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Model Forum / General / Railroads / July 2005A Preiser problem
I have a problem with Preiser/WS figure packs of six. Sometimes six is more than I need/want. For example, I could use one brown bear in my little wilderness area, but six would have to eat the train crews to survive. I would like a couple of fishermen, but six would outnumber the fish in my small stream. A couple of deer would be nice, but six would overpopulate the layout. You get the idea. Too bad there isn't a place to trade my extra figures for others' extras. Or maybe there is. I have done some trading, but there are not many N-scalers around here. Yes. I see the problem. Another packaging dilemma sort of like the hotdog and bun thing. I don't know if you can have too many fisherman. For every fish around here it seems like there are a dozen guys out to catch him. But if you can't trade your way down to appropriate numbers I think you can get away with just one brown bear. You won't need any dear because the six fisherman scared them away. You won't need any fisherman because the brown bear has run them off. You really don't even need a brown bear if you have one figure in camouflage pants with an assault rife and his dead bear hauling SUV near by. Bruce > I have a problem with Preiser/WS figure packs of six. Sometimes six is > more than I need/want. For example, I could use one brown bear in my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to trade my extra figures for others' extras. Or maybe there is. I have > done some trading, but there are not many N-scalers around here. > Yes. I see the problem. Another packaging dilemma sort of like the hotdog > and bun thing. I don't know if you can have too many fisherman. For every [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > one figure in camouflage pants with an assault rife and his dead bear > hauling SUV near by. Bruce LOL! Excellent. Anybody hunting a bear with an assault rifle is likely to find himself over the bear's mantle. >>Yes. I see the problem. Another packaging dilemma sort of like the hotdog >>and bun thing. I don't know if you can have too many fisherman. For every [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > LOL! Excellent. What, you don't think a 5.56mm round can knock down an upset grizzly? Muhahahahahaha. First of all, an assault rifle doesn't have to be 5.56mm. In fact the AK-74 fires a 7.62 cartridge, which is not the same as the NATO round, which might be useful against a bear. And no, I wouldn't trust a 5.56 mm against a grizzly, though the bear specified was a brown bear. > What, you don't think a 5.56mm round can knock down > an upset grizzly? > > Muhahahahahaha. >> What, you don't think a 5.56mm round can knock down >> an upset grizzly? >> Muhahahahahaha. >First of all, an assault rifle doesn't have to be 5.56mm. In fact the >AK-74 fires a 7.62 cartridge, which is not the same as the NATO round, >which might be useful against a bear. >And no, I wouldn't trust a 5.56 mm against a grizzly, though the bear >specified was a brown bear. I wouldn't trust "a" 5.56mm round against a grizzly either. I would use the entire clip.  SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. Hmm. Pure rivet counting here, but an assault rifle fires bullets contained in a magazine. The magazine is often loaded from a clip or stripper clip which holds five or ten rounds. (It's been awhile since I've loaded an M-16 magazine.) >>>What, you don't think a 5.56mm round can knock down >>>an upset grizzly? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I wouldn't trust "a" 5.56mm round against a grizzly either. I would use the > entire clip. > Hmm. Pure rivet counting here, but an assault rifle fires bullets > contained in a magazine. The magazine is often loaded from a clip or > stripper clip which holds five or ten rounds. (It's been awhile since > I've loaded an M-16 magazine.) Used to be a 20 round magazine that you weren't supposed to put more than 16 rounds in ... IIRC. Paul >>>>What, you don't think a 5.56mm round can knock down >>>>an upset grizzly? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> I wouldn't trust "a" 5.56mm round against a grizzly either. I would use the >> entire clip. SignatureExcuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts. Working the Rockie Road of the G&PX Modern ones hold 30. The old 20 rounders could normally hold 19 easily, and they seem to have solved the 20 round double feed problem. >>Hmm. Pure rivet counting here, but an assault rifle fires bullets >>contained in a magazine. The magazine is often loaded from a clip or [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>I wouldn't trust "a" 5.56mm round against a grizzly either. I would use the >>>entire clip. > Modern ones hold 30. The old 20 rounders could normally hold 19 easily, > and they seem to have solved the 20 round double feed problem. You could get 20 in them but, it stressed