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Decals Manufacturers

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Billm - 27 Apr 2004 18:33 GMT
Are there any other decal manufacturers besides Accu-cal, Microscale,
Herald King and Champ.
Jon Miller - 27 Apr 2004 19:09 GMT
   There are many more but most are small outfits.  Somewhere there was a
publication that listed them all but forgot where that was.  Seems like a
whole page of them but most all reachable by smail only.  There are also
custom decal makers.
Howard R Garner - 27 Apr 2004 19:42 GMT
> Are there any other decal manufacturers besides Accu-cal, Microscale,
> Herald King and Champ.

Helald King has been out of business for many years

Champ is filling orders from stock, but is not printing many if any new
sets.  Most of the decals are availible.  Russ Myers of Champion Decals
passed away in the last year.  His family is continueing the business.
Daniel A. Mitchell - 27 Apr 2004 21:23 GMT
Champ is continuing to print popular existing sets, as well as selling
from stock. I have purchased sets from them very recently.

Less than popular items may be dropped when stock is exhausted. I don't
think there will be any new sets created unless there are some changes
in the family run business. At least they're not nearly as 'dead' as was
feared would be the case when Rich Meyer sadly passed away.

Support them. They've served the hobby well for MANY years, and
continued support from customers will likely have a LOT to do with their future.

Dan Mitchell
==========

> > Are there any other decal manufacturers besides Accu-cal, Microscale,
> > Herald King and Champ.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> sets.  Most of the decals are availible.  Russ Myers of Champion Decals
> passed away in the last year.  His family is continueing the business.
Pac Man - 28 Apr 2004 01:29 GMT
<snip>

> Support (Champ). They've served the hobby well for MANY years, and
> continued support from customers will likely have a LOT to do with their future.

   I might use 'em again if their product wasn't such crapola.  Sure, they
do a lot of stuff that others don't (mostly steam, IMHO), but their decal
quality is just sad.  I had to put two layers of white Champ decals on a
black model for it to actually be white, otherwise they were grey (IOW,
their opacity is poor).  Yellow on green is just as bad (and I would want to
decal a model twice because...?)  The immursion is full sheet and the
thickness of armor plate.  And, to top it off, the printing is neither crisp
nor is it uniform in thickness (at least, in the dozen sets I have used).
   I wish somebody would take over his artwork and print them on a modern
decal machine on modern decal paper, as there is nothing wrong with the
artwork, just in the way it's made.

Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************
Daniel A. Mitchell - 28 Apr 2004 16:12 GMT
The quality of their sets does vary. The artwork for some sets is VERY
old, but some have been updated. They are vastly better than most of the
old Walthers' decals, the only other company that made an extensive line
of pre 1960's decals.

Their decals are often superior to Microscale, which tend to be thick
and often incorrect (they ARE more opaque, it's true). Sometimes their
ink is thicker than their decal film, producing almost a raised letter
effect. The thick glossy film of Microscale decals is often hard to hide
with thin overcoat sprays. IMHO, the opacity of the champ decals isn't
much of an issue, as 'pure' 'solid' colors are usually too intense for
modelwork, especially if weathering is later desired. If white turns out
gray against a black background, that's often desirable anyway, and
saves the need for a black or gray mist to tone the decal down. Yes, it
CAN be a problem, but rarely is a big one.

Proper use of decal setting solutions will cause a Champ decal (and many
others) to conform well to irregular surfaces, or stick well to 'flat'
surfaces. A gloss finish, while preferable, is NOT necessary for good
decal adhesion with a decent decal. Decals can even be applied to rough
real wood surfaces and made to adhere, and the film nearly disappear.
One of the worst errors many make is to overcoat a decal BEFORE it has
been made to adhere to the surface. This assures a mess, with 'white' or
'silvered' decal film that looks terrible at some light angles.

The long gone Herald King decals were famous for disintegrating as soon
as they hit the water. Their quality control was TERRIBLE! Their decal
film was so thin it was sometimes nonexistant. Champ decals RARELY do this.

The film of very OLD decals of any make often 'yellow', and it gets
brittle. Except on the lightest surfaces these can often still be used
by very 'tight' trimming, minimizing the visible film surrounding the
lettering (a good idea anyway).

Nothing is perfect, but Champ decals, as a group, are average or above
for the model RR hobby, and they are 'the only game in town' for about
90% of what I model.

That's how I 'sees' it anyway.

Dan Mitchell
==========

> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Weather Or No Go New Haven
> *************
Pac Man - 28 Apr 2004 18:37 GMT
> The quality of their sets does vary. The artwork for some sets is VERY
> old, but some have been updated. They are vastly better than most of the
> old Walthers' decals, the only other company that made an extensive line
> of pre 1960's decals.

