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Model Forum / General / Railroads / July 2005Athearn to release re-tooled MDC RS-3 this year
Folks: Just to let you all know, Athearn will be producing a re-tooled RS-3 using the MDC model before the end of 2005. Here is a list of modifications and upgrades that they are working on for the old unit that was "leaked" to me with permission to post them on the 'net: Modify that stack so that both versions can be produced Improve bell - multiple options Add window glazing New brakewheel Pilot options (open or with a small pilot) Fuel tank options Improved air tank castings Steam generator options Headlight options New plastic handrails Brass air horns Etched fan grille No word yet on a drive upgrade, seperate grabs or DCC ability, but I hope to get more info as time goes on. If Athearn gets this right, they will have the best plastic RS-3 model on the market. Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* > Just to let you all know, Athearn will be producing a re-tooled RS-3 > using the MDC model before the end of 2005. Here is a list of modifications > and upgrades that they are working on for the old unit that was "leaked" to > me with permission to post them on the 'net: <snip> > If Athearn gets this right, they will have the best plastic RS-3 model > on the market. What's wrong with the Atlas model? I was just thinking about reserving one in BN colours. Cheers, Colin "Colin 't Hart" <cthart@yahoo.com> wrote in message > What's wrong with the Atlas model? I was just thinking about reserving > one in BN colours. In my opinion, there isn't a whole lot wrong with their latest RS3! It uses Golden White LEDs, has a DCC socket - about the only thing I can think of is that the handrails look a little too thick... now, if they'd only do an RS2, with the "fishtank" lenses, I'd be in heaven! If Life-Like could bring the quality of their Proto 1000s up to Atlas Classic standards, the upcoming RSC2, RS3 and RSD4/5 would really be great! I personally don't see why Horizon feels it's necessary to get into an already crowded market, especially when all they plan is a retooling!?  SignatureFrank Eva http://www.trainweb.org/dccmodels/ > If Life-Like could bring the quality of their Proto 1000s up to Atlas > Classic standards, the upcoming RSC2, RS3 and RSD4/5 would really be > great! Actually, it's only the RSC2 that's a Proto 1000 - the other 2 are Atlas models. Sorry for the confusion! SignatureFrank Eva http://www.trainweb.org/dccmodels/ > > If Life-Like could bring the quality of their Proto 1000s up to Atlas > > Classic standards, the upcoming RSC2, RS3 and RSD4/5 would really be > > great! > > Actually, it's only the RSC2 that's a Proto 1000 - the other 2 are Atlas > models. Sorry for the confusion! Sorry for not reading this post before I posted my reply! :-) BTW, the RS-3, with 1370 units, was the 7th most produced diesel, according to http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRdieselchrono.html Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* > In my opinion, there isn't a whole lot wrong with their latest RS3! It uses > Golden White LEDs, has a DCC socket - about the only thing I can think of is > that the handrails look a little too thick... now, if they'd only do an RS2, > with the "fishtank" lenses, I'd be in heaven! There are several flaws in the Atlas RS-3 model as mentioned in my other post. It is also quite limited to only late-model RS-3's or rebuilds that had the twin sealed beam head light and water cooled turbo stack. > If Life-Like could bring the quality of their Proto 1000s up to Atlas > Classic standards, the upcoming RSC2, RS3 and RSD4/5 would really be great! Life-Like is doing all that? Must have missed that announcement. > I personally don't see why Horizon feels it's necessary to get into an > already crowded market, especially when all they plan is a retooling!? A re-tooling of an already accurate shell will only make a better model than anyone else's. And I don't know if you noticed, but accuracy counts these days. Athearn is doing pretty well with their Genesis F-units, and there are so many of those on the market. The Atlas shell is looking decidedly long in the tooth these days... Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* > A re-tooling of an already accurate shell will only make a better model > than anyone else's. Paul: I don't have one of the current MDC RS-3s, so forgive me if I misunderstand something here... doesn't it sound like the improvements are mainly on the add-on details (bell, windows, fuel tank, handrails) and the basic RS-3 carbody casting won't be changed? Then again.. if it's right-on already, no need to change that. I certainly welcome the improvements... - Mark > Paul: I don't have one of the current MDC RS-3s, so forgive me if I > misunderstand something here... doesn't it sound like the improvements are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I certainly welcome the improvements... Mark, Here's an updated list of improvements to the MDC RS-3: Modify that stack so that both versions can be produced Improve bell - multiple options Add window glazing New brakewheel Pilot options (open or with a small pilot) Fuel tank options Improved air tank castings Steam generator options Headlight options New plastic handrails Brass air horns Etched fan grille Separate grabs made of formed wire Hood will be modified so that the cab doesn't appear solid DCC ready with a plug The single beam head light will be like the Genesis F-unit headlights: a minibulb w/reflector behind a lens. The twin sealed beam will again be minibulbs, but like the GP35, SD60, etc., instead. Weight will be added if they can fit it in around the various parts and electronics. They are apparently going to offer two kinds of steam gen. stacks. The shutters on the side will be re-cut to improve their looks (but not see-through). A cooling fan on the top will be visable through the screen. Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* > What's wrong with the Atlas model? I was just thinking about reserving > one in BN colours. While the Atlas still has a great drive, it's off on the shell. The exhaust stack is tapered, the cab is a foot off of where it should be on the body, the curved grabs on the corners aren't curved, and the body door louvers are all too small. Also, IMHO, the radiator fan housing is too tall. Not to mention that the Atlas model is only good for those RS-3's that had twin sealed beam headlights and a water-cooled turbo, and the choices for accuracy are not nearly as good as will be the Athearn RS-3. Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* When I stopped buying MDC because I thought it was inferior merchandise, my opinion of them was pretty low. Their diesels were klunky and didn't run well, their shay kit was a NIGHTMARE! In short I thought MDC stuff was crap. They are going to have to REALLY go the distance to change that opinion. Unless it is of the Genisis category when finished, it won't be given a second notice by me. I am not shooting the messanger here, just expressing my feelings on the subject. John > Folks: > Just to let you all know, Athearn will be producing a re-tooled RS-3 [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Weather Or No Go New Haven > ************* Dear folks: Now, that's not quite fair. Their rod engines are really good AND reasonably priced; at least the kits are. You just have to take a little care in assembling them. I just wish more hobby shops around here would stock fun stuff like them instead of the usual selection of 6 Bachmann cheapies, a Bachmann consolidation, a Bachmann tank switcher, and two Athearn GE diesels. Cordially yours, Gerard Pawlowski I agree with some work the rod locos are good models. I built an SP 4-6-0 from one of their kits and I had people ask me if it was a brass loco. The boxcabs I saw run sounded like meat grinders and the RS' did nothing for me. John > Dear folks: > > Now, that's not quite fair. Their rod engines are really good AND > reasonably priced; at least the kits are. You just have to take a > little > care in assembling them. > When I stopped buying MDC because I thought it was inferior > merchandise, my opinion of them was pretty low. Their diesels were klunky > and didn't run well, Well, mine ran alright compared to an Athearn, but not compared to an Atlas. Also, IIRC, didn't MDC only make three diesels? The Boxcab, the RS-3 and the Critter? And the Critter is a really nice model and runs very well for a diesel with only 4 wheels. > their shay kit was a NIGHTMARE! True, but irrelevant to the RS-3. > In short I thought MDC > stuff was crap. If the RS-3 had come out in the 1960's, it would have been hailed. But because it arrived in the 1980's, it suffered in comparison to the Atlas drive, which is what sold everyone on Atlas. > They are going to have to REALLY go the distance to change > that opinion. Unless it is of the Genisis category when finished, it won't > be given a second notice by me. Well, I have an update for the RS-3 info. The drive will be the same as used in their other RTR models, there will be seperate grabs formed out of wire, and the shell will be modified so that the cab will be see-through. It will also be "DCC Ready". There will be no interior and no Genesis drive. Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* why doesn't someone offer a modifcation to either the Atlas or forthcoming Athearn model so you can model the re-engined by EMD versions of these engines that Katy, Frisco and CNW had. > > When I stopped buying MDC because I thought it was inferior > > merchandise, my opinion of them was pretty low. Their diesels were klunky [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Weather Or No Go New Haven > ************* >> their shay kit was a NIGHTMARE! > > True, but irrelevant to the RS-3. If it's the same manufacturer (MDC), then that has relevance. Remember the saying: "the acorn doesn't fall far from teh tree." > >> their shay kit was a NIGHTMARE! > > > > True, but irrelevant to the RS-3. > > If it's the same manufacturer (MDC), then that has relevance. Remember the > saying: "the acorn doesn't fall far from teh tree." Just like it matters that Bachmann and Life-Like still make junky toy train set-type locos and cars yet still make great running, well detailed first rate models. Just because it has the same company name on the box does not mean that they are the same quality. Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* On 3/11/05 1:18 AM, in article BDbYd.928$qf2.558@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Pac Man" <cutler2@earthlink.net> wrote: > Just like it matters that Bachmann and Life-Like still make junky toy > train set-type locos and cars yet still make great running, well detailed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Weather Or No Go New Haven > ************* I don't believe that Botchmann makes great running, well detailed first rate models, aside from a FEW steamers. SignatureBrian Ehni >> Just like it matters that Bachmann and Life-Like still make junky toy >> train set-type locos and cars yet still make great running, well detailed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rate > models, aside from a FEW steamers. Well... that's Paul's point, isn't it? | >> their shay kit was a NIGHTMARE! | > | > True, but irrelevant to the RS-3. | | If it's the same manufacturer (MDC), then that has relevance. Remember the | saying: "the acorn doesn't fall far from teh tree." Since MDC, Athearn and many others shop out die cutting the acorn can fall a long way from the tree. The RS3 was cut by the same fellow (Munson? [SP?]) who did the Athearn Blomberg sideframes as well as the MDC FM boxcars And a bunch of other stuff for both MDC and Athearn at that time period. (Twenty five years ago?) The MDC RS3 suffered from kludge drives and from being the third out of the stable. The Athearn rework will keep this shell compeditative with the Atlas twenty five year old shell. CTucker NY >>>their shay kit was a NIGHTMARE! >> >>True, but irrelevant to the RS-3. > > If it's the same manufacturer (MDC), then that has relevance. Remember the > saying: "the acorn doesn't fall far from teh tree." I just don't agree that the MDC Shay was, or is, a "nightmare". Yes, it IS a "tinkerer's delight". To make a GOOD running model from it requires some skill and a lot of "TLC". I've seen it done, several times. And, until the admittedly much better Bachmann Shay came along, it was the ONLY non-brass Shay. So, if you wanted a Shay, and couldn't afford brass prices, it was the ONLY game in town, and well worth the effort. And, even now, it's a distinctly DIFFERENT Shay than the Bachmann, so there's still a place for it. NWSL offers a regear set for the MDC Shay that solves many of it's drive problems. The electrical pick-up is the other big problem. THAT is badly engineered, and needs to be reworked. There's whole booklet published on how to improve these models. Yes, it's a lot of work to do well, but you'll get a decent Shay. And, even with ALL the add ons, it'll only cost you about 1/3 to 1/2 of what a brass Shay costs. But, I agree that it's NO beginner's kit. Dan Mitchell ============ > When I stopped buying MDC because I thought it was inferior > merchandise, my opinion of them was pretty low. Their diesels were klunky > and didn't run well, their shay kit was a NIGHTMARE! A nightmare??? Hardly. The Shay kit was the first alternative to a hand crafted brass locomotive of the same type ever. I think my first one was something like $39.95 for the two trucker. I assembled three of them. One stayed home and two were for friends. All three ran much better than most other locomotives available at that time. Yes, there were some pretty small pieces, but they all fit and they all worked well when I was finished. By today's standards, they are probably pretty crude, but for their day, they were a great buy for the money. dlm Interesting because the MDC RS-3 was considered the best RS-3 on the market (above Stewart, Atlas, etc.). Then with the improved driveline, they had a really nice diesel. Charles > When I stopped buying MDC because I thought it was inferior > merchandise, my