the aluminum magazine. After a while it wouldn't feed the next round (near the end of the magazine) enough and you had a jam. Usually at an inconvienient moment. >>>Hmm. Pure rivet counting here, but an assault rifle fires bullets >>>contained in a magazine. The magazine is often loaded from a clip or [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>>I wouldn't trust "a" 5.56mm round against a grizzly either. I would use the >>>>entire clip. SignatureExcuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts. Working the Rockie Road of the G&PX "I wouldn't trust "a" 5.56mm round against a grizzly either. I would use the entire clip." Given that there have been cases where .357 magnum slugs have bounced off a bear's skull I wouldn't expect a dozen or two 5.56 rounds to do more than piss off the bear. Eric Eric said the following on 7/20/2005 1:35 PM: > "I wouldn't trust "a" 5.56mm round against a grizzly either. I would > use the entire clip." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Eric Just wait til he opens his mouth to bite your friend. Hit him in a soft spot. ;-) Kirk >And no, I wouldn't trust a 5.56 mm against a grizzly, though the bear specified was a brown bear.< Years ago I had a discussion with an Alaskan about the best weapon to use against a grizzly. Me knowing nothing about the bear and not being a hunter suggested I would like a 44 mag (probably from the Dirty Harry shows). His comment was, Your dead! > Years ago I had a discussion with an Alaskan about the best weapon to > use against a grizzly. Ma Deuce! SignatureSteve "First of all, an assault rifle doesn't have to be 5.56mm. In fact the AK-74 fires a 7.62 cartridge, which is not the same as the NATO round, which might be useful against a bear." No it doesn't. The AK-47 uses a 7.62x39 mm cartridge. The AK-74 uses a 5.45 x39mm cartridge. http://www.sovietarmy.com/small_arms/ak-74.html http://izhmash.udm.ru//ak74.html Eric Yep, you are right. In any event, my point is that "assault rifle" is a nomenclature, like "flat car." Just like all flat cars don't have to be 40 feet long, an assault rifle doesn't have t be 5.56mm. In any event, the Soviet 7.62 mm assault rifle cartridge is nothing like the 7.62mm NATO. > "First of all, an assault rifle doesn't have to be 5.56mm. In fact the > AK-74 fires a 7.62 cartridge, which is not the same as the NATO round, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Eric > Yep, you are right. In any event, my point is that "assault rifle" is a > nomenclature, like "flat car." Just like all flat cars don't have to be [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> http://www.sovietarmy.com/small_arms/ak-74.html >> http://izhmash.udm.ru//ak74.html AKM is the later soviet rifle. Fires 7.62 semi automatic or automatic 30 rounds. Sniper rifle is SDV. dragunov 10 rounds. This is adaptable to APC and command car mounts. Same AMMO (&.62) in belts and clips fits various light, heavy and combo with tripod or bipod mounts and modified mounts. The heavy has a longer barrel and a 1000 meter range. It also fires 250 rpm (the entire round belt in a minute). Bear gets snack faster if it can run with 250 rounds in skull....It weighs 60 pounds, Rambo. Reference FM 30-40 Jim Stewart "AKM is the later soviet rifle. Fires 7.62 semi automatic or automatic 30 rounds." The AKM is a cheaper redesigned version of the AK-47 with the stamped sheet metal versus the original's machined forgings. Also a plastic magazine and a laminated versus solid wood stocks. They're both 7.62 x 39 mm. The AK[S]-74 is the later family of soviet assault rifles. They use a 5.45 x 39 mm carttridge. "Sniper rifle is SDV. dragunov 10 rounds. This is adaptable to APC and command car mounts. Same AMMO (&.62) in belts and clips fits various light, heavy and combo with tripod or bipod mounts and modified mounts. The heavy has a longer barrel and a 1000 meter range. It also fires 250 rpm (the entire round belt in a minute). Bear gets snack faster if it can run with 250 rounds in skull....It weighs 60 pounds, Rambo. " The Draganov uses the 7.62 x 54R. It's rimmed cartidge unlike the rimmless AK(S)-47/AKM(S) It uses a magazine not a belt. It is not adaptable to vehicle mounts. The PK, PKS, PKB, PKT and PKM family of soviet belt feed medium machine guns are the ones that operate off vehicles. The only thing it has in common with the Dragunov is the 7.62 x 54R cartridge. Eric Eric, I think that Jim snipped something as the SDV is not a machine gun, as you mention, which the rest of the paragraph describes. BTW, the Browning .50 machine gun has been used as a sniper rifle when fired on semi-automatic. > "AKM is the later soviet rifle. Fires 7.62 semi automatic or automatic > 30 rounds." [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Eric So what is the scale caliber? 0.00762? My calculations show a 06 would be .0035" in H-0. Roger Aultman > So what is the scale caliber? 0.00762? > So what is the scale caliber? 