Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
ModelsRailroadsRockets
Radio Controlled
Air ModelsHelicoptersLand ModelsWater Models
ModelGeeks.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Model Forum / General / Railroads / August 2008



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

ideas for 4'x8' layout

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Brock - 20 Aug 2008 13:39 GMT
Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
8 with 18" bridge to the inside with 15" radius curves at each end and
another track (I'll be running two engines hopefully) running parallel
at 18" radius (simple oval for outside, maybe some switches connecting
the two.   thanks!!
Dan Merkel - 20 Aug 2008 16:14 GMT
> Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
> on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
> 8 with 18" bridge to the inside with 15" radius curves at each end and
> another track (I'll be running two engines hopefully) running parallel
> at 18" radius (simple oval for outside, maybe some switches connecting
> the two.   thanks!!

Brodk,

If you have access to a hobby shop, stop by and see if they have any track
planning / layout diagram books.  I read somewhere that, because of its
popularity in the lumber industry, that the venerable 4x8 is the most common
size layout built.  There are probably hndreds of plans designed for that
size.

One suggestion... if you are going to use 15" curves, don't plan on running
any really long equipment or bigger locomotives on it.  Most of the bigger
models today require at least 18" and in some cases, even 22" radius curves
to operate.  With 15" radius curves, I'd try to stick with smaller, shorter
locos and 40' or shorter freight cars.

Good luck!

dlm
video guy - www.locoworks.com - 20 Aug 2008 16:19 GMT
> > Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
> > on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> dlm

The OP didn't specify scale.  In N, 15" woiuld not be to constricting.
bladeslinger@earthlink.net - 20 Aug 2008 17:40 GMT
>> > Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
>> > on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>The OP didn't specify scale.  In N, 15" woiuld not be to constricting.

You didn't even read the part you quoted...he did say HO Scale!  Look
at what you quoted above.
Roger T. - 20 Aug 2008 19:06 GMT
A 4 x 8 requires at least an 8 x 12 foot space, if you want all around
access and even then that is tight which is why a 4 x 8 is just about the
worst thing you can build.

Think about going around the wall of the room with perhaps an 18" to 24"
wide shelf.  You'll find it much more satisfying to build and to operate
than a 4 x 8 foot tail chaser

--
Cheers
Roger T.
See the GER at: -
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/.
Bernhard Agthe - 21 Aug 2008 10:02 GMT
Hi,

> Think about going around the wall of the room with perhaps an 18" to 24"
> wide shelf.  You'll find it much more satisfying to build and to operate
> than a 4 x 8 foot tail chaser

Actually I did think about two smaller layouts right and left of the
sofa with a track connection behind the sofa. My space would have been a
bit too limited for that, but it might work for you?

Or actually build 2x4 feet "pieces" which connect to each other via
hinges or clamps, so you can later add "middle pieces"...

In any case, try to add a few tracks which terminate at the very edge of
the layout ("leaving the layout") so you can later expand it in that
direction (and meanwhile can tell everybody this is the connection to
the "United Global Rail Network" ;-)

Have fun!
Brock - 21 Aug 2008 15:07 GMT
The "sofa" idea is great. I'm thinking a 48"x48" on each end of the
sofa with a 96"x12" "connector". The 48"x48" would have 18" & 22"
radius loops and the connector would be like a mainline with a small
switchyard. I'd put my 18" Atlas arched bridge on the connector.

I'm guessing I need to avoid the temptation to go out and buy 3/4"
plywood and go with an open grid-style benchwork (correct my
terminology please) made of 1"x4" boards about 12" apart, then cutting
3/4" plywood to mount the track. (?)

> Hi,

> Actually I did think about two smaller layouts right and left of the
> sofa with a track connection behind the sofa. My space would have been a
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Have fun!
Chuck Kimbrough - 21 Aug 2008 15:45 GMT
1/2" plywood is plenty strong. one or two legs to suport the mainline.

> The "sofa" idea is great. I'm thinking a 48"x48" on each end of the
> sofa with a 96"x12" "connector". The 48"x48" would have 18" & 22"
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
>> Have fun!
Brock - 22 Aug 2008 20:36 GMT
I'm guessing 1/2" smooth plywood cut in the shape of my track would be
sturdy enough for mounting to the 1"x4" gridwork? Thinking of using
some type of "blue" dense insulating foam to support the in-between
areas that will have just landscape, no track.

Also, hypothetically, if I had a 48"x96" (remember this is for a kid
so they like a train that goes round and round) grid made of 1"x4"
spaced 12" apart could I create a up-and-over figure-8 within this
space using 18" or 22" radius track?. That is would the roughly 90" of
distance from each end of the figure-8 afford enough linear track
length to enable me to use my Atlas 18" arch bridge?

