Brick colored paint
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DanK - 01 Sep 2006 02:52 GMT I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've seen seem right. Too red or too glossy. Has anyone found a good brick-like color to use???? Thanks. DanK
Frank A. Rosenbaum - 01 Sep 2006 02:56 GMT I use Oxide red or Box Car red.
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> I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) > plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've > seen seem right. Too red or too glossy. Has anyone found a good > brick-like color to use???? > Thanks. > DanK David Starr - 01 Sep 2006 03:17 GMT > I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) > plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've > seen seem right. Too red or too glossy. Has anyone found a good > brick-like color to use???? > Thanks. > DanK I use spray cans of red auto primer, from the auto parts store. It is a good red with a hint of brown, very flat, will cover anything. After the paint dries you can rub some powdered white chalk into the mortar lines. You can powder plain old school blackboard chalk be rubbing it on a kitchen strainer. Be aware that Dullcote marries into powdered chalk and makes it disappear. Buildings don't get handled much so they don't really need the Dullcote to fix the chalk in place. I feel that raw unpainted plastic has too much glossy sheen to look right. If I don't paint it, I give it some Dullcote to kill the gloss. The color of prototype brick varied quite a bit from time to time and place to place. I have seen pure soft red without a hint of brown, dark brown, and every shade inbetween. The pure soft red brick is 1800's in the Northeast. Montreal is dark brown brick everywhere. Also yellow brick, popular in the 1930's to 1950's but not seen much in new construction.
David Starr
adm.nelson - 21 Sep 2006 03:01 GMT I agree with David on the auto primer. That is what I use for large walls. However, I mostly use acrylic brush on paints from Michaels or other hobby shops. They are FolkArt or Americana brands, there are plenty, that have great colors. Also, I use several of these paints, black, brown, reds etc, to individually color bricks at random. They turn out very realistic. I have seen real brick buildings downtown, and that is exactly how they look. A building with only one brick color is not realistic, maybe for the front face of some expensive building, but generally, they are always mixed colors. Hope this helps. Tony Burgess
> > I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) > > plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > David Starr David Starr - 21 Sep 2006 21:34 GMT > I agree with David on the auto primer. That is what I use for large > walls. However, I mostly use acrylic brush on paints from Michaels or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > generally, they are always mixed colors. Hope this helps. > Tony Burgess Big John Dalton used to swear by the Ceramcoat brand of acrylics from craft shops like Michaels.
David Starr
Peter W. - 01 Sep 2006 03:40 GMT > I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) > plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've > seen seem right. Too red or too glossy. Has anyone found a good > brick-like color to use???? > Thanks. > DanK Dan, in "real" world, bricks come in a wide range of colors. From gray, cream, tan to various shades of the common "red clay" bricks.
I assume that you want that avarage brownish/orangish/red color.
Polly-S used to have a color called "Venetian Red" IIRC, it was in their Fantasy Colors line. It dried flat and had very pleasing "red brick" hue. But I think it is now discontinued.
If your colors are to glossy, there are several dull clear coats available....
As far as airbrushing goes, any paint can be shot through an airbrush. Even spary can paint can be decanted and sprayed through the airbrush.
Peteski
David Nebenzahl - 01 Sep 2006 04:35 GMT DanK spake thus:
> I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) > plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've > seen seem right. Too red or too glossy. Has anyone found a good > brick-like color to use???? Here's a thought: forget model paints altogether. I've had better luck with the little bottles of acrylic craft paint you can get everywhere (in the U.S., at least), e.g., Delta Ceramcoat. They come in about a thousand colors, including some very nice brick red/terra-cotta colors, plus they're flat, not unrealistically glossy. Very easy to work with, too. And cheap.
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Sir Ray - 01 Sep 2006 14:53 GMT I think painting model brick is the only place where brush painting can work better than spray painting in terms of a finish - perhaps even a combination of spray red primer, and then thin coats of brownish read or oxide red. Of course, if the building owner has painted over the brick (common in restorations, graffitti removal, smallish 'franchise' buildings like banks or 99c stores or .. Taco Bell :p), you need not model the mortar color at all (e.g. Starting in the Koch era, NYC painted many of its brick abutment walls along highways a bright red, with white for the concrete trim - this was mainly to hide graffitti, and also mold/stains/soot etc - they seem to be keeping this up, so the abutments are still red with no morter lines). I guess for anything but a model of a very recent restoration/construction, a thin wash of black would add realism, but that applies to almost any structure - even the toniest storefronts on the 'MIracle Mile' tend to have a thin layer of dust and soot...
David Starr - 01 Sep 2006 23:54 GMT > DanK spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > plus they're flat, not unrealistically glossy. Very easy to work with, > too. And cheap. And Big John was eloquent upon the virtues of Ceramcoat.
David Starr
David Nebenzahl - 02 Sep 2006 04:34 GMT David Starr spake thus:
>> DanK spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > And Big John was eloquent upon the virtues of Ceramcoat. That's right, I forgot. My man!
