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Model Forum / General / Railroads / February 2010



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LDosser - 29 Jan 2010 07:14 GMT
Got the Walthers Flyer yesterday and had a question for almost every page. A
sampling:

Why do most of Preiser's female figures look like hookers?

Why is Walthers still selling grass mat? Does anyone still buy that stuff?

How do they know when I change scales?

Are today's modelers so incompetent they'll pay $7.98 for a plastic, wooden
loading dock they could knock together in ten minutes?

Same for ash/inspection pits, they're holes in the roadbed?! Getting the
hole square is the Toughest part!

Is Fucia (Puce?) Really the current color of DT&I boxcars?

Has Model Railroader built their last 4x8 Central Project Railroad?
Bernhard Agthe - 29 Jan 2010 08:37 GMT
Hi,

> Why do most of Preiser's female figures look like hookers?

Don't know, but there are less ... hooking ... ones, also ;-) Or did you
manage to find their "nude" line?

> Why is Walthers still selling grass mat? Does anyone still buy that stuff?

Yup. Lots of people who want to "grass" larger areas (and only later
find that doesn't work well on anything but flat areas). Actually many
flat-board layouts use the mats. I find them a bit toylike, but you know...

> Are today's modelers so incompetent they'll pay $7.98 for a plastic,
> wooden loading dock they could knock together in ten minutes?

Sure ;-) Well, it's a matter of convenience (I'd use the plastic one, if
it came with a shed I like, but I wouldn't buy it extra ;-)

> Same for ash/inspection pits, they're holes in the roadbed?! Getting the
> hole square is the Toughest part!

Obviously that kind of stuff sells?

;-)

What's a more interesting question for me: why do they sell BIG locos
everywhere, but it's hard to find the small ones (which are much more
apropriate for small layouts)? At least here you'll get the large road
locos (and cheap!) while it's almost impossible to find the small
switchers for less than a fortune...

And why do they sell thousands of road cars, but few (if any) nice train
cars? You can buy the long intercity wagons, but none of the shorter
cars - again for a small layout this is not good ;-)

Ciao...
LDosser - 30 Jan 2010 05:27 GMT
snip

> What's a more interesting question for me: why do they sell BIG locos
> everywhere, but it's hard to find the small ones (which are much more
> apropriate for small layouts)? At least here you'll get the large road
> locos (and cheap!) while it's almost impossible to find the small
> switchers for less than a fortune...

That is a good one. But, I must confess I have a few locos that will not run
on any layout I have space for. The best I can hope for is running them on a
club layout or a test track.

> And why do they sell thousands of road cars, but few (if any) nice train
> cars? You can buy the long intercity wagons, but none of the shorter
> cars - again for a small layout this is not good ;-)

Flash and Dazzle!
Greg.Procter - 10 Feb 2010 21:08 GMT
> Hi,

> What's a more interesting question for me: why do they sell BIG locos  
> everywhere, but it's hard to find the small ones (which are much more  
> apropriate for small layouts)? At least here you'll get the large road  
> locos (and cheap!) while it's almost impossible to find the small  
> switchers for less than a fortune...

The problem there is that small locos need almost as many parts and as
much assembling as large locos. The result is that a good quality
small loco would cost almost as much as as a large one (per scale)
An N gauge loco has (theoretically) only 1/8th of the volume of
the same prototype in HO, but the price of the N loco is only a
little less than the HO model for the same quality.
US firms like Athearn have made small locos with cheap drives
so you expect a small loco to be $9.98 so $99.98 small locos
(probably) wouldn't sell.
I just bought a Brawa 0-6-0 tank loco (European outline)
for Eu 239-. It's beautiful and runs as it should, scale speeds
through turnouts ... Eu 239- is an awful lot of money for a
tiny, mostly plastic toy, but my layout needs it and I can toss
out the nasty, cheap starter set 0-6-0t locos I've made do with
up to now.

Greg.P.
Bernhard Agthe - 11 Feb 2010 15:32 GMT
Hi,

> The problem there is that small locos need almost as many parts and as
> much assembling as large locos. The result is that a good quality
> small loco would cost almost as much as as a large one (per scale)

Agreed.

> An N gauge loco has (theoretically) only 1/8th of the volume of
> the same prototype in HO, but the price of the N loco is only a
> little less than the HO model for the same quality.

Interesting point of view ;-)

> US firms like Athearn have made small locos with cheap drives
> so you expect a small loco to be $9.98 so $99.98 small locos
> (probably) wouldn't sell.