   That goes without saying.  :-)

> Their decals are often superior to Microscale, which tend to be thick
> and often incorrect (they ARE more opaque, it's true).

   Microscale's reputation is that they have the thinnest decal film in the
business (and I would have to agree with that by my experience).  Champ
decal film by comparison is very heavy.
   And they are "often incorrect"?  Which set(s) is/are incorrect (they
have well over 1000 sets these days)?  Microscale touches up older decal
sets constantly, and if something is wrong, I'm sure they will try to
correct it.

> Sometimes their
> ink is thicker than their decal film, producing almost a raised letter
> effect.

   One would hope that the ink is thicker than the film, since they are
silkscreening one on top of the other.

> The thick glossy film of Microscale decals is often hard to hide
> with thin overcoat sprays.

   Huh?  Are you sure you are not talking about Champ, here?  :-)  Because
my experience has been 180 degrees from what you have said.

> IMHO, the opacity of the champ decals isn't
> much of an issue, as 'pure' 'solid' colors are usually too intense for
> modelwork, especially if weathering is later desired.

   That's kind of a stretch, isn't it?

> If white turns out
> gray against a black background, that's often desirable anyway, and
> saves the need for a black or gray mist to tone the decal down. Yes, it
> CAN be a problem, but rarely is a big one.

   Heh.  Try mixing Champ decals with custom decals like I did.  Don
Manlick custom decals using our club logos are bright white on a black
hopper, while the data decals from Champ are grey!  What a mess.  Then, try
to mix them in with factory painted models, who all have bright white or
yellow ink on them while any Champ product is faded out grey.
   Or, better, put yellow decals on a green model, and see how they look.

<snip>

> Nothing is perfect, but Champ decals, as a group, are average or above
> for the model RR hobby, and they are 'the only game in town' for about
> 90% of what I model.

   I'm glad I don't play in that game.  ;-)  Microscale and Accu-cals makes
most everything I need (New Haven), and I'm glad I don't have to mess with
Champ every time.

Paul A. Cutler III
**************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
**************
Daniel A. Mitchell - 29 Apr 2004 14:21 GMT
Obviously we've had differing experiences.

Thin decal films are easier to hide, but more delicate to work with.
Thick films are more work to disguise (see my other recent post on
sanding overspray coats), but more robust to position and work with. The
worst for thin film problems were the old Herald King decals ... I swear
these sometimes had NO film at all. Just set them in the water and the
whole decal would DISSOLVE or turn to floating dust ... lettering and all.

Decals in general, Champ, Microscale, and all the others tend to be
quite variable.  This applies to both the blank film they print on
(which most do NOT make themselves), the paper (which comes with the
film), and the ink application that the decal manufacturer DOES do
themselves (or hires done). As for Microscale and Champ. I've had to
deal with both too thick and too thin films from both of them.

The thickness of both the film and the ink layers greatly affects the
final result. More ink makes a more opaque, but inevitably thicker,
decal. The ink itself can make sharp raised lines in the surface, every
bit as annoying as the edges of the decal film. The effect is that of
reverse-embossed lettering. I've had that problem with several sets of
Microscale decals, but NEVER with Champ.

The age of the decal also makes a difference. The backing film may
'yellow', or become unmanageably delicate and brittle.

Good decals have NO 'adhesive' on their undersides (except to hold the
film on the paper baking). That residual adhesive should be soaked off
the separated decal BEFORE application to the model. Some poor decals,
especially 30 or so years ago, often had a layer of adhesive that they
intended one to LEAVE in place to 'stick' the decal down. You may
imagine what a MESS that was. Even if you did manage a neat application,
in a year or two the whole thing would turn white, or just crumble and
fall off. HORRIBLE!

Personally, I use BOTH Microscale and Champ, and a few other brands as
well. I don't have any real favorites among them, by make, but I like
Champ mostly for the extensive line of pre-1960 prototype sets they
offer. That's what I model, so the modern sets from any maker are of
little interest to me.

I also work with military models, and the decals for that hobby are
equally problematic.

And dry transfers are an equally variable and troublesome 'can of worms'.

Dan Mitchell
==========

> > The quality of their sets does vary. The artwork for some sets is VERY
> > old, but some have been updated. They are vastly better than most of the
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> Weather Or No Go New Haven
> **************
Jeff Sc. - 29 Apr 2004 02:01 GMT
>Except on the lightest surfaces these can often still be used
>by very 'tight' trimming, minimizing the visible film surrounding the
>lettering (a good idea anyway).