 Signature In order to embark on a new course, the only one that will solve the problem: negotiations and peace with the Palestinians, the Lebanese, the Syrians. And: with Hamas and Hizbullah.
Because it's only with enemies that one makes peace.
- Uri Avnery, Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. (http://counterpunch.org/avnery08032006.html)
Dan Merkel - 05 Sep 2006 17:05 GMT I've used them quite a bit. Just be sure to get a good acrylic paint thinner to thin them with. A paint store owner friend of mine told me that water will affect the adhesion of the paint, so that isn't the best to use. I can't remember what I use right now but I 'THINK" it is a Gumbacher(?) product. It cost about $10 for a larger bottle but lasts for quite a while.
dlm
>> DanK spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > David Starr David Nebenzahl - 05 Sep 2006 18:26 GMT Dan Merkel spake thus:
> I've used them quite a bit. Just be sure to get a good acrylic paint > thinner to thin them with. A paint store owner friend of mine told me that > water will affect the adhesion of the paint, so that isn't the best to use. > I can't remember what I use right now but I 'THINK" it is a Gumbacher(?) > product. It cost about $10 for a larger bottle but lasts for quite a while. That's Grumbacher, but it's also nonsense from my experience: water works just fine. After all, that's the solvent used in acrylic paints. They adhere just fine in a thin wash as well as in a full coat.
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Wolf Kirchmeir - 01 Sep 2006 15:09 GMT > I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) > plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've > seen seem right. Too red or too glossy. Has anyone found a good > brick-like color to use???? > Thanks. > DanK Well, first off, there no such thing as "brick colour." Just go look at actual brick buildings, and you'll see what I mean. If I were you, I'd take a bunch of photos for reference. (Bonus: if you use a digital camera, you can print some of them on cardstock , cut them out, and glue them to backdrops.) Then go look at acrylic craft paints available in craft and hobby stores, etc. Pick reddish browns, the earth colours (sienna, ochre, etc) -- whatever looks close to what you've seen.
This is how I paint brick buildings. I let the paint dry thoroughly between steps. A "wash" is a very thin solution of paint, watery in consistency, and with little covering ability - almost transparent, in fact.
1) wash the plastic parts or completed model in dish detergent, and let them air dry 2) prime with a automotive red primer. A light coat is sufficient, just enough to kill the plastic shine and provide some tooth for the acrylic paint. If the plastic itself was "brick" coloured, this is often enough, got to 4. 3) add washes of suitable brick colours over the primer. Don't worry about getting an even coat, the overall impression is what counts. 4) add an overall wash of medium to light grey and let it settle into the mortar lines. Avoid white - mortar is grey! (Some owners have "improved" their buildings by painting the mortar white - if you're modelling one of those, use a heavier white wash, and gently dab the surface to pick up the white from the bricks and leave it in the mortar lines.) 5) paint details such as window frames, etc, if present. If you need to mask, use blue or green masking tape, not the beige stuff. Step 9 may be done at this time, too. 6) add washes of black and/or dark greys to simulate the effect of decades of exposure to smoke etc. Apply unevenly. Repeat as needed to create the tone you want, letting the wash touch dry between applications 9about 5-15 minutes).
The following steps are more or less optional, depending on desired effects. 7) add streaks of rust, dirt, etc from edges of window sills, etc, so simulate the effect of rain washed dirt. Use a fine brushes, and slightly heavier washes. 8) add light grey or white washes here and there to simulate efflorescence. 9) pick out areas of brick in a slightly brighter colour to show where signs have been removed, or brick has been replaced or cleaned, etc. (Study your pictures for ideas.) 10) repeat some or all of steps 7 to 10 as needed.
Similar techniques work for roofs, wooden walls, etc - just use appropriate colours. Basic rule: always prime the parts/structure first. If it's a lighter coloured one, use light grey primer instead of red.
HTH
Bob May - 01 Sep 2006 23:03 GMT Paints can be mixed to whatever color you want to have. If you're unsure of what colors to mix with what, ask a friend that is an artist painter. Next is that brick really isn't one color. Aside from the different bricks in different areas being different actual colors, weathering also changes the color of a brick. Finally, the individual bricks in a building are usually a range of colors near the basic color and this is something that you may not have noticed. After you do the basic color, you'll have to go through and temper each brick with some wash to bring out it's own color on the wall. After that, you can add in the mortar lines and weathering of the whole wall.
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Greg.P. - 02 Sep 2006 07:24 GMT > I'm looking for a brick colored paint to paint (using an airbrush) > plastic models of buildings. None of the Model Master colors that I've > seen seem right. Too red or too glossy. Has anyone found a good > brick-like color to use???? > Thanks. > DanK The colour of brick is dependent on the colour of the local clay used to make them plus a little on the means of firing. From there, brick buildings tend to last a long time so the weathering can vary from almost none through to no original colour visible. In addition, the colour of the mortar has an effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to completely weathered. This weathering lets down the initial white much quicker than it does the brick. I tend to spray with red-oxide automotive spray (I spray almost everything with red oxide =8^) then wash with a mix of white and burnt sienna acrylic for the mortar, then wipe it partially off and finally lock it on with an artist's matt varnish spray.
