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Camera suggestions for RR pics

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Frank A. Rosenbaum - 04 Nov 2007 02:41 GMT
I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does anyone
have recommendations for something under $1,000?
Or, what are you using?
The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
button being pressed and the picture being taken.
Signature


Frank Rosenbaum
Please support the following train meets if you can
Gratiot Valley ( www.gvrr.org ) in Macomb Michigan in March and November
and the Kalamazoo Model Railroad Historical Society ( www.kmrhs.org ) at the
Kalamazoo Fairgrounds in Kalamazoo MI in October.
Also check out the Westchester Model Railroad Club's train meet in Greenwich
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Jim Korman - 04 Nov 2007 03:08 GMT
>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does anyone
>have recommendations for something under $1,000?
>Or, what are you using?
>The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
>button being pressed and the picture being taken.

I've go an Olympus E-Volt 500, around $700US.

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1192

Real good for outdoor use, and fast. I don't miss shots anymore.

Here's a shot I took of my son's n-scale just playing around, didn't
do anything special. Just point and shot.

Warning: This is the full resulotion shot. about 1.2M

http://www.missouri-riverside.us/Graphics/JK171263.JPG

Jim
Jack - 04 Nov 2007 12:31 GMT
> I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
> anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
> Or, what are you using?
> The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
> button being pressed and the picture being taken.
For no delay you'll need an SLR. The compact digitals all have a delay
between shutter button press and shutter action. For under $1000 you
migth want to look at the Canon line. Either the EOS Digital Rebel XT
(aka 350D) at $943 (body and lens) or the slightly more expensive EOS
30D at $1080 (body and lens) will work good for you. Both camera bodies
are in the 8 megapixel class and are available from B&H in NYC. Their
web order system works quite well, from my personal experience.

I use an older Canon 10D with an image stabilized lens for my
railfanning. This is a 6.3 megapixel slr camera. Don't be fooled into
getting into a negapixel race. Unless you're going to be making huge
blow-ups (over 11x14 inches) or doing severe cropping of an image, 8
megapixel will do you well.
Signature

Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

John Fraser - 04 Nov 2007 15:11 GMT
Good morning Frank;

>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
>anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
> Or, what are you using?
> The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
> button being pressed and the picture being taken.

   I use a Nikon D40 which is relatively cheap.  It has both automatic and
manual settings, a variety of lighting conditions, ISO range of 200 to 1600,
a small built-in flash, shoots black & white, shoots RAW images with a
resolution up to 3008x2000 pixels per inch.  It will take you longer to get
ready than the camera.  It has a pixel resolution of 6 megapixels: unless
you plan on very large prints, it will suffice.  In addition to the camera,
invest in some decent editing software as well if you intend to post
pictures on a website.  With RAW images and fine resolution, you're looking
at about 130 pictures per CD.  The lens has a left hand mount.  Depending on
how you use the camera, the battery may last you all day, and a 2 Gb chip
will take 300 pictures or more.  It will literally take auto focused flash
pictures in near darkness.

   Choose whichever camera best suits your needs.  The above are
suggestions, but will hopefully give you an appreciation of what you may
need.  Zoom lenses lend to a variety of distances and coverages, but overall
have longer focal lengths.  Don't be shy about acquiring a close-up lens
filter kit.

Cheers,
John
Dan Merkel - 05 Nov 2007 22:06 GMT
>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
>anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
> Or, what are you using?
> The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
> button being pressed and the picture being taken.

Frank,

Your most important requirement makes this a bit more of a challenge.  Most
all digital SLR cameras with auto focus have a bit of a delay.  The real
question becomes how much of a delay can you tolerate.  Someone else
mentioned using a Nikon D-40; I have a D40x which I have had for about four
months now and TOTALLY ENJOY.  There is a bit of a shutter lag while the
camera is focusing but I'd guess that is only about 1/3 of a second.  For my
purposes, that is not a problem at all.  It is certainly much quicker than
the old point & shoot model that I had previously.  That seemed to take a
full second or more.  Your needs may vary a bit though.

I got mine from Ritz Camera who is having (or had) a special where you got
the camera, two lenses (15-55 and 55-200mm zooms), a case, a battery &
charger and two DVDs to tell you how to use the camera.  I did have to buy a
memory chip and I also purchased an extra battery.

Someone mentioned not getting caught up in the "pixel race" as they called
it.  I have a different slant on that.  I was going back & forth between the
6mp D40 and the 10.2mp D40x.  Finally a friend of mine who used to shoot
professionally as a newspaper photographer said to spring for the larger
image.  Not because of the enlargement possibilities but because you may
take a picture and see something that you want to crop down to.  With the
extra pixels, taking a relatively small portion of an image still gives you
plenty of detail.  I don't know if I'm making myself perfectly clear but I'm
glad I have the extra "image" to work with.

But do a lot of reading online and visit a camera store or two.  See what
seems to work best for YOU.  Because you are ultimately paying the bill and
will be the one who uses it.