I'm doing the math in my head and for the "over" loop I'm figuring
100" from the low point below the bridge to the bridge overpass.
Assuming that the bridge would rise above the base surface about 3"
would I be correct that I'm looking at a 3 percent grade?

I'm just trying to figure whether my Athearn F7 or SW-1 switcher with
about 9 40' cars could make it up such a grade (?).

I guess you can tell I love my Atlas bridge and want it in this layout
somewhere! What would really be nice would be to find room for a
separate line using the smaller radius 15" to form some type of oval
meandering inside the area formed by the 18" radius figure-8.

I'm going to a huge model rr shop tomorrow to first get some layout
books. I'm new to this so I want to make sure of the basics before I
start screwing 1"x4" sections together although the idea is great that
you mentioned to start by building a few 24"x48" sections to be
assembled as modules. This way I could move them around before
settling on a design which may well evolve into two 48" square ends
with 2 24"x48" "connectors" between the two.

> 1/2" plywood is plenty strong. one or two legs to suport the mainline.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dan Merkel - 25 Aug 2008 21:29 GMT
I'm guessing 1/2" smooth plywood cut in the shape of my track would be
sturdy enough for mounting to the 1"x4" gridwork? Thinking of using
some type of "blue" dense insulating foam to support the in-between
areas that will have just landscape, no track.

>>> I've laid cork foadbed on the foam then laid the track on that.  With
>>> Plywood underneath it, you should have plenty of strength.  If you nail
>>> the track directly to the plywood, you may get some resonance from the
>>> engine on the track.  It would make a lot more noise that way.

Also, hypothetically, if I had a 48"x96" (remember this is for a kid
so they like a train that goes round and round) grid made of 1"x4"
spaced 12" apart could I create a up-and-over figure-8 within this
space using 18" or 22" radius track?. That is would the roughly 90" of
distance from each end of the figure-8 afford enough linear track
length to enable me to use my Atlas 18" arch bridge?

>>> I've not done the math, but I'd guess you are "pushing the limit" on
>>> that one.  You would have to look at a figure-8 and see how much
>>> straight track it called for at the part that passes over the bottom.

I'm doing the math in my head and for the "over" loop I'm figuring
100" from the low point below the bridge to the bridge overpass.
Assuming that the bridge would rise above the base surface about 3"
would I be correct that I'm looking at a 3 percent grade?

>>> You will only have about 25% of your locomotive's flat tractive effort
>>> on a 2%grade.  I'd think that you would be looking at only about 3-4
>>> cars max on a 3% incline.  I also believe that you will find that you
>>> will need more than a 3% rise to get the track over itself.  I'd
>>> estimate about 4.25-4.5%... that's getting really steep.  Plus that will
>>> be on a curve and that will make things pull even harder.

I'm just trying to figure whether my Athearn F7 or SW-1 switcher with
about 9 40' cars could make it up such a grade (?).

>>> Boy, I doubt that...  : (

dlm
Puckdropper - 26 Aug 2008 04:57 GMT
> "Brock" <wade.brock@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>> You will only have about 25% of your locomotive's flat tractive
>> effort on a 2%grade.  I'd think that you would be looking at only
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> dlm

I'd go for a Walthers Trainline locomotive if you're going up grades.  
They are excellent pullers, last month I took a 54 car train all around
the steep grades on my club's layout with two GP9Ms.  The ruling grade is
probably about 2.5%.  I didn't take the train up the steepest grade,
though... but did take it down it.

They're a little more expensive than Athearn locomotives, but the
difference is only like $5-10.

Puckdropper
Signature

If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Dan Merkel - 26 Aug 2008 14:03 GMT
>> "Brock" <wade.brock@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Puckdropper

Anyone remember right off hand what the incline is on a set of plastic
trestle risers?  I'm thinking that they were designed to raise the train
about 3" on a semi-circle of HO, 18" radius track.  I don't think you could
use 22: and still have a loop of track outside of that.  So,if that's the
case...

pi (3.14) x 36"=113.04
113.04 / 2=56.52
3 / 56.52=.053 or a 5.3% grade.

Add to that the 18" radius curve and you have a real pull.

dlm
Chuck Kimbrough - 26 Aug 2008 17:43 GMT
snip

> Anyone remember right off hand what the incline is on a set of plastic
> trestle risers?  I'm thinking that they were designed to raise the train
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> dlm

To get the plastic risers to work correctly on a figure 8 layout, you
start with the crossing straight. Then you start the rise with the next
piece of flex track. Continue the risers to the other crossing straight.
Then start down. That works out to about a 3% grade.
Dan Merkel - 27 Aug 2008 15:20 GMT
> snip
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> piece of flex track. Continue the risers to the other crossing straight.
> Then start down. That works out to about a 3% grade.

