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Model Forum / General / Railroads / May 2008[Z] Marklin DB class 74 tender & caboose
I'm looking for a Z scale tender and caboose to go with a class 74 DB steam locomotive. Was there such a model ever available? > I'm looking for a Z scale tender and caboose to go with a class 74 DB > steam locomotive. Was there such a model ever available? The only prototype combination of a T12 (DB BR74) that I'm aware of was on a private German branch where a small 3 axle tender was connected to said loco to extend it's range. The BR 24 tender with about a quarter of the side height cut off would be a fair representation in Z scale. The "Gepaeckwagen" of German railways cannot reasonably be translated to "caboose" as it serves a purpose which does not equate to a US caboose. The normal translation is "parcels wagon" as it's prime purpose was to carry "lcl" goods. The crew member carried in it was the senior member of the train crew and it's normal positioning in a train was immediately behind the loco/tender. Regards, Greg.P. > The normal translation is "parcels wagon" Er, uh, does that mean baggage car? <g>  SignatureSteve On 5/24/2008 10:53 PM Steve Caple spake thus: >> The normal translation is "parcels wagon" > > Er, uh, does that mean baggage car? <g> I thought he was referring to those old wood carts you used to see outside the REA office at the station ... "Wagon", indeed. SignatureThe best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. - Attributed to Winston Churchill > I thought he was referring to those old wood carts you used to see outside > the REA office at the station ... > > "Wagon", indeed. http://ukrailrollingstock.fotopic.net/ http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/freight/greenbrier2/ Ahem. > On 5/24/2008 10:53 PM Steve Caple spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "Wagon", indeed. I realize you yanks don't distinguish between passenger and goods rolling stock, but outside America and Africa ... ;-) Greg.P. I'm guessing that the BR 24 tender would be difficult to obtain separately from loco then, correct? I like your idea of using it with a DB BR 74 locomotive. Gepaeckwagen come in all different colors, correct? is there any significance to it? I'm curious if marklin made the BR 24 tender and an appropriate Gepaeckwagen available alone. Probably not. > I'm guessing that the BR 24 tender would be difficult to obtain separately > from loco then, correct? I like your idea of using it with a DB BR 74 > locomotive. > > Gepaeckwagen come in all different colors, correct? is there any > significance to it? Well no. In Laenderbahn days, (pre 1920) each railway had it's own standard colours (eg Prussia brick red, Sachseny green (P) or grey (G), ...) In DRG 1923-1951 and DB era 3 they were green. > I'm curious if marklin made the BR 24 tender You should be able to buy one as a spare. > and an > appropriate Gepaeckwagen available alone. Definitely. That should be in the current catalogue. It's prototype designation is "Pwg pr15" meaning "Paeckwagen gueterzug Prussian design 1915". The DRG took the standard Prussian design as it's standard and build many thousands of them. There was a replacement design in 1941. They lasted until about the 1970s when operating proceedures changed and they stopped using them. > Probably not. > > The normal translation is "parcels wagon" > > Er, uh, does that mean baggage car? <g> No, in everyday terms, a parcel is something in brown paper tied up in string and unaccompanied, while "baggage" is a suitcase, duffelbag, or other stuff a passenger might carry. A passenger's baggage might well include a parcel, but you wouldn't expect to find baggage in a parcels wagon. "Wagon" normally refers to a 4 wheel item of rolling stock while "car" is short for "carriage", which one would expect to be more refined than a wagon. Isd that clear now? Regards, Greg.P. ;-) > No, in everyday terms, a parcel is something in brown paper tied up in > string .......... (snip) Brown paper packages tied up with string? These are a few of my favorite things. And they're usually bringing something I bought on EBay. -Pete > I'm looking for a Z scale tender and caboose to go with a class 74 DB > steam locomotive. Was there such a model ever available? When did the BR 74 had a tender ? Klaus SignatureModelbane Europas hjemmeside: http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk Modeltog, internet, gratis spambekæmpelse, elektronik og andet: http://home6.inet.tele.dk/moppe > > I'm looking for a Z scale tender and caboose to go with a class 74 DB > > steam locomotive. Was there such a model ever available? > > When did the BR 74 had a tender ? Only one that I know of, and that was a private railway. It had a 3T12 Prussian tender coupled to it for extra water capacity. Sorry, I can't locate a reference off-hand. Of course it was a Pr T12, not a BR 74 as it was never a DRG or DB Lok. Regards, Greg.P. > Only one that I know of, and that was a private railway. It had a 3T12 > Prussian tender coupled to it for extra water capacity. > Sorry, I can't locate a reference off-hand. > Of course it was a Pr T12, not a BR 74 as it was never a DRG or DB Lok. I guess it was never at Pr T12 (Preussian T12), since they all were merged into DRG. The BR 74 consist of both the Pr T11 (471 pcs), LBE T 11 (11 pcs) PR T12 (900 pcs), 10 T12 fom the Saar railways and 11 pcs T12 from LBE. Before that 75 was withdrawn from service by the preussian railways and approx 20 others was sold to other operators than the mentioned ones. Klaus SignatureModelbane Europas hjemmeside: http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk Modeltog, internet, gratis spambekæmpelse, elektronik og andet: http://home6.inet.tele.dk/moppe > > Only one that I know of, and that was a private railway. It had a 3T12 > > Prussian tender coupled to it for extra water capacity. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > that 75 was withdrawn from service by the preussian railways and approx > 20 others was sold to other operators than the mentioned ones. You've missed out a Baden Lok type from the list! (sorry, my refernce books are packed away until the new house is finished) Regards, Greg.P. > You've missed out a Baden Lok type from the list! Hmmm, the Bädsichen loks near the 74 is some of the 75's. Untill now i have never heard of any Baden 74's. > (sorry, my refernce books are packed away until the new house is > finished) Let me know, when the house is finished, I'd like to hear about the Baden type 74.... Klaus SignatureModelbane Europas hjemmeside: http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk Modeltog, internet, gratis spambekæmpelse, elektronik og andet: http://home6.inet.tele.dk/moppe > > You've missed out a Baden Lok type from the list! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Klaus Hi Klaus, will do. I would like to make the point that one needs to tailor one's comments to the probable reader. A writer asking which tender would suit the BR74 and which caboose ... probably isn't ready for a discussion on the differences between pr T11s and T12s or LBE variations, let alone Einheits 3T15 vs 3 T16 tenders or Prussian 3T10.5, 3T12 or 3T15 tenders. :-) I'm not sure where I saw the T12 with tender, but I imagine it was either in Eisenbahn Journal or Eisenbahn Magazin between 1978 and about 2002. It might take me a while to re-read those issues. My answer was a fraction 'tongue in cheek', but I'm certain there was (one) with added tender just as there were 3x DR/DB pr T3s with added tenders. Regards, Greg.P. NZ > I'm not sure where I saw the T12 with tender, but I imagine it was > either in Eisenbahn Journal or Eisenbahn Magazin between 1978 and about > 2002. It might take me a while to re-read those issues. Arrrh, come on, you got one whole working week until it is weekend again- you have nothing else to do :-) Klaus SignatureModelbane Europas hjemmeside: http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk Modeltog, internet, gratis spambekæmpelse, elektronik og andet: http://home6.inet.tele.dk/moppe > > I'm not sure where I saw the T12 with tender, but I imagine it was > > either in Eisenbahn Journal or Eisenbahn Magazin between 1978 and about [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Klaus Last week my wife got cross with me for not progressing tasks quick enough, so I wrote out a list of jobs I have to do. Fairly broad categories like: - build stairs. - landscape garden. - etc. etc. She told me to throw the list away as I would kill myself trying to get through it. I pointed out that page two (the longer list) was all her jobs for me to do. Then she said I could do the second page first and then rest. There was another bit in there about if I killed myself with overwork she would resusitate me so she could kill me herself, but I was to busy to listen properly. Greg.P. So would a DB class 74 loco ever have been used on the DRG? My guess is that these Marklin sets would work out OK: 8104 (Prussian Coach Set which includes a Gepaeckwagen I believe) 87580 & 87560 (DRG car set) Or, would that loco never have been used for passenger coaches? Thank you for your kind insight and interesting banter! > So would a DB class 74 loco ever have been used on the DRG? Yes, since DB got all their BR 74's from DRG > Or, would that loco never have been used for passenger coaches? It depends.......in the DB days they were all used for passenger trains. Klaus SignatureModelbane Europas hjemmeside: http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk Modeltog, internet, gratis spambekæmpelse, elektronik og andet: http://home6.inet.tele.dk/moppe > So would a DB class 74 loco ever have been used on the DRG? My guess is > that these Marklin sets would work out OK: Certainly, there were some hundreds of them. They lasted almost to the computer numbering era of the DB. (era 4) > 8104 (Prussian Coach Set which includes a Gepaeckwagen I believe) > 87580 & 87560 (DRG car set) Gepaeckwagen came in both passenger and goods train form. The passenger types had space, in addition, for passenger luggage. > Or, would that loco never have been used for passenger coaches? The locomotive design was primarily intended for short route passenger trains. In fact the design was an upgrade of the class T11 (also 2-6-0t BR74) with an enlarged superheated boiler intended for the Berlin suburban lines where high acceleration between closely spaced stations was required. When the Berlin lines were electrified around WWI these near new locos became redundant and were spread across Germany. As reparations for WWI they spread across Europe. On the LBE some of these locos were even built as streamliners, although the streamlining was almost certainly for publicity purposes rather than all-out speed. > Thank you for your kind insight and interesting banter! |
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