Hope this helps... if you want to discuss offline, drop me a line.

dlm
David Nebenzahl - 06 Nov 2007 02:40 GMT
On 11/5/2007 2:06 PM Dan Merkel spake thus:

>>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
>>anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> months now and TOTALLY ENJOY.  There is a bit of a shutter lag while the
> camera is focusing but I'd guess that is only about 1/3 of a second.

Question: what if you focus the camera manually? (Maybe some folks don't
realize you can actually do that with a digital camera.) Does that make
the picture-taking process more instantaneous?
Dan Merkel - 06 Nov 2007 18:49 GMT
> On 11/5/2007 2:06 PM Dan Merkel spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> realize you can actually do that with a digital camera.) Does that make
> the picture-taking process more instantaneous?

Dave (and others),

That's a good question... to be honest, I've never tried it.  This is just a
guess but I would guess that it would eliminate the lag time for the camera
to focus.  Like I said, that is just a guess though.

dlm
John Fraser - 07 Nov 2007 11:46 GMT
Good morning David;

> On 11/5/2007 2:06 PM Dan Merkel spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> realize you can actually do that with a digital camera.) Does that make
> the picture-taking process more instantaneous?

   It does once the lens is in focus and the distance remains relatively
constant.  Otherwise, the autofocus on my camera is faster than me.  One
thing about the auto-focus is it can be set up several ways.  If shooting
moving objects, I'd recommend a spot focus.  I purchased the same type of
kit as Dan and I find it a good camera although I would have preferred
Canon's Rebel XT which was twice the price.

Cheers,
John
Mountain Goat - 06 Nov 2007 09:05 GMT
>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does anyone
>have recommendations for something under $1,000?
>Or, what are you using?
>The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
>button being pressed and the picture being taken.

I have been very happy with my Pentax K100D and the older *ist/DS2
both are 6.1 MP DSLRs. Part of my choice is owning a large stable of
Pentax film camera lenses. The K100D has a good anti shake system (the
lower priced K110D does not) for 10MP there is the K10D.

The Canon USA guys show up at Altamont (Alberta-Montana railfan
weekend) every year trying to convert us and a lot of the guys there
shoot Canon 20d & 30d which give good results. Lots of Olympus & Nikon
shooters there too.

All the top brands have suitable camera so I would look for these
things:

1. One you find easy to handle, and like the controls, especially for
shooting in rapidly changing light.
2. A good range of lenses & accessories
3. A camera that does not use proprietary or semi-proprietary memory
chips

Megapixels are not everything and they DO NOT respond like silver
halide does on film. The Canon guys brought some huge enlargements
shot on one of their older 3MP cameras & you would not believe them
(OK it was printed on their $14,000 printer, but still.....

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David Nebenzahl - 06 Nov 2007 18:15 GMT
On 11/6/2007 1:05 AM Mountain Goat spake thus:

> Megapixels are not everything and they DO NOT respond like silver
> halide does on film. The Canon guys brought some huge enlargements
> shot on one of their older 3MP cameras & you would not believe them
> (OK it was printed on their $14,000 printer, but still.....

Yep.

There's a lot of misconception about how many megapixels are enough, to
be sure, a lot of it engendered by the camera sellers in desperate
attempts to get people to ditch their "old" cameras and spend bux on hew
ones.

Here's how I explained it to someone I'm working for, who expressed to
me that maybe the Canon 3.2 MP camera we were using wasn't good enough
and that we might need, say, a 16 MP camera. I took him over to the
screen of his iMac and asked him how many megapixels he thought the
display was; after discovering that the screen resolution was set to
1440x900, this was found to be ~1.3 MP. So our modest little camera was
almost 3 times the resolution of that display, meaning it was plenty
good enough for our purposes. (In other words, you could stack almost 3
of those displays together to display a picture shown at full resolution
from that camera.)
Dan Merkel - 06 Nov 2007 18:59 GMT
> On 11/6/2007 1:05 AM Mountain Goat spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> purposes. (In other words, you could stack almost 3 of those displays
> together to display a picture shown at full resolution from that camera.)

Interesting.  Even the HD TVs that are becoming so popular nowadays have
images in only the 2.0 MP range.

And your analogy to the computer monitor is a point well taken.  However,
with my bad eyesight, I tend to run in the older 800x600 mode.  Anyone using
my monitor complains about how blurry & fuzzy the images on it are.  So
There s more than one variable at play here.

Perhaps the best display of the whole resolution thing I saw was at our
local Sears store.  There was an album with the same picture displayed in
the same size but with different resolutions.  In other words, the pictures
were all 8x10 but they varied from a pretty low 72dpi up to a much higher
resolution.  I don't remember what the high end was but it was pretty
obvious that with each picture, the image got progressively sharper.  But I
would think that at some point, there would be a dimenishing return on the
increased image size.

For close-up model photography, things like depth of field, a good flash and
a solid tripod might be of equal or greater importance in getting a really
good picture.

dlm
Steve Caple - 07 Nov 2007 01:53 GMT
> And your analogy to the computer monitor is a point well taken.  However,
> with my bad eyesight, I tend to run in the older 800x600 mode.  Anyone using
> my monitor complains about how blurry & fuzzy the images on it are.