0.00762? Reminds me of typos/ignorance marks in several mysteries/thrillers I've read that refer to things like a ".9 mm automatic" or a ".20 mm cannon" - obviously some doofus who thought that if it's .38 caliber or .50 caliber, it must be .9 mm or .20 mm Still out of scale for HO, though . . . SignatureSteve Steve wrote: "Reminds me of typos/ignorance marks in several mysteries/thrillers I've read that refer to things like a ".9 mm automatic" or a ".20 mm cannon" - obviously some doofus who thought that if it's .38 caliber or .50 caliber, it must be .9 mm or .20 mm" I've actually come across serious news articles which have done this. It's always fun sending them an e-mail to tell them how clueless they are. It's almost as much fun as correcting the news people who have refered to British intelligence as M sixteen. ;-) Eric Maybe heading this back towards modeling of some sort, back when I was a kid, Aurora came out with a 1/48th model of a U.S. Army "howitzer tank" which was a model of a self-propelled howizer, perhaps the early M-109 or M-108. I really can't remember. I'm here to tell you that a self-propelled howitzer is not a tank. > Steve wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Eric I agree. But it's important to correct fallacies. Think of how many years people believed the 'if it doesn't have dynamic brakes it's a GP7 if it does, it's a GP9' thing. Well if you don't know any better, if it runs on tracks it's a tank. Remember in WWII every tank was a Tiger and all artillery were 88s. A 1/48 scale SPH? If one had an O scale layout and were modeling the right era they would make interesting loads. I always get annoyed when some idiot gets on the news and refers to an military plane as a fighter jet. Especially if they are standing in front of an A-10. They sound like a ten year old. By no one ever accused the press of being smart, particularly the broadcast contingent. Eric "Maybe heading this back towards modeling of some sort, back when I was a kid, Aurora came out with a 1/48th model of a U.S. Army "howitzer tank" which was a model of a self-propelled howizer, perhaps the early M-109 or M-108. I really can't remember. I'm here to tell you that a self-propelled howitzer is not a tank." I'm probably wrong on the scale. IIRC, the Aurora plane models were 1:48, but their armor models were much smaller. And yes, "figher jet" has bothered me the last few years, just like "WMD" when refering to chemical and biological agents since neither are. Supppsedly they are mass casualty weapons, or MCW. I tend to disagree. > I agree. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > or M-108. I really can't remember. I'm here to tell you that a > self-propelled howitzer is not a tank." GM wrote: "And yes, "figher jet" has bothered me the last few years, just like "WMD" when refering to chemical and biological agents since neither are. Supppsedly they are mass casualty weapons, or MCW. I tend to disagree." I've always thought that B-52s carpeting bombing from 30,000 feet is much more likely to create mass causulties. Eric > I always get annoyed when some idiot gets on the news and refers to an > military plane as a fighter jet. Or more so, some idiot refers to an antisubmarine warfare aircraft with a side-by-side two seat cockpit and a couple more crew positions as a "fighter jet" - and the idiot who climbed out of it wearing a borrowed flight suit as the "pilot", even though he lost his pilot qualification decades before in shadowy circumstances (hard to pee in a cup at a flight physical when you snorted coke at a party a week before) and at any rate was NEVER, EVER, carrier qualified. SignatureSteve What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam. Or at least his Daddy did for him. > "howitzer tank" Or hairspray mannequins - er, uh, local TV "reporters" - calling cartridge cases left at a crime scene "bullet shells". SignatureSteve > First of all, an assault rifle doesn't have to be 5.56mm. In fact the > AK-74 fires a 7.62 cartridge, which is not the same as the NATO round, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Muhahahahahaha. Using a 7.62 wouldn't be much better than the 5.56. While the AK round is 30 caliber, it doesn't have enough "punch". Recommended caliber for bear is 300WinMag. You misunderstood. The 7.62 NATO cartridge is much more powerful than the 5.56 used by the M-16. >> First of all, an assault rifle doesn't have to be 5.56mm. In fact the >> AK-74 fires a 7.62 cartridge, which is not the same as the NATO round, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > is 30 caliber, it doesn't have enough "punch". Recommended caliber for > bear is 300WinMag. > Using a 7.62 wouldn't be much better than the 5.56. While the AK round > is 30 caliber, it doesn't have enough "punch". Recommended caliber for > bear is 300WinMag. I still say there's nothing wrong with a Ma Deuce - other than lugging the damn thing around. The noise alone should scare off