red becuase of the blood spilled on it. Funny how noone > gets upset over that. Or Mussolini's facisiti markings. Well...the "Red Star" is communist/socialist...so that is "good" to most of those who complain about the Swastika. And most of those who do such complaining, have no idea what is meant by the terms "hinomaru" or "facisiti".  SignatureGreg Heilers Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 9.1 ..... "Democracy, is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty, is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin >I'm pretty sure the Red Star has seen more bloodshed than the swaika, Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the first markings on US military aircraft? Tom >>I'm pretty sure the Red Star has seen more bloodshed than the swaika, > > Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of > the first markings on US military aircraft? > > Tom Or aware of the 45th Inf. Regt's emblem *before* the thunderbird? :o) SignatureGreg Heilers Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 9.1 ..... "Democracy, is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty, is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin For once,I did know both of those! > Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of >> the first markings on US military aircraft? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >:o) For once,I did know both of those! Sorry for the (half) double post lol > Or aware of the 45th Inf. Regt's emblem *before* the thunderbird? A Swastika-like emblem was also used by the Colorado National Guard's aviation unit before World War II. It was based on a Native American symbol. Martin >Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the >first markings on US military aircraft? Yep.... SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - click "Reply To" to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." >>Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the >>first markings on US military aircraft? > > Yep.... You remember it first hand? ;+) Kim M >>>Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the >>>first markings on US military aircraft? >> >> Yep.... > >You remember it first hand? ;+) Kim M hah! even i am not that old. i remeber seeing photos first hand. wizze guy. >>>Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the >>>first markings on US military aircraft? >> >> Yep.... > >You remember it first hand? ;+) C'mon - I know I'm a cranky old conservative but I'm not *that* old...... ;-p SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - click "Reply To" to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." > C'mon - I know I'm a cranky old conservative but I'm not *that* >old...... ;-p Al, you remember when the Lindberg "Flintstonemobile" was an AMT annual. :+))) Kim M >...you remember when the Lindberg "Flintstonemobile" was an AMT annual. Well yeah, but not the original issue...... ;-p SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - click "Reply To" to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." Now that's funny! RobG > > C'mon - I know I'm a cranky old conservative but I'm not *that* > >old...... ;-p > > Al, you remember when the Lindberg "Flintstonemobile" was an AMT annual. > > :+))) Kim M >>I'm pretty sure the Red Star has seen more bloodshed than the swaika, > >Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the >first markings on US military aircraft? > >Tom sure. Or that a lot of RAF planes had the Swasticka on them between the two world wars? I think it was something like a geografical thing, but it seems that Hawker Hinds Harts etc. in the middle East used it. SignatureClaus Gustafsen Strandby Denmark mail me at claus@gustafsen.nu See my modeling at www.gustafsen.nu Se min datters side om Fantasy på http://home20.inet.tele.dk/mymagicalworls > >I'm pretty sure the Red Star has seen more bloodshed than the swaika, > > Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the > first markings on US military aircraft? > > Tom > Or that a lot of RAF planes had the Swasticka on them between the two world > wars? I think it was something like a geografical thing, but it seems that > Hawker Hinds Harts etc. in the middle East used it. Actually, it is related to a, ahem, "theory" dating back to before WWI, a mix of beliefs about Atlantis, bits of greek and Hindi mythology, learned ancient races living with levitating monks in Tibet, being aware of Nature's mystical forces, the Aryan race being the chosen people (yes, it all started back then), and The Mystical Power of Runes For The Dummies, all mixed together and explaining "What It All Means", "Why Are We Here" and "Yes, The Light Goes Off When You Close The Door Of The Fridge". This theory was largely promoted by a russian emigrant, Elena Petrovna Blavatzky (with the significative help of a number of proeminent US citizens, btw). Much of the stuff related to the Nazis comes from it: the supremacy ot the Aryan race, the double "S" rune of the SS, the Y- like rune used by some other Nazi organisation (Todt ? Not sure of that...) and, of course, the