Although you'll run into occasional problems with poorly written programs
and their dialog boxes especially, you can right click the desktop, select
settings, advanced, and try a custom font size.  I have a very sharp 1920 x
1200 WUXGA laptop screen, and run with font sizes set to 160%.  Very few
problems, and I get the advantage of this very sharp screen (yep, it's 2 mp
-  just like the best HD TVs).

Signature

Steve

Steve Caple - 07 Nov 2007 02:01 GMT

> For close-up model photography, things like depth of field, a good flash and
> a solid tripod might be of equal or greater importance in getting a really
> good picture.

One more point:  while I think it leaves most or all SLR digicams out, many
of the better "prosumer" digital cameras (like the Canon S5 is) have
variable angle LCD viewscreens that allow you to place the camera down next
to the subject  -  like sitting on or near the track  -  and rotate the LCD
so you can see it just by looking down at the camera, instead of tryiong to
get  your eye behind the viewfinder.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0705/07050703canons5is.asp

(scroll down to the last image just above the bottom of the page)

Signature

Steve

stealthboogie - 07 Nov 2007 06:50 GMT
> > For close-up model photography, things like depth of field, a good flash and
> > a solid tripod might be of equal or greater importance in getting a really
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> --
>  Steve

I have used the Canon Powershot S2IS for over a year, and besides the
unbeatable price $379 at the time, the 2 reasons I bought the S2 was
because of the flip screen and the 12x optical zoom with
stabilization. I shoot a lot of band photos and the flip screen makes
for using the camera at odd angles a breeze...like over a crowd. It
should be noted that the Canon Powershot cameras also have 640x480
30fps video capabilites... which with a 2gig chip gives about 17mins
of video.

The only downside to the S2 (and most other non SLR digitals) is the
shutter lag time. There are some ways to mitigate this on the S2 -
like using manual modes & pre-focusing, but it can be annoying
sometimes. The problem is more pronounced in low light conditions...
as it's harder for the camera to auto-focus - which is the reason
there is a lag in the first place.  Also since you can take 1000's of
photos with a couple memory cards, you can just delete any bad shots.

Other than the shutter lag this is a great camera (and I'm sure the
S3 & S5 are even better), full of functions, easy to operate, and a
lot-o-bang for the buck.

Doug
Steve Caple - 07 Nov 2007 07:42 GMT
> I shoot a lot of band photos and the flip screen makes for using the
> camera at odd angles a breeze...like over a crowd.

Ya, you betcha!!  I still have an old Nikon Coolpix 950 (2mp) with a
rotating viewfinder.  In Siena a couple days after the Palio, the youth of
the winning contrada were still parading around the narrow streets with
horns and drums and ... the flags of their contrada folded diagonally and
worn over their shoulders with the ends tied around the ring of a baby
pacifier and the nipple in their mouths!! (of those not playing horns).
Must be an Italian thang.  I was on a crossing lane as they came by and the
crowd at the intersection was three deep  -  but I culd get the shot by
angling the lens down and forward and the screen down and back and holding
it over head.

For anything other than live action shooting  -  and I don't think model
shots fall in that area  -  the occasional "shutter" delay is no drawback.
And just think of all the shots on your layout you couldn't get without
sawing it in half or shooting blind  -  say, in the middle of the yard from
track level  -  that a flexible or "variable" viewfinder can make doable.

PS  -  the S5 has a bigger LCD, 2.5", than the older model, and is up to 8
megapixels.  You do need an adapter for macro shots closer than 4" (my old
Nikon does it right down to 3/4" without an adapter)

One thing about the new Sony DSLR: at least Sony lets the buyers of their
top end cameras have the option to use CF cards instead of restricting them
to their proprietary (and more expensive) "Memory Stick" storage chips.

Signature

Steve

stealthboogie - 08 Nov 2007 06:03 GMT
> PS  -  the S5 has a bigger LCD, 2.5", than the older model, and is up to 8
> megapixels.  You do need an adapter for macro shots closer than 4" (my old
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> top end cameras have the option to use CF cards instead of restricting them
> to their proprietary (and more expensive) "Memory Stick" storage chips.

Yeah I know... the S3 came out about 3 weeks after I bought the S2,
and it also has the 2.5" screen & 6MP vs the 5MP on the S2, and it's
Black! And of course the price was the same as the S2 was, and the S2
dropped $50. :(

I did purchase a bunch of adaptors,a wide & tele lens, and a set of
filters. I recommend to anyone with a Powershot to at least get an
adaptor & UV filter to protect the lens. Besides the lens cap that
comes with the camera is annoying because it either falls off by
itself (it's only friction fit) or if you forget to remove it before
turning on the camera... that is the automatically zooms out and as
such doesn't have a cap that fits tight. With an adaptor & filter you
can fit a normal 58mm cap on.

