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Model Forum / General / Railroads / March 2007Train show vendors
Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. What experiences have others had with these vendors ? Anyone really been taken ? Thanks for any and all repllies. Jungle Jim spake thus: > Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and > was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. > > What experiences have others had with these vendors ? Anyone really > been taken ? I'm curious: how do you suppose one could be "taken" by a train vendor? Seriously. Seems to me pretty much a case of "what you see is what you get".  Signature"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the population into concentration camps and turn the country into a wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do that. Let ME do it.'" - Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost Authority." >Jungle Jim spake thus: >> Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and >> was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. >> What experiences have others had with these vendors ? Anyone really >> been taken ? >I'm curious: how do you suppose one could be "taken" by a train vendor? >Seriously. Seems to me pretty much a case of "what you see is what you get". There are many ways a train show dealer can "take" a customer. He can misrepresent the quality of the goods he is selling. Some buyers would know the difference, many others wouldn't. Many years ago, I bought an n-scale train kit from a dealer. This particluar kit came with a power unit, which the dealer had removed and was selling separately. I was fortunate in that I also bought the power unit. The combined price was what the complete kit normally sold for. Had a customer been unaware of the proper kit contents, they would have had a kit without a power unit. I have not seen that particular dealer at the train show since shortly thereafter. SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. > In article <4606fc66$0$30084$82264...@news.adtechcomputers.com>, > nob...@but.us.chickens says... [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, > Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. So you paid the regular price for something that you could have bought at a brick and motar hobby shop ( and the assurance of the product ) and you wonder if anyone ELSE made the same mistake ? P.T Barnum loves you ! I'm not sure anyone else would be willing to even admit to something like that. Good luck at the show. >> In article <4606fc66$0$30084$82264...@news.adtechcomputers.com>, >> nob...@but.us.chickens says... >>>Jungle Jim spake thus: >>>> Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and >>>> was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. >>>> What experiences have others had with these vendors ? =A0Anyone really >>>> been taken ? >>>I'm curious: how do you suppose one could be "taken" by a train vendor? >>>Seriously. Seems to me pretty much a case of "what you see is what you get". >> There are many ways a train show dealer can "take" a customer. He can >> misrepresent the quality of the goods he is selling. Some buyers would [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> a customer been unaware of the proper kit contents, they would have had a >> kit without a power unit. >> I have not seen that particular dealer at the train show since shortly >> thereafter. >So you paid the regular price for something that you could have bought >at a brick and motar hobby shop ( and the assurance of the product ) >and you wonder if anyone ELSE made the same mistake ? >PT Barnum loves you ! >I'm not sure anyone else would be willing to even admit to something >like that. >Good luck at the show. The kit in question was a GreenMax model kit of a Japanese commuter train. I have never seen one of these in a brick and morter store in the US, only at train shows. Mostly from the dealer I mentioned. And this happened several years before Internet sales became available. It was offered as an example of how a dealer could "take" a customer. SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. [...] > The kit in question was a GreenMax model kit of a Japanese commuter train. I > have never seen one of these in a brick and morter store in the US, only at > train shows. Mostly from the dealer I mentioned. And this happened several > years before Internet sales became available. > > It was offered as an example of how a dealer could "take" a customer. There is no law, rule, regulation or tradition that says the a dealer has to sell below suggested retail price at a show. Whatever the OP thought, paying full retail price is not IMO an example of a customer being "taken." SignatureWolf "Don't believe everything you think." (Maxine) > There is no law, rule, regulation or tradition that says the a dealer has > to sell below suggested retail price at a show. Whatever the OP thought, > paying full retail price is not IMO an example of a customer being > "taken." The common occurrence here at shows is that they are tax free events. Which saves purchasers 14% over the cost in a store. >> There is no law, rule, regulation or tradition that says the a dealer has >> to sell below suggested retail price at a show. Whatever the OP thought, >> paying full retail price is not IMO an example of a customer being >> "taken." > The common occurrence here at shows is that they are tax free events. >Which saves purchasers 14% over the cost in a store. In the US, most states do collect taxes from show vendors. Not having a slaes tax license can result in