I'm not sure but I think the original poster talked about a loop outside of
that track.  If you had a pair of turnouts to connect the two, they wuld
have to be near one of the "sides" of the figure-8.  That's why I estimated
that a portion of the 8 would have to be flat on the layout.

I'd agree that with just a figure-8, you would start immediately after the
corssing point...

dlm
Dan Merkel - 21 Aug 2008 16:13 GMT
The "sofa" idea is great. I'm thinking a 48"x48" on each end of the
sofa with a 96"x12" "connector". The 48"x48" would have 18" & 22"
radius loops and the connector would be like a mainline with a small
switchyard. I'd put my 18" Atlas arched bridge on the connector.

I'm guessing I need to avoid the temptation to go out and buy 3/4"
plywood and go with an open grid-style benchwork (correct my
terminology please) made of 1"x4" boards about 12" apart, then cutting
3/4" plywood to mount the track. (?)

Brock,

First thing is that you need to try to decide what you want to do.  If you
just want some trains to run round & round, that will take a different
approach than if you want to do intircate switching moves.  Usually, most of
us settle for something in between.

Second, you need to decide if this is going to be your only layout.  I'm on
my third one right now.  I learned a lot from the first two so you can think
of early efforts as learning experiences.  As you might guess, you will
include skills learned and ideas tested in subsequent projects as you go
along.

Third, as to whether or not you want to lay track on 3/4" plywood... that is
kind of determined by how many hills / mountains you want in your model.  If
you were modeling the midwest, you would want to be much more flat than the
Rocky Mountains.  Even the road that you model won't always determine
this... the Union Pacific goes both over the mountains and across the
plains; the C&O went through the mountains of Virginia and across the
flatlands of Ohio.  Decide what you want to do then go from there.

As you have already learned, everyone has an opinion.  And, with few
exceptions, most all of them are "right" depending on what you want to do.
Is a plywood base "right" for you?  If you are going to be content to just
have a couple of loops of track with some buildings, then probably so.  My
current layout is built with plywood strips in kind of a gridwork fashion
with 1/4" luan plywood on that, topped off with a sheet of 3/4" blue foam
insulation.  That isn't right for everyone but it suits my needs perfectly.

Finally, and I'll take some real flak here from others:  it is YOUR railroad
so do what YOU want to do.  If you want to haul modern Amtrak passenger cars
with old steamers, go for it.  It won't be "right" based on what really
happened on the railroads, but if it's what you want, do it.  If your first
building efforts don't look like those that you see in MODEL RAILROADER
magazine, don't despair.  Keep the building as a measuring stick to judge
the improved skills you acquire over time.  Take your time, accomplish
little things to accomplish the big things and remember that a layout is
never done... once you think you are totally done, you will realize that
cars may need weathered, buildings may need painted, trees may need
improved... this is a lifelong hobby and you will probably have plenty of
time to do all of the stuff you want to try.  You don't need to do it the
first day.

A friend of mine tried model railroading... he went out and bought a very
expensive building kit and gave up about a third of the way into it.  "Too
hard & too expensive..." he says to me.  No, he just bit off more than he
could chew with that first bite.  Start simple but dream big.  Most of all,
HAVE FUN!

Ask questions here or contact us individually; most of us are willing to
share.

dlm
Brock - 21 Aug 2008 16:54 GMT
I'll probably be wanting a few modest hills. and some dropoffs or
rivers but I'm sure up or down from the main plane will not exceed 4".

> The "sofa" idea is great. I'm thinking a 48"x48" on each end of the
> sofa with a 96"x12" "connector". The 48"x48" would have 18" & 22"
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> dlm
Wolf Kirchmeir - 21 Aug 2008 20:54 GMT
> The "sofa" idea is great. I'm thinking a 48"x48" on each end of the
> sofa with a 96"x12" "connector". The 48"x48" would have 18" & 22"
> radius loops and the connector would be like a mainline with a small
> switchyard. I'd put my 18" Atlas arched bridge on the connector.

Good concept.

> I'm guessing I need to avoid the temptation to go out and buy 3/4"
> plywood and go with an open grid-style benchwork (correct my
> terminology please) made of 1"x4" boards about 12" apart, then cutting
> 3/4" plywood to mount the track. (?)

I _strongly_ suggest you acquire one of the following, all by Kalmbach
Publishing. Your local public library may have copies, too.