At least the Powershots use the SD memory sticks... which can be
picked up pretty cheap now. I don't know if the S3/S5 has been
upgraded but the S2 is limited to a 2GB stick, and it has the weird
quirk that you can only shoot 1GB of video at a time, so with a 2GB
stick it will shut off after 1GB and you have to hit the video button
again to continue. Would be nice though if one could use the 4GB HD...
although I wouldn't recommend to use just a single 1 or 2GB stick for
shooting photos only. Better off using several sticks so if one screws
up you don't loose everything.

Doug
John Fraser - 07 Nov 2007 12:04 GMT
Good morning Steve;

>> For close-up model photography, things like depth of field, a good flash
>> and
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> (scroll down to the last image just above the bottom of the page)

   In addition to my Nikon, I have a Fuji 2600 which will focus down to
about six inches.  My Nikon is strictly viewfinder whereas the Fuji is real
time viewing through either the viewfinder or display screen.  I discovered
your observation while shooting apple and cherry blossoms: use the display
screen vice the viewfinder.  BTW, a 6 mm lens is virtually a fisheye lens.

Cheers,
John
Steve Caple - 07 Nov 2007 19:10 GMT
>  BTW, a 6 mm lens is virtually a fisheye lens.

Uh, yes, for sure.  But I'm not sure what prompted that observation.  Was
it something on the DPR review page?

Signature

Steve

John Fraser - 08 Nov 2007 18:17 GMT
Good morning Steve;

>>  BTW, a 6 mm lens is virtually a fisheye lens.
>
> Uh, yes, for sure.  But I'm not sure what prompted that observation.  Was
> it something on the DPR review page?

   I noticed the focal length listed on the lens in the picture.  It was an
observation on my part.  A true fisheye covers 180 degrees, but rectangular
formats tend to be corner to corner.  Still, it makes for some interesting
pictures.

Cheers,
John
Steve Caple - 08 Nov 2007 20:49 GMT
> Good morning Steve;
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> formats tend to be corner to corner.  Still, it makes for some interesting
> pictures.

According to DPR, the 35mm equivalent range for that lens is 36 - 432mm;
so for the small "film" size the 6mm is just a mild wide angle, at least as
I understand it.

Signature

Steve

David Nebenzahl - 09 Nov 2007 02:42 GMT
On 11/8/2007 12:49 PM Steve Caple spake thus:

>> Good morning Steve;
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> so for the small "film" size the 6mm is just a mild wide angle, at least as
> I understand it.

Correct; for 35mm, a lens wouldn't be considered to be a fisheye until
it was down around 10mm or so. 36mm very slightly wide-angle.
John Fraser - 10 Nov 2007 03:46 GMT
Good evening Steve;

>> Good morning Steve;
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> as
> I understand it.

   True, at best it would be a moderate wide angle equivalency.  A fisheye
is minimum 16mm, the more expensive would be 7 to 8.  At least in the Rokkor
lens lineup produced by Minolta.

Cheers,
John
Jon Miller - 10 Nov 2007 18:02 GMT
>At least in the Rokkor
lens lineup produced by Minolta.<

   Do they still make Rokkor lens.  Minolta is now combined with Konica, as
in Konica Minolta so was just curious.  Rokkor lens used to be one of the
best!
Jack - 10 Nov 2007 19:00 GMT
>> At least in the Rokkor
> lens lineup produced by Minolta.<
>
>     Do they still make Rokkor lens.  Minolta is now combined with Konica, as
> in Konica Minolta so was just curious.  Rokkor lens used to be one of the
> best!

Konica/Minolta has gone bye-bye in the camera market.
Signature

Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

David Nebenzahl - 10 Nov 2007 19:55 GMT
On 11/10/2007 11:00 AM Jack spake thus:

>>> At least in the Rokkor  lens lineup produced by Minolta.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Konica/Minolta has gone bye-bye in the camera market.

Yes, we know that. The question remains, what happened to Minolta's
manufacturing operations: are they still running under a different name?
Is the factory that made Rokkor optics still operating?
Jon Miller - 10 Nov 2007 21:34 GMT
>Konica/Minolta has gone bye-bye in the camera market.<

   How long ago.  As I have all these neat Minolta lens I checked with Best
Buy a year or so ago about a digital Minolta body and they looked it up and
quoted around $1500.
Jack - 12 Nov 2007 13:10 GMT
> >Konica/Minolta has gone bye-bye in the camera market.<
>
>     How long ago.  As I have all these neat Minolta lens I checked with Best
> Buy a year or so ago about a digital Minolta body and they looked it up and
> quoted around $1500.

That would be what is referred to as NOS (new old stock). K/M hasn't
made anything new in at least two years. I believe Sony inherited the
technology and assets. Depending on how old your old Minolta lenses are,
they may not work with a digital body. What Best Buy told you was
something they have left in their stock they can't get rid of. If you do
buy it, don't be surprised if you need some form of support for it and
can't get it, at least not from the manufacturer.

Signature

Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

John Fraser - 11 Nov 2007 01:04 GMT
Good evening Jon;

> >At least in the Rokkor
> lens lineup produced by Minolta.<
>
>    Do they still make Rokkor lens.  Minolta is now combined with Konica,
> as in Konica Minolta so was just curious.  Rokkor lens used to be one of
> the best!

