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Model Forum / General / Rockets / January 2004Another Attack on Rocketry
From: "Arnold Roquerre" To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" Subject: Frontier Rocketry re-organization plan Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:19:39 -0500 1. Frontier Rocketry Inc. yearly membership fee is $45 for individual and $65 for family. All individuals must be members of Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch any rocket on the field(s) under the corporation's control except A-E. 2. The Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. set all launch dates, determine if on a launch day if their will be a launch. There can be no launches without the direct authorization of the B.O.D. The Prefect and the NAR President must have verbal approval from at least one B.O.D. before Okaying a launch. 3. The onsite B.O.D. can scrub any launch, request a flyer to leave the field and close the field during the launch day. The onsite B.O.D. will remove anyone or club from the field found to be violating Tripoli or NAR safety rules. 4. There can be no launches until a member of the Frontier Rocketry Inc. Board of Directors is onsite. Violation of this rule will result in the immediate suspension for the year of the person or person(s) violating this rule. 5. The Frontier Rocketry Inc. website is under the direct control of the B.O.D. The Boston Tripoli Prefect and the NAR Frontier Rocketry President may make suggestions for changes for the B.O.D. to take under advisement. 6. Frontier Rocketry Inc. is the only agent to negotiate or contract with any owner or tenant for access to storage or any other item to be used in flying rockets. A- E or any members violating this rule will no longer be allowed to fly on the field permanently. 7. Only the Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. may contact the F.A.A. or the owners of land(s) the B.O.D. have contracted with for the purpose of launching rockets. Any club or member who violates this rule will be suspended from Frontier Rocketry Inc. and not allowed to fly on the field(s) contracted for by Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members vilating this rule will be permanently suspended from using the field 8. Both Tripoli Boston and NAR Frontier Rocketry have the permission of Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch rockets frmm the field(s) contracted for by Frontier Rocketry Inc. for the purpose of launching rockets. 9. Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the officers the national Tripoli organization requires which includes Prefect and Secretary at the beginning of the calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D.on the the first launch date. 10. Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the NAR members will vote for the officers the national NAR organization requires which includes President at the beginning of the calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D. on the first launch date. 11. The Boston Tripoli Officers and NAR Officers will be listed on the Frontier Rocketry Inc. website under the names of Board of Directors. 12. The Tripoli Prefect and Secretary and the NAR President will set dues for their respective sufficient to pay national club dues and to hold a reserve sufficient to cover the insurance deductibles provided under Tripoli or NAR insurance. Proof of the above will be submitted to the B.O.D. of Frontier Rocketry Inc. for approval before any launching by either club will be allowed by the B.O.D. 13. If not done in advance, before any launch commences, Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry will pay the onsite B.O.D. $150 to cover the cost of the field for the day's activity. 14. Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry are responsible for ensuring that: all Tripoli and NAR safety rules are followed; verifying all flyers level before issuing them flight cards; no igniters or litter are left on the field; all holes created by flyers or filled; all waivers required by the B.O.D. or signed by all flyers; and no one is on the field who does not belong. Failure to enforce the above can result in loss of flying privileges of the club allowing the violation(s). 15. There will be no Level III flights without the approval of at least two members of the B.O.D. which must be secured one week in advance. 16. Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they must hold a Level II to launch F K and a Level III to launch L M motors. The Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety rules. 17. Non members can not enter the F thru M flight area designated in the schematic below. 18. Non-members can access the low power pads for $5 payable to NAR Frontier Rocketry for the day. 19. All flyers will fill out an appropriate launch card. The Tripoli Prefect and the NAR President will be responsible for supplying, collecting and verifying the data recorded on the flight card. 20. All flight cards will be turned over to the onsite B.O.D. at the end of the launch day. Failure to turn over launch cards will result in the suspension of the club responsible for a period not less than one month. 21. All J M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. 22. After a J through M flight the recording altimeter will be brought to the B.O.D. for verification. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended from the field for a period to be determined by the B.O.D. 23. All flyers will bring their own launch equipment. Unless they have been told otherwise by either the Tripoli Prefect or the NAR President. 24. Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry may provide launch equipment, but they are responsible for set up and break down and bear all liability for any accidents incurred by any flyer using the equipment or member setting up or breaking down the equipment. 25. All launches will be the designated launch tables designated on the schematic below. All launch controllers must reach from the table to the rocket being launched. There are no exceptions. Anyone violating this rule will be permanently suspended. 26. A E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A E range and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area designated in the schematic below. 27. No activity such as selling food, onsite vendors, classes, etc. may be carried out without the direct approval of the B.O.D. 28. Parking, walking areas, launch stand location will be enforced by the Tripoli Prefect and NAR President as shown in the schematic below. 29. The B.O.D. or the Prefect with the approval of the B.O.D. or the NAR President with the approval of the B.O.D. may designate a spectator area for viewing F-M launches to be attended by non-members who mush all sign waivors rendering the owner, the B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. So they think they can keep an NAR member from asking permission from a land owner to fly at that location on a different day other than when they have a launch, even though they are covered under NAR? Wrong, and sounds like lawsuit waiting to happen, not to mention they didn't clarify use of public lands. -Boomer > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L - M motors. The > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > rules. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 21. > All J - M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an > electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at > apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > 26. > A - E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function > in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A - E range > and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area > designated in the schematic below. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. > So they think they can keep an NAR member from asking permission from a land > owner to fly at that location on a different day other than when they have a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Boomer Some of the rules make sense, some don't. Certainly are plenty of rules, though.  SignatureKurt Kesler Certainly are plenty of rules, though. <<< "Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball" http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tv/sat-night-live/commercials/section-1.html - George Gassaway > Certainly are plenty of rules, though. But what about rule #6? Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html Is that "No Pooftahs" ?? -- """Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply. > > Certainly are plenty of rules, though. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html > Is that "No Pooftahs" ?? Nope. THERE IS NO RULE #6. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html OK, So I was in the correct sketch, just got the rules mixed up. I'll have to pop in that DVD and study. Signature-Fred Shecter Auctions: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=shr eadvector To reply by e-mail, remove zorch two places. > > Is that "No Pooftahs" ?? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html > > Certainly are plenty of rules, though. > > But what about rule #6? I would suggest you don't independently attempt to negotiate storage with the field owner. SignatureKurt Kesler > > 16. > > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors > > and they must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L -> > M motors. The Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required > > under Tripoli Safety rules. This is just a joke, right? Level II certification to fly F, G, H, & I motors? Was this club formed by the BATFE? I hope the rocketeers in this area recreate the Boston Tea Party all over again and dump the Frontier Board of Directors into the harbor! David Marshall NAR 79812, Level 2 > > > 16. > > > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Was this club formed by the BATFE? Maybe it thinks it's doing some "proactive ass-kissing"... (though I doubt that the BATFE particularly cares about "the levels" at all!) -dave w } So they think they can keep an NAR member from asking permission from a land } owner to fly at that location on a different day other than when they have a } launch, even though they are covered under NAR? Wrong, and sounds like } lawsuit waiting to happen, not to mention they didn't clarify use of public } lands. They could if they contracted with the land owner for use during a specified time period, such as a year's lease to leave a storage shed there. Or they could contract with the land owner for exclusive use with no such structure, as long as the land owner agrees. But if the land owner doesn't sign a contract specifying that, the landowner can, of course, do anything they wish. Same with the FAA. No one can prevent a US citizen from having access to a government agency. But these are the club's rules, and they say that if you were to do so, they could kick you out, not that you couldn't do it. They've got the right to make any rules they want, no matter how ridiculous. Considering the comment regarding raising the price to keep the group from growing too much, I see these rules as much they same; they appear to want to chase people away. They seem to be doing a fairly good job in that respect. > 16. > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L - M motors. The > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > rules. That's a weird rule - I guess people who mainly want to fly F through I motors (and not build a J+ size rocket for level 2 certification) aren't welcome at their field. -dave w Who is this group? I gather they are in the Boston area. Any one have any insight into what's really going on here? I realize clubs require organizational rules, but this looks overboard. For comparison, here are NIRAs bylaws http://www.nira-rocketry.org/Bylaws.shtml and range rules http://www.nira-rocketry.org/RangeRules.shtml Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html > Any one have any insight into what's really going on here? > > I realize clubs require organizational rules, but this looks overboard. What he said. -dave w >Who is this group? I gather they are in the Boston area. Any one have any >insight into what's really going on here? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bob Kaplow This does seem kind of extreme. Our guidelines for SOLAR (South Louisiana Rocketry) are much simpler: (1) show up, (2) set pad up, (3) prep rocket, (4) launch rocket, and (5) repeat steps three and four! I guess that's why down here they call it the "big easy!" Joe A. SOLAR #8 > This does seem kind of extreme. Our guidelines for SOLAR (South Louisiana > Rocketry) are much simpler: (1) show up, (2) set pad up, (3) prep rocket, (4) > launch rocket, and (5) repeat steps three and four! I guess that's why down > here they call it the "big easy!" That's what NIRAs rules used to be too. Except no one ever bothered to write them down. With 6 people flying rockets, that's all we ever needed. As participation grew to as many as 100 people, you need a bit more organization to keep things safe and sane. Our current rules have evolved over the past decade or so. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html I have only one word for these rules, in general: "ANAL" A level 2 is required to launch F motors?? A member of the BOD is required to review the post flight data of an installed altimeter (item 22.) ?? However, good luck... Fred > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 160 lines] > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. Agreed 100% Fred. So if you reverse the rules, can you go get a Level 2 cert with an Aerotech Mustang on an F-50? Level 3 on an L? Where does a Level 1 cert fit in the scheme? I don't see a place for it. You ought to be able to fly a G-80 or G-64 on a level nothing cert. Suspended for not following rule #22? Sounds like it's really easy to get kicked out of that outfit. -- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1 > I have only one word for these rules, in general: "ANAL" A level 2 is required to > launch F motors?? A member of the BOD is required to review the post flight data of an [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > > must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L - M motors. The > > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > > rules. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > 21. > > All J - M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an > > electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at > > apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > 26. > > A - E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function > > in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A - E range > > and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area > > designated in the schematic below. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. > Agreed 100% Fred. So if you reverse the rules, can you go get a Level 2 > cert with an Aerotech Mustang on an F-50? Level 3 on an L? Where does a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Sounds like it's really easy to get kicked out of that outfit. Kelly must be on this BOD :-) Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html Not only do you need a level 2 cert to fly F motors, by these rules, you cannot make a certification flight of any sort. You can't make a level 1 certification flight because you must be level 2 to fly the required motor at "their" field. You can't make a level 2 certification flight because you must already be certified level 2 to fly a level 2 motor. No exception for certifications noted. Given the otherwise anal-retentive nature of the rules, this cannot be an oversight. Same for level 3. Even worse, membership in NAR or TRA is REQUIRED to fly A-E motors. No mention is made of fractional "A" motors so I assume they simply are not allowed at all. You MUST pay the $45/year extortion money to Frontier Rocketry before you can fly G-M motors on "their" field. Is there any other launch site in the country with this requirement? Sure there are launch fees, but required membership in the hosting club? Even if this field were next door, I would never fly on it under these rules. But based on another post, that seems to be what is wanted. Discourage large groups from showing up. Good work. This will not only keep large groups from showing up, but also any group. But this is a (mostly) free country and the BOD is free to shoot themselves in the foot if they want to. > I have only one word for these rules, in general: "ANAL" A level 2 is required to > launch F motors?? A member of the BOD is required to review the post flight data of an > installed altimeter (item 22.) ?? However, good luck... > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >>Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the officers the national Tripoli >>organization requires which includes Prefect and Secretary at the beginning of the >>calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D.on the the first launch date. >>10. >>Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the NAR members will vote for the >>officers the national NAR organization requires which includes President at the >>beginning of the calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D. on the first >>launch date. >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>All flyers will fill out an appropriate launch card. The Tripoli Prefect and the >>NAR President will be responsible for supplying, collecting and verifying the data >>recorded on the flight card. >> >>20. >>All flight cards will be turned over to the onsite B.O.D. at the end of the launch >>day. Failure to turn over launch cards will result in the suspension of the club >>responsible for a period not less than one month. >> >>21. >>All J – M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an >>electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at >>apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. >> >>22. >>After a J through M flight the recording altimeter will be brought to the B.O.D. >>for verification. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended from the field for a >>period to be determined by the B.O.D. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>24. >>Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry may provide launch equipment, but they are >>responsible for set up and break down and bear all liability for any accidents >>incurred by any flyer using the equipment or member setting up or breaking down the >>equipment. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >>27. No activity such as selling food, onsite vendors, classes, etc. may be carried >>out without the direct approval of the B.O.D. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>29. >>The B.O.D. or the Prefect with the approval of the B.O.D. or the NAR President with >>the approval of the B.O.D. may designate a spectator area for viewing F-M launches >>to be attended by non-members who mush all sign waivors rendering the owner, the >>B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may >>occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. SignatureDavid W. Schultz http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz > Even if this field were next door, I would never fly on it under these rules. > But based on another post, that seems to be what is wanted. Discourage large > groups from showing up. Good work. This will not only keep large groups from > showing up, but also any group. A lot of our clubs activity is outreach. At any given launch we'll have a handful of scouts, some TARC groups, and a bunch of folks who just heard about the club and want to fly. They are open to all. In fact, the forest preserve district whose land we use now funnel ALL of their rocket launch requests through us; they won't even let a group out there on their own. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html << You MUST pay the $45/year extortion money to Frontier Rocketry before you can fly G-M motors on "their" field. >> Seems like it would have been much simpler if they'd just made one rule: "This is a small private club and we want to keep it that way, so no new members or spectators will be allowed". << But this is a (mostly) free country and the BOD is free to shoot themselves in the foot if they want to.>> Just so no one gets confused, this is only a local club's BOD and has nothing to do with the national org. > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly > rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F – K What are they trying to prove with this? That we don't need the government to regulate rocketry out of existence, we can do it all by ourselves? This is absolutely *insane.* > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > family. All individuals must be members of Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch any > rocket on the field(s) under the corporation's control except A-E. Ouch! Especially considering that it says you're supposed to bring your own launch equipment further down.... > 2. > The Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. set all launch dates, > determine if on a launch day if their will be a launch. There can be no > launches without the direct authorization of the B.O.D. The Prefect and > the NAR President must have verbal approval from at least one B.O.D. > before Okaying a launch. The President and Prefect aren't part of the BoD????? Just exactly who IS on the BoD? > 9. > Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the officers the national Tripoli > organization requires which includes Prefect and Secretary at the beginning of the > calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D.on the the first launch date. But they can't vote for the BoD.... > 10. > Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the NAR members will vote for the > officers the national NAR organization requires which includes President at the > beginning of the calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D. on the first > launch date. But they can't vote for the BoD... > 12. > The Tripoli Prefect and Secretary and the NAR President will set dues [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > B.O.D. of Frontier Rocketry Inc. for approval before any launching by either club > will be allowed by the B.O.D. So that's ON TOP of the $45???? > 13. > If not done in advance, before any launch commences, Boston Tripoli and > NAR Frontier Rocketry will pay the onsite B.O.D. $150 to cover the cost > of the field for the day's activity. What the heck is the $45/year for???? > 16. > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F – K and a Level III to launch L – M motors. The > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > rules. L2 for F-I???? L3 for L???? > 17. > Non members can not enter the F thru M flight area designated in the schematic > below. So much for having a friend or family member help you carry out a larger project.... > 19. > All flyers will fill out an appropriate launch card. The Tripoli Prefect and the > NAR President will be responsible for supplying, collecting and verifying the data > recorded on the flight card. Hmmm... Launch card verification sounds like an RSO duty to me.... > 20. > All flight cards will be turned over to the onsite B.O.D. at the end of the launch > day. Failure to turn over launch cards will result in the suspension of the club > responsible for a period not less than one month. For failure to turn in FLIGHT CARDS???? > 22. > After a J through M flight the recording altimeter will be brought to the B.O.D. > for verification. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended from the field for a > period to be determined by the B.O.D. Holy cow.... > 23. > All flyers will bring their own launch equipment. Unless they have been told > otherwise by either the Tripoli Prefect or the NAR President. And the $45/yr plus local NAR/TRA dues is for what, exactly? > 26. > A – E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function > in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A – E range > and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area > designated in the schematic below. So, you're TRA L2 certified, huh? Sorry, but we don't have any NAR members present, so you're SOL on that C motor you and your son/daughter want to fly... ---------------------- Holy cow! I can understand some rules, but yeesh! There's strict, then there's anal, then there's just plain control freakish! I'm sure glad I don't live anywhere near there, where I might want to use THAT field! -Kevin Kevin T. wrote: << Holy cow! I can understand some rules, but yeesh! There's strict, then there's anal, then there's just plain control freakish! I'm sure glad I don't live anywhere near there, where I might want to use THAT field! >> Ditto! This is just plain bizarre. There was a follow up message to this one that might help clarify things: Re-organization overview As you know, the BOD has made an attempt to address the club concerns in this order: 1) Improve safety 2) reduce parking needs 3) free up BOD from field responsibilites 4) Turn over launch control to a NAR President (non-BOD member) & Tripoli Prefect (non-BOD member) To this end we have a plan proposed which will meet these ends. In summary, the plan separates the BOD from the launch activites, allowing member elected TRA and NAR representatives to run the launches. The TRA/NAR representatives must pay the $150 feild fee, collected from the members who show up at the beginning of the launch, in order to launch. The plan separates the low power (under G) and high power (G+) launch sites. It requires that members bring in their own launch equiment but we will still have one central launch table and LCO. Members may launch G+ impulse, non-mebers may not. Non-members may only approch the hi-power launch site to view from a safe viewing area. The membership fee are increased to $45 (Individual) and $65 (family). The principle reason for the increase is to keep the club from growing which will in turn improve safety and reduce parking issues. The BOD is aware that members have concerns and questions regarding the plan. To this end, the BOD would like to meet with the any prospective 2004 members instead of or after then next launch (Presently scheduled for this Sunday) and address the concerns and questions. The Plan is attached as a PDF file for your information. Suggestions of where to meet on Sunday are welcome. IMHO, it is critical to the club that we have this meeting and that the turnout is good. If the meeting happens, I will send out details via e-mial and hopefully we can post them on the web site too. Notice: This summary was not reviewed by Arnold or Olivier so there may be errors. > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 160 lines] > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. > There was a follow up message to this one that might help clarify things: > > The membership fee are increased to $45 (Individual) > and $65 (family). The principle reason for the > increase is to keep the club from growing which will > in turn improve safety and reduce parking issues. Intentionally trying to curb growth in the club, NAR, and TRA???????? So, if I were a member of that club, and wanted to get my L1, I'd be out of luck because a L2 is needed to launch F-K motors??????? Sounds like some one needs to step back and look at how counter productive their rules are. David NAR#79313 > ...I'd be out of luck because a L2 > is needed to launch F-K motors??????? Sounds like you're F-K'd ! > > ...I'd be out of luck because a L2 > > is needed to launch F-K motors??????? > > Sounds like you're F-K'd ! How about NAR and TRA solve their over sized ego problem and remove the clubx charter! Dennis How about not letting anyone fly rockets? That will increase safety and decrease parking. ;) Boy, I bet the Frontier members can't wait to vote in a new set of leaders! -Rich > The principle reason for the > increase is to keep the club from growing which will > in turn improve safety and reduce parking issues. > How about not letting anyone fly rockets? That will increase safety and > decrease parking. ;) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > increase is to keep the club from growing which will > > in turn improve safety and reduce parking issues. I'd guess your best chance of dying occurs during the trip to and from the launch site or from that bag of chips in the back seat. How many rocketeers have ever been killed by lightning? That seems like a potential occupational hazard, but I've never heard of one. Life itself means living with risk - its not a question of whether you will die, but how and when. Statistically, rocketry is already about as safe as it gets. <http://www.hcra.harvard.edu/risk.html> Brad Hitch > The membership fee are increased to $45 (Individual) > and $65 (family). The principle reason for the > increase is to keep the club from growing which will > in turn improve safety and reduce parking issues. These rules will certainly solve your growth problems without needing a dues increase. > Notice: This summary was not reviewed by Arnold or > Olivier so there may be errors. You mean the last one was reviewed by these two and thus was error free? ROTFLMAO! Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html What is the reason for these draconian rules? Seems we don't need the ATFE to give us grief; some of us do it well enough all by ourselves. Larry Lobdell, Jr. > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 160 lines] > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. >16. >Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they >must hold a Level II to launch F – K and a Level III to launch L – M motors. The >Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety >rules. If you need to be L2 to fly an F - K (and therefore H & I) then how in the world do you ever cert L1? ;-) This has to be a wind-up. SignatureDarren J Longhorn http://www.geocities.com/darrenlonghorn/ NSRG #005 http://www.northstarrocketry.org.uk/ UKRA #1094 L2 RSO http://www.ukra.org.uk/ WOW I wonder if the TALIBAN Rocketry society has this many rules..... Looks like they might have gotten a bit carried away trying to address some issues in the past..... L2 for F motors and UP..... I hope thats a TYPO..... So if you fly there you get to go from E to J before you can fly an F????? I don't think they mean it...... L1 fits where????? Lighten up guys... aren't the ATF rules enough for you????? Sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings.. but jeezz its supposed to be fun........suggest RULE #1 HAVE FUN SAFELY PS if your writing the rules to address the behavior of a few individuals , spare yourself the grief... if they aren't conducting themselves properly now more rules will just make it worse because they will use them against you and the GOOD fliers you have. Just my thoughts...... Bobby B > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L - M motors. The > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > rules. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 21. > All J - M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an > electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at > apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > 26. > A - E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function > in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A - E range > and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area > designated in the schematic below. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. snip I don't think the header is exactly accurate. It seems more like they simply want to keep it exclusive. Why would anyone want to fly there? Let them have their rules and privacy and just fly some place else. They probably won't last too long in a closed society. Randy Never mind the document - Find out who *wrote* this draconian piece of control-freak nonsense, then - Stay far, far, far away from that individual, so you can enjoy rocketry. A decent set of by-laws is necessary for any organization to function well. But when it/they try to tell you how to eat, sleep, walk, talk, shoot and sh.t, leave it the hell alone. > Never mind the document - > > Find out who *wrote* this draconian piece of control-freak nonsense, then - Judging by the headers presented, it appears to have been r.m.r's own Arnold R... -dave w > Stay far, far, far away from that individual, so you can enjoy rocketry. > > A decent set of by-laws is necessary for any organization to function well. > But when it/they try to tell you how to eat, sleep, walk, talk, shoot and sh.t, > leave it the hell alone. Sieg Heil! Jawohl Mein Furhers, ve vill all be good little Nazi's and obey your every Fascist command. Talk about a supreme power trip! Get a brain, a life, and a rebate on your lobotomy. -- Dale Martin NAR 80678 L2 N0JFM > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L - M motors. The > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > rules. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 21. > All J - M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an > electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at > apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > 26. > A - E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function > in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A - E range > and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area > designated in the schematic below. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. >>posted the email way way below. Looks to me like it just might be an attempt to show how far overboard things can be made if rocketeers want to hand wring and nash teeth. I looked at their website and it seems some fun launches took place this year. Maybe people had fun and some in the club wanted to make sure that didn't happen again and complained to the BOD. So the BOD made the rules below ? All pure guess, but I also know the rocket fun police is out there. Art P.S. in Great Planes "real flight" R/C simulator for the PC, the virtual "Hecklers" talking behind you will say: "Watch out, here come the fun police!" if you get real wild in your flying. > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L - M motors. The > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > rules. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 21. > All J - M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an > electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at > apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > 26. > A - E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function > in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A - E range > and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area > designated in the schematic below. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > Frontier Rocketry Inc. yearly membership fee is $45 for individual and $65 for > family. All individuals must be members of Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch any > rocket on the field(s) under the corporation's control except A-E. So you gotta pay $45 a year to fly quarter As? > The Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. set all launch dates, > determine if on a launch day if their will be a launch. There can be no > launches without the direct authorization of the B.O.D. The Prefect and > the NAR President must have verbal approval from at least one B.O.D. > before Okaying a launch. Now Bunny needs your approval to do something? Get real! > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors > and they must hold a Level II to launch F – K and a Level III to launch L > – M motors. The Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required > under Tripoli Safety rules. This eliminates *ANY* NAR or TRA certifications flights from occuring at these launches. Clever? > All flyers will fill out an appropriate launch card. The Tripoli Prefect > and the NAR President will be responsible for supplying, collecting and > verifying the data recorded on the flight card. Again, Bunny is going to do what at your launches? > All flyers will bring their own launch equipment. Unless they have been > told otherwise by either the Tripoli Prefect or the NAR President. Again, what's Bunny got to do with these stupid rules. > A – E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will > function in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at NAR safety code has no such requirement for an RSO. In fact it's written to cover ONE PERSON launching rockets by THEMSELF. > Parking, walking areas, launch stand location will be enforced by the Tripoli Prefect and NAR President as shown in the schematic below. You expect Bunny to be at all your launches? Perhaps you should invest in a grammar checker. I'm sure it would show a serious rectal cranial inversion. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html > > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > > Frontier Rocketry Inc. yearly membership fee is $45 for individual and $65 for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Now Bunny needs your approval to do something? Get real! I think "NAR President" means, here, the president of the local NAR section (i.e, the TRA Prefect's "opposite number"). Admittedly, I found the wording confusing at first. -dave w > I think "NAR President" means, here, the president of the > local NAR section (i.e, the TRA Prefect's "opposite number"). Well, yes, I realized that too. > Admittedly, I found the wording confusing at first. The whole thing is written by someone at about my daughter's 4th grade level. Actually my daughter usually does better than this document. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html Allright...I'll put on my Pratt Nomex Shorts here...I don't think most of these rules are unreasonable. How many rmr's who've trashed these regulations have actually secured a field and run large launches in the northeastern US? Let me tell you, it isn't easy, can be thankless, and unless you write out rules and then enforce them, people do lots of dumbass things that YOU are responsible for. This document spells out who is responsible for what goes on at the launch and makes it clear and unambiguous. The problem is people who should be responsible in their actions are often not. The catch is, the BOD's individual names are on the sheet somewhere on the contract with the landowner. That means if Joe Shmo's kid runs out to the pads and gets hurt, the BOD's home and life savings will be there for somebody's lawyer to go after. The people who run organized launches are taking a not insignificant financial risk for your benefit. This group just seems to actually have the balls to spell it out so they are somewhat protected if people misbehave. No problem there. Regarding not using the field or calling the landowner, it looks to me like the BOD of this organization did the near impossible task of finding a large flying field and negotiated with it's owner. I've done the same thing twice (for what are presently two of the only 4 or 5 fields in the state that can be used by clubs). Getting and keeping a field takes a ton of ongoing time, phone calling, legwork, networking, and big-time butt-kissing (for years on end) to keep it rocket friendly. I don't want anyone trying to "take" my find or jeopardising all my hard work. If someone else annoys the landowner or goes flying there and screws up, I'm going to lose my field. So the line about not flying there other than with the club is right on. As for $45 membership...give me a break, thats four bucks a month. It's all going into the club kitty and will likely serve the membership somehow (If you're going to say they are trying to get rich or pocket your dough, then there is no basis for any kind of discussion here). Launches cost money to run...usually couple hundred to landowner and few hundred for portajohns ($100+ apiece, plus newspaper and reading material for each one). PA systems run in the hundreds for large size. Try to find a better deal somewhere else. The only rule I question is level II for F to G. Perhaps the tone of the rules bothers the fairly right wing, "Live Free or Die" value system of many who participate in our hobby, but none of the rules, excepting the above rule on level II, will interfere with one's ability to go out there and have a good time. All they do is spell out exactly who is responsible for what. I think whoever did them is actually doing rocketry in the Boston area a service. The northeast isn't the south or the southwest...people are more likely to sue and less tolerant of things. A strict set of rules like this is typical of everything in this part of the country. Little league coaches have to take multi-hour risk management courses before they can coach. Parents sue if their kids don't make the basketball team around here...and they do so regularly. So there...flame away...just know that I am not a lawyer, actually cant stand them or our lawsuit happy culture...but these are the times we live in. We all just have to deal with it. Art T South Jersey Area Rocketry Society NAR# 34201 L1 "Launches cost money to run...usually couple hundred to landowner and few hundred for portajohns ($100+ apiece, plus newspaper and reading material for each one). PA systems run in the hundreds for large size. Try to find a better deal somewhere else." Ya know, I'e been down there several times, you know what they have, ZILCH, NADA, yopu need to go to the john, its a LONG walk to the woods. I saw a card table THATS ALL, you have to bring your OWN launch pad, launch controller AND pay a fee to fly, find a better deal, I did, our club has over a dozen pads ( Low to mid ) and 3 HPR pads. Membership is a HELL of a lot cheaper and guess what, NO LAUNCH FEE My 2 cents Joel NAR 77267 TRA 09848 L2 Oh ya they let ANYBODY fly too, member or not, ANY SIZE MOTOR >>I saw acard table THATS ALL Did you stay to the left or right of that card table ? > "Launches cost money to > run...usually couple hundred to landowner and few hundred for portajohns [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Oh ya they let ANYBODY fly too, member or not, ANY SIZE MOTOR LOL Thats funny. Now you need to go and actually read the first post. RDH8 > Allright...I'll put on my Pratt Nomex Shorts here...I don't think most of > these rules are unreasonable. How many rmr's who've trashed these regulations [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > South Jersey Area Rocketry Society > NAR# 34201 L1 <...snipped for brevity...