Smokey. SignatureSteve What, you don't think a 5.56mm round can knock down an upset grizzly? Muhahahahahaha. > Anybody hunting a bear with an assault rifle is likely to find himself > over the bear's mantle. Better to use a bow, much more sporting! >>>Yes. I see the problem. Another packaging dilemma sort of like the hotdog >>>and bun thing. I don't know if you can have too many fisherman. For every [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> LOL! Excellent. SignatureExcuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts. Working the Rockie Road of the G&PX > You really don't even need a brown bear if you have > one figure in camouflage pants with an assault rife and his dead bear > hauling SUV near by. Or a bear in cammies with an assault rifle, and a dead SUV driver tied over a log nearby. SignatureSteve Support your right to arm bears. Please contribute to our fund to arm Alaskan wolves with SAM-7s to shoot down the w.nkers in light aircraft. >> You really don't even need a brown bear if you have >> one figure in camouflage pants with an assault rife and his dead bear >> hauling SUV near by. > >Or a bear in cammies with an assault rifle, and a dead SUV driver tied over >a log nearby. LOL. The "Far Side" lives. Somewhat related: At the Clearwater GATS a dealer was carrying an HO scale swimming pool with clear plastic "water" covering the pool. It occurred to me that you could put a Prieser body at the bottom of the pool and have a couple of CSI's running around processing the crime scene. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" > Steve Caple <stevecaple@commoncast.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you could put a Prieser body at the bottom of the pool and have a > couple of CSI's running around processing the crime scene. similar to this? http://www.miniatur-wunderland.de/php/galerie/pictures/01_Harz/3008.jpg http://www.miniatur-wunderland.de/php/galerie/pictures/01_Harz/81012.jpg /jw >> Steve Caple <stevecaple@commoncast.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >/jw LOL. Is that from that incredible layout in Hamburg - with all the super animation? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" > Is that from that incredible layout in Hamburg - with all the super > animation? yes. even from their home-page http://www.miniatur-wunderland.de/ ;) /jw > It occurred to me that > you could put a Prieser body at the bottom of the pool and have a > couple of CSI's running around processing the crime scene. Oh, yeah! I could make a model of my house, with a couple of CSOs on the porch outlining a pair of bodies in chalk. I'm not sure that my printer can manage the detail on the scattered pile of Watchtowers, though. SignatureSteve Actually, I would like to find the ref I had to the "sex-scenes" that Preiser? had shown earlier in the year. I've come across a couple of N-scale 60's/70's houses with a deck over the attached garage and including chaise lounges,etc. A couple enjoying "fun in the sun" would be interesting to add.... Edvardo >> It occurred to me that >> you could put a Prieser body at the bottom of the pool and have a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > porch outlining a pair of bodies in chalk. I'm not sure that my printer > can manage the detail on the scattered pile of Watchtowers, though. >Actually, I would like to find the ref I had to the "sex-scenes" that >Preiser? had shown earlier in the year. I've come across a couple of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Edvardo I think that's Noch. SignatureIan Birchenough Any url to it - I just looked and couldn't find anything. Edvardo >>Actually, I would like to find the ref I had to the "sex-scenes" that >>Preiser? had shown earlier in the year. I've come across a couple of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> > I think that's Noch. Edvardo said the following on 7/19/2005 1:33 PM: > Actually, I would like to find the ref I had to the "sex-scenes" that > Preiser? had shown earlier in the year. I've come across a couple of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>porch outlining a pair of bodies in chalk. I'm not sure that my printer >>can manage the detail on the scattered pile of Watchtowers, though. I have the Adam & Eve set from Preiser. Many positions can be achieved. A small scene and a miniature version of the Kama Sutra. There is also the nude sunbathers. They're going next to my lake with some peeping Toms nearby. Kirk In the Feb-Apr 1986 issues of Model Railroader, MR did a project layout featuring the Western Pacific in Z Scale. Do any of you know where this layout is at this time? thanks David Epling FRRS/PRM Webmaster Portola Railroad Museum http://www.wplives.org On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:32:09 GMT, David Epling <frrsweb@sbcglobal.net> said... > In the Feb-Apr 1986 issues of Model Railroader, MR did a project layout featuring the Western Pacific in Z Scale. Do any of you know where this layout is at this time? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Portola Railroad Museum > http://www.wplives.org Hi David, Sorry, don't have an answer for you, but someone here probably does: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/ WZ >>Or a bear in cammies with an assault rifle, and a dead SUV >>driver tied over a log nearby. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Mike Tennent > "IronPenguin" But, Mike, where are you going to find HO scale yellow "Crime Scene" tape to put around it? <grin> Signature=========================================================== Norman Morgan <> http://www.norm-morgan.com =========================================================== Sometimes I wake up grumpy. Other times I let her sleep. =========================================================== Norman Morgan <nmorgan@**nospam**brake.com>, In a message on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:23:04 -0000, wrote : NM> NM> NM> >>Or a bear in cammies with an assault rifle, and a dead SUV NM> >>driver tied over a log nearby. NM> > NM> > NM> > LOL. The "Far Side" lives. NM> > NM> > Somewhat related: NM> > NM> > At the Clearwater GATS a dealer was carrying an HO scale NM> > swimming pool with clear plastic "water" covering the pool. It NM> > occurred to me that you could put a Prieser body at the bottom NM> > of the pool and have a couple of CSI's running around processing NM> > the crime scene. NM> > NM> > Mike Tennent NM> > "IronPenguin" NM> > NM> NM> But, Mike, where are you going to find HO scale yellow "Crime NM> Scene" tape to put around it? <grin> That is what high-res color-inkjet printers are for.... NM> NM> -- NM> =========================================================== NM> Norman Morgan <> http://www.norm-morgan.com NM> =========================================================== NM> Sometimes I wake up grumpy. Other times I let her sleep. NM> =========================================================== NM> NM> \/ Robert Heller ||InterNet: heller@cs.umass.edu http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || heller@deepsoft.com http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153 harrym <harrym@ruraltel.net>, In a message on Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:41:16 -0500, wrote : h> I have a problem with Preiser/WS figure packs of six. Sometimes six is h> more than I need/want. For example, I could use one brown bear in my h> little wilderness area, but six would have to eat the train crews to h> survive. I would like a couple of fishermen, but six would outnumber the h> fish in my small stream. A couple of deer would be nice, but six would h> overpopulate the layout. You get the idea. Too bad there isn't a place h> to trade my extra figures for others' extras. Or maybe there is. I have h> done some trading, but there are not many N-scalers around here. One thing *I* do is save the 'extras' for future use. Until such time as your layout is 'done' (is it *every* 'done'?) there is always a possibility you'll need one of the extras. There is also breakage issues. What if something happens to your one brown bear? He falls off your little wilderness area and gets eaten by the floor daemon... What do you do? Well, you reach into your 'spare parts' drawer and get a replacement... Ditto for the deer or the fishermen, etc. I have a 400 scale foot bridge with a module at each end with a pair of fishermen on each of the modules (under each end of the bridge). I used 4 fishermen from a set of 6 and put the extra two away. More recently, I built a small 'test' track section, with a bridge. I used the two extra fishermen on this section. h> \/ Robert Heller ||InterNet: heller@cs.umass.edu http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || heller@deepsoft.com http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153 >I have a problem with Preiser/WS figure packs of six. Sometimes six is >more than I need/want. For example, I could use one brown bear in my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to trade my extra figures for others' extras. Or maybe there is. I have >done some trading, but there are not many N-scalers around here. I buy the unpainted figs and modify any which i don't need. Too many fisherman? Clip off the pole and you have a figure who can hold something or just be hanging out. Heat the deer legs and stretch them out and you have something that can be hanging from a tree or over a car fender and show it is deer season. Too many bears? How about a zoo? The figs are cheap enough (unpainted) and easy to modify so any actual "unusable" figs will be rare. Creativity solves many problems. cat "I would like a couple of fishermen, but six would outnumber the fish in my small stream." Have you ever seen those opening day human interest reports on the local news pieces where the fishermen are literally shoulder to sholder in the river? Eric |
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