   To my knowledge, Minolta ceased producing the Rokkor lens lineup years
ago.  I can't recall which name their auto focus lenses were produced under.

   When considering purchasing a digital SLR, Minolta was my first choice.
Unfortunately, their cameras were too expensive.

Cheers,
John
Bruce Burden - 11 Nov 2007 03:16 GMT
:    Do they still make Rokkor lens.  Minolta is now combined with Konica, as
: in Konica Minolta so was just curious.  Rokkor lens used to be one of the
: best!

    Two years ago, I believe it was, Konica-Minolta transferred
   their camera operations technology to Sony.

    Sony is not doing anything with film cameras, and certainly
   not the old Minolta MF technology.

                            Bruce
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stealthboogie - 08 Nov 2007 06:18 GMT
>     In addition to my Nikon, I have a Fuji 2600 which will focus down to
> about six inches.  My Nikon is strictly viewfinder whereas the Fuji is real
> time viewing through either the viewfinder or display screen.  I discovered
> your observation while shooting apple and cherry blossoms: use the display
> screen vice the viewfinder.  BTW, a 6 mm lens is virtually a fisheye lens.

The Canon S2 (and I assume the S3/S5) will focus down to 0cm - 10cm
in Super Macro mode! In fact the instruction book has a warning to be
careful not to damage the lens when shooting Super Macro mode. This is
also another reason to use an adaptor & UV filter... because unlike
with an SLR once the lens is scratched you're SOL.

Doug
John Fraser - 08 Nov 2007 18:34 GMT
Good afternoon Doug;

>>     In addition to my Nikon, I have a Fuji 2600 which will focus down to
>> about six inches.  My Nikon is strictly viewfinder whereas the Fuji is
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Doug

   Some of those SLR lenses weren't cheap either, and I for one couldn't
afford to replace too many.  I like to use a Skylight 1A filter for lens
protection.

   The S2/S3 series seems a good choice of camera for wide angle and some
close-up photography.  It may be all the OP needs.  I used close-up lens
filters; more flexible and cheaper to replace if they get damaged.  A nice
feature of the filters is they could be used on any lens of their diameter
as distance can be a good thing if personal safety is a concern.

   Many years ago I purchased an assortment of lenses ranging from a 16mm
fisheye, 50mm, 135mm, a 400mm telephoto, a doubler, as well as the set of
close-up filters.  Unfortunately, I now have a house, wife, cat and computer
to support. :(

Cheers,
John
Bruce Burden - 07 Nov 2007 03:54 GMT
: Here's how I explained it to someone I'm working for, who expressed to
: me that maybe the Canon 3.2 MP camera we were using wasn't good enough
: and that we might need, say, a 16 MP camera.

    That is only part of it as well. The point where "more MP"
   is silly is when you have more MP than your lens is able to
   resolve.

    Most quality 35mm lenses can resolve somewhere around 200 lines/
   mm. So, it would make sense that you do not need more than 200 pixels
   per mm on your CCD, either.

    Given the CCD's in use today, that is somewhere around 10 - 12
   MP.

:                                              I took him over to the
: screen of his iMac and asked him how many megapixels he thought the
: display was; after discovering that the screen resolution was set to
: 1440x900, this was found to be ~1.3 MP.

    If you are going to shoot photos for a web site, then you do
   not need a lot of MP, certainly.

    If you are going to make enlargements, or want to enlarge just
   a portion of the image, then it is helpful to have the additional
   resolution.

    What is of most interest to me is the maximum frames/second
   that I can shoot. Most 35mm "pro" level film cameras could do
   5 - 6 frames/second, which means you could go through a roll of
   36 exposure film in 6 - 7 seconds. That got expensive...

    Digital SLR cameras are now at that level today, for around
   $1500.00, body only. And up, of course. Now, sustaining that kind
   of speed is still problematic. Most DSLR's only deliver that kind
   of frames/second using JPEG images, which is an inheritantly
   "lossy" format. So, if you want to shoot for enlargements or to
   enlarge just a section of the image, you are back to losing data
   before you can start working with it...

    You can shoot RAW, which basically takes the sensor data and
   shoves it into a quasi-standard (each camera maker has a different
   idea of how their RAW images are formatted to storage, but they
   more or less follow the same principals. Sorta. Basically). However,
   you are moving a lot more data to storage, and eventually, you
   will fill your storage buffer, and have to stop shooting at a
   high frame rate. The key for me is how quickly that storage buffer
   is cleared. Newer cameras can write the data faster, but there are
   still hardware limitations.

    As for how long does it take an AF camera to focus, that depends
   on the camera. Most DSLR cameras today have some kind of predictive
   AF mode, which calculates where a subject will be when the shutter
   is released. This technology was first marketed by Minolta, who sold
   their camera technology to Sony. Point & shoot cameras, you probably
   have no such luck. You also need to consider how long it takes a
   camera to "wake up" from a power conserving mode. Again, newer DSLR
   are going to tend to be faster than their older counterparts. Nothing
   like missing a shot because the camera was fondling itself...