svastika, which meant life, sun, resurrection, success, victory, etc. and was chosen to be the symbol of the party. During WWI, amulets and lucky charms with the svastika were very popular among soldiers, on both sides. It would appear that the use of the symbol carried on in various armed forces, at least until the Nazis picked it up. What happened next is known to all. Signature-sdg "Un gromono, mon royaume pour un gromono!" Shakespeare - Richard III >Is there anybody left out there that knows that the red star was one of the >first markings on US military aircraft? Yeah, I do. Thanks to an old Leach print which featured a Jenny with red stars assisting Pershing's troops against Villa. PT >> I'm pretty sure the Red Star has seen more bloodshed than the swaika, >> and the hinomaru is red becuase of the blood spilled on it. Funny how [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > do such complaining, have no idea what is meant by the terms "hinomaru" > or "facisiti". And most of the ones complaining would be the first to be banged iut under such a system, because frankly they are most annoying and have no generla usefulness. >>> Must have been some time after those lot in that space of land that >>> was put in place to keep the Germans and the French and westward [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >the hinomaru is red becuase of the blood spilled on it. Funny how noone >gets upset over that. Or Mussolini's facisiti markings. perception and reality are not often friends. I know that it wasn't band as such ,just manufacturers stopped putting it in ther boxes but when did this happen? > > Must have been some time after those lot in that space of land that was > put [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Anders > I know that it wasn't band as such ,just manufacturers stopped putting it in > ther boxes but when did this happen? Depends on the manufacturer, but atleast 20 years ago. Anders >I know that it wasn't band as such ,just manufacturers stopped putting it in >ther boxes but when did this happen? I have Lindberg and Revell kits from the sixties that don't have swaztikas. They were obviously marketing in Germany at that point. Late sixties and most of the seventies things took an upswing and you could get swaztikas in most kits. Around the late eighties and nineties the politically correct started rearing their ugly heads. I think the split swaztika as Hasegawa does it is the best solution. hth The Keeper (of too much crap!) >>I know that it wasn't band as such ,just manufacturers stopped putting it in >>ther boxes but when did this happen? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >The Keeper (of too much crap!) it would also be nice to have affordable decal sheets. the only swastika sheet i saw was $19. ouch. >the only swastika sheet i saw was $19. ouch. Yikes, what brand was that? Almark and Superscale had swaztika sheets; if you do a search at Squadron.com or Hannants you'll likely come up with more affordable alternatives. I've got an ESCI sheet but after carefull research I discovered most of the sizes are wrong. hth The Keeper (of too much crap!) >>the only swastika sheet i saw was $19. ouch. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >The Keeper (of too much crap!) i didn't notice. it was at hobbytown in vegas. their sheets average 12 bucks, > >>the only swastika sheet i saw was $19. ouch. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > i didn't notice. it was at hobbytown in vegas. their sheets > average 12 bucks, Apparently Vegas businessmen are used to people being parted from their money easily. Bill Banaszak, MFE >> >>the only swastika sheet i saw was $19. ouch. >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Bill Banaszak, MFE prolly. the hobbytown did have some specific sheets for al low as $6. the general sheets were all higher. but they do have green stickers on the "dogs" and sale items, so sometime they are $3-$5. i save every leftoever like it was gold. > >> >>the only swastika sheet i saw was $19. ouch. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > sometime they are $3-$5. > i save every leftoever like it was gold. As do I. I grabbed a bunch of used sheets that were heading for the dumpster because they couldn't be sold secondhand they were so ratty. I spent many hours trimming the good stuff out and saving them. Most of the big scale stuff was spread around this group as I have little need for it. Bill Banaszak, MFE >> >> >>the only swastika sheet i saw was $19. ouch. >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Bill Banaszak, MFE my collection proudly sports a bill b folder. those b-29 decals are so nice i want to build a kit just for them. Note: The national markings, including the WW2 German cross, are not banned. The swastika was the symbol of the Nazi party. Jack G > Could anybody tell me the date when manufactures stopped putting swastikers > on boxes please?. Just discussing it with my better half while talking about > the old Airfix P51B "The Hun Hunter Texas" and the row of victory markings > under the cockpit. > Could