your inventory being confiscated by the state. At the shows in Maryland where I have been an occassional dealer, the state issues a one time sales tax license to dealers who don't have a standard sales tax license. SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. > In the US, most states do collect taxes from show vendors. Not having > a slaes tax license can result in your inventory being confiscated by > the state. At the shows in Maryland where I have been an occassional > dealer, the state issues a one time sales tax license to dealers who > don't have a standard sales tax license. I thought most show transactions would be considered personal transactions, not subject to taxes. (Like garage sales.) Do they make you collect sales tax on garage sales in Maryland? I'm curious how other states differ. It seems rather annoying to have to figure out the value of the item so with tax it would add up to a show- friendly dollars and quarters amount. Puckdropper SignatureWise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm >> In the US, most states do collect taxes from show vendors. Not having >> a slaes tax license can result in your inventory being confiscated by [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Puckdropper When I was co- chair of the Greenwich, CT train meet, the State of Connecticut required us to send them a vendor list two weeks before the show date. If a vendor was not registered with them, they would send a tax license application to that vendor. I complied with them and they never came or identified themselves if they did come. We also never had an incident with sales tax problems. We lost a few of the hobbyist type vendors, but the show grew and grew each year. CT had a one time fee of $20.00 for the tax license. Many vendors would include the tax in the price of the item. SignatureFrank Rosenbaum Please note my new email address: farosenbaum at comcast dot net. Please support the following train meets if you can Gratiot Valley ( www.gvrr.org ) in Macomb Michigan in March and November and the Kalamazoo Model Railroad Historical Society ( www.kmrhs.org ) at the Kalamazoo Fairgrounds in Kalamazoo MI in October. Also check out the Westchester Model Railroad Club's train meet in Greenwich CT in November and March. Visit this web site to see my bridge and the KMRHS http://tinyurl.com/7uqdr Frank Rosenbaum > In the US, most states do collect taxes from show vendors. Not having a > slaes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > one time sales tax license to dealers who don't have a standard sales tax > license. Here most of the vendors are actual stores that set up at the shows. Also, here anything and everything that the government thinks should be taxed, is. >Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and >was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. > >What experiences have others had with these vendors ? Anyone really >been taken ? I think train meets are better than something like eBay, which is really just an online rummage sale without the benefit of being able to examine the goods. Not that my eBay experience has been particularly bad. In fact it's been pretty good. But for God's sake, watch out for an eBayer named carsal30 - he seems to me to be a raging sociopath - check his reactions to negative feedback for an illustration. eBay wasn't your question, but the same type of advice applies. Like the feedback system on eBay, at a meet you should talk with other attendees and ask for experiences/opinions about vendors. If there is a Carsal30 lurking behind a table at a train meet, other attendees might be able to tip you off. I've only been to one meet so far. I took along a pair of neoprene gloves (the medical type.) If I liked the look of a car or loco I'd ask if I could examine it, with gloved hands, out of the box. If a vendor said no, I walked away. The stuff was, in all likelihood, manufactured, handled, and packaged by some Chinese worker making 20 cents an hour for God's sake. If they won't allow *you* to examine it with gloved hands, they're either paranoid or have something to hide. Most had no problem with it since they could see I had great respect for protecting the item in question. If it's a loco, or an electrical item, ask to see it test run. If they say no, walk away. Any new loco will have been test run at the factory anyway, so it isn't like a test run is going to destroy the value of the item. Same with any other electrical item. I saw many vendors with a nice, clean piece of test track. They were automatically more trustworthy in my opinion. Otherwise, does the vendor accept returns? Does he live in an area you can get to in order to make a return (or get a hold of him for a small claims court case)? Is the vendor a licensed dealer? Otherwise the factory warranty on a new item may no longer exist. That is, apparently, the way it is with Lionel at least. Oh, if you happen to be clumsy, keep in mind that the concept of "You break it, you've bought it" is illegal almost everywhere. Merchants are expected to have insurance against accidental breakage. You're sure THEY are the ones who are paranoid or have something to hide if they they won't let you use latex gloves to examine an item? I'd be leary with someone who dons gloves to examine new items. You come across as real barking mad nutcase doing that and most people probably wouldn't want to do business with out for fear that selling to you would come back to bite them in the a.s. Here's a tip. Get a bottle of hand sanitizer. I think train meets are better than something like eBay, which is really just