    As for myself, I shoot Minolta (now Sony) DSLR's. I moved from
   Minolta MF bodies to the 2nd gen. AF body when Canon was thrashing
   around trying to get an AF camera to work even half way well, and
   Nikon was still thinking that AF was a passing fad. When it came to
   digital, however, Minolta was asleep at the wheel. Their first DSLR
   was a frankenstein of a mid-grade consumer AF body with an electronics
   package grafted (ungracefully) to the AF body. But, at 1.75 MP, it
   was fine for photos on a web site, and it preserved my $$$$ AF lens
   collection. Minolta eventually re-entered the DSLR market with a
   poor effort, and exited the photography business completely, which
   is where Sony comes in. Sony recently introduced a DSLR body that
   lives up to the Minolta AF legacy, and is what Minolta should have
   done before they took their ball and went home. In the meanwhile,
   of course, Canon and Nikon ate Minolta's lunch in terms of market
   share.

                                Bruce
Signature

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "I like bad!"                         Bruce Burden    Austin, TX.
       - Thuganlitha
       The Power and the Prophet
       Robert Don Hughes

Dan Merkel - 06 Nov 2007 19:07 GMT
>>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
>>anyone
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> shot on one of their older 3MP cameras & you would not believe them
> (OK it was printed on their $14,000 printer, but still.....

Hmmm... I wonder how much those pictures were doctored up with some good
image manipulation software like PhotoShop or PaintShopPro?  With the
software that is available today, it is often pretty easy to make a lousy
shot acceptable and a good shot great.

When MR first had digitally enhanced photos in their annual photo contest, I
was a loud opponent of the practice.  Not only was it difficult to
distinguish between the modeler's efforts and the photographer's
manipulations, it was equally difficult to decide what was even a model and
what was real.  While I don't think that kind of stuff belongs in a model
photo contest, it can be used to your advantage in editing images for other
use.

dlm
Steve Caple - 07 Nov 2007 02:02 GMT
> Hmmm... I wonder how much those pictures were doctored up with some good
> image manipulation software like PhotoShop or PaintShopPro?  With the
> software that is available today, it is often pretty easy to make a lousy
> shot acceptable and a good shot great.

Dye-sub printers do wonders for photos, too.

Signature

Steve

Randy or Sherry Guttery - 16 Nov 2007 22:28 GMT
> I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
> anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
> Or, what are you using?
> The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
> button being pressed and the picture being taken.

I'm coming into this discussion late, sorry - but I just found this
group (I have a question about identifying an old HO engine - but I'll
post that in it's own topic).

Your most important feature almost eliminates everything under $1000 for
a "full setup"...  The really fast cameras are past that amount. If you
truly can't live without no delay - then up your budget and get one of
the really fast cameras.  Otherwise you need to decide what compromise
you can live with between a delay and your budget. Some of the faster
focusing cameras below $1000 are - unfortunately - no longer made - as
Konica/Minolta sold out to Sony - and Sony is only using Minolta's
incredibly fast focus system (and other technology) in it's upper-end
DSLR-series --- but alas they are way out of your budget ( the low end
body alone is near your budget- with lenses and accessories - it puts it
way up there).

However - having said that - there are still some Konica/Minoltas
available that - while not "instant" can focus and shoot in under a
second and often much faster - which -- with a little practice - renders
most shots as desired. I have a low end model... very old and available
for a tenth of your budget (used - the e-place) - which is a Minolta
DiMAGE Z1.  The Z5 is far nicer - faster, image stabilization, and more
- and I saw a nice one recently (again on the e-place) for less than
half your budget.

One can talk about cameras all day - the proof is in the pudding... as
they say.  The top 2/3 of this page was taken recently with my Z1.  The
bottom photos (LORAM maintenance train) taken years ago with a film
camera. BTW - the video clips were also taken by the Z1.

As you can see - many different conditions, etc. even moving trains at
night and ALL HANDHELD - no tripod....

http://www.glimpsesofmeridian.com

just my .02...

best regards...
Signature

randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Randy or Sherry Guttery - 16 Nov 2007 22:43 GMT
> As you can see - many different conditions, etc. even moving trains at
> night and ALL HANDHELD - no tripod....
>
> http://www.glimpsesofmeridian.com

One additional note about these photos - they are somewhat heavily
compressed jpgs - down to 20% file size of original...   and presented
on the page at 72dpi i.e. 675 x 900--   The originals are 2048x1536 so
even an enlargement to 8 X 10 is 192dpi - and with a good printer (Epson
Photo R series or such) the image quality is quite good - you need a
magnifying glass under good light to see the pixels. I just didn't want
someone to think the images on the glimpses page were the full quality
of the camera...

best regards...
Signature

randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Mountain Goat - 17 Nov 2007 02:43 GMT
>> I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
>> anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>- and I saw a nice one recently (again on the e-place) for less than
>half your budget.

