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Model Forum / General / Railroads / August 2009Fastener question
I need some help with a project: Our club has a portable layout that we haul from place to place. The legs consist of PVC pipe with plastic caps equipped with leg levelers. The levelers currently use a threaded brass furniture insert with a carriage bolt threaded inside and the legs are leveled by rotating the bolt. The problem is that this is a kind of cobbled approach. What we REALLY need is an "insert" (for lack of a better term) that is made of steel (brass is too soft) that is about 1/2" in ouside diameter with a machine thread, maybe 1/2 x 13, and an inside 1/4 x 20 thread. It needs to be at least 3/4" long. 1" would even be better. Does anyone know where we could find something like this, or failing that, where we could get 50 or so manufactured? Jeff  Signature"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Richard Feynman Nobel Prize Physicist > I need some help with a project: Our club has a portable layout that we haul > from place to place. The legs consist of PVC pipe with plastic caps equipped [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > could find something like this, or failing that, where we could get 50 or so > manufactured? Would this do: http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/billiards/49099702.htm Or this: http://www.etundra.com/Table_Leveler_w__Metal_Base___1_4__x_3_4__Stud-P1338.html Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?q=table+leg+levelers And: http://www.google.com/search?q=threaded+insert > Jeff SignatureRobert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ Perhaps the term "insert" is getting in the way. Everything I have found so far is a self-tapping product. What I really need is something that I can fasten into my leg caps with nuts, so it needs to be at least 3/4" long, preferably 1" Jeff Signature"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Richard Feynman Nobel Prize Physicist > At Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:33 -0400 "Jeff Stanton" <jstanton@hughes.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >> Jeff > Perhaps the term "insert" is getting in the way. Everything I have found > so far is a self-tapping product. What I really need is something that I [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >>> Jeff How about a wood plug with the inside diameter of the cap. screw it in from the sides so it won't move. drill it and the cap then remove the plug and put a T nut in and put the plug back and then the cap on the leg. SignatureFrank Rosenbaum Please note the new email address: farosenbaum@optimum.net Please Support the following train shows: Kalamazoo Model Railroad Historical Society, MI.: www.kmrhs.org Gratiot Valley Railroad Club, MI: www.gvrr.org The problem we have had with T-nuts is that they cannot withstand the lateral forces of moving the modules around, or even the flexing that occurs when the modules are leaned on during the normal course of operation. Those with tabs pull out, even if secured with adhesive, and those with screw mounting require screws so small that they pull out of the wood. Believe me, we have tried virtually everything with T-nuts. Jeff Signature"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Richard Feynman Nobel Prize Physicist >> Perhaps the term "insert" is getting in the way. Everything I have found >> so far is a self-tapping product. What I really need is something that I [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > from the sides so it won't move. drill it and the cap then remove the plug > and put a T nut in and put the plug back and then the cap on the leg. On 8/22/2009 11:14 AM Jeff Stanton spake thus: > I need some help with a project: Our club has a portable layout that we haul > from place to place. The legs consist of PVC pipe with plastic caps equipped [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > could find something like this, or failing that, where we could get 50 or so > manufactured? I'd look into ordinary T-nuts, like these: http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Fastener-Corp-124417-T-Nuts/dp/B000CZ4F6S (you can get ones with longer, skinnier prongs than this) They'd go on the bottoms of the caps, on the outside, so the weight of the layout would hold them tight. Drill a center hole for the screw and four small holes for the prongs, maybe use a dab of epoxy to keep them from falling out. Much cheaper and easier to obtain than Robert's pool-table-leg levelers. SignatureFound--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism > On 8/22/2009 11:14 AM Jeff Stanton spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Much cheaper and easier to obtain than Robert's pool-table-leg levelers. We tried the T nut rout for our 2x2 legs on our club layout. The nuts kept falling out, the bolts would vibrate out and in general it was unsatisfactory. We changed to EZ-Lok inserts and hammered the threds befor inserting into the legs. No more problems. On 8/22/2009 3:14 PM Chuck Kimbrough spake thus: >> On 8/22/2009 11:14 AM Jeff Stanton spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > kept falling out, the bolts would vibrate out and in general it was > unsatisfactory. There's another kind of T-nut that hardware stores have in the "nifty little miscellaneous parts" section, that has 3 holes instead of prongs. One could fasten these to the PVC caps with sheet metal screws, which ought to hold them in pretty well. SignatureFound--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism > On 8/22/2009 3:14 PM Chuck Kimbrough spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > One could fasten these to the PVC caps with sheet metal screws, which > ought to hold them in pretty well. Or you could just forego the caps, epoxy dowel into the end of the legs, and use plain ole tee nuts. A jam nut threaded onto the elevator bolt will lock the bolt in position, and allow for easy adjustment. fl@liner SignatureMike "A man who thinks of himself as belonging to a particular national group in America has not yet become an American. And the man who goes among you to trade upon your nationality is no worthy son to live under the Stars and Stripes." -- Woodrow Wilson Thanks to all for your help. We have tried all the mentioned variations of T-nuts, but none can stand up to lateral forces generated when the position of modules is