Operations: hidden staging

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Matt Brennan - 30 Oct 2003 15:20 GMT

Operations question(s):

Assume a layout design where ONE major train yard interacts with
hidden staging. Assume that this ONE train yard has individual tracks
on the yard ladder which are assigned to collect cars headed to the
hidden staging area.

I was wondering:

1) Do you simply set a specific QTY to each departure train? [i.e.
each time the 8th car arrives, that 8 car train is then sent to hidden
staging].

2) Would it ever make sense to collect specific road names for a
departure train? [i.e. each time the 8th ERIE car arrives, that 8 car
ERIE train is then sent to hidden staging].

3) Similar to scenario #2, would it ever make sense to collect
specific car types for a departure train? [i.e. each time the 8th
gondola car arrives, that 8 car gondola train is then sent to hidden
staging].

Given that scenarios #2 and #3 require many more ladder tracks since
you'd be collecting very defined consists whereas scenario #1
minimizes the ladder needs significantly, is this the determining
factor in the approach to consist building for trains destined for
hidden staging?

---------

Questions related to the "role" of the individual(s) in hidden
staging.

1) Do they have the ability to shuffle consists as they please to
create more complex work for the yardmaster once the consists are sent
back from hidden staging to the train yard?

2) Assuming a car arrives in hidden staging and its waybill is only on
cycle 1, 2, or 3 [meaning that cycle 4 occurs back on the layout], is
there anything preventing the individual(s) in hidden staging from
delaying the return of that train car vs using some traditional 3 or 4
bin car card system for routing?

Many Thanks!
Matt

P.S. E-mail replies are welcomed if you feel that the NG is not the
location to conduct this thread. I'd be most interested in reading
about your methods of operation including your use of hidden staging
[either in use or predicted use].

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Mike Yawn - 30 Oct 2003 17:03 GMT

I'm still in the early construction phase, so this is all theoretical
for me. Actual operation might - make that WILL - result in changes.

> Operations question(s):
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> each time the 8th car arrives, that 8 car train is then sent to hidden
> staging].

My staging yards represent 'points west' and 'points east' beyond the
modeled portion of the layout. So sending a particular car to staging
is controlled by the waybills, just like movement on the main layout.
If a train is destined for some point that isn't on the layout, it is
sent to the appropriate staging yard, where the waybill will be cycled
and result in the next move being to an on-layout location. (Most of
the time - I suppose if I have too many cars, shuffling directly from
one staging yard to the other would be a possibility, so a car is just
'on stage' for the transfer and is never spotted anywhere.

> 2) Would it ever make sense to collect specific road names for a
> departure train? [i.e. each time the 8th ERIE car arrives, that 8 car
> ERIE train is then sent to hidden staging].

The only place road names might come into account is for moving empties.
Empties should get sent back toward their home road, so can be routed
east or west as appropriate.

> 3) Similar to scenario #2, would it ever make sense to collect
> specific car types for a departure train? [i.e. each time the 8th
> gondola car arrives, that 8 car gondola train is then sent to hidden
> staging].

I might end up with some industries that aren't modeled, but assumed to
be in one direction or the other - so lumber might move east, and coal
west. Haven't really thought about that.

> Given that scenarios #2 and #3 require many more ladder tracks since
> you'd be collecting very defined consists whereas scenario #1
> minimizes the ladder needs significantly, is this the determining
> factor in the approach to consist building for trains destined for
> hidden staging?

I don't have a feel for this yet, I'll have to see how bad traffic piles
up and make adjustments accordingly.

> ---------
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> create more complex work for the yardmaster once the consists are sent
> back from hidden staging to the train yard?

I think the staging yard is one position that will frequently go
unmanned - in that case, I'll just cycle waybills between sessions, and
the same consist will come back during the next session. If there are
sufficient people for a session, then I might have a staging person
rearrange consists.

> 2) Assuming a car arrives in hidden staging and its waybill is only on
> cycle 1, 2, or 3 [meaning that cycle 4 occurs back on the layout], is
> there anything preventing the individual(s) in hidden staging from
> delaying the return of that train car vs using some traditional 3 or 4
> bin car card system for routing?

Eventually, once I've gotten the hang of car forwarding, there will be a
timetable that determines when trains pull out of staging. Of course,
the person working staging will probably have a lot of discretion as to
what cars are in the consist, so individual cars can be delayed as long
as the trains run on time :-).

> Many Thanks!
> Matt
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> about your methods of operation including your use of hidden staging
> [either in use or predicted use].

Mike

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Dale Gloer - 30 Oct 2003 18:33 GMT

I use Shipit to generate traffic. In Shipit I define specific trains
that run to staging. My staging contains (virtual) industries and
represents the rest of the world outside my modelled section. I have
defined the trains that run to staging with a maximum length. All the
trains in Shipit are defined with a departure time - note this does not
mean I use a clock, fast or otherwise - it just allows Shipit to
sequence activities. So my trains that run to staging run at a certain
time - read that as in a certain sequence with other trains - and carry
as many cars as are available at train time up to the maximum length.
If there are more, they go on the next train.

Since there are indusries defined in staging, I must have an operator
make up trains in staging. In my scheme this means between operating
sessions but depending on how you set up stagin and how accessible it
is, it could mean during a sesssion.

Dale Gloer

PS. Shipit is a software package available at
http://www.albionsoftware.com/

> Operations question(s):
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> about your methods of operation including your use of hidden staging
> [either in use or predicted use].

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Matt Brennan - 31 Oct 2003 19:23 GMT

> I have defined the trains that run to staging with a maximum length.

1) Might I ask what length you decided on and why that length?

2) Also, how many tracks to you have designated to trains headed for
hidden staging?

> note this does not mean I use a clock, fast or otherwise - it just
> allows Shipit to sequence activities.

I gather you must somehow announce a train's arrival from hidden
staging to those who are around the layout operating an area,
controlling a specific train, or switching the main yard that this
train is due to arrive into. How do you announce a train arrival from
hidden staging?

> I must have an operator make up trains in staging.

As an example, if you had a handful of "auto car carriers", would you
[could you] assemble that group as one train in hidden staging as if
they were collected in a yard from various points around the country
prior to arriving onto your layout?

This was one of the things I was trying to determine as a practical or
unrealistic approach. I was thinking that hidden staging could
conceivably represent a large holding yard only miles from your layout
where 'similar car types' were assembled to ride as one train onto and
through your layout. Another example would be a long train of coal
cars from various regions that were collected and assembled in hidden
staging.

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Bob May - 30 Oct 2003 22:34 GMT

Those are basic artificial choices you make.
Remember that you are basically sending a train out which just so happens to
go off of the layout (to the hidden yard) rather than across the layout.

--
Bob May
Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less.
Works evevery time it is tried!

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Model Forum / General / Railroads / October 2003

Operations: hidden staging