> If you actually GOT anything for that $45, I might agree with some of that. But, for $45, you get to bring your own launch pads. And NAR & TRA sub-clubs have to be formed, and have their OWN dues. So it's really likely more than $45. On top of it all, if you read it, you'll find that the $45 doesn't go to paying the landowner for use of the land. Nope, the fliers who show up each day have to collect $150 amongst themselves to cover that. Now, if Frontier Rocketry were paying the landowner with that $45, or were buying/maintaining launch equipment, I might go along with some of it. But Frontier takes $45/month and really gives you nothing in return. Well, no, that's not exactly true. For your $45/yr, you get a lot of overly-stringent rules that are likely to totally and completely stifle the hobby in that area. -Kevin > <...snipped for brevity...> > > If you actually GOT anything for that $45, I might agree with some of that. You get a dictator for life! For only $45, what a bargin! -JT << You get a dictator for life! For only $45, what a bargin! >> You can get that for free at ARSA. ;) ><< You get a dictator for life! For only $45, what a bargin! >> >You can get that for free at ARSA. ;) Beats paying for the 'priviledge' with NAR. ;-) On a different topic, Ray... I found a digital camera that ought to work as a replacement for one of my 35mm cameras. With a 32-Mb SD-memory card installed, it'll record two minutes of video of the flight. The only inconvenience is that I have to hook in a 'keep-awake' circuit to defeat the automatic power-off features. After ten minutes of inactivity, the camera shuts itself down completely... not good if it's waiting on the pad for longer than that. Besides that... the darn SMT switches are a real *pain* to solder to... :-) << On a different topic, Ray... I found a digital camera that ought to work as a replacement for one of my 35mm cameras. With a 32-Mb SD-memory card installed, it'll record two minutes of video of the flight. >> Cool. How's the image resolution? << The only inconvenience is that I have to hook in a 'keep-awake' circuit to defeat the automatic power-off features. After ten minutes of inactivity, the camera shuts itself down completely... not good if it's waiting on the pad for longer than that. >> Ugh, that is a pain alright. ><< On a different topic, Ray... I found a digital camera that ought to work as >Cool. How's the image resolution? The manual says that in 'Movie Mode' the image is 320X240 pixels. That would make it about quarter-screen sized on a modern monitor. In 'Picture Mode' the resolution can be up to 1600X1200 pixels, but it requires about five seconds' of processing time between shots. >defeat the automatic power-off features. After ten minutes of inactivity, the >camera shuts itself down completely... not good if it's waiting on the pad for >Ugh, that is a pain alright. Problem is - most digital cameras I've been able to find have this feature. I was going to use a Kodak EasyShare camera, but the power-down feature couldn't be disabled or defeated, plus it would only record thirty seconds' worth of video... no matter HOW much extra memory was added. :-( Since when has ARSA imposed rules on you or any of its members? Never.... Nice cheap shot. -Boomer > << You get a dictator for life! For only $45, what a bargin! >> > > You can get that for free at ARSA. ;) > Since when has ARSA imposed rules on you or any of its members? Never.... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > You can get that for free at ARSA. ;) Cheap shots are his specialty. When I was proven right (against my wishes) in the next thread over, he posted a rant how the fact I was proven right (according to Firth, Izzy, and Shockie) was not an example of being proven right, but further proof I am "always" wrong. Huh? R Dunakin's mental capacities are on vacation. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv << Since when has ARSA imposed rules on you or any of its members? Never.... ARSA has no rules whatsoever?? Once again Ray, ya missed the point. ARSA has done nothing to you, so stop with the cheap shots and show a little tact. -Boomer > << Since when has ARSA imposed rules on you or any of its members? Never.... > > ARSA has no rules whatsoever?? I tried to sum up how MARS Club www.mars-rocketry.com compares to Frontier rocketry. please read our commetns below, these are to the best of my knowledge and can be denied at any time. > From: "Arnold Roquerre" > To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > family. All individuals must be members of Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch any > rocket on the field(s) under the corporation's control except A-E. Mars Club. $10 per person or $15 for family. No need for membership to fly at our launches. > 2. > The Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. set all launch dates, > determine if on a launch day if their will be a launch. There can be no > launches without the direct authorization of the B.O.D. The Prefect and > the NAR President must have verbal approval from at least one B.O.D. > before Okaying a launch. Mars Club. ask if you wanna launch and we'll usualy accomodate you. this weekend we plan on launching out in the middle of a lake, temps expected to be in the teens-20s. president will attend and bring any launch equipment you need that the club has available at no extra cost. > 3. > The onsite B.O.D. can scrub any launch, request a flyer to leave the > field and close the field during the launch day. The onsite B.O.D. will > remove anyone or club from the field found to be violating Tripoli or > NAR safety rules. Mars Club. RSO has Final say on launch field, even over president of club. President has been denied launching rockets in violation of not only NAR safety rules, but rules of common sense. If a rocket is found Violating NAR safety regs, the president will do his best to help repair rocket, correct problem, or show rocketeer the error of his ways. > 4. > There can be no launches until a member of the Frontier Rocketry Inc. > Board of Directors is onsite. Violation of this rule will result in the > immediate suspension for the year of the person or person(s) violating > this rule. Mars Club. Launches can be held without the presidents knowledge (and probably has). If equipment is wanted but not the presence of the president, asking for use of club launch equipment is encouraged. > 5. > The Frontier Rocketry Inc. website is under the direct control of the > B.O.D. The Boston Tripoli Prefect and the NAR Frontier Rocketry > President may make suggestions for changes for the B.O.D. to take under > advisement. Mars Club. Control? the webmaster is in control. President is financialy responsible for all hosting fees, registration, and care and feeding of webmaster (well almost) > 6. > Frontier Rocketry Inc. is the only agent to negotiate or contract with > any owner or tenant for access to storage or any other item to be used > in flying rockets. A- E or any members violating this rule will no longer be > allowed to fly on the field permanently. Mars Club. President is reponsible