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Model Forum / General / Railroads / June 2008Filling Station
Now here is a model of a well done Filling Station. http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/2008/06/04/scale-modeling-a-diverse-modeler/ Enjoy. On 6/4/2008 11:57 AM Hawkeye spake thus: > Now here is a model of a well done Filling Station. > > http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/2008/06/04/scale-modeling-a-diverse-modeler/ Nice model. Just one criticism, and it's something I see far too often on otherwise fine models: the typeface used for the sign. There's no way a station of this vintage would ever use that type; just look at some old pictures. Looks like it came off someone's inkjet printer from Microsoft something-or-other. For some reason, a lot of otherwise great modelers have a huge blind spot in this area. A little more care in selecting the type of letters used on signs can make a big difference in "believeability". Someday I'm gonna write a full-scale rant on this ...  SignatureThe best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. - Attributed to Winston Churchill > On 6/4/2008 11:57 AM Hawkeye spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Attributed to Winston Churchill When I first opened Microstuffed Publisher I thought "Wow, look at all those fonts, more than anyone could ever need. The first time I wanted to do some model decals I plodded through font after font after font. I think one font came close on about 15 of 52 letters. Even for general lettering for a 1930 layout there's almost nothing. Try fitting any MS font on a sign of a given dimension such as a sign panel in a plastic kit and the letters won't fit. Either you've got half a letter over the edge or you have too small lettering for the panel. Feel free to write and post your rant. Regards, Greg.P. > Even for general lettering for a 1930 layout there's almost nothing. > Try fitting any MS font on a sign of a given dimension such as a sign > panel in a plastic kit and the letters won't fit. Either you've got half > a letter over the edge or you have too small lettering for the panel. You need Corel Draw - lots of extra fonts, and you can manipulate them and resize them, change individual letter spacing, etc., etc., as required. SignatureSteve >> Even for general lettering for a 1930 layout there's almost nothing. >> Try fitting any MS font on a sign of a given dimension such as a sign [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You need Corel Draw - lots of extra fonts, and you can manipulate them > and resize them, change individual letter spacing, etc., etc., as required. Could you use mspaint (or my preference photoshop) and use the lettering tool to write your text then shrink the image to the size needed to fit the kit. If you start close, you should not get much distortion. ?? On 6/4/2008 2:52 PM Big_Al spake thus: >>> Even for general lettering for a 1930 layout there's almost nothing. >>> Try fitting any MS font on a sign of a given dimension such as a sign [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > tool to write your text then shrink the image to the size needed to fit > the kit. If you start close, you should not get much distortion. ?? Probably; most software can be cajoled, persuaded or forced to do what you want it to, but it would be a gigantic pain in the a.s. First of all, Paint deals with bitmaps only (pixels), which is a lot more difficult to work with. Steve's right: Corel (or equivalent, like Illustrator, or other shareware programs available that deal with vector graphics) is the way to go. Shrink, stretch, adjust line thickness, line color, fill color, etc. And Corel does (at least used to) come with lotsa lotsa fonts. For that matter, if I only had Micro$oft Office (as Greg seems to have), I'd use Word in favor of Publisher. It's not designed for that kind of graphic manipulation, but it does allow sizing text to just about any size in small increments (hint: set the "grid spacing" to a smaller setting than the default). SignatureThe best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. - Attributed to Winston Churchill > Steve's right: Corel (or equivalent, like Illustrator, or other > shareware programs available that deal with vector graphics) is the way > to go. Shrink, stretch, adjust line thickness, line color, fill color, > etc. And Corel does (at least used to) come with lotsa lotsa fonts. Look for a copy of Corel Draw 11 (or maybe 9? - odd numbered releases have for some reason seemed to be more stable and bug free) and you'll get lads of fonts, and of course the vector drawing program's ability to twist and stretch and skew to your perverse little heart's content. SignatureSteve I use Paint Shop Pro. I'm up to version X but still like 7 for general stuff. And, even though it works in raster graphics, it is very easy to stretch or shrink either horizontally or vertically. I think the secret is to work in a very high dots per inch mode. I usually