You can also go with the Minolta Z-2. Granted the Z-1 is a  3.2 MP and
the Z-2 is a 4.0 MP, a little low compared to the latest greatest, but
we have been happy with our Z-1, with one exception which is why I
think the Z-2 is better. On the Z-1 the switching between the
viewfinder and the back LCD screen is mechanical and has broken three
times on our camera (repaired twice on warranty) which does not get
abused at all. My camera dealer says this is common to the Z-1. The
Z-2 which is almost identical except for being a 4.0 MP switches
electronically which is would be my choice between the two if you can
find one.  BTW Sony now does the repairs.

http://ca.konicaminolta.com/products/consumer/digital_camera/dimage/dimage-z2/in
dex.html


>One can talk about cameras all day - the proof is in the pudding... as
>they say.  The top 2/3 of this page was taken recently with my Z1.  The
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>best regards...
Signature


"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement
of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent
encroachments of those in power than by violent and
sudden usurpations." - US President James Madison

"To be a social conservative is to believe that the
poor have too much money, and the rich don't have
enough." - J.K. Galbraith

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get
yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days
is to go about repeating the very phrases which our  
founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
- Charles Austin Beard

Randy or Sherry Guttery - 17 Nov 2007 02:50 GMT
>>>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
>>>anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> we have been happy with our Z-1, with one exception which is why I
> think the Z-2 is better.

Agreed, and that's my point - if you want performance on a budget - it
can be found IF you know what to look for.  Sorry to hear about the
problem with your Z1 - I guess I've been lucky - it has been *well* used
for many years (having had several Minolta film cameras and as tough as
they are - I've not been all that gentle with the Z1...

> BTW Sony now does the repairs.

I know they were - I wasn't sure they still are (for cameras as old as
the Z1). It's getting harder and harder to find parts for my XD-11
(anyone have an extra take-up spool?) - much less my SRT-101 (batteries)
(grin!)...

best regards...
Signature

randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Jack - 22 Nov 2007 15:08 GMT
> I know they were - I wasn't sure they still are (for cameras as old as
> the Z1). It's getting harder and harder to find parts for my XD-11
> (anyone have an extra take-up spool?) - much less my SRT-101 (batteries)
> (grin!)...

Try Radio Shack for the batteries - I can still get them for my 101
there (which I don't use much anymore as I've gone digital with a Canon
EOS SLR).

Signature

Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

David Nebenzahl - 22 Nov 2007 18:38 GMT
On 11/22/2007 7:08 AM Jack spake thus:

>> I know they were - I wasn't sure they still are (for cameras as old as
>> the Z1). It's getting harder and harder to find parts for my XD-11
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> there (which I don't use much anymore as I've gone digital with a Canon
> EOS SLR).

Better yet, try a *real* camera store. No, I'm not talking about Ritz,
or Wolf, or any of those type places; I mean a real photo shop, one that
still carries film (remember that stuff).
Mountain Goat - 24 Nov 2007 05:50 GMT
>>>>I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
>>>>anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>(anyone have an extra take-up spool?) - much less my SRT-101 (batteries)
>(grin!)...

BTW Sony now has an updated replacement for the Minolta Z1, Z2 series
cameras. It's the 8.1 MP, 15X optical zoom DSCH-9, looks almost
identical.

Signature

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement
of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent
encroachments of those in power than by violent and
sudden usurpations." - US President James Madison

"To be a social conservative is to believe that the
poor have too much money, and the rich don't have
enough." - J.K. Galbraith

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get
yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days
is to go about repeating the very phrases which our  
founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
- Charles Austin Beard

Nick Fotis - 21 Nov 2007 14:26 GMT
> I am looking to buy a Digital SLR for modeling and rail fanning. Does
> anyone have recommendations for something under $1,000?

For macro shots with layouts, a compact camera is an excellent choice.
Their macro mode and much bigger depth-of-field (due to the small sensors)
is excellent for 1:87 shots.
I am using a 4 Mpixels Canon A85. I chose this model because it had:
- good macro (and manual focus) capability
- full manual control (shutter speed, aperture, ISO, white balance -
everything is controllable)
- uses Compact Flash cards, so I can share cards with typical dSLRs (In
fact, I had already a 1 GB Compact Flash card before I got the camera)
- runs on AA batteries, so you can get alkaline batteries if your
rechargeable ones
Four Megapixels are enough for a half-page print, and I use this camera for
documenting the various modules I build, besides various railfan photos.

Forget trying to shoot model details with a dSLR without a dedicated macro
lens (= 400+ USD extra at the very least).
A compact camera is cheaper than a macro lens (my Canon A85 came at 155
Euros with charger, batteries and a pouch), and more suited to 'trackside'
pictures for 1:87 scale.

> Or, what are you using?
> The most important feature is that there is no delay between the shutter
> button being pressed and the picture being taken.

There are two main reasons for delay: auto-focus and shutter/image storage
delay.

If you want really fast autofocus in dim light conditions, I would suggest
at least a zoom lens with f/2.8 maximum aperture (smaller number = more
light enters).

Canon has very fast auto-focus in most of their dSLR cameras, thanks to
their USM (Ultrasonic Motor) lenses, with the motors inside the lens.
Nikon has the 'silent wave' AF-S motors, and other companies are following
with SSM (Sony-Minolta's and Pentax's term).