Well, you can buy $80 mainline locos. Which are basically empty inside -
or filled with weight. Basically the same drive, just inside less weight
would make a small loco - I decline to consider "space requirements" a
problem, especially when I consider that there's always room for a
decoder, even in Z scale. So, while there are a few switcher locos to
buy (some of them actually in the below-$100 range), models for American
prototypes are not readily available in Europe (especially in Germany!)
- and the European switchers and DMUs are rather on the expensive side.
And they are difficult to obtain, still, because most of the shops I can
go to don't sell them (I do buy locally as far as possible).

But locos are less of a problem compared to wagons - most of the short
wagons they sell here are either two-axle stock (which I don't like
much) or are loooooong (which don't fit my layout). One of the reasons
for using American-style rolling stock is the fact that only
American-style four-axle short wagons are available. Getting wagons in
DIY-kits is almost unheard-of. The discrepancy between wagons and locos
available in model shops and in the real-world is horrible...

> I just bought a Brawa 0-6-0 tank loco (European outline)
> for Eu 239-. It's beautiful and runs as it should, scale speeds
> through turnouts ... Eu 239- is an awful lot of money for a
> tiny, mostly plastic toy, but my layout needs it and I can toss
> out the nasty, cheap starter set 0-6-0t locos I've made do with
> up to now.

As I said, there's stuff available, but it's rather limited compared to
"the real world" - in reality there's likely as much switching equipment
as mainline equipment - in the hobby stores it's almost exclusively
mainline equipment. Probably this is due to the fact that most people
only "see" the mainline equipment when they think of trains, but know
(or "see") little of what's going on behind the scenes.

So big stuff sells - even if it doesn't even fit the super-small pizza's
of the starter packs - mainline loco and two or three big wagons occupy
a third of the track they provide in the box! Don't look to closely at
the "train" from the outside of the curves :-(

Yeah, well, the world is a bad place to live - too many people, too
little brain ;-)

Just as an on-season joke, I'm happy my model train layout is situated
in summer/fall - I'd go crazy trying to model all the failures and
delays that the real trains seem to be experiencing - and the winter's
not even bad here... Every time a snow flake is lying cross-wise on the
tracks, there's a delay...

Ciao...
Greg.Procter - 18 Feb 2010 21:31 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> only "see" the mainline equipment when they think of trains, but know  
> (or "see") little of what's going on behind the scenes.

Brawa offers, or offered HO US stock. The US outline leaflet comes with the
European leaflet from Brawa each year. I presume it's US "Lifelike",  
probably
made in the same Chinese factory as Brawa models.

> So big stuff sells - even if it doesn't even fit the super-small pizza's  
> of the starter packs - mainline loco and two or three big wagons occupy  
> a third of the track they provide in the box! Don't look to closely at  
> the "train" from the outside of the curves :-(

There's still lots of small models amongst the big stuff - between
Maerklin, Trix Fleischmann and Roco there must be about 300 pages of
new items each year but I buy one or two locos and a small carton of
wagons etc.

> Yeah, well, the world is a bad place to live - too many people, too  
> little brain ;-)

Stay focussed on the trains - you can never have enough!

> Just as an on-season joke, I'm happy my model train layout is situated  
> in summer/fall - I'd go crazy trying to model all the failures and  
> delays that the real trains seem to be experiencing - and the winter's  
> not even bad here... Every time a snow flake is lying cross-wise on the  
> tracks, there's a delay...

Mine are situated before Adolf - back when snow was an everyday occurance
and trains got through.

Greg.P.
Wuerttemberg had short 4 axle wagons :-)
Steve Caple - 29 Jan 2010 17:01 GMT
> Why is Walthers . . .

* seemingly promoting such a destructive and uneconomic industry as corn
ethanol  -  do they have money in it?  relatives in it?

* totally out of stock on the excellent Proto 2000 Type 21 tank cars?

* unable to supply decals, at least, for an A. E. Staley transition era
tank car?

* trumpeting massive garage sized industries like steel plants, or
comically tiny E. L. Moore looking "industries"

* unable  -  like my LHS, also  -  to supply Code 70 or Code 55 flextrack
- part of their assuprtion everyone wants UP streamline passenger cars,
double stack container flats and funnel flow massive toxic spill tank cars?

Signature

Steve

LDosser - 30 Jan 2010 05:28 GMT
>> Why is Walthers . . .
>
> * seemingly promoting such a destructive and uneconomic industry as corn
> ethanol  -  do they have money in it?  relatives in it?

And the steel industry. Hands up all those who model the steel industry.
David Nebenzahl - 30 Jan 2010 06:44 GMT
On 1/29/2010 9:28 PM LDosser spake thus:

>>> Why is Walthers . . .
>>
>> * seemingly promoting such a destructive and uneconomic industry as corn
>> ethanol  -  do they have money in it?  relatives in it?
>
> And the steel industry. Hands up all those who model the steel industry.