Now I've always heard you shouldn't trim decals that are individually
"set" on the paper, as that makes a sharp edge that shows vs. the
sloped edge that is already present....

Jeff Sc.
Controversy, Ga.

Don't bother to reply via email...I've been JoeJobbed.
Daniel A. Mitchell - 29 Apr 2004 14:02 GMT
For a GOOD decal, that might be true. For a 'yellowed' one, the more
film you can get rid of, the better.

Still, while a tapered edge may be more desirable than a sharp one on a
'bordering' film, if the trim is made really close there is almost NO
border at all. Then there is hardly any decal film, or edge, to try to
hide. This is not easy, and not always even possible on complex decals,
but it's often desirable to see how close you can come. REALLY good
scissors, a good light, and a good magnifier are mandatory.

Also, a good application (or more) of decal setting solution will soften
the visible edge of the decal film, making it a LOT less visible

On smooth, glossy fished items, like well maintained passenger car
sides, one friend of mine oversprays with gloss finish, lets dry, then
wet SANDS the surface to bring the overcoat down to the thickness of the
decal film, then oversprays again. Sometimes it takes a couple
applications. The result is an overcoat the same thickness as the decal
film BETWEEN the decals, and one final application over everything.
There is NO visible decal film at all, not even under 10X magnification.

As you might imagine, this is tricky work. The overcoats must be JUST
the right thickness, and the sanding must be stopped at JUST the right
moment, or the decal will be damaged. Personally, I can largely hide the
decal film with a lot less effort, but I won't claim to match his final result.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Dan Mitchell
==========

> >Except on the lightest surfaces these can often still be used
> >by very 'tight' trimming, minimizing the visible film surrounding the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Don't bother to reply via email...I've been JoeJobbed.
Bill - 27 Apr 2004 19:49 GMT
------------------------------------------------
Great Decals, a manufacturer of decals, has a list of manufacturers:

http://www.greatdecals.com/

There are several decal manufacturers listed on my favorite sites page:

http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links-pg3

Bill
Bill's Railroad Empire
N Scale Model Railroad:
http://www.billsrailroad.net
Brief History of N Scale:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/history/n-scale
Resources: Links to over 700 helpful sites:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links
Bookstore: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bookstore.html
Larry Blanchard - 28 Apr 2004 23:05 GMT
> Great Decals, a manufacturer of decals, has a list of manufacturers:
>
> http://www.greatdecals.com/

Especially some really neat oldtime decals by Art Griffin at:

http://www.greatdecals.com/Griffin.htm

Signature

Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Steve Hoskins - 27 Apr 2004 21:07 GMT
>Are there any other decal manufacturers besides Accu-cal, Microscale,
>Herald King and Champ.

Sorry to say, but Herald King went out of business a long time ago.

Accu-Cals haven't been made in ages either.

The owner of Champ retired and orders will befilled from existing
stock only, no new printing will be done.

That leaves Micro-Scale.
Pac Man - 28 Apr 2004 01:11 GMT
> Sorry to say, but Herald King went out of business a long time ago.
>
> Accu-Cals haven't been made in ages either.

   Acutally, Accu-cals is alive and well (hmm...well, alive anyway).
www.smp-mlw.com    While the webpage hasn't been updated in a while, I have
certainly not heard anything that would indicate that Georgie Bishop has
hung it up.

> That leaves Micro-Scale.

   And, totally not my point, but Micro-Scale is a different company than
Microscale.  Micro-Scale makes high quality craftsman-level kits of
buildings.  Microscale is the decal manufacturer.  www.microscale.com

Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************
Billm - 27 Apr 2004 21:16 GMT
Thanks for the info

> Are there any other decal manufacturers besides Accu-cal, Microscale,
> Herald King and Champ.
Bill McCutcheon - 27 Apr 2004 21:37 GMT
> Are there any other decal manufacturers besides Accu-cal, Microscale,
> Herald King and Champ.

At Walthers (http://www.walthers.com/), I find a couple of dozen
manufacturers when I search on "decal."
-- Bill McC.
Pac Man - 28 Apr 2004 01:12 GMT
> Are there any other decal manufacturers besides Accu-cal, Microscale,
> Herald King and Champ.

Highball Graphics, Oddball Decals, Manlick (custom maker).

Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************
Mark Mathu - 28 Apr 2004 04:00 GMT
> Manlick (custom maker).

Besides custom decals, Don Manlick produces a limited number of stock decal
sets, mainly of upper midwest lines (CNW, DMIR, GBW). Send a #10, stamped,
self addressed envelope to DM Custom Decals, 2127 South 11th Street,
Manitowoc, WI 54220-6513 to get a price list and ordering information.
 
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