Regards, Greg.P.
DanK - 02 Sep 2006 12:54 GMT A big thanks to everyone who responded to my question about painting bricks. Lots of good ideas and techniques! DanK
Beowulf - 02 Sep 2006 23:34 GMT Salvé DanK <djk104@hotmail.com> skrev i diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:1157198057.295592.306970@m79g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
> A big thanks to everyone who responded to my question about painting > bricks. Lots of good ideas and techniques! > DanK Just as a matter of interest industrial bricks can and often are Blue, and if you happen to be around an RAF Aerodrome you will find that just about every brick building (pre45) is built with camoflage coloured bricks ie brown and green... just to add to the Brickie information 8). I dont know if ww2 military buildings in the USA were camoflaged this way they may not have felt the needs to considering that the only bombs dropped on the USA were from high altitude balloons , the zepplins which plagued the UK werent so high altitude and didnt need helium(2 threads!) though when I lived in York a 100kilo bomb was found at the end of the street when a house owner was demolishing an old shed in his yard... apparently the builder of the shed circa 1917 hammered a hole through one of the fins because he couldnt smack it out of the wall it had landed in and used it as a support for his tool shed........some mothers do have them...and they live....sorry about that folks bit OT posssibly unless you are modelling one of the US/RAF bases in England or Scotland that had its own railway such as RAF Halton, there were others, I believe that Halton had an Me 109 delivered by rail in 39, (My old boy trained on it...) interesting load!, anyone know of any US bases (In the UK) with internal lines? Ok there are blue and green bricks tooo..... vale Beowulf
Klaus D. Mikkelsen - 02 Sep 2006 23:40 GMT > Just as a matter of interest industrial bricks can and often are Blue, and - cut -
> Ok there are blue and green bricks tooo..... Interesting history - very interesting :-)
Thanks Klaus
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Beowulf - 03 Sep 2006 00:34 GMT Salvé Klaus D. Mikkelsen <Er.du.saa.klog@du.kan.finde.den> skrev i diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:44FA0865.87E4E1D2@du.kan.finde.den...
> > Just as a matter of interest industrial bricks can and often are Blue, and > - cut - [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks > Klaus I started typing and couldnt stop...honest! :D
åh en dansk! :) Valé Beowulf
Wolf Kirchmeir - 02 Sep 2006 15:16 GMT [...] the mortar has an
> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to > completely weathered. This weathering lets down the initial white [...] I have never, ever, seen a white mortar. I'd like to have photographic evidence a brand-new brick building with white (not light grey) mortar.)
Greg.P. - 02 Sep 2006 20:55 GMT > [...] the mortar has an >> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to >> completely weathered. This weathering lets down the initial white [...] > > I have never, ever, seen a white mortar. I'd like to have photographic > evidence a brand-new brick building with white (not light grey) mortar.) You're not trying to do a Mark Newton on me, are you? Some places here in New Zealand we have pure white/opaic sand and the mortar made with it turns out as near white as damit. The length of time that it would remain "white" would be from about the third day of drying until the first Diesel truck drove past. I agree, pure white and pure black don't exist in nature.
Regards, Greg.P.
Wolf K - 03 Sep 2006 18:36 GMT >> [...] the mortar has an >>> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Regards, > Greg.P. OK. Just goes to show that NZ is weird in more than one way... :-)
Greg.P. - 03 Sep 2006 21:37 GMT >>> [...] the mortar has an >>>> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > OK. Just goes to show that NZ is weird in more than one way... :-) Weird because we have white sand? Now that's a weird concept.
Jay Cunnington - 18 Sep 2006 01:55 GMT I'm jumping in after being absent for month or so.
For bricks I'll generally use red oxide (box car red) lightened with white to varying degrees.
Milwaukee has been known as "Cream City" since the early 20th century due to the cream-colored bricks common to the city. This is due to the chemical make-up of the local clay that was used to make the bricks. Being a rather industrial area in times past, these bricks can be found in an almost pristine cream color to stained almost black from exhaust and pollution.
Mortar around here tends to be a light gray and from a distance on the lighter cream buildings is almost unnoticeable.
Robert Small - 03 Sep 2006 11:11 GMT >[...] the mortar has an >> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to >> completely weathered. This weathering lets down the initial white [...] > >I have never, ever, seen a white mortar. I'd like to have photographic >evidence a brand-new brick building with white (not light grey) mortar.) White mortar was very common for brickwork on the "old days"
Generally it was a lime mortar, and sometimes only used for "pointing" the exterior joints.
