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Model Forum / General / Railroads / January 2005



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Scratchbuilding plans from photos

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Scott - 18 Jan 2005 04:59 GMT
Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
like to build.  I would like to get the measurements as close as possible to
actual by using the photos.

Any website articles or suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks,

Scott
Bruce Favinger - 18 Jan 2005 05:47 GMT
Scott,
   When building from a picture find something that you can fairly well
determine the height and width of like a door, window, laps on siding,
bricks or something next to the building. From that you can estimate
everything else. Draw your structure with basic details like windows and
doors on some card stock or heavy paper. Cut it out to make a mock up and
see if it looks right. If it looks right then its about as close to accurate
as you can get without actual dimensions.  Bruce

> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Scott
Gregory Procter - 18 Jan 2005 07:23 GMT
> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
> like to build.  I would like to get the measurements as close as possible to
> actual by using the photos.
>
> Any website articles or suggestions would be helpful.

You can use the standard artist's perspective alignment system.

1. find the horizon in the photograph. (preferably on an enlarged photocopy :^)
Draw this line in.
2. hopefully your subject will have recognisable vertical and horizontal lines.
Check that the vertical lines are vertical to the page and at right angles to
the horizon line.
If the verticals are not at right angles to the horizon then you have a double
correction to make to the scale drawing.
3. Extend the identifiable horizontal lines out to the horizon line. For a
rectangular building or piece of rolling stock these lines should intersect the
horizon at two points, one to the left and one to the right of the center. If
not, then you've almost certainly done or got something wrong.
4. Now pick something that you know the size of. (eg a door)
Measure the picture dimension - you now have a ratio prototype/photo. You can
measure up the line of the door to calculate the height of the wall. (provided
the vertical lines are parallel)
5. Finding a length that recedes towards the horizon is more difficult.
An entirely rectangular wall is about the only way to calculate this, but if it
doesn't exist, you can construct one on your paper through those extended lines.
You will know the front corner height, the door and wall height (near the
middle), and the rear corner height. These may well be your perspective
construction lines rather than the object itself.
6. If your maths isn't university geometry level then you can divide the length
of the wall into rectangles in proportion to the height. (the ratio of height to
length has to remain constant for straight lines :-)

If a photograph of (say) a tall building is taken from street foot path level,
the vertical lines will  converge towards the top. Then you have a more complex
mathematical problem!

Regards,
Greg.P.
Colin 't Hart - 18 Jan 2005 10:51 GMT
> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
> like to build.  I would like to get the measurements as close as possible to
> actual by using the photos.

Out of curiousity, can you post a photo? I want to build a scratchbuild
a yard tower too -- something similar to the one in Bakersfield, CA,
shown on page 9 of Trackside Scenes You Can Model.

Cheers,

Colin
mindesign - 18 Jan 2005 11:50 GMT
I don't believe this is a binaries group so posting a pic would be a no-no
or did you mean "can you email me your pic"?

Steve

>> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based
> on
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Colin
Scott - 18 Jan 2005 12:18 GMT
RailPictures.net is a great resource for train photos.

Atlanta Terminal station yard
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=89830

>> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based
> on
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Colin
pickle - 18 Jan 2005 14:19 GMT
> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Scott

Depending on how tall the structure is, I saw this web site where a
person was doing just what you want to do.

He fabricated a 40 foot long pole that was collapsible.
When fully extended, he painted marks at 1 foot intervals on this pole.
He then had a friend stand next to the full size structure that he
wanted to model.  The guy stood with the pole alongside the building and
was photographed.  The result was a series of photographs of the
building with the graduated pole next to it.
He then used these photos to accurately build his model to perfect
scale.  He know exactly how many feet long or tall each surface was that
he wanted to build.

I'm sure the site is still around but I don't have time to look for it.

Google is your friend.
Joe Ellis - 18 Jan 2005 15:49 GMT
>> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
>> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
>> like to build.  I would like to get the measurements as close as possible to
>> actual by using the photos.
>>
>> Any website articles or suggestions would be helpful.

I recently did an N-Trak module of Huffman Prairie, the Wright Brothers'
flying field in Dayton, Ohio. (there was an interurban line that ran right
along the edge of the field...) To get my scaled dimensions from photos, I
simply took a yardstick and put some of that flexible magnetic tape on the
back of it. On the front, I used a magic marker to blacken the top and
bottom halves in an alternating pattern. The last two feet I did in 6 inch
segments. The first foot was a bit different: the first inch was divided
in half, the next 5 inches alternated, then the last 6 inches was a single
segment done like the last two feet.

When you take your pictures, make sure the yardstick is horizontal or
vertical, and take your photos as close to normal to the side of the
structure as possible.

To scale the pictures, I used a graphics program that allowed me to scale
the photos. Once I determined the dimensions from the original photo, I
sized the photo to those dimensions and then printed them "full scale" for
my templates.

