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Model Forum / General / Railroads / November 2004Freight Depot for passengers??
Hi.. Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up as a passenger station. Passenger traffic would be minimal during the once-a-day departure and arrivals and freight traffic at the depot would be coordinated so as not to interfere...or vice verse? I bought the, "Golden Valley Freight Depot", and I'm hoping to avoid having to buy the, "Golden Valley Passenger Station". Since I am president and CEO of the shortline, I know I can do what I want but I don't want to subject myself to ridicule by my overly critical nosey body buddies. Thanks so much for your comments! Mike Picture Rocks, AZ The "typical" passenger station has a low level platform (and uses a baggage cart to interface with the height of the baggage car door), provision for interior waiting during inclement weather, heat, and usually, space for the sale of tickets and a telegraph office. The "typical" freight station has a high level platform to facilitate loading into freight cars, larger doors, and does not always have provision for a manned office. But as you say, it's your RR, and the passenger traffic is light. You could add a length of low level platform (could just be clean ballast held in place by a rectangle of ties or similar timbers) next to the end of the freight house with the "people" door, and as I don't see a chimney in the picture in the Walthers catalog, add a stack (use some old plastic sprue painted black) for a pot belly stove at the "people" end of the building. You might also add a bench along the side of the freight house under the roof eaves to ease the wait for your passengers. These sort of additions would "sell" the building as a dual service structure. Gary Q > Hi.. > Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Mike > Picture Rocks, AZ > Hi.. > Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks so much for your comments! Passengers don't stack as neatly as most freight! Passengers need toilet facilities. Passengers need ticketting facilities. Passenger stations generally include the office facilities needed locally by the railroad. Freight depots generally aren't on the through lines. (to avoid blocking the line for the extended periods needed to load/unload wagons) Regards, Greg.P. On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:18:53 UTC, axipolti@yahoo.com (Michael P Gabriel) wrote: 2000 > Hi.. > Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the, "Golden Valley Freight Depot", and I'm hoping to avoid having to > buy the, "Golden Valley Passenger Station". In a situation like this the railroad would normally use a combination depot, i.e. one building containing the freight house and a waiting room with a ticket counter and restroom(s). There is a house track alongside the freight platform to allow one or more freight cars to be spotted for loading and unloading. If passenger traffic is very light you can get away with a simple shelter for passengers atttached or unattached to the freight depot.  Signatureernie fisch > On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:18:53 UTC, axipolti@yahoo.com (Michael P > Gabriel) wrote: 2000 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > If passenger traffic is very light you can get away with a simple > shelter for passengers atttached or unattached to the freight depot. Passengers being accommodated in a freight depot would require the areas accessable to the public to be separated from the freight. One couldn't allow passengers to have access to the freight while the railway was responsible for it. The freight area would probably only be use during normal single shift working hours while passengers could be there at any hour. On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 23:00:48 UTC, Gregory Procter <procter@ihug.co.nz> wrote: 2000 > Passengers being accommodated in a freight depot would require the areas > accessable to the public to be separated from the freight. One couldn't > allow passengers to have access to the freight while the railway was > responsible for it. The freight area would probably only be use during > normal single shift working hours while passengers could be there at any > hour. They were separated. There was a wall between the freight room and any passenger accomodations. In small depots the local agent probably operated the freight house along with many other duties. He could open the freight house at odd hours if necessary. Train crews might also have access to the freight house at off hours, i.e. have a key to the freight room. Signatureernie fisch > In a situation like this the railroad would normally use a combination > depot, i.e. one building containing the freight house and a waiting > room with a ticket counter and restroom(s). There is a house track > alongside the freight platform to allow one or more freight cars to be > spotted for loading and unloading. ... and the Walthers Golden Valley Depot is actually a combination depot. If you look at the illustration of the model in the link below, you can see that the near side of the structure is for passengers (note the passenger door on the side o the structure leading to the tracks), while the far side of the building beyond the bay window isthe freight side (note the large freight door instead of a passenger door and the freight cart on the platform). http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2808 The two areas are separated for security reasons, as Gregory Procter pointed out. The bay window in the middle is where the station agent would work. He/she would be responsble for relaying train orders from the central dispatcher to the train crew, as well as serving as the passenger ticket saleman and freight agent - in the case of a combination depot in a small town. I don't think the Walthers Golden Valley Freight House is very well set up to serve as a combination passenger station at a low-traffic area. First, the exterior doors are freight doors, plus there is no location for a station agent. It seems to me that the Golden Valley Freight House is actually laid out to represent a depot in a larger town, a town with enough traffic that the freight operations would be relocated to a completely separate building. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2828 But stranger things have occurred, and I'm sure there's a prototype for everything... Even if the town had a separate freight house, there could still be a combination depot, the "freight" section used for baggage and Railway Express (remember, before there was UPS and Fed-Ex most parcels traveled as baggage via REA). Don -- don.dellmann@prodigy.net http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com co-moderator: SCENERY@Yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > In a situation like this the railroad would normally use a combination > > depot, i.e. one building containing the freight house and a waiting [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > But stranger things have occurred, and I'm sure there's a prototype for > everything... axipolti@yahoo.com (Michael P Gabriel), In a message on 7 Nov 2004 10:18:53 -0800, wrote : MPG> Hi.. MPG> Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up MPG> as a passenger station. Passenger traffic would be minimal during the MPG> once-a-day departure and arrivals and freight traffic at the depot MPG> would be coordinated so as not to interfere...or vice verse? I bought MPG> the, "Golden Valley Freight Depot", and I'm hoping to avoid having to MPG> buy the, "Golden Valley Passenger Station". MPG> MPG> Since I am president and CEO of the shortline, I know I can do what I MPG> want but I don't want to subject myself to ridicule by my overly MPG> critical nosey body buddies. MPG> MPG> Thanks so much for your comments! It has been said that there is a prototype case for just about *everything*. There is probably nothing really wrong with a using a freight depot for a vary minimal passenger station. *Amtrak* uses what is in fact a bus shelter at Pittsfield, MA. This is a shelter made from clear Plexiglas with an aluminum (?) frame -- three sides and a roof, planted on a concrete slab. Off the top of my head (I've not measured it!) it looks like maybe 15'x3'x8' tall. You could probably make something like this from some clear styrene sheet, with styrene shapes in the corners painted silver. Plant it in a slab of Hydrocal colored with a concrete pigment that you 'poured' next to the tracks. This would be your passenger station and platform. I googled for "Pittsfield, MA train station" and found: http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/stationphotos/PIT/pit.html Just cobble together some clear styrene sheet into this sort of 'bus shelter' deal, plant it next to your freight depot and keep a printout of the above webpage handy for when your "overly critical nosey body buddies" stop by... The Pittsfield, MA stop is serviced by one train in each direction each day. Something like 2-5 people get on or off typically. There are (obviously) no station amenities -- just a place to stand to be out of the 'weather' (rain, snow, wind, etc.). I'm assuming in your case, much the same is the case. MPG> MPG> Mike MPG> Picture Rocks, AZ MPG> \/ Robert Heller ||InterNet: heller@cs.umass.edu http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || heller@deepsoft.com http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153 Gregory Procter <procter@ihug.co.nz>, In a message on Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:47:39 +1300, wrote : GP> GP> > Hi.. GP> > Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up GP> > as a passenger station. Passenger traffic would be minimal during the GP> > once-a-day departure and arrivals and freight traffic at the depot GP> > would be coordinated so as not to interfere...or vice verse? I bought GP> > the, "Golden Valley Freight Depot", and I'm hoping to avoid having to GP> > buy the, "Golden Valley Passenger Station". GP> > GP> > Since I am president and CEO of the shortline, I know I can do what I GP> > want but I don't want to subject myself to ridicule by my overly GP> > critical nosey body buddies. GP> > GP> > Thanks so much for your comments! GP> GP> Passengers don't stack as neatly as most freight! GP> Passengers need toilet facilities. GP> Passengers need ticketting facilities. GP> Passenger stations generally include the office facilities needed locally GP> by the railroad. Tell this to Amtrak -- Amtrak has many stations that have none of the above facilities. GP> Freight depots generally aren't on the through lines. GP> (to avoid blocking the line for the extended periods needed to load/unload GP> wagons) Sometimes, there is a parallel siding or two to the main line, used for loading/unloading freight cars. This siding could also be used to load/unload a few passengers, from a 'bus shelter' platform. GP> GP> Regards, GP> Greg.P. GP> GP> \/ Robert Heller ||InterNet: heller@cs.umass.edu http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || heller@deepsoft.com http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153 > Gregory Procter <procter@ihug.co.nz>, > In a message on Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:47:39 +1300, wrote : [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Tell this to Amtrak -- Amtrak has many stations that have none of the > above facilities. Yeah but I am lead to believe they don't offer a "service". People waiting for extended periods are going to need to relieve themselves, whether or not a facility is provided. > GP> Freight depots generally aren't on the through lines. > GP> (to avoid blocking the line for the extended periods needed to load/unload [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > loading/unloading freight cars. This siding could also be used to > load/unload a few passengers, from a 'bus shelter' platform. A low level platform beside the main line would be preferable access. > Hi.. > Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up > as a passenger station. No, not at all. I've just finished reading about the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton, their facility in Ironton was a combination depot, freight house and division office all in one. The road also used it's Burt Street freight house in Springfield as a passenger station. No doubt there were other examples. Mark & Michael, The combination depot or a freight house with a passenger facility would have been common especially on shortlines, branch lines or at smaller towns. A good example is the TM station at Rosser TX that we discussed how the sloped exterior wainscot might be modeled. This is basically a freight house with a station section at the west end. The main ran by on the south side and a siding track ran on the north side. Cars could load and unload from platforms with freight doors on either side. The east end also has a freight door with a platform that extended between the tracks with a ramp. It also appears from foundation remnants that there may have been a platform on the north side of the siding track. There is a ramp on the north side of the station and there probably was one the south side as that was rebuilt with wood stairs and a platform over the crumbled original concrete. Its obvious this place was set up to handle a good bit of freight. Most likely team track type operations were active at the station too. I can imagine several cars spotted on the siding by the station and several more east of them with a passenger train on the south side. Freight would be moving in and out on the north and east, passengers and baggage on the south and team track loading or un loading going on to the north and west. Bruce >> Hi.. Would it be totally out of reality for a freight depot to double up >> as a passenger station. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > freight house in Springfield as a passenger station. No doubt there were > other examples. > Mark & Michael, The combination depot or a freight house with a > passenger facility would have been common especially on shortlines, > branch lines or at smaller towns. I thought that was probably the case. Combination stations were and are quite common elsewhere in the world, but I didn't have much information about their prevalence in the US. Thanks for filling us in! All the best, Mark. |
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