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Model Forum / General / Railroads / November 2004Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained.
Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. The model railroad community has directed much criticism toward the producers of the recent Polar Express movie for inaccurately portraying the workings of the steam locomotive in advertisements for the movie's spin-off products. In a surprise press release today, the Polar Express producers apologized for those inaccuracies, but explained that they were necessary due to exorbitant demands of licensing fees from the Union Pacific and CSX railroads to use their patented designs of the steam locomotive mechanical configuration. Although those patents have long expired, and are considered to be in the public domain, UP and CSX are demanding that all who portray such designs in their work pay exorbitant fees. Additionally, UP and CSX claim complete ownership of all works incorporating their mechanical designs.  SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of LEGO bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. Salvé Ken Rice <no@email.ads> skrev i diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:eZopd.4582$Rs2.2256@trnddc03... > Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > exorbitant fees. Additionally, UP and CSX claim complete ownership of all works > incorporating their mechanical designs. Dear Ken, What sort of valve gear did the loco use? It sounds a bit dodgy considering the film version can only have valve gear on one side :) haev they patentd a one sided valve gear too? Beowulf >> Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. [snip] >What sort of valve gear did the loco use? It sounds a bit dodgy considering >the film version can only have valve gear on one side :) haev they patentd a >one sided valve gear too? Yes, as a matter of fact...but MTH beat UP and CSX to that marvel of engineering. :^) > Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > works > incorporating their mechanical designs. This sounds extremely suspicious - like urban lore. >> Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. >> The model railroad community has directed much criticism toward the >> producers [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >This sounds extremely suspicious - like urban lore. It's not urban lore until it appears on http://www.snopes.com SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of LEGO bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. >It's not urban lore until it appears on http://www.snopes.com or urbanlegends.com Jay website URL: members.aol.com/orphantrainlocos/index.html All the world's a stage - and everybody's a critic. Jay wrote: or urbanlegends.com Jay website URL: http://members.aol.com/orphantrainlocos/index.html ----------------------------------------------------- Orphan trains, eh? A great idea, Jay. Best wishes for every success! Bill Bill's Railroad Empire N Scale Model Railroad: http://www.billsrailroad.net Brief History of N Scale: http://www.billsrailroad.net/history/n-scale Model Railroad Bookstore: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bookstore Children's Books and Toy Trains: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bookstore-4 Resources--Links to 1,000 sites: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links >Orphan trains, eh? A great idea, Jay. Best wishes for every success! It all got started because _I_ felt like building a Baldwin DT6-6-20 after seeing it at Illinois Railway Museum. I took some key measurements during the winter and made some drawings. I then shelved those drawings for about 10 years. I dug them out summer before last and had a go at it. I then talked to a guy at the LHS, who is real Alcohaulic, who said "Build me one...no, two!". I'm in the process. Now, that left with two hoodless shells, so Athearn kindly "donated" a GP7 hood for my "Katy" Baldwins, so almost nothing went to waste on those 2 projects. The RS1325 got started when I saw the article in the July 2000 (?) issue of Trains. I thought it was kind of cute, and being a two-off, I figured I could model the entire production run. Now I'm into the North Shore Line (CNS&M), and being a true wirehead, I have to have the freight locomotives. By all accounts, the old brass models run for crap, so I'm going to have a try at building my own gearbox based on Athearn parts. This can hopefully let me get the prototypical 6'6" wheelbase instead of 7' that is typical of the SPUD and other underfloor motors. Another method is to use an N scale EMD SD truck with the center wheels removed. That ends up almost exactly 6'6". The problem is then to get it out to 16mm gauge. Mike Bauers of Cream City Traction has been investigating that particular problem. No word yet on his success or failure. As I plan to be heading back to college soon (ITT Tech), time will be at an absolute premium. Jay website URL: members.aol.com/orphantrainlocos/index.html All the world's a stage - and everybody's a critic. > >Orphan trains, eh? A great idea, Jay. Best wishes for every success! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "donated" a GP7 hood for my "Katy" Baldwins, so almost nothing went to waste on > those 2 projects. I would be interested in Pennsy other than GG1. I could have some production facilities out here.... Jim Stewart "Randy Sweeney" >> ............................ the Polar Express producers apologized for >> those >> inaccuracies, but explained that they were necessary due to exorbitant >> demands >> of licensing fees from the Union Pacific and CSX railroads to use their >> patented designs of the steam locomotive mechanical configuration. Bunk. Since when does anyone still own the patents to Stephenson, Baker, Walschaert et al valve gear? Some people will believe anything. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway (Site now back up and working) http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ Since when did UP or the Chessie Still eXperimenting take patent on Lima's Berkshire. Sounds like a bunch of greedy bastards. | > exorbitant fees. Additionally, UP and CSX claim complete ownership of all | > works | > incorporating their mechanical designs. | | This sounds extremely suspicious - like urban lore. Reads like someone is yanking some legs on this group! Satire guys, satire. CTucker NY > | > exorbitant fees. Additionally, UP and CSX claim complete ownership of > all [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Reads like someone is yanking some legs on this group! ....and very successfully, I would say ;-). > Satire guys, satire. > Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > exorbitant fees. Additionally, UP and CSX claim complete ownership of all works > incorporating their mechanical designs. Care to explain this in light of the fact that Pere Marquette 1225 was the model for the loco in the movie? Is PM in any way connected with UP or CSX? Hm? Signaturede Jack N2MPU FN20 Modeling the NYC and NYNH&H in HO and CP Rail and D&H in N Proud NRA Life member addy: jackn2mpu@monmouth.com PM became part of the C&O, which is now CSX. CSX claims to own all prior heralds. Charles > > Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the model for the loco in the movie? Is PM in any way connected with UP > or CSX? Hm? > PM became part of the C&O, which is now CSX. CSX claims to own all prior > heralds. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>the model for the loco in the movie? Is PM in any way connected with UP >>or CSX? Hm? Heralds are a form of trademark, and are a totally different issue than gnereic steam loco design features. Dan Mitchell ============ This whole thread is just a joke anyway. But the poster asked if PM was connected to CSX. It is and that is what I answered. The issue is not steam design. It's all a joke anyway. > > PM became part of the C&O, which is now CSX. CSX claims to own all prior > > heralds. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Dan Mitchell > ============ > Care to explain this in light of the fact that Pere Marquette 1225 was > the model for the loco in the movie? Is PM in any way connected with UP > or CSX? Hm? I can only postulate that many peoples' sense of the absurd has been so totally ravaged by four years, and four to come, of a financially profligate "conservative" regime, that they can't realize when their legs are being pulled. Luckily American folk wisdom only specifies what to do with people who can't take a joke and not those who don't get one. SignatureSteve Our representative government today is perhaps more representative than it has ever been before in history. It is not necessarily representative _per capita_, but it most surely is _ad valorem_. - Fred Pohl & C. M. Kornbluth, "The Space Merchants" [1953] > > Care to explain this in light of the fact that Pere Marquette 1225 was > > the model for the loco in the movie? Is PM in any way connected with UP > > or CSX? Hm? Yes. C&O (now part of CSX) owned the PM when I worked for the B&O (also owned by C&O) in the mid-60s. I don't know when it was bought. SignatureRobert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883 bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac] rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office] >>Polar Express Inaccuracies Explained. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the model for the loco in the movie? Is PM in any way connected with UP > or CSX? Hm? Well, PM was part of the C&O, which merged into CSX, so there is a relationship. Still, this thread seems like hokum. There's little or nothing on PM 1225 that ever was a C&O patent feature. Most is stock Lima, or generic steam loco practice, and the patents for which have LONG since run out (most probably 50 years or more ago). Dan Mitchell ============ > Still, this thread seems like hokum. There's little or nothing on PM > 1225 that ever was a C&O patent feature. Most is stock Lima, or generic > steam loco practice, and the patents for which have LONG since run out > (most probably 50 years or more ago). Is it hard to walk with one leg that much longer than the other? SignatureSteve "The liberties of the people never were nor ever will be secure when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry >> Care to explain this in light of the fact that Pere Marquette 1225 >> was the model for the loco in the movie? Is PM in any way connected [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Still, this thread seems like hokum. There's little or nothing on PM > 1225 that ever was a C&O patent feature. No, but just about everything on it <was> designed by the Advisory Mechanical Committee in conjunction with the three big builders and the specialty suppliers. All of the Van Sweringen controlled roads - C&O and PM included - used the AMC design locos. So when I read the first post I was inclined to take it at face value, since there is a relationship, however tenuous, between PM and CSX... As for the movie, I won't be seeing it - I can't stand Tom Hanks. It sounds a little far-fetched that UP/CSX would be claiming patent rights on something as common as the Walshaert valve mechanism. If they had patents on some of the parts, they have long expired. It's like claiming royalties on the design of a coal scoop. Ian Mathers Yellowknife Salvé Ian G. Mathers <imathers@internorth.com> skrev i diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:41aae875@news.tera-byte.com... > It sounds a little far-fetched that UP/CSX would be claiming patent rights > on something as common as the Walshaert valve mechanism. If they had [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ian Mathers > Yellowknife No US company could own Waelshaerts mechanism patents or heusinger as it is also known, W was Belgian and H German (Preussian I think) no more than they could own Adams or Robertson or Gooch grab link patents :) Beowulf > Polar Express producers apologized for those inaccuracies, but explained > that they were necessary due to exorbitant demands of licensing fees > from the Union Pacific and CSX railroads to use their patented designs > of the steam locomotive mechanical configuration Ken, I loved it, but please: tell folks it was a joke. It's obvious that the Bush/Pinocheney campaign and the War on Everything has exhausted the capacity of people to comprehend irony and satire. SignatureSteve "With the Bush-Cheney presidency, it appears that mendacity has become policy." - John Dean, "Worse Than Watergate", p. 136 >> Polar Express producers apologized for those inaccuracies, but explained >> that they were necessary due to exorbitant demands of licensing fees >> from the Union Pacific and CSX railroads to use their patented designs >> of the steam locomotive mechanical configuration >Ken, I loved it, but please: tell folks it was a joke. It's obvious that >the Bush/Pinocheney campaign and the War on Everything has exhausted the >capacity of people to comprehend irony and satire. Yes, as many other folks have said, it is a joke. And it seems to have been a good one. I wonder how many more folks will miss the humor of it? SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of LEGO bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. |
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