 Signature Bob Small
Ken Day - 08 Sep 2006 05:37 GMT >[...] the mortar has an >> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to >> completely weathered. This weathering lets down the initial white [...] > >I have never, ever, seen a white mortar. I'd like to have photographic >evidence a brand-new brick building with white (not light grey) mortar.) Lots of buildings with white mortar. Check out some of the new buildings built with white brick. There are many old buildings with white mortar and...Oh , almost forgot , some of the buildings on my layout have white mortar.
Ken
Greg.P. - 08 Sep 2006 10:16 GMT Wolf likes to disagree with anything I write!
Regards, Greg.P.
>>[...] the mortar has an >>> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ken Wolf K - 08 Sep 2006 16:23 GMT > Wolf likes to disagree with anything I write! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> Ken Like I said, I've never seen a white mortar - light grey, yes, but most mortar is medium grey and even darker. In fact, many mortars are coloured to harmonise with the brick, a practice that goes back many years AFAICT. That would account for the white mortar - white brick combination (or is it a very light grey?). But so far, I've not seen a bight (not even light grey) mortar combined with dark bricks. The lightest Ive seen is medium grey with blue bricks (actually, blue/dark brown variegated.)
I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) Looked ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building.
Greg says in NZ they use a bright white sand to make mortar. I have no reason to disbelieve him. I wouldn't be surprised if some people used it with dark bricks, too. There's no accounting for taste.
Oh, I still haven't been given photographic evidence. :-)
mark_newton - 09 Sep 2006 14:44 GMT > I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) Looked > ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building. A practice known here in Australia as "tuckpointing". Very popular on California bungalow-style houses built just after WW1. It worked well on them but not on many other styles of dwelling I've seen it applied to.
> Greg says in NZ they use a bright white sand to make mortar. I have > no reason to disbelieve him. I wouldn't be surprised if some people > used it with dark bricks, too. There's no accounting for taste. > > Oh, I still haven't been given photographic evidence. :-) I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for it, either.
Greg.P. - 19 Sep 2006 21:54 GMT > > I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) Looked > > ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for it, either. Martin, you very informatively told us that in Australia there was a practice known as "tuckpointing", but you omitted to give ANY indication as to what that practice was or is. Was that simple ommission or basic stupidity?
Regards, Greg.P.
David G. Nagel - 20 Sep 2006 00:35 GMT >>> I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) Looked >>> ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Regards, > Greg.P. Tuckpointing is a process where disintegrating mortar is removed from the joints between bricks, cement blocks, rocks, tiles, etc. Fresh mortar is then pressed into the resulting void restoring the surface of the masonry to a fresh lain appearance. This is a standard practice in the building industry. Watch "This Old House" in one of it's varied appearances for further information.
Greg.P. - 20 Sep 2006 06:01 GMT >>>> I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) Looked >>>> ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > industry. Watch "This Old House" in one of it's varied appearances for > further information. Thanks; I was pointing out to Martin, who delights in picking every possible error I make, that he is not infallible. I know the process, called "repointing" here, but never heard of tuckpointing. We don't get "This Old House" here. (so far, but I guess they'll get to it eventually )^8
Regards, Greg.P.
David Nebenzahl - 20 Sep 2006 06:18 GMT Greg.P. spake thus:
> Thanks; I was pointing out to Martin, who delights in picking every possible > error I make, that he is not infallible. > I know the process, called "repointing" here, but never heard of > tuckpointing. We don't get "This Old House" here. > (so far, but I guess they'll get to it eventually )^8 You know, you really are a *f.cking idiot*. Your attitude is "if I haven't heard of it, that probably means it doesn't exist, or the person saying it is wrong."
Are all Aussies so dunderheaded?
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mark_newton - 20 Sep 2006 09:12 GMT > Greg.P. spake thus: > >> Thanks; I was pointing out to Martin, who delights in picking every >> possible error I make, that he is not infallible. I know the >> process, called "repointing" here, but never heard of tuckpointing. >> We don't get "This Old House" here. (so far, but I guess they'll >> get to it eventually )^8 > > You know, you really are a *f.cking idiot*. Your attitude is "if I > haven't heard of it, that probably means it doesn't exist, or the > person saying it is wrong." > > Are all Aussies so dunderheaded?
Hold hard, David. Procter *IS* a f.cking idiot, but he's *NOT* an Australian. He's just another dimwit from New Zealand - the poor white trash of the South Pacific.
But I quite agree with your summary of him. How he avoids getting regularly thumped for being an ignorant f.cking smartarse is beyond me. Presumably he has little contact with polite society, and thereby reduces the risk.
Cheers,
Mark.
Paul Newhouse - 20 Sep 2006 19:38 GMT > But I quite agree with your summary of him. How he avoids getting > regularly thumped for being an ignorant f.cking smartarse is beyond me. Mark,
His arrogance is only manifest from behind his keyboard.