opinion of them was pretty low. Their diesels were klunky [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > John On 3/9/05 5:52 PM, in article info-96010F.18525309032005@syrcnyrdrs-01-ge0.nyroc.rr.com, "Charles Woolever" <info@existingstations.com> wrote: > Interesting because the MDC RS-3 was considered the best RS-3 on the > market (above Stewart, Atlas, etc.). Then with the improved driveline, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> John Roger that; they chucked the original drive and used one incorporating the P2K trucks and motor. MUCH better. SignatureBrian Ehni None of the RS3's Atlas, MDC or Stewart are as close to being correct as the Hobbytown RS3. Yep, that's right the 50 year old tooling of Hobbytown is more accurate than any of the newer stuff. Compared to Alco drawings it's the most accurate in terms of size hood and cab shapes and contours, placement and size of doors and louvers and most other important dimensions. The most accurate RS model is the latest RS2 from LL., but for RS3's Hobbytown has the most correct. The Kato RS2 has errors the worst is that the short hood width should be different but isn't. Now, all that being said most folks can't tell the difference until you put all four shells side by side. Interestingly enough the Atlas is the worst in terms of it's overall dimensions. The cab is wrong, both hoods aren't tall enough or long enough. Also, the tapered stack IS correct for a couple of roads that had them(can't remember which ones, but somewhere I have a couple pics.) All that being said the Atlas-kato drive kicks them all. the new LL RS2 is a close second. steve : Interesting because the MDC RS-3 was considered the best RS-3 on the : market (above Stewart, Atlas, etc.). Then with the improved driveline, : they had a really nice diesel. : Charles : > When I stopped buying MDC because I thought it was inferior : > merchandise, my opinion of them was pretty low. Their diesels were klunky [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : > : > John SignatureSteve Sillato Life; if you're not having fun, you ain't doing it right! Remember none of us get outta here alive! >None of the RS3's Atlas, MDC or Stewart are as close to being correct as >the Hobbytown RS3. Yep, that's right the 50 year old tooling of Hobbytown [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >All that being said the Atlas-kato drive kicks them all. the new LL RS2 >is a close second. One thing I always hated about the Atlas/Kato was the way the ends deflected under load and sometimes to the extent that the couplers would part! This was something you always had to fix. There were dimensional problems as noted by other posters. The Stewart suffered from some problems as well, some due to measuring a particular prototype which had been modified (plated over vents for one thing). The Hobbytowns took a lot of filing to get the flash off (except for the plastic bodied ones). The centrifugal clutch option was installed on one I sold to a friend and in an RSD 4/5 that went with it, He used to give the set to newbies switching on his layout and watch the fun . >steve > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >: > >: > John "What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist " -Salman Rushdie "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -Martin Luther King "A gentleman is a man who can disagree without being disagreeable." Anon "Revolution in Politics is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment." Ambrose Bierce "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts" - Mark Twain > Now, all that being said most folks can't tell the difference until you > put all four shells side by side. Isn't this exactly why a company like Atlas doesn't spend lots of money in r&d to improve the accuracy? Joe Consumer would never know the difference! I hate to say it, but to get the kind of accuracy some folks here want would probably require major modifications and retooling, and for what? What does Atlas get in the long run - a few more sales to the afficionados? Companies like Atlas probably figure that these buyers can just go ahead and make their own modifications. >but to get the kind of accuracy some folks here want would probably require major modifications and retooling< Of course they could have do it right the first time. You know the old a stitch in time saves nine! >> but to get the kind of accuracy some folks here want would >> probably require major modifications and retooling< > > Of course they could have do it right the first time. You know the old > a stitch in time saves nine! Frank's point is that they don't *have* to get it exactly right to satisfy a large part of the modeling spectrum (ohh.. sorry, probably