an online rummage sale without the benefit of being able to examine the goods. Not that my eBay experience has been particularly bad. In fact it's been pretty good. But for God's sake, watch out for an eBayer named carsal30 - he seems to me to be a raging sociopath - check his reactions to negative feedback for an illustration. eBay wasn't your question, but the same type of advice applies. Like the feedback system on eBay, at a meet you should talk with other attendees and ask for experiences/opinions about vendors. If there is a Carsal30 lurking behind a table at a train meet, other attendees might be able to tip you off. I've only been to one meet so far. I took along a pair of neoprene gloves (the medical type.) If I liked the look of a car or loco I'd ask if I could examine it, with gloved hands, out of the box. If a vendor said no, I walked away. The stuff was, in all likelihood, manufactured, handled, and packaged by some Chinese worker making 20 cents an hour for God's sake. If they won't allow *you* to examine it with gloved hands, they're either paranoid or have something to hide. Most had no problem with it since they could see I had great respect for protecting the item in question. If it's a loco, or an electrical item, ask to see it test run. If they say no, walk away. Any new loco will have been test run at the factory anyway, so it isn't like a test run is going to destroy the value of the item. Same with any other electrical item. I saw many vendors with a nice, clean piece of test track. They were automatically more trustworthy in my opinion. Otherwise, does the vendor accept returns? Does he live in an area you can get to in order to make a return (or get a hold of him for a small claims court case)? Is the vendor a licensed dealer? Otherwise the factory warranty on a new item may no longer exist. That is, apparently, the way it is with Lionel at least. Oh, if you happen to be clumsy, keep in mind that the concept of "You break it, you've bought it" is illegal almost everywhere. Merchants are expected to have insurance against accidental breakage. Newyorkcentralfan@bigfoot.com spake thus: > You're sure THEY are the ones who are paranoid or have something to > hide if they they won't let you use latex gloves to examine an item? > > I'd be leary with someone who dons gloves to examine new items. Perhaps that's because you're an a.shole. I'd be grateful if it was *my* warez. Signature"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the population into concentration camps and turn the country into a wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do that. Let ME do it.'" - Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost Authority." > Newyorkcentral...@bigfoot.com spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Perhaps that's because you're an a.shole. I'd be grateful if it was *my* > warez. No soonest as the trolls "magically" disappeared from this group, we are already starting name callin' and bickerin' amongst the real on- topic posters. Come on David N. (the real one)- lighten up. IMO, latex gloved customer is a bit drastic and unusual. I can see dealers being hesitant in allowing someone to fondle the item (especially if a box is sealed). I (as a possible purchaser of the pre-fondled new item) wouldn't want to have greasy paw prints on my freshly purchased model. If I were the possible fondler, I would tell dealer that I just washed my hands, so I won't put greasy fingerprints on the item. If item is not selaed, they should let me examine it. If they refuse, then I can tell them that I can purchase items which I can't fondle on the Internet, for less money than what the show dealer charges, and just walk away. That will show this dealer that he is not a smart businessman. And I participate in many shows where I see some unscrupulous dealers trying to get top money for some poor quality older Bachmann trains and even charge several dollars a piece for individual Micro-Machines toy vehicles which are currently available at toy stores for much less money. But what can you do to stop those dealers from preying on uneducated public? Peteski Peter W. spake thus: >>Newyorkcentral...@bigfoot.com spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the pre-fondled new item) wouldn't want to have greasy paw prints on > my freshly purchased model. Excuse me, but at the risk of flogging this already dead horse, I fail to see how someone wearing protective gloves should be seen as anything but gracious to a vendor at a train show. Sure, it may be a little weird--how many people do you see walking around with latex (or vinyl, for the latex-sensitive) gloves on. But are people so goddamned paranoid that they automatically assume the worst, like that the guy must have AIDS or something? I mean, why should there be any complaint at all about such a thing? The glovee (Spender) is making sure he doesn't leave any greasy pawprints on the vendor's warez; how in the world could that be construed as a bad thing? > If I were the possible fondler, I would tell dealer that I just washed > my hands, so I won't put greasy fingerprints on the item. If item is > not selaed, they should let me examine it. With gloves, there's no need to say anything. Besides, what if you say that but the vendor doesn't believe you? "Hey, weren't you just eating a chili cheese dog over there a minute ago?" Signature"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the population into concentration camps and turn the country into a wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do that. Let ME do it.'" - Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost Authority." >Peter W. spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >that but the vendor doesn't believe you? "Hey, weren't you just eating a >chili cheese dog over there a minute ago?" As someone who has been a vendor, but has not encountered any white gloved customers, I think my reaction to such a customer would be to show him the items he was interested in, hopefully selling them to him, and afterwards making a comment about the gloves to my wife, most likely comparing him to Mr. Monk. I don't recall the about comments, but at the time an uncle was told if he voted for Goldwater, the US would be up to its neck in Vietnam. Well, he voted for Goldwater, and we were. SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. Ken Rice spake thus: >>With gloves, there's no need to say anything. Besides, what if you say >>that but the vendor doesn't believe you? "Hey, weren't you just eating a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > making a comment about the gloves to my wife, most likely comparing him to > Mr. Monk. OK, I'll bite: who is/was Mr. Monk? Please have mercy when answering and keep in mind that I grew up in the 60s in a house without a TV. I've been at a horrible disadvantage ever since. Signature"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the population into concentration camps and turn the country into a wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do that. Let ME do it.'" - Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost Authority." > Ken Rice spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > keep in mind that I grew up in the 60s in a house without a TV. I've > been at a horrible disadvantage ever since. I'll guess this is who is being referred to: A fairly current TV show "Monk" stars Tony Shalub (sp?) who is a compulsive neat freak cop who can't leave things where they are. They MUST be arranged according to his fetish. i.e. - While waiting for the doctor he mixes blood samples so they are all the same hieght in the tubes. (As if multiple blood samples would be left with, yet another, patient.) Of course, he is brilliant and solves all the difficult crimes. Paul -- Excuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts. Working the rockie road of the G&PX >Ken Rice spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >keep in mind that I grew up in the 60s in a house without a TV. I've >been at a horrible disadvantage ever since. As mentioned in the other reply. Mr. Monk is an obsessive-complusive-disorder afflicted detective in the USA Network series Monk. He is always cleaning his hands after handling things and shaking hands with other people. http://www.usanetwork.com/series/monk/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312172/ The series started in 2002 and will enter its sixth season in July. SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. >OK, I'll bite: who is/was Mr. Monk? Please have mercy when answering and >keep in mind that I grew up in the 60s in a house without a TV. I've >been at a horrible disadvantage ever since. Monk is an obessive/compulsive detective. >IMO, latex gloved customer is a bit drastic and unusual. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >my hands, so I won't put greasy fingerprints on the item. If item is >not selaed, they should let me examine it. How many times are you going to wash your hands at a train meet? Keep in mind that the merchandise can get dirt and grease on your hands. It's much easier to wipe neoprene gloves clean than to wash your hands after every loco you pick up. > >IMO, latex gloved customer is a bit drastic and unusual. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > easier to wipe neoprene gloves clean than to wash your hands after every > loco you pick up. Train shows are filthy places. Most dealers take a dump and don't wash their hands, then eat and hold your money. -- "In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the population into concentration camps and turn the country into a wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do that. Let ME do it.'" - Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost Authority." On Mar 29, 6:42?am, Spender <Spen...@Mars.org> wrote: > >IMO, latex gloved customer is a bit drastic and unusual. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > easier to wipe neoprene gloves clean than to wash your hands after every > loco you pick up. Train shows are filthy places. Most dealers take a dump and don't wash their hands, then eat and hold your money. And as a train show vendor, you speak from first (dirty) hand experience? Frank A. Rosenbaum spake thus: > On Mar 29, 6:42?am, Spender <Spen...@Mars.org> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > And as a train show vendor, you speak from first (dirty) hand experience? Frank: Please learn to recognize when you're replying to a troll. Signature"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the population into concentration camps and turn the country into a wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do that. Let ME do it.'" - Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost Authority." >> >IMO, latex gloved customer is a bit drastic and unusual. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Train shows are filthy places. Most dealers take a dump and don't >wash their hands, then eat and hold your money. I wonder who is using up all the paper towels in the dealer restroom? SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. > >IMO, latex gloved customer is a bit drastic and unusual. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > easier to wipe neoprene gloves clean than to wash your hands after every > loco you pick up. Only once (after eating that glazed donut in the moring) or maybe twice (if you have a messy hamburger and greasy fries). Not before touching each loco, silly! I haven't seen or touched merchandise at model shows that would dirty my hands enough to transfer dirt on things I touch later. Hey, if you feel that rubber gloves are the way to go, by all means wear them. But be prepared to get some strange looks from other attendees and dealers. You'll probably hear some proctologist jokes too. Bend over mister! :-) Peteski > Hey, if you feel that rubber gloves are the way to go, by all means > wear them. But be prepared to get some strange looks from other > attendees and dealers. You'll probably hear some proctologist jokes > too. Bend over mister! :-) http://f2.org/humour/songs/crs.html SignatureSteve >Hey, if you feel that rubber gloves are the way to go, by all means >wear them. But be prepared to get some strange looks from other >attendees and dealers. You'll probably hear some proctologist jokes >too. Bend over mister! :-) That's okay. None of the dealer's seemed to mind my conscientious approach. Especially when I wanted to pull a car out of the box and the plastic so I could examine both sides. It meant no fingerprints or smudges for the eventual buyer. I guess I am pretty Monk-ish about trains. I keep my own trains as flawless as possible - dusting and cleaning them regularly when they are on the track, and keeping all others stored in a dust free environment. I have no intention of ever selling them. But if I kick the bucket, and my son or daughter isn't interested in the hobby, my wife can get top dollar for them. > That's okay. None of the dealer's seemed to mind my conscientious approach. > Especially when I wanted to pull a car out of the box and the plastic so I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > son or daughter isn't interested in the hobby, my wife can get top dollar > for them. Ah, so you belong to the unweathered model train runners (natural or otherwise applied weathereing). :-) Peteski Well considering the orginal poster was complaining about the equipment being "manufactured, handled, and packaged by some Chinese worker making 20 cents an hour for God's sake." and not about getting his prints on it I have reason to not be more convinced of his mental stability. I suspect he can just use the sleeve of his white robes to pick up items he's interested in, that is, if there isn't too much soot from last night's cross burning on it. I'll assume that you us your robe sleeves in much the same fashion, barring soot, of course > Newyorkcentralfan@bigfoot.com spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Perhaps that's because you're an a.shole. I'd be grateful if it was *my* > warez. >Well considering the orginal poster was complaining about the >equipment being "manufactured, handled, and packaged by some Chinese >worker making 20 cents an hour for God's sake." and not about getting >his prints on it I have reason to not be more convinced of his mental >stability. Troll. MAJOR SNIPS > Oh, if you happen to be clumsy, keep in mind that the concept of "You > break > it, you've bought it" is illegal almost everywhere. Merchants are > expected > to have insurance against accidental breakage. Interesting news. You have citations to statute or case law so holding in jurisduictions "almost everywhere"? >MAJOR SNIPS >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Interesting news. You have citations to statute or case law so holding in >jurisduictions "almost everywhere"? Nope. I can't think in which issue of Reader's Digest it was mentioned. It was an article about browsing in antique shops and such. >>MAJOR SNIPS >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Nope. I can't think in which issue of Reader's Digest it was mentioned. It > was an article about browsing in antique shops and such. You profer legal advice from an unremembered article in he Readers Digest?!? ROTFL. >> Nope. I can't think in which issue of Reader's Digest it was mentioned. It >> was an article about browsing in antique shops and such. > > You profer legal advice from an unremembered article in he Readers >Digest?!? Sure, I recall it being well documented. It makes perfect sense if you think about it. The vendor is assuming the risk by placing merchandise out for public inspection. Another point in the article - concerning people who have fallen for the "You break it, you've bought it" scam - is that the vendor's loss is not the retail price, but the wholesale cost. If it ever happens and you're in doubt, call a cop. The cop will tell you both that it is a civil matter, not a criminal matter, and leave. > I'd be leary with someone who dons gloves to examine new items. You > come across as real barking mad nutcase doing that and most people > probably wouldn't want to do business with out for fear that selling > to you would come back to bite them in the a.s. Well, then, how about white cotton gloves like conservators and such use? I sure wouldn't want some geek putting his greasy fingerprints all over an expensively painted model. SignatureSteve "Well, then, how about white cotton gloves like conservators and such use?" That would make you appear as or more nuttier. "I sure wouldn't want some geek putting his greasy fingerprints all over an expensively painted model." If you can't handle that, try using ebay then. This is a dirty hobby. We MRs root in the dirt and have been known carry back buckets of dirt so as to