In person he is, no doubt, the meek mouse that draws no attention what so ever. No opinions, avoids eye contact, ... you have probably overlooked him everyday for years (he only claims to be from NZ and you don't believe anything else he says, so why believe he is from NZ?).
Paul
Greg.P. - 21 Sep 2006 06:35 GMT >> But I quite agree with your summary of him. How he avoids getting >> regularly thumped for being an ignorant f.cking smartarse is beyond me. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Paul LOL.
mark_newton - 22 Sep 2006 12:39 GMT >>But I quite agree with your summary of him. How he avoids getting >>regularly thumped for being an ignorant f.cking smartarse is beyond me. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > overlooked him everyday for years (he only claims to be from NZ and > you don't believe anything else he says, so why believe he is from NZ?). One or two quirks in the way he uses English suggest that is a kiwi - plus the enormous chip on his shoulder.
Cheers,
Mark.
Greg.P. - 21 Sep 2006 06:35 GMT > > Greg.P. spake thus: > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Australian. He's just another dimwit from New Zealand - the poor white > trash of the South Pacific. Nahh, that's our Western Island, where we send all the thickoos.
> But I quite agree with your summary of him. How he avoids getting > regularly thumped for being an ignorant f.cking smartarse is beyond me. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Mark. Greg.P. - 21 Sep 2006 06:35 GMT > Greg.P. spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Are all Aussies so dunderheaded? Yes, certainly!
OTOH I'd never heard of "tuckpointing" and didn't know what was meant by the term, hence my asking what it was. It's not particularly self evident.
mark_newton - 20 Sep 2006 09:09 GMT >> Tuckpointing is a process where disintegrating mortar is removed >> from the joints between bricks, cement blocks, rocks, tiles, etc. >> Fresh mortar is then pressed into the resulting void restoring the >> surface of the masonry to a fresh lain appearance. This is a >> standard practice in the building industry. Watch "This Old House" >> in one of it's varied appearances for further information. > > Thanks; I was pointing out to Martin, who delights in picking every > possible error I make, that he is not infallible.
And neither are you, fuckwit. Far from it.
But I *DO* manage to get your name right, and more importantly, I acknowledge those times when I'm shown to be incorrect by those with more knowledge than I have. You should try it some time...
Greg.P. - 21 Sep 2006 06:35 GMT > >> Tuckpointing is a process where disintegrating mortar is removed > >> from the joints between bricks, cement blocks, rocks, tiles, etc. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And neither are you, fuckwit. Far from it. I never thought I was - well there was a moment back in 1967.
> But I *DO* manage to get your name right, and more importantly, I > acknowledge those times when I'm shown to be incorrect by those with > more knowledge than I have. You should try it some time... I'm incorrect about bricks??? I only commented on New Zealand bricks, so how wrong could I be?
mark_newton - 20 Sep 2006 09:12 GMT > *"mark_newton" <mark_newton@optusnet.com.au>* wrote in message > news:4502C536.7070301@optusnet.com.au... > >> Wolf K wrote: >> >>> I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) >>> Looked ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building. >> >> A practice known here in Australia as "tuckpointing". Very popular >> on California bungalow-style houses built just after WW1. It worked >> well on them but not on many other styles of dwelling I've seen it >> applied to. > > Martin, you very informatively told us that in Australia there was a > practice known as "tuckpointing", but you omitted to give ANY > indication as to what that practice was or is. Was that simple > ommission or basic stupidity?
Who's "Martin"? I know you're nearly blind, but can't you read message headers? Can you, in fact, read for comprehension at all?
Context, dickhead, and the Usenet convention of interleaved replies, should answer your question. Or it would, if you weren't basically stupid.
Wolf K wrote:
"I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) Looked ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building."
and I replied, in the conventional manner;
"A practice known here in Australia as "tuckpointing"."
Do you understand *NOW*?
Greg.P. - 21 Sep 2006 06:41 GMT > > *"mark_newton" <mark_newton@optusnet.com.au>* wrote in message > > news:4502C536.7070301@optusnet.com.au... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Context, dickhead, and the Usenet convention of interleaved replies, > should answer your question. Or it would, if you weren't basically stupid. Context? " >> A practice known here in Australia as "tuckpointing". "
> Wolf K wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do you understand *NOW*? So you're telling me Australians are stupid enough to waste their time painting the mortar between bricks. Is it any surprise I missed the context. Even I didn't think Aussies were that stupid!
Greg.P. - 19 Sep 2006 21:54 GMT >> Wolf likes to disagree with anything I write! >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Oh, I still haven't been given photographic evidence. :-) It's a little difficult to provide photographic evidence as there is very little genuine new brick structure building going on in NZ these days, in fact in my last ten days travelling 2,500km I didn't see any at all. I did work in the building industry in my student days (late '60s) and never ever saw any attempts to colour mortar, it was always white. From such a viewpoint I never considered that elsewhere builders would go to the trouble of colouring their mortar, but now you've brought it up I realise it's something I'd never bothered to consider or question! Of course white mortar weathers to off-white fairly quickly, but even weathered it's reasonably obvious that it started white or almost white. Steam train era brick buildings here didn't show white mortar, but I have no reason to think they started life as any other colour.