shouldn't use that word in a MDC/Atlas thread). I think we know that most modelers aren't just "Joe Consumer," but there is a large part of the market that just wants a close semblance of an RS-3 that runs reliably at a reasonable price (those are countering forces, which can lead to a whole series of price/quality points), and sometimes offering a model in a greater variety of ready-to-run paint schemes can trump having the correct headlights and turbo stack. Even if they take extra pains to improve their details, the large myriad of production options and after-market improvements (The RS-3 has three generally recognized phases, correct?) will still leave the company open to criticism to a small but very vocal segment of the hobby. Unless MDC changes the louver arrangement on the car sides they will never cover all bases, and someone will always complain -- about details that are far harder to correct than just what type of horn was used on the model. <snip> > I think we know that most modelers aren't just "Joe Consumer," but there is a > large part of the market that just wants a close semblance of an RS-3 that > runs reliably at a reasonable price (those are countering forces, which can > lead to a whole series of price/quality points), and sometimes offering a > model in a greater variety of ready-to-run paint schemes can trump having the > correct headlights and turbo stack. They'll take that over nothing, or when the "good enough" is better than anyone else's effort. But if there are two models out there, one accurate, one not, more people are going to gravitate to the more accurate model these days. > Even if they take extra pains to improve their details, the large myriad of > production options and after-market improvements (The RS-3 has three [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > someone will always complain -- about details that are far harder to correct > than just what type of horn was used on the model. They "might" do the later phases, BTW. It depends on how well the Phase 1b's sell (the current MDC model). And of the 1300 or so RS-3's, only 46 were Phase II (7 roads), 250+ were Phase III. The other 1000 or so were Phase 1's. Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* SignatureFrank Rosenbaum The Gratiot Valley Railroad Club bi-annual train show and sale November 6, 2005, at the Macomb Community College Sports and Expo Center. Macomb County Michigan. Please visit our Web Site Click here: http://www.gvrr.org/ > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > these > days. They might, IF they know which is the accurate one. Personally, I would go for the better running one. "Frank A. Rosenbaum" <farosenbaum1@charter.net> wrote in message news:3QfYd.1606 > They might, IF they know which is the accurate one. Personally, I would go > for the better running one. In that respect, I think it's a big mistake if they don't put a Genesis drive in their newly retooled RS3!!! SignatureFrank Eva http://www.trainweb.org/dccmodels/ > Isn't this exactly why a company like Atlas doesn't spend lots of money in > r&d to improve the accuracy? Joe Consumer would never know the difference! I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > like Atlas probably figure that these buyers can just go ahead and make > their own modifications. It's very simple. If Atlas wants to sell more RS-3's, they are going to have to update it. They already have once to keep ahead of the competition. If Athearn makes a beautiful RS-3, then there won't be that much interest in the old Atlas model, especially if Athearn can make all the variants and Atlas cannot. BTW, they aren't selling to "Joe Consumer", they are selling to model railroaders who are expected to know the difference... Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* "Pac Man" <cutler2@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:z92Yd.496 > It's very simple. If Atlas wants to sell more RS-3's, they are going > to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the old Atlas model, especially if Athearn can make all the variants and > Atlas cannot. If that's the way it works, then its a win-win for us! > BTW, they aren't selling to "Joe Consumer", they are selling to model > railroaders who are expected to know the difference... All model railroaders are NOT afficionados (like the users of this newsgroup). I believe there are MANY folks who buy what they buy because they like how it looks - not because it's ultra-accurate. I also believe that it's this type of consumer who gets the lion's share of attention from the manufacturers. Frank >All model railroaders are NOT afficionados (like the users of this newsgroup). I believe there are MANY folks who buy what they buy because they like