shifted. What we really need is some sort of threaded insert that can be securely bolted into the cap. In addition, we have found that epoxy or similar products just don't hold well in PVC pipe. Jeff Signature"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Richard Feynman Nobel Prize Physicist >> On 8/22/2009 3:14 PM Chuck Kimbrough spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > fl@liner > Thanks to all for your help. We have tried all the mentioned variations > of T-nuts, but none can stand up to lateral forces generated when the > position of modules is shifted. What we really need is some sort of > threaded insert that can be securely bolted into the cap. In addition, > we have found that epoxy or similar products just don't hold well in PVC > pipe. Jeff Jeff, how about a piece of 1/4" pipe threaded on both ends so it can be bolted into the leg? The problem to me would seem to lie in the thinness of the pipe cap. Perhaps you could find smaller PVC pieces that could be used to reduce the inside diameter of the leg to the same as the pipe outside diameter. If so, you might not need the pipe. Then install a long machine screw and secure it. I would even consider epoxying it in. SignatureIntelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw The club I belong to uses eye-bolts threaded into nuts in the caps. Looks a bit flakey, but you can then use a rod to turn the eye-bolt when leveling the module. We then use a 3/4" piece of ply 6" square between the ground and the eye-bolt when we're on dirt instead of concrete. Have had the occassional problem of the nut popping loose, but we keep spares on hand during shows.. The modules themselves are light enough that we just get a few members together and lift them when we need to move them. Can't recall what we use to glue the nuts onto the caps with though - probably epoxy, but maybe some of the newer 'gorilla' glues would work as well... Matt > Thanks to all for your help. We have tried all the mentioned variations of > T-nuts, but none can stand up to lateral forces generated when the [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> >> fl@liner Actually, I'm getting a little closer to a solution. It appears that the simplest solution is something called a reducing bushing. They make them with a male thread of 1/2" and a female thread or 1/4". Unfortunately, the female thread is a pipe thread, and I need a 1/4 x 20 machine thread. The male thread can be almost anything. I may have to find someone to custom make them for us. I appreciate all of the suggestions offered here, but many of them would require us to go back almost to square one. Our legs and leg end caps have been purchased or constructed, and all we need is a reliable adapter to mount the leg levelers. Jeff Signature"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Richard Feynman Nobel Prize Physicist > The club I belong to uses eye-bolts threaded into nuts in the caps. Looks > a bit flakey, but you can then use a rod to turn the eye-bolt when [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >>> >>> fl@liner On 8/23/2009 5:16 PM Jeff Stanton spake thus: > Actually, I'm getting a little closer to a solution. It appears that > the simplest solution is something called a reducing bushing. They > make them with a male thread of 1/2" and a female thread or 1/4". > Unfortunately, the female thread is a pipe thread, and I need a 1/4 x > 20 machine thread. The male thread can be almost anything. I may > have to find someone to custom make them for us. I was going to write, before my Usenet access was so rudely cut off, that what you need is one of these-- http://www.plumbingsupply.com/images/pvc-fitting-439-threaded-bushing-mipsxfips.jpg --except not plastic and with machine threads, as you pointed out. Regarding threads, I wonder if you couldn't just buy plumbing bushings and re-tap the threads with a regular tap to remove the taper? I think the FIP threads are the same as regular machine threads, except tapered. SignatureFound--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism > On 8/23/2009 5:16 PM Jeff Stanton spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > and re-tap the threads with a regular tap to remove the taper? I think > the FIP threads are the same as regular machine threads, except tapered. You also get threaded plumbing adapter and use *steel* caps instead of plastic ones. You can drill and tap the *steel* cap. Or if more ambitious, get a solid steel plumbing plug, and drill and tap that. You'll probably want a (heavy duty) drill press for this. SignatureRobert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ > Actually, I'm getting a little closer to a solution. It appears that > the simplest solution is something called a reducing bushing. They [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > constructed, and all we need is a reliable adapter to mount the leg > levelers. Jeff How about something like this? http://www.empiredistribution.biz/nut.html They're called "insert nuts" and I've found them at my local hardware store. The style I got drive in with a hex wrench, then the machine thread bolt inserts into the center. Puckdropper Signature"The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on rec.woodworking To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm >I need some help with a project: Our club has a portable layout that we haul >from place to place. The legs consist of PVC pipe with plastic caps equipped [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >manufactured? >Jeff Trying a different tack: how about three-legged trestles and put the levellers at the top between the legs and the layout boards? Tim On 8/22/2009 11:14 AM Jeff Stanton spake thus: > I need some help with a project: Our club has a portable layout that we haul > from place to place. The legs consist of PVC pipe with plastic caps equipped > with leg levelers. The levelers currently use a threaded brass furniture > insert with a carriage bolt threaded inside and the legs are leveled by > rotating the bolt. Just ran across this page and thought this guy's shop-made leg levelers looked interesting (near bottom of page): http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/RadialArmSaw Of course, you couldn't use these with your pipe legs, but they would work nicely with wood legs. SignatureFound--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism |
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