David G. Nagel - 20 Sep 2006 00:31 GMT >>> Wolf likes to disagree with anything I write! >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> grey) mortar combined with dark bricks. The lightest Ive seen is medium >> grey with blue bricks (actually, blue/dark brown variegated.) Older mortar was made with lime as a bonding agent. It wasn't until fairly recently (past 50 years or so) that mortar was gray. The gray comes from an additive derived from residue generated during aluminum production Other colors can be added during the mixing process and can be any color.
>> I have seen mortar that's been _painted_ white. (I checked.) Looked >> ghastly, but hey, it wasn't my building. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Steam train era brick buildings here didn't show white mortar, but I have no > reason to think they started life as any other colour. Wolf K - 20 Sep 2006 00:55 GMT >>>> Wolf likes to disagree with anything I write! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > production Other colors can be added during the mixing process and can > be any color. [...]
Yes, but even so, the colour of the mortar wasn't white. It's actual colour depends on the colour of the aggregate (sand) used, as well as the bonding agent. None of the houses I saw when i was growing up in England had white mortar - it was all various shades of grey.
Greg.P. - 20 Sep 2006 06:12 GMT >>>> Wolf likes to disagree with anything I write! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> Steam train era brick buildings here didn't show white mortar, but I have >> no reason to think they started life as any other colour. I can imagine. The advantage I find in getting involved in these discussions is that once in a while I learn something - AFAIK we (NZ) don't, or didn't 50 years ago, have such practices here. Sure, there's the occassional brick house with coloured mortar in recent years, but the norm here has always been variations on red-oxide bricks and (initially near) white mortar. I assumed, without putting any great thought into the subject, that the same would hold true elsewhere. I hope the reasonable individuals here won't think too badly of me for never having put in-depth thought into foreign brickwork!
BTW, I have a small stack of yellow fire bricks, gathered up from an old lime furnace demolished nearby.
Regards, Greg.P. NZ
mark_newton - 20 Sep 2006 12:51 GMT >> Greg says in NZ they use a bright white sand to make mortar. I have >> no reason to disbelieve him. I wouldn't be surprised if some people [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > very little genuine new brick structure building going on in NZ these > days... Translation: I'm a pathological liar who's been caught out YET AGAIN.
Greg.P. - 21 Sep 2006 06:47 GMT > >> Greg says in NZ they use a bright white sand to make mortar. I have > >> no reason to disbelieve him. I wouldn't be surprised if some people [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Translation: I'm a pathological liar who's been caught out YET AGAIN. Mark, old thickwit, if I supplied photos of white mortar between bricks, how would you know that they were genuine bricks and mortar and not those of some Aussie who couldn't find the airport and spent his days with a bottle of white-out beautifying his NZ house?
trek fan - 24 Sep 2006 01:01 GMT All mortor is gray unless you add color to it and the sand makes no differant in the color only the texture fine sand is the best because when you strike the wall it gives the best weather sill . White color is a pain in the a.s to lay you have to try not to get any mortor on the face of the brick or it has to be acid wash and it will fad any color mortor your laying
downtowndeco@montana.com - 29 Sep 2006 23:40 GMT My advise? Don't overdo it. In fact, I rarely even add mortar. Look at it this way. If you're looking at a model building on on your layout that is 3' away from you, you're eyes are what, hundreds of "scale" feet from your model, right? You'd be hard pressed to see the mortar on a building 300' away from you.
I liken it to trying to paint the whites in the eyes of a scale figure. Usually it's best to not even try, because it usually ends up looking worse than if you never did it to begin with.
I did this model with Ceramicoat "Georgia Clay". No mortar. Check it out.
http://www.downtowndeco.com/dd1025.htm
Ken Day - 09 Sep 2006 07:46 GMT >[...] the mortar has an >> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to >> completely weathered. This weathering lets down the initial white [...] > >I have never, ever, seen a white mortar. I'd like to have photographic >evidence a brand-new brick building with white (not light grey) mortar.) Careful what you wish for. Never know when an architect or masonry contractor may be lurking around. http://www.generalshale.com/home.php
This structure is very new and it has white mortar.
Keith - 09 Sep 2006 11:51 GMT >>[...] the mortar has an >>> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >This structure is very new and it has white mortar. Very creamy white that one, but nos 20 and 23 in the gallery are much closer to white. Keith
Wolf K - 09 Sep 2006 13:14 GMT >> [...] the mortar has an >>> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > This structure is very new and it has white mortar. Which structure? The three pix show brown and beige mortars. Just where should I click to find the building you're talking about?
Not that I doubt that some architect has specified brilliant white mortar for some building somewhere... :-)
Wolf K - 09 Sep 2006 15:09 GMT >> [...] the mortar has an >>> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > This structure is very new and it has white mortar. OK, I found it (I had javascript turned off). Do you mean the "rose tudor" brick house? The mortar isn't white - it's light beige or cream.