anybody tell me the date when manufactures stopped putting swastikers > on boxes please?. Just discussing it with my better half while talking about > the old Airfix P51B "The Hun Hunter Texas" and the row of victory markings > under the cockpit. About the same time the Bars and Stars were removed from the roof of the General Lee, Dixie was banished from radio stations and you couldn't get your favorite NASCAR driver kitted if his sponsor was beer or tobacco. Mid 1980s or there abouts is when the ugly head of PC started popping up on my radar. WmB To reply, get the HECK out of there HELLinhock@earthlink.net >> Could anybody tell me the date when manufactures stopped putting >swastikers [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >To reply, get the HECK out of there >HELLinhock@earthlink.net i first noticed pc in the 60's when women started being vocal about being called chicks and other things. it seems to have gone waaaay overboard, making it a very american phenom. > i first noticed pc in the 60's when women started being > vocal about being called chicks and other things. > it seems to have gone waaaay overboard, making it a very > american phenom. Several years ago, many here in the Austin area, began loudly complaining that the nickname for our University of Texas, Women's athletic teams "Lady Longhorns"; was degrading and sexist.... Never in my life, had I thought that *anyone* would find a problem with using the term "lady" to refer to a female...lol. I mean, what would they prefer then: "Cows"? "Heifers"? :o) SignatureGreg Heilers Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 9.1 >> i first noticed pc in the 60's when women started being >> vocal about being called chicks and other things. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >:o) i have taken to yes mam and no mam to the facist libbers. and asking them to explain EXACTLY why they don't like it. > > i first noticed pc in the 60's when women started being > > vocal about being called chicks and other things. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Greg Heilers > Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 9.1 Urgent Udders? Bill Banaszak, MFE Back in the early '80s, MPC put a rather rational note on the boxtops of their reboxed Airfix German aircraft kits. The 1/72 MPC Bf 109E in Adolf Galland's markings has the following note on the main box illustration: "The German swastika used on this model kit is part of the authenticated markings on this replica of an actual aircraft flown during World War II". The box art shows a painting of Galland's '109 complete with swastika which is also included on the decal sheet. I thought MPC was really on the ball to include this note which I believe addresses the issue rather well. Martin Two points. We suffer from the dreaded PC here, too. It ain't just a US phenomonon. And on the other side of the coin, I work with a lass who is a self-proclaimed 'chick' - and she's proud of it, too. And she's rather easy on the eyes. So rest easy men - all is not lost! RobG > >> Could anybody tell me the date when manufactures stopped putting > >swastikers [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > it seems to have gone waaaay overboard, making it a very > american phenom. >Two points. We suffer from the dreaded PC here, too. It ain't just a US >phenomonon. And on the other side of the coin, I work with a lass who is a >self-proclaimed 'chick' - and she's proud of it, too. And she's rather easy >on the eyes. So rest easy men - all is not lost! > >RobG i miss hippy chicks. (yes, i know i've said that before.) > Two points. We suffer from the dreaded PC here, too. It ain't just a US > phenomonon. And on the other side of the coin, I work with a lass who is a > self-proclaimed 'chick' - and she's proud of it, too. And she's rather easy > on the eyes. So rest easy men - all is not lost. Sounds like Clara where I used to work. After we'd gone through the obligatory speech by a lawyer on sexual harassment she proclaimed that being sexually harassed at work was one of the perks as far as she was concerned. For a grandma she was indeed harassable! Bill Banaszak, MFE Seen on the desk of a female co-worker: "Sexual Harassment in this are will not be reported. It will, however, be GRADED." -Kevin SignatureRemove "nospam" from domain part of address > > > > Two points. We suffer from the dreaded PC here, too. It ain't just a US [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Bill Banaszak, MFE > Sounds like Clara where I used to work. After we'd gone through the > obligatory speech by a lawyer on sexual harassment she proclaimed that > being sexually harassed at work was one of the perks as far as she was > concerned. For a grandma she was indeed harassable! OOoohhh, the memories! There was a blond where I used to work, her after hours part time job was as an instructor at one of the local health clubs. Was she ever a smasher in a set of leotards. Every guy in the plant would like to have made time with "Grandma White". :-) Bill Shuey |
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