I would if I had a layout. I loves the look of a huge steel plant.

For some outstanding examples, check out Charles Scheeler's 1930
photographs of Ford's River Rouge plant, complete with its own steel
mill and foundry. Magnificent structures ...

Signature

You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

LDosser - 30 Jan 2010 09:50 GMT
> On 1/29/2010 9:28 PM LDosser spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> photographs of Ford's River Rouge plant, complete with its own steel mill
> and foundry. Magnificent structures ...

Got a basketball court?
Puckdropper - 29 Jan 2010 19:45 GMT
> Got the Walthers Flyer yesterday and had a question for almost every
> page. A sampling:

*snip*

> Why is Walthers still selling grass mat? Does anyone still buy that
> stuff?

Thousands of people do each year, I'm sure.  Grass mat is one of those
things that look quick and easy, and if it's all you want it is.  Parents
of kids who got their first train set find it an easy thing to get and
use.  Mine did.

> How do they know when I change scales?

The proverbial candy store sticks enough sweet and sour candy to keep
both lovers happy. ;-)

> Are today's modelers so incompetent they'll pay $7.98 for a plastic,
> wooden loading dock they could knock together in ten minutes?

Building anything takes time to develop skills.  Simple projects usually
aren't.

> Same for ash/inspection pits, they're holes in the roadbed?! Getting
> the hole square is the Toughest part!

Holes are just the start.  There's got to be access underneath somehow.

*snip*

Puckdropper
David Nebenzahl - 29 Jan 2010 20:07 GMT
On 1/29/2010 11:45 AM Puckdropper spake thus:

>> Same for ash/inspection pits, they're holes in the roadbed?! Getting
>> the hole square is the Toughest part!
>
> Holes are just the start.  There's got to be access underneath somehow.

Access underneath? What on earth for?

Oh, you must be thinking of the Lionel Ash Pit Action set, with the crew
that digs out the hole.

Otherwise, it's just a damn hole.

Signature

You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

Puckdropper - 30 Jan 2010 00:48 GMT
> On 1/29/2010 11:45 AM Puckdropper spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Otherwise, it's just a damn hole.

I haven't seen the latest Walthers flyer (they don't seem to want to
send them to me, and I've been too busy to get to the LHS), but I'd
expect a model of an inspection pit to have some form of access so the
workers can actually get down and up.  If the "model" is indeed a hole
in the ground, then my comment can safely be ignored as "technically
right, but not what we're talking about." ;-)

Puckdropper
Twibil - 30 Jan 2010 01:47 GMT
> I haven't seen the latest Walthers flyer (they don't seem to want to
> send them to me, and I've been too busy to get to the LHS), but I'd
> expect a model of an inspection pit to have some form of access so the
> workers can actually get down and up.

In real life most of them had stairs at one or both ends, but I've
seen some that seemed to have no stairs or ladders at all -but had a
cross-connected tunnel that served a number of pits as a common access
point.
Larry Blanchard - 29 Jan 2010 23:43 GMT
>> Why is Walthers still selling grass mat? Does anyone still buy that
>> stuff?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Parents of kids who got their first train set find it an easy thing to
> get and use.  Mine did.

If you cut out small irregular patches and surround them with ground foam
grass and bushes, it can look pretty good.  Sort of like a particular
species has crowded everything else out in that area.  But you need the
good stuff.  The last stuff I used was some sort of pasture grass - it
might have been Noch, but I'm not sure.  I got it at the big train store
in Denver.

Signature

Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

LDosser - 30 Jan 2010 05:36 GMT
> "LDosser" <LD@invalid.invalid> wrote in
snip

>> Are today's modelers so incompetent they'll pay $7.98 for a plastic,
>> wooden loading dock they could knock together in ten minutes?
>
> Building anything takes time to develop skills.  Simple projects usually
> aren't.

A loading dock? Five year olds with minimal instruction, a glue stick, and
some coffee stirrers could build one!

>> Same for ash/inspection pits, they're holes in the roadbed?! Getting
>> the hole square is the Toughest part!
>
> Holes are just the start.  There's got to be access underneath somehow.

Access underneath what?
Bob May - 29 Jan 2010 22:51 GMT
Most of the  Prieseer figures seem to be 50's era  clothing.  The new stuff
is more 80-90's era clothing.   Then there's the bare beach babes.  For a
lot of it, the paint is most of the  appearance.
As to scale you are in, when you buy HO stuff, they figure that you're not a
LGB customer.
And on and on we  go.  The grass  muct be a bit weak this week.

--
Bob May

rmay at nethere.com
http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
 
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