OK, who's next? I still want to see nice, bright white mortar. Or even very, very light grey mortar. :-)
Maybe I should offer a prize?
Or maybe we should form a club of mortar hunters. We'll go out every weekend and photograph brick wall, carefully lit (we'll bring along portable lights) to bring out the full splendor of the colours of the bricks and mortar. We could even a form a new newsgroup: alt.rec.insane.brick.and.mortar.kooks, anybody?
Hah!
fl@liner - 10 Sep 2006 15:39 GMT >>> [...] the mortar has an >>>> effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Hah! Go to the "Face Brick" page on the same site. Plenty of close up examples there.
fl@liner
This tagline has been certified to contain no political rants.
Wolf K - 10 Sep 2006 16:33 GMT [...]
>>> http://www.generalshale.com/home.php [..]
> fl@liner > > This tagline has been certified > to contain no political rants. OK, did that. The closest to pure white is Alpine White Antique, pale grey brick and matching mortar. Probably looks white in the right light, at least compared to nearby buildings.
Still not white.
Greg, do you have a photo of a NZ building with pure white mortar? If so, please post url, or post to alt.binaries.pictures.rail, as an OT post. Thanks.
fl@liner - 10 Sep 2006 18:34 GMT >[...] >>>> http://www.generalshale.com/home.php [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >so, please post url, or post to alt.binaries.pictures.rail, as an OT >post. Thanks. At what temperature Kelvin do you want the lighting? However you want to pick the nit, the mortar is (some shade of) white. Live with it...
fl@liner This tagline has been certified to contain no political rants.
Ken Day - 10 Sep 2006 21:15 GMT >[...] >>>> http://www.generalshale.com/home.php [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >OK, did that. The closest to pure white is Alpine White Antique, pale >grey brick and matching mortar. Probably looks white in the right light,
>at least compared to nearby buildings. > >Still not white. Here's a picture with a little text from the people who built the house in the picture. Is the light good enough ? I've drawn many plans for people who have used white brick and mortar, especially in the south.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/build/msg0111354114120.html?4
Incidentally, most suppliers carry white mortar. Also made with white sand here in the states just as it is anywhere else. Can't make white mortar with brown sand.
Ken
>Greg, do you have a photo of a NZ building with pure white mortar? If >so, please post url, or post to alt.binaries.pictures.rail, as an OT >post. Thanks. Wolf K - 13 Sep 2006 16:32 GMT [...]
> Here's a picture with a little text from the people who built the > house in the picture. Is the light good enough ? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ken OK, that's white enough. :-)
Now, anyone have a pic of white mortar with red or other dark brick?
Ken Day - 15 Sep 2006 07:22 GMT >[...] >> Here's a picture with a little text from the people who built the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >OK, that's white enough. :-)
>Now, anyone have a pic of white mortar with red or other dark brick? Very seldom see that combination . Sometimes inside but I don't recall ever seeing any white mortar joints with dark brick on an exterior wall. It would stain terribly with dark brick.
Ken
Greg.P. - 19 Sep 2006 22:06 GMT >>[...] >>> Here's a picture with a little text from the people who built the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > ever seeing any white mortar joints with dark brick on an exterior > wall. It would stain terribly with dark brick. Why would the mortar stain with dark bricks??? Do you also stain your clay to produce different coloured brick?
Regards, Greg.P.
David G. Nagel - 20 Sep 2006 00:37 GMT >>> [...] >>>> Here's a picture with a little text from the people who built the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Regards, > Greg.P. Yes, most clay used in bricks is red but other colors can be created using coloring.
Wolf K - 20 Sep 2006 01:01 GMT [...]
> Yes, most clay used in bricks is red but other colors can be created > using coloring. Er, the colour of the brick depends on the chemistry of the clay, and its firing temperature. Different clays fire to different colours. Most people like shades of red and brown, so most bricks are made with clays that produce these colours. Some clays fire to yellows and ochres, some even to bluish tones. Etc. One can affect te fired colour by adding iron oxide (for example), but that's not the same ad "colouring" the brick, since the same additive will produce different colours with different clays.
Ceramics is one of the most complex technologies we use.
Greg.P. - 20 Sep 2006 06:23 GMT > [...] >> Yes, most clay used in bricks is red but other colors can be created [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > produce these colours. Some clays fire to yellows and ochres, some even to > bluish tones. Etc. All those colour effects are relatively stable and will not stain the mortar.
> One can affect the fired colour by adding iron oxide (for example), but > that's not the same ad "colouring" the brick, since the same additive will > produce different colours with different clays. Iron oxide will certainly stain mortar if water can penetrate the brick.