for all begging and pleading with owners and tennants for anything any club member wants, not matter how small or insignificant. > 7. > Only the Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. may contact the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the field(s) contracted for by Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members vilating this rule > will be permanently suspended from using the field Marss club. President welcomes someone to take on the job of calling in notification and waivers, but since everyone wants them but no one wants to call, the president MUST call them in. Memebers wanting to call for such may be offerd full membership and possible seat of vice president. > 8. > Both Tripoli Boston and NAR Frontier Rocketry have the permission of > Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch rockets frmm the field(s) contracted > for by Frontier Rocketry Inc. for the purpose of launching rockets. Mars club. If we get permission to fly on a field. tell your freinds, tell your enemies, tell everyone! we welcome the chance to have people launch with us and see us strut our stuff. > 9. > Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the officers the national Tripoli > organization requires which includes Prefect and Secretary at the beginning of the > calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D.on the the first launch date. Mars club. voting optional. ballot stuffing and other cheating preferred. AS LONG AS THEY DONT VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!!!!! > 10. > Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the NAR members will vote for the > officers the national NAR organization requires which includes President at the > beginning of the calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D. on the first > launch date. Mars club. Rsults of voting will be lost, found, hidden, buried, dug up, denied, forged and other such atrocities. if you actually wanna know who won, show up at the meeting when we vote. Absentees will be automaticaly nominated for president and listed first on the ballots. > 11. > The Boston Tripoli Officers and NAR Officers will be listed on the > Frontier Rocketry Inc. website under the names of Board of Directors. Mars Club.The website will get updates when the webmaster sees fit. Bribes of food and drink are prefered ways to expedite changes > 12. > The Tripoli Prefect and Secretary and the NAR President will set dues [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > B.O.D. of Frontier Rocketry Inc. for approval before any launching by either club > will be allowed by the B.O.D. Mars Club. Dues will stay what they are, as there are plenty of other rocket clubs they could go to. all attemps will be made to keep national affiliations and insurance, but this may be caused by imposed discussions on fundraising instead of building rockets and watching rocket videos at meetings > 13. > If not done in advance, before any launch commences, Boston Tripoli and > NAR Frontier Rocketry will pay the onsite B.O.D. $150 to cover the cost > of the field for the day's activity. Mars Club. we do our best to keep costs down. this means we fly wherever we can get for free. you pay for your own food at the after-launch eats if suggested. If any BOD member gets $150 the president will beat it out of him and use the proceeds to buy kits for free give aways to members. > 14. > Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry are responsible for ensuring [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > field who does not belong. Failure to enforce the above can result in > loss of flying privileges of the club allowing the violation(s). Mars Club. we do our best to stay in the rules (ahem)Flight cards are nice, but if you just tell us your name and kit and engine we'll gladly put it in the log. spectators are invited to push the button. Violations will be reviewed, posible threats will be made and all will be forgotten unless intentional repeats are made. Further Violations will result in placement into position of president. > 15. > There will be no Level III flights without the approval of at least two > members of the B.O.D. which must be secured one week in advance. Mars club. we have at least 3 members with will be over to your house in a half hour to help you prep, transport, and fly your HPR rocket. Please pardon the drool. > 16. > Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they > must hold a Level II to launch F - K and a Level III to launch L - M motors. The > Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety > rules. Mars Club. for small stuff RSO your own stuff. New members way request assistance of the President. Safety Rules will be discussed during launches. > 17. > Non members can not enter the F thru M flight area designated in the schematic > below. Mars Club. Non Members can touch every part of F thru M rockets at any time. they may also ask to push the button, the the own of the rocket has first chance. > 18. > Non-members can access the low power pads for $5 payable to NAR Frontier Rocketry > for the day. Mars Club. Non Members can borrow rockets anf fly any engine the bring or purchase. We do nto require the members to pay non-members for this priveledge. > 19. > All flyers will fill out an appropriate launch card. The Tripoli Prefect and the > NAR President will be responsible for supplying, collecting and verifying the data > recorded on the flight card. Mars club. Bring rocket, Fly. repeat. Feel free to Lie about what rocket it was, what engines, and who you are. If you want, you can write your flight into our log. maybe we'll do a flight report. > 20. > All flight cards will be turned over to the onsite B.O.D. at the end of the launch > day. Failure to turn over launch cards will result in the suspension of the club > responsible for a period not less than one month. Mars Club. If someone wants to brag about what they flew and how they flew it, we'll gladly listen. no one is forced to report what they did. there are plenty of flights that I wish I could not have reported, ever. > 21. > All J - M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an > electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at > apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection. Mars Club. anyone with a certfied flight has to buy the rest of the attending club members Dinner. This rule only applies to the president. Anyone who want to do dual deploy can do so but must supply their own equipment. > 22. > After a J through M flight the recording altimeter will be brought to the B.O.D. > for verification. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended from the field for a > period to be determined by the B.O.D. Mars Club. We assume that since you spent hundreds of dollars on rocket, chutes, engines and such, that you have will want to show everyone the results from any onboard toy you put in there. Please do not be disapointed if some members are to busy to drop everything and watch (but I bet most will) > 23. > All flyers will bring their own launch equipment. Unless they have been told