have just the right color soil to accurately model a specific location. We proudly drag home rusty hunks of metal that litter the ROW of the local railroad whenever we find them. We collect bushel baskets of plant snippets to turn into trees for our layout. We toss around ground foam and other scenery materials with abandon. We mix up plaster and slop it on to our layouts. We splatter our models with paint to make them look old. We build our layouts in dusty dirt basements. Anyone who worried about a few fingerprints is in the wrong hobby. > Anyone who worried about a few fingerprints is in the wrong hobby. Ahhh, OK, I see that I've transgressed the Taco Bell Taco Grease Preservation Society's guidelines. Now that I think about it I can see that if it's a LifeLike dieseasel painted bright shiny could only be plastic red, it wouldn't really matter. SignatureSteve >Anyone who worried about a few fingerprints is in the wrong hobby. No, they are worried about collectability. You may have noticed that some of this stuff is quite expensive. >You're sure THEY are the ones who are paranoid or have something to >hide if they they won't let you use latex gloves to examine an item? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Here's a tip. Get a bottle of hand sanitizer. Did it even occur to you that the gloves are to protect the *merchandise* from dirt, oil, and fingerprints? No, I suppose something so simple wouldn't occur to a top-poster... It would have if you hadn't lanched into a racist rant about Chinese manufacturers. Go back to burning your crosses on people's lawns, redneck. > >You're sure THEY are the ones who are paranoid or have something to > >hide if they they won't let you use latex gloves to examine an item? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > No, I suppose something so simple wouldn't occur to a top-poster... Newyorkcentralfan@bigfoot.com spake thus: [rearranged to eliminate top-posting] >>>You're sure THEY are the ones who are paranoid or have something to >>>hide if they they won't let you use latex gloves to examine an item? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Go back to burning your crosses on people's lawns, redneck. If by "racist rant" you mean this that Spender posted > [...] The stuff was, in all likelihood, manufactured, handled, and > packaged by some Chinese worker making 20 cents an hour for God's sake. If > they won't allow *you* to examine it with gloved hands, they're either > paranoid or have something to hide. then I think you may be mistaking for racism what is really a pretty cogent comment on the Brave New World Economy, in which Chinese workers really do slave for 20 cents an hour producing our steamers and such. SignatureI hope that in a few years it [Wikipedia] will be so bloated that it will simply disintegrate, because I can't stand the thought that this thing might someday actually be used as a serious reference source. Because in its current form, it's not to be taken seriously at all. - Horst Prillinger (see http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/blog/archives/2004/06/000623.html) Spare me the bullshit, David. There was nothing to mistake. The context that the ethnicity of the manufacters was mentioned in was clearly racist and defamatory. > > It would have if you hadn't lanched into a racist rant about Chinese > > manufacturers. > > > > Go back to burning your crosses on people's lawns, redneck. If by "racist rant" you mean this that Spender posted [...] The stuff was, in all likelihood, manufactured, handled, and packaged by some Chinese worker making 20 cents an hour for God's sake. If > they won't allow *you* to examine it with gloved hands, they're either > > paranoid or have something to hide. "then I think you may be mistaking for racism what is really a pretty cogent comment on the Brave New World Economy, in which Chinese workers really do slave for 20 cents an hour producing our steamers and such. > Spare me the bullshit, David. There was nothing to mistake. The > context that the ethnicity of the manufacters was mentioned in was > clearly racist and defamatory. Only if you are trying to manufacture an offense. You'd do better hijacking some sailors in international waters than riding this lame excuse. >> > It would have if you hadn't lanched into a racist rant about Chinese >> > manufacturers. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > workers > really do slave for 20 cents an hour producing our steamers and such. Signature-- Excuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts. Working the rockie road of the G&PX Manufacture? If one was talking about using gloves to avoid messing up a model then you would talk about that; it wouldn't occur to one to include a long rant about Chinese workers. Doing so would be totally out of context regarding that concept. It's only makes sense in the context of being a racist launching into a bigoted diatribe about the models being infected by Chinese workers. > Only if you are trying to manufacture an offense. > You'd do better hijacking some sailors in international waters than > riding this lame excuse. >It would have if you hadn't lanched into a racist rant about Chinese >manufacturers. > >Go back to burning your crosses on people's lawns, redneck. Idiot. If that were were the case, that, rather than a racist rant about Chinese workers ought to have been mentioned. DUH! "I wanna go back to Dixie, Take me back to dear ol' Dixie, That's the only li'l ol' place for li'l ol' me. Old times there are not forgotten, Whuppin' slaves and sellin' cotton, And waitin' for the Robert E. Lee. (It was