The typical kit lenses included with most dSLRs are slow in focusing,
compared to more pricey/faster lenses.
I would suggest you try a mid-range dSLR with a good lens.
Ergonomics play a major role in these matters.

Mine favorites in the midrange dSLR category are the Canon 40D and the Nikon
D80, and probably the Sony a700 is pretty good too. Olympus E510 has a good
reputation too, along with Pentax K10.
Only the Nikon, though, is lower than 1000 USD, leaving enough change for
getting a kit lens (the 18-70 is considered a very nice lens), plus memory
cards etc.

Hope this helps,
N.Fotis
Jon Miller - 21 Nov 2007 17:45 GMT
A question.  Knowing Minolta is owned by Sony and is effectively dead I
have lens that fit a SRT101 and XG-M camera body/s.  I have some very
expensive lens that fit these bodies including a MD VFC 24mm.  Is there
anyway to adapt these lens to modern digital camera's?

   The MD VFC was purchased especially for MRR pictures and I think cost
about $500 at the time.
Bruce Burden - 22 Nov 2007 03:28 GMT
:    A question.  Knowing Minolta is owned by Sony and is effectively dead I

    Minolta (Konica-Minolta) is NOT owned by Sony. When K-M made
   the decision to bail, the camera technology was transferred to
   Sony. Konica-Minolta continues to exist, and has focused on copiers
   etc.

    Dead? Sony has released two digital SLRs based on the Minolta
   technology, the Alpha 100 (aka "alpha") and the Alpha 700 (aka
   a700). These cameras are fully compatible with Minolta 'A' mount
   lenses (note that some early unlicensed third party lenses will
   not work) and Sony has been working on some new lenses for the
   alpha line.

: have lens that fit a SRT101 and XG-M camera body/s.  I have some very
: expensive lens that fit these bodies including a MD VFC 24mm.  Is there
: anyway to adapt these lens to modern digital camera's?

    There are Minolta MC/MD to A mount adaptors available.
   There will be some tradeoffs, but I can not tell you what they
   will be, as I sold all of my MD equipment to move to the 8000i
   when it was released.

    Soligar made one, but it would be best to do some research
   to find out what is/is not available, and what limitations may
   exist. The VFC may offer some challenges, if it changes the
   rear element position.

                            Bruce
Signature

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "I like bad!"                         Bruce Burden    Austin, TX.
       - Thuganlitha
       The Power and the Prophet
       Robert Don Hughes

Jon Miller - 23 Nov 2007 15:38 GMT
Did some Googling and saw a couple of places where the A100 body was under
$400.  What did surprise me was the battery for the camera was $140.  Is
this normal for modern digital cameras of the A100 type?
Nick Fotis - 23 Nov 2007 18:13 GMT
> Did some Googling and saw a couple of places where the A100 body was under
> $400.  What did surprise me was the battery for the camera was $140.  Is
> this normal for modern digital cameras of the A100 type?

These Lithium-ion batteries are pretty pricey, agreed - but this goes with
the dSLR game (a few, like the Pentax K100, if I remember correctly, work
with rechargeable AA batteries).

Normally, you get one such power pack inside the package, and one charge
typically is enough for 600-800 shots (depending on flash, shot duration,
chimping on the back LCD, etc.). And these batteries recharge rather
quickly (around 2-3 hours, typically).

But remember, when you buy a dSLR, you at the same time 'marry' a whole
system (lenses, flashes, etc.). So, it would be a good idea to think ahead,
not only on focus speed items, but probable upgrades with bigger/faster
lenses etc. (and their cost - for example, the professional 'L' lenses by
Canon often are real cheaper in price, compared to similar Nikon and
Minolta lenses, more than balancing the somewhat pricier camera body)

Hope this helps,
N.F.
Wolf Kirchmeir - 23 Nov 2007 20:32 GMT
>> Did some Googling and saw a couple of places where the A100 body was under
>> $400.  What did surprise me was the battery for the camera was $140.  Is
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Hope this helps,
> N.F.

IOW, consider cost of ownership, not only cost of acquisition.

Personally, I don't want any camera that uses a proprietary,
non-standard battery format. I've had enough of that with the Nikon film
camera I own, thank you very much. NB that Li-Ion batteries are
available in AA and AAA formats. A camera that uses AA or AAA batteries
can be powered by disposables if necessary.

Anecdote: my sister-in-law and her husband bought a cheap point'n'shoot
camera at WallyMart recently. It has a little Lego-=brick type battery,
which gave out. They could not get another one - not even at WallyMart....
Jon Miller - 23 Nov 2007 20:45 GMT
Apparently this battery problem goes with the territory in cell phones.
My daughter tells me one of the main reasons you get a new phone when the
contract is up is the battery in the old one is shot.
   With the A100's battery being over 1/3 the cost of the body it would
make sense to get new bodies every 2 or 3 years.  Either the same (which
will have dropped a bunch in price) or the latest design which, in 3 years
electronically, is very different.
 
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