Signature

Joe Ellis

Glen Smith - 31 Jan 2005 02:12 GMT
A similar idea for close up work is to use a folding wooden rule. The old
fashioned kind that everyone used until the advent of the retractable steel
rules in use today. You can still buy the folding ones, in fact I bought one
at a dollar store for, you guessed it, 1$. There are of course better
quality ones still available from Lufkin and Ridgid.

Paint it in a pattern as described below and you have a measuring stick that
can be carried around in your pocket. Since these are usually only about
1/2" wide, they aren't practical for measuring buildings but great for
details like windows. You can also add magnets for attaching to railcars
etc.

Glen Smith

> >> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
> >> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Joe Ellis
Greybeard - 18 Jan 2005 17:10 GMT
>> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
>> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>Google is your friend.

Sometimes hints can be found, in one instance, knowing that the road
is 3 foot NG gave me a dimension that I could use to get others, and
go from view to view, always having something to scale from.  Seeing
that the bracing was at 45 degrees told me that each bay was as high
as it was wide, 2 bays giving me the total height.  Door heights being
more consistant than door widths, they're a good place to start.
Bricks, I'd be careful there, they can vary from one location to
another.  Cement block is pretty safe.  IF you can find anything in
the picture that is known somewhat close, then a fair representation
can be taken from that.  Might not be perfect, but usually close
enough.

Greybeard
Jeff Scherb - 19 Jan 2005 20:17 GMT
What I do when I'm working from photos is import the photo into Visio.  I
set the scale of the page to 1:87 (or whatever scale is appropriate to fit
on a page).  Then I resize the photo on the page until some known dimensions
(like doors) are the right size.  Then I place the photo on it's own layer
in the drawing and lock that layer, and "trace" the photo, drawing it to
make my plans on another layer.

Some of these drawings were done from photos as described above:

http://www.modelrailroadingmag.com/html/TracksidPenn2.htm

jeff

> Can someone provide me with tips on how to draw HO scale plans based on
> photos of a structure?  I have several photos of a yard tower that I would
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Scott
3D@electricrailroad.com - 20 Jan 2005 16:22 GMT
>What I do when I'm working from photos is import the photo into Visio.  I
>set the scale of the page to 1:87 (or whatever scale is appropriate to fit
>on a page).  Then I resize the photo on the page until some known dimensions
>(like doors) are the right size.  Then I place the photo on it's own layer
>in the drawing and lock that layer, and "trace" the photo, drawing it to
>make my plans on another layer.

Many photo programs allow for perspective distortion correction.  With
photos of flattish surfaces like walls, you can almost avoid having to
draw plans at all.  

When working with historical structures that no longer exist, and are
only minimally photographed, perspective correction saves a lot of
work.
Scott - 21 Jan 2005 04:30 GMT
I have Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0.  I found the "Perspective"
transformation. But I am not sure what I am supposed to do to get a 2-D wall
plan.  Can you please provide some specifics on what steps to take?  If not
specific to Photoshop, then perhaps some general idea of what to change.

As an example, here is a link to an example picture that I mentioned in a
previous posting in this thread.
   Atlanta Terminal station yard  (
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=89830 )

Thanks!!

Scott

> Many photo programs allow for perspective distortion correction.  With
> photos of flattish surfaces like walls, you can almost avoid having to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> only minimally photographed, perspective correction saves a lot of
> work.
3D@electricrailroad.com - 21 Jan 2005 19:54 GMT
>I have Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0.  I found the "Perspective"
>transformation. But I am not sure what I am supposed to do to get a 2-D wall
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Scott

I don't have that program.  In Serif Photoplus, I use the distort tool
and grab a corner and stretch it, then another corner, and so on until
I get both ends of the wall more or less vertical, and all the window
casings more or less horizontal.  I then eyeball the
horizontal/vertical ratio and tweak it.  One aspect of that is it is
possible to do selective compression for a model, while still
retaining the overall look.  I'm sure there is a scientific way to
insure an accurate rendition, but I'm too lazy to try to figure that
out.

The photo you suggested has some extreme distortion, so it didn't peel
back as nicely as a photo that was only off by a few degrees.  I
played with it for ten minutes and ended up with these.
<http://www.electricrailroad.com/bandl/Tower1.jpg>
<http://www.electricrailroad.com/bandl/Tower2.jpg>

Note that there are visual cues that make the image still seem
twisted.  The AC supports are still at an angle and the air
conditioners are offset.  The further away from the plane of the wall,
the weirder things get.  Lens distortion and curves or projections can
also give some odd results.

You can also use a program like the freeware PhotoModeler lite to take
a number of photos of the same building and force them into a 3D
virtual model.  I think you can download it from here:
<http://freehomepages1.tripod.com/freewarevrml.html>
If not, just do a web search for it.  I got my copy a few years back.
There is a learning curve, and the process is time consuming, but I
suppose it could be worth the effort in some cases.

>> Many photo programs allow for perspective distortion correction.  With
>> photos of flattish surfaces like walls, you can almost avoid having to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> only minimally photographed, perspective correction saves a lot of
>> work.
 
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