Building Your First Model Railroad ($12.95)
Basic Model Railroading ($117.95)
HO Scale Model Railroading ($19.95)
Project Railroads You Can Build ($16.95)

These will answer your current questions, as well as those you haven't
thought of yet. As your experience grows, many of of Kalmbach's other
books will be of interest, as well as those published by Railroad Model
Craftsman.

Enjoy!

Signature

wolf k.

mark - 22 Aug 2008 01:41 GMT
>> Think about going around the wall of the room with perhaps an 18" to 24"
>> wide shelf.  You'll find it much more satisfying to build and to operate
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Or actually build 2x4 feet "pieces" which connect to each other via
> hinges or clamps, so you can later add "middle pieces"...
<snip>
I'd recommend the latter, also. For one thing, when you move, it's a lot
easier to transport.

          mark, moved with trainset halfway across the country three times
video guy - www.locoworks.com - 20 Aug 2008 16:20 GMT
> > Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
> > on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> dlm

Oops!  Sorry, just re-read post and saw HO.  [hangs head shamefully]
Carry on.
Brock - 20 Aug 2008 17:18 GMT
Good point on the 15" Radius... I'm running just an F7 loco, SW-1
loco, all 40' boxes, 34' hoppers, etc... era will be the
1940's-1960's.. Southern Railway small mill-town so I'm trying to keep
everything 40' or less... Thanks!

> > Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
> > on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> dlm
Wolf Kirchmeir - 20 Aug 2008 17:05 GMT
> Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
> on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
> 8 with 18" bridge to the inside with 15" radius curves at each end and
> another track (I'll be running two engines hopefully) running parallel
> at 18" radius (simple oval for outside, maybe some switches connecting
> the two.   thanks!!

Your concept is a good one, and has been used as the basis of excellent
layouts. But your radii are too small. (See other replies about this.)

Buld a double track oval using 22" radius curves for the outside track,
and 18" for the inside track, which you can configure as an
over-and-under figure 8 with no trouble. Unless you are OK with backing
up a train, you will need two crossovers facing in opposite directions.

The success of the layout will depend on two main factors:
a) careful construction, to ensure trouble-free operation;
b) addition of scenic and other details to make it look good. This is
where you and your son (and his mother!) will have a lot of fun deciding
what to do, and later on, how to change it. ;-)

And you will change it. If this becomes a major pastime for you and your
son, your notions of what you can and wish to do with the layout will
change. So don't consider this is a permanent layout.

HTH

Signature

wolf k.

Bill - 20 Aug 2008 18:51 GMT
> Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
> on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
> 8 with 18" bridge to the inside with 15" radius curves at each end and
> another track (I'll be running two engines hopefully) running parallel
> at 18" radius (simple oval for outside, maybe some switches connecting
> the two.   thanks!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thor's All Gauge Page has a wealth of valuable information:

http://www.thortrains.com/

These two books are very popular:

This has been my favorite for nearly 40 years..."101 Track Plans for
Model Railroaders", by Linn Westcott:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0890245126/qid%3D1021250334/ref%3Dsr_11_0
_1/104-3183206-0063943/billsrailroaempi/


"Big Book of Model Railroad Track Plans", by Robert Schleicher:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0890245126/qid%3D1021250334/ref%3Dsr_11_0
_1/104-3183206-0063943/billsrailroaempi/


Good luck! I'm sure you and your son will derive a lot of pleasure
from the model railroad!

Bill
Bill's Railroad Empire
N Scale Model Railroad:
http://www.billsrailroad.net
Brief History of N Scale:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/history/n-scale
Bill's Store--Books, Trains, and Toys:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/bookstore
Resources--Links to 1,200 sites:
http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links
Gordon - 20 Aug 2008 22:01 GMT
>> Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would
>> fit on a 4'x8' maximum area?

> Thor's All Gauge Page has a wealth of valuable information:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Good luck! I'm sure you and your son will derive a lot of pleasure
> from the model railroad!

I would also recomend "Track Planning for Realistic Operation"
Which will show you why just about every plan in "101 Track
Plans" needs some modification.
RSMBob - 22 Aug 2008 22:38 GMT
> Does anyone know of a source for layout ideas for an HO that would fit
> on a 4'x8' maximum area? I'm hoping to have a combination of a figure
> 8 with 18" bridge to the inside with 15" radius curves at each end and
> another track (I'll be running two engines hopefully) running parallel
> at 18" radius (simple oval for outside, maybe some switches connecting
> the two.   thanks!!

If you can go 1 more foot to 5x9, Atlas had a great plan in one of their
books called the Granite Gorge & Northern. I built it as a kid before going
to N Scale and it was fun to build and interesting to run.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.