> Ceramics is one of the most complex technologies we use. Greg.P. - 20 Sep 2006 06:18 GMT >>>> [...] >>>>> Here's a picture with a little text from the people who built the [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Yes, most clay used in bricks is red but other colors can be created using > coloring. Of course! The red comes about during the firing process as a part of the chemical reaction. Different reds through browns towards black can be created with different temperatures and firing times, in fact it's difficult to get the same precise result twice.
Greg.P. - 19 Sep 2006 22:06 GMT > [...] >>>> http://www.generalshale.com/home.php [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > please post url, or post to alt.binaries.pictures.rail, as an OT post. > Thanks. The colour of mortar is not something I'd ever questioned, here in NZ it's always been white, so I've not built up a collection of photos to illustrate differences. Of course it weathers from (pure/near) white, and as far as I know there have been very few brick buildings built in the last 20 or so years. A quick check of the yellow pages shows the bricklaying craft to be approaching zero here so I'm unlikely to find any new examples. One can get bricklike facings, but I wouldn't stoop to photographing those as evidence. 8^)
Sir Ray - 22 Sep 2006 19:52 GMT > The colour of mortar is not something I'd ever questioned, here in NZ it's > always been white, so I've not built up a collection of photos to illustrate > differences. Of course it weathers from (pure/near) white, and as far as I > know there have been very few brick buildings built in the last 20 or so > years. Really? I didn't realize that. I was in the South Island about 6 years ago, Blenheim, Greymouth, Hokkadiko, and so on (didn't get to ChristChurch), and now come to think of it most of the buildings I saw were either wood or concrete material (I may be incorrect, and would accept correction if so). There was a large open shed at the Hokkadiko freight yard which was steel and concrete block. Hmm, maybe that's the difference - where I live on long Island, the overwhelming majority of homes are either wood framed (often covered in Vinyl siding) or brick (or some combination thereof). Now in New Zealand, the private homes I saw often seemed to be of smooth-ish masonary exterior construction (like poured concrete, or plaster, or adobe[!] or what-not - I didn't give much thought to it) - I don't remember seeing a single private home in brick, where-as there are thousands right in my own neighborhood. What are most home constructed of down-under (and a bit to the right)?
Greg.P. - 23 Sep 2006 02:42 GMT >> The colour of mortar is not something I'd ever questioned, here in NZ >> it's [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > accept correction if so). There was a large open shed at the Hokkadiko > freight yard which was steel and concrete block. (Hokitika - Hokkaido is in Japan 8^)
You were on the west coast of the South Island. Those areas (I'm there right now) are a long way and a number of mountain passes from more dense population so heavier building materials such as tiles, bricks and blocks are more expensive than locally produced timber and cement. Typically homes here are timber framed and clad, with corrigated iron rooves. Brick buildings are uncommon.
> Hmm, maybe that's the difference - where I live on long Island, the > overwhelming majority of homes are either wood framed (often covered in > Vinyl siding) or brick (or some combination thereof). > Now in New Zealand, the private homes I saw often seemed to be of > smooth-ish masonary exterior construction (like poured concrete, or > plaster, or adobe[!] Most likely that is "stucco", a concrete plaster applied to a timber clad building to reduce painting requirements. My own home is poured concrete, 6" thick. An unusual method of construction.
> or what-not - I didn't give much thought to it) - > I don't remember seeing a single private home in brick, where-as there > are thousands right in my own neighborhood. What are most home > constructed of down-under (and a bit to the right)? Brick houses aren't uncommon in city areas or near rural brickworks, but concrete blocks arrived in the 1950s and steadily replaced brick in new construction. I can't recall seeing a new brick house in 20 years. However, bricks are readily available at hardware outlets so I guess there must be some somewhere.
Off the top of my head, I'd guess at 1 in 25 houses are brick in Christchurch. (that's one word BTW, no second emphasis on the first ch of church)
Regards, Greg.P.
adm.nelson - 21 Sep 2006 03:09 GMT Ah, reminded me of one other thing. I use soft pastel chalks Rembrandt or Sennelier to add "mortar". I just rub some in the brick, lick my finger and lightly rub off the surface, what you leave is a light grey or whatever color you use, in the mortar lines. Tony Burgess
> [...] the mortar has an > > effect on the overall appearance, varying from pristine white through to > > completely weathered. This weathering lets down the initial white [...] > > I have never, ever, seen a white mortar. I'd like to have photographic > evidence a brand-new brick building with white (not light grey) mortar.) David Starr - 21 Sep 2006 21:39 GMT > Ah, reminded me of one other thing. I use soft pastel chalks Rembrandt > or Sennelier to add "mortar". I just rub some in the brick, lick my > finger and lightly rub off the surface, what you leave is a light grey > or whatever color you use, in the mortar lines. > Tony Burgess I've had good luck with that technique too. In fact plain old white school black board chalk, powdered by rubbing it on a kitchen strainer gives a very nice effect. Just remember that Dullcote marries into powdered chalk and makes it disappear. Since structures don't get the handling that rolling stock does, I just omit the Dullcote.
David Starr
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