never there on time.)" --Tom Lehrer > Did it even occur to you that the gloves are to protect the *merchandise* > from dirt, oil, and fingerprints? > > No, I suppose something so simple wouldn't occur to a top-poster... > Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and > was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks for any and all repllies. Train shows are fun to go to. I do one every so often. I look for unusual items such as long out of production kits or rolling stock, or scratch building supplies, or decals. Or B units to match my A units, or rolling stock painted for my favorite road. Prototype information and photos, old Model Railroaders. Stuff I can't find in stores. I have a dependable LHS who stocks a lot of stuff. He is there in case I want to return stuff. In view of this, I don't buy things at train shows that I can get from my LHS, unless the price is really really good. If I ain't saving serious money, why not trade with a shop that is always there, open on Saturday, won't hassle me about returning defective merchandise. The train show vendors are nice guys and all, but it's here today gone tomorrow. It helps if you have some knowledge of the price of whatever it is you are interested in. One way to gain that knowledge is to go to train shows. Enjoy the looking and chatting. Some vendors are some one else's LHS, bringing their regular store stock to the show. Some are hobbyists who acquire used stuff and bring it to the shows. Some are one man specialty manufacturers moving their own product. Most of them do shows because they enjoy it. Good Luck. David Starr If you know what you are looking for and what prices should be train shows are great places to get equipment I do it all the time. But the train show dealers who sell overpriced junk are the ones you walk by very fast. > > Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and > > was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > David Starr >If you know what you are looking for and what prices should be train >shows are great places to get equipment I do it all the time. But the >train show dealers who sell overpriced junk are the ones you walk by >very fast. I also walk by dealers selling low priced junk. Althought when I have offered junk for sale, I'm amazed at how fast it sells. SignatureKen Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com http://users.erols.com/kennrice - Lego Compatible Flex Track, Civil War Round Table of DC & Concentration Camp made of Lego bricks http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2, Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire, Crusaders of Dark Savant & Others. > Heading to the Freat Train Expo edition in Cincinnati next weekend and > was wondering avout vendors/businesses that attend these shows. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks for any and all repllies. FWIW I find a great difference among train shows in terms of usefulness, although, I've been lucky enough to have encountered no serious cases of attempted deception among vendors. The huge affairs like GATS and your own example are unlikely to be too useful to anyone with a medium to large collection of track, rolling stock, locomotives, etc. The relatively high charges for tables deters the casual seller from buying space. Most sellers are "professionals" which is to say that they are often LHSs offering a portion of their inventory. They tend to bring their more popular items to maximize potential sales. A new-comer to the hobby, or one changing scales, eras, control systems, etc. should find a good selection at prices no worse than those found at the LHS. In fact, the presence of so many tables selling the same goods allows for "creative haggling". Tell Smith that Jones is charging a buck less for your rtr item and he may come down two bucks. This ploy works best towards closing time when Smith may find the thought of repacking his wares particularly unattractive. I prefer to attend the smaller swap meets. The lower table fees attracts the person with a smaller inventory. He is more likely to be a fellow hobbyist selling older, out-of-stock items (junk?) that I, at least, am looking for. He is also more likely to be offering small parts, old magazines and other exotica that most LHS's no longer even stock. I thoroughly enjoy going to these local swap meets whether I make a purchase or not. There are five such meets within a hundred miles which I have attended, year-in year-out, since the '80s. We may not know each other's names, but it's a chance to chat with other "regulars". I hope your experience will prove to be equaly pleasant. Thank you. Jerry > I prefer to attend the smaller swap meets. The lower table fees > attracts the person with a smaller inventory. He is more likely to be > a fellow hobbyist selling older, out-of-stock items (junk?) that I, at > least, am looking for. He is also more likely to be offering small > parts, old magazines and other exotica that most LHS's no longer even > stock. tj: I think the old magazines & books are my most consistent purchase at these shows. Information is something you can always use, and you'd never be able to do all the research for yourself in one lifetime. I do like to see operating layouts, too, and sometimes I'll buy weird scratchbuilt or kitbashed models from an estate. Generally I'll avoid the $20 Tyco HO cabooses on the Lionel dealers' tables. :-D Not joking, unfortunately, as the rest of you may well know. Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, a box of track and some grids. |
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