use 600dpi when creating decals. I'm fortunate to have a printer that will use all of those dots. It makes for very sharp small decals. Oftentimes, I'll create something in black & white. Then, I'll resize / reshape it to what I need. I'll convert the drawing to just two colors (black & white) then convert it back to a multi color image. This leaves everything in a crisp two-color graphic but you can then flood fill the letters to whatever color or colors that you need. Again, this keeps things very sharp. If anyone is intereted in further pursuing what I'm suggesting, let me know... this thread really isn't about computer generated graphics. dlm >> Steve's right: Corel (or equivalent, like Illustrator, or other >> shareware programs available that deal with vector graphics) is the way [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > lads of fonts, and of course the vector drawing program's ability to twist > and stretch and skew to your perverse little heart's content. On 6/4/2008 1:19 PM Greg Procter spake thus: >> On 6/4/2008 11:57 AM Hawkeye spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Feel free to write and post your rant. I will, but later. Regarding your attempts, all I can say is that PubSlasher is the wrong tool for *any* job. As stated downthread, Corel Draw is a much better tool. (I believe you can get copies of older versions for really cheap online.) Even Word seems to do a better job at resizing text, strangely enough. Regarding fonts, besides all the fonts that come with Corel, including lots of "decorative" fonts (in addition to the usual serif, sans serif and script ones), a lot of fonts are available for free online in various places. Some time ago I found a free download of a pretty good Railroad Gothic font, which of course would be very suitable for a lot of older sign lettering. SignatureThe best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. - Attributed to Winston Churchill > Nice model. Just one criticism, and it's something I see far too often on > otherwise fine models: the typeface used for the sign. I see two other problems: 1. There's an extendable oil drain tank in the service bay, but there's no room to hoist a tall old 1930's automobile up above it so's you could drain the oil; specially with the service bay door folding into the area where the car would have to go if it *would* fit... (And if you drain the oil by crawling under the car to get to the drain plug, then why on Earth would you need an upright extendable oil draining tank anyway?) 2. I once managed a string of company-owned gas stations for Atlantic-Richfield, and I'm here to tell you that the only gas station that was ever that neat and clean was one that had opened the very same day. It needs weathering and grime! -Pete >> Nice model. Just one criticism, and it's something I see far too often on >> otherwise fine models: the typeface used for the sign. > > I see two other problems: <snip> > 2. I once managed a string of company-owned gas stations for > Atlantic-Richfield, and I'm here to tell you that the only gas station > that was ever that neat and clean was one that had opened the very same > day. It needs weathering and grime! My reaction, exactly. It's cleaner than a movie set! Where's the grease, the dirt, the grime, smeared all over the shop, and hand dirt om the pumps, and soot on the building from smoke.... mark "grime does pay" > >> Nice model. Just one criticism, and it's something I see far too often on > >> otherwise fine models: the typeface used for the sign. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > mark "grime does pay" Maybe its because the customer who consigned the build wanted it that way... >> 2. I once managed a string of company-owned gas stations for >> Atlantic-Richfield, and I'm here to tell you that the only gas station [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > mark "grime does pay" Yup. I was watching a guy running a freight train on the Tehachapi layout at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum* http://www.sdmodelrailroadm.com/tehachapi_pass.html last month, and it was quite revealing. The layout is state-of-the-art DCC, the scenery is spectacular, and the (steam) loco in question had a full -and very effective- sound installation and was being run at absolutely prototypical speeds, the operator observing all grade crossings with the proper whistle signals, etcetera, yet the illusion was completely shattered by the fact that the loco itself -as well as the rest of the train- looked as if it had rolled out of the paint shop ten minutes before I got there. I've been trainwatching for something like 61 years now, and so far I have yet to see my first clean freight train. -Pete * Follow the links and look at the pictures of the layout. It's really something! *snip* > I've been trainwatching for something like 61 years now, and so far I > have yet to see my first clean freight train. > > -Pete Keep in mind that most freight trains aren't super dirty, either. It depends on your modeling area, of course, but rail cars do get washed by the rain. Sometimes a little dullcote is all you need... Puckdropper SignatureIf you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm >> I've been trainwatching for something like 61 years now, and so far I >> have yet to see my first clean freight train. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sometimes a little dullcote is all you need... And sometimes one *does* see new -or freshly painted- rolling stock. But that's only "sometimes" -not "often". Most freight trains contain multiple cars that are (A) rusty, (B) dusty, (C) filthy, (D) greasy, (E) covered with graffiti, or (F) all of the above. (Cars that have been damaged in some way but that are still roadworthy aren't really unusual, either.) And it's certainly possible to overdo the weathering bit: real freight cars come in all conditions from brand new to doddering, and over-representation of either condition detracts from authenticity. But hey; if clean shiny freight trains are what turns your crank, then more power to you: after all, it's a hobby and they're *your* trains. But if you're going for a illusion of reality, having more than a few clean, freshly-painted-looking cars in a freight consist simply looks wrong. You could call it the "Lionel Syndrome" and not be too far off the mark. -Pete >>> I've been trainwatching for something like 61 years now, and so far I >>> have yet to see my first clean freight train. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And sometimes one *does* see new -or freshly painted- rolling stock. But > that's only "sometimes" -not "often". Most freight trains contain multiple <snip> Also, I would think that a real steam loco, no matter how recently washed, would, in the course of not many miles, would start showing soot, at least. mark > Also, I would think that a real steam loco, no matter how recently washed, > would, in the course of not many miles, would start showing soot, at > least. And that's one reason the Southern Pacific's famed "Daylight" paint scheme featured all black roofs and kept the white, orange, and red stripes down on the sides where they wouldn't show dirt as easily. -Pete >>>> I've been trainwatching for something like 61 years now, and so far I >>>> have yet to see my first clean freight train. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > mark Yes, and road dirt, too, which is why in the Good Old Days engine crew wiped down the engine as often as possible, with an oily rag, which gave a nice glossy sheen. Signaturewolf k. > Yes, and road dirt, too, which is why in the Good Old Days engine crew > wiped down the engine as often as possible, with an oily rag, which gave a > nice glossy sheen. If by "engine crew" you mean the engineer and fireman, they would probably have done the job way back when locos were still semi-permanently assigned to specific crews and cosmetic upkeep was one of their responsibilities; but that situation generally ended well before the turn of (the last) century. Ever since then the railroads have generally employed specialized crews to clean engines, and in steam days they were known as either "engine wipers" or just plain "wipers". On page 84 of his book "Beaumont Hill", John Signor shows a picture of the Southern Pacific's Colton roundhouse crew in 1944, prominently featuring five Mexican women who'd been hired as wipers to replace the men who were off to war. According to my dear old dad, the remaining men on the roundhouse crew were suitably scandalized.... -Pete >Nice model. Just one criticism, and it's something I see far too often >on otherwise fine models: the typeface used for the sign. There's no way [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >used on signs can make a big difference in "believeability". Someday I'm >gonna write a full-scale rant on this ... It really is a nice model, but the font selection bothered me immediately as well. Looks like arial. And to further nitpick a beautifully made model, the pumps look to be late '40's or 1950's vintage, so I'm not sure "service station" was a popular term yet. "Jack's Gas Station" or even "Jack's Auto Service" seem like better names. I won't even go into how narrow and large-diameter most of the tires are in the rack, as perhaps many of Jack's customers hadn't been able to afford a new car for a couple of decades :) But geepers- they are wrapped and even have labels on them. It_is_ a nice model... Dale >>Nice model. Just one criticism, and it's something I see far too often >>on otherwise fine models: the typeface used for the sign. There's no way [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Dale Well , I guess I'll get my .02 cents in as well. It looks like a plastic model to me. IMO , some of the models that come ready built look as good as this one. Of course , as someone else mentioned , maybe the person who bought it wanted it this way. kd Wow, what a tough crowd of critics -- yet no one shared a phot of how they modeled a filling station on their layouts. By the way, I love the fans up in the rafters. Signature____ Mark Mathu Whietfish Bay, Wis. > Wow, what a tough crowd of critics -- yet no one shared a phot of how they > modeled a filling station on their layouts. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Mark Mathu > Whietfish Bay, Wis. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't criticize the outstanding model, I figured it was the first day of the grand opening! Here's one of my n scale gas stations. Plenty of things to criticize here. <g> ... http://www.billsrailroad.net/slideshow/see-22.jpg Bill Bill's Railroad Empire N Scale Model Railroad: http://www.billsrailroad.net Brief History of N Scale: http://www.billsrailroad.net/history/n-scale Bill's Store--Books, Trains, and Toys: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bookstore Resources--Links to 1,200 sites: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links > Wow, what a tough crowd of critics -- yet no one shared a phot of how they > modeled a filling station on their layouts. What does that have to do with anything? You're saying one can't criticize anything unless they have done it themselves. So if I don't like my Ford, does that mean I can't be critical of it unless I've built my own car? Does that mean I can't be critical of my congressman unless I've been elected one? This seems to be a common refrain on the 'net. The instant you are critical of anything, you have some folks saying, "Oh, yeah? We'll let's see your work, pal!" It doesn't change the fact that something may have been incorrectly done on the original model, but it does do a rather nice job of redirecting the criticism (which is probably why they do it). Paul A. Cutler III ************* Weather Or No Go New Haven ************* On 6/6/2008 12:17 AM Mark Mathu spake thus: > Wow, what a tough crowd of critics -- yet no one shared a phot of how they > modeled a filling station on their layouts. Not only do I not have a filling station, I don't even have a layout. So sue me. > By the way, I love the fans up in the rafters. Missed those before; nice touch. SignatureThe best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. - Attributed to Winston Churchill > On 6/6/2008 12:17 AM Mark Mathu spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Missed those before; nice touch. In the era I model petrol was sold by chemists shops. > Wow, what a tough crowd of critics -- yet no one shared a phot of how they > modeled a filling station on their layouts. > > By the way, I love the fans up in the rafters. Er, uh, in the right hand photo in the middle row? I see the greenish-blue lampshades (with rather large lamps for O scale), the hoist, and what looks like a compressor and some belt wheels on top of the air tank (?) in hte back - but can't find any fans. Where should I look? SignatureSteve >> By the way, I love the fans up in the rafters. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > like a compressor and some belt wheels on top of the air tank (?) in the > back - but can't find any fans. Where should I look? Nope, no fans, but I *do* like the pinup girl's pic hanging on the back wall of the shop. -Pete > Wow, what a tough crowd of critics -- yet no one shared a phot of how they > modeled a filling station on their layouts. > > By the way, I love the fans up in the rafters. I'm just slowly putting the tables together. I lost my house the beginning of '03, in the Bush Depression, and never put it up in FL. I'm in an apt now, but after getting the bug and building a Penn Line Pennsy E-6 Atlantic, I've started working on it. I also need to work on the overtable protection against the All-Destroying Monsters (our Lords and Masters, the cats, of course). mark > I also need to work on the overtable protection > against the All-Destroying Monsters (our Lords > and Masters, the cats, of course). I used to have that problem. Then we adopted a couple of abandoned Rottweiler puppies. -Pete "mark" <whitroth@rcn.com> wrote >> I also need to work on the overtable protection >> against the All-Destroying Monsters (our Lords [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Then we adopted a couple of abandoned Rottweiler puppies. Sorry, but *real* ferals could take care of them. But right now, my real problem is the size of the room (small), and what I want to do (far too much). I'm trying to figure out how to get the over-curve above the lower section, and I don't have enough room for a full helix, and.... mark >>> I also need to work on the overtable protection >>> against the All-Destroying Monsters (our Lords [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sorry, but *real* ferals could take care of them. Forgive me for doubting that, but those same dogs chased a half-grown mountain lion out of our yard a year ago this spring, and I can't picture anything smaller than that standing firm in the face of a concerted charge... -Pete |
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