how it looks - not because it's ultra-accurate. I also believe that it's this type of consumer who gets the lion's share of attention from the manufacturers< Mostly true but if you notice most all of today's models are very accurate. Those that are not sell some but not in the price range that Athearn and others would like to see sales. Good example is Trix. Expensive cars with some very fatal errors. They aren't selling. Kadee's, which are very, very accurate and in the same price range, they can't keep on the shelves. Bottom line is if the cars are in the 5 to 10 dollar range they get purchased by the group who doesn't care. If they are in the $30+ range they better be accurate or they won't move! >>All model railroaders are NOT afficionados (like the users of this >> newsgroup). I believe there are MANY folks who buy what they buy because [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Mostly true but if you notice most all of today's models are very > accurate. Jeez, John... what do you want Athearn to do... offer the RS-3 in every louver configuration that Alco tried at the factory, or else completely pull the model from hobby shelves? How do you define "very accurate" with an RS-3? >How do you define "very accurate" with an RS-3?< I have no idea, it's out of my era. The comparison I used was Trix and Kadee, which are at about the same price point. >> How do you define "very accurate" with an RS-3? > > I have no idea, it's out of my era. The comparison I used was Trix and > Kadee, which are at about the same price point. 1. Athearn has not set a price point. 2. Kadee doesn't make HO locomotives. > "Pac Man" <cutler2@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:z92Yd.496 > > It's very simple. If Atlas wants to sell more RS-3's, they are going [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that it's this type of consumer who gets the lion's share of attention from > the manufacturers. I'd rather have a model that "looks right" than one that measures out correctly but looks wrong.because of some expediency of manufacture.. What I really hate is when the choice is between a dog that runs well and a beauty that doesn't! Regards, Greg.P. > All model railroaders are NOT afficionados (like the users of this > newsgroup). I believe there are MANY folks who buy what they buy because > they like how it looks - not because it's ultra-accurate. I also believe > that it's this type of consumer who gets the lion's share of attention from > the manufacturers. I mostly with you up to that last point you made. If it's the "good enough-ers" who get the "lion's share of attention", they why are these manufacturers making all these variations? Look at the Genesis F-units, or the P2K FA's or E-units. These all have factory add on detail to make them more accurate. If anything, I think the manufacturers are courting the "detail" modelers now more than ever... Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* Thanks Paul! For a useful and informative post. Athearn and MDC Roundhouse has been the backbone of my model railroad addiction and great joy since the 60's. So it is much the more bitter that I cannot buy these products anymore from my very excellant local hobby stores, nor from Walthers. Well at least there's eBay (: I'm sure that Horizon is very proud of this fine model and many others that they posess. Wish I could go and look at them and select a few for my pike. But at least Horizon will be able to admire them themselves. And probably many more to come. Please let us know about more of Horizon's new Athearn and MDC Roundhouse products. Your descriptions are well done, the models sound very appealing. We can at least enjoy them vicariously, and remember when we were able to to buy them for our collections. Best Regards, Robert Arlington VA >Folks: > Just to let you all know, Athearn will be producing a re-tooled RS-3 [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Weather Or No Go New Haven >************* > So it is much the more bitter that I cannot buy these products anymore > from my very excellant local hobby stores, nor from Walthers. You can't even to image the pain I feel because Walthers *is* my local hobby store! - Mark in Milwaukee > Just to let you all know, Athearn will be producing a re-tooled RS-3 > using the MDC model before the end of 2005. Here is a list of > modifications > and upgrades that they are working on for the old unit that was "leaked" to > me with permission to post them on the 'net: Athearn's web site has it listed at $90 retail for the undecorated model (catalog #ATH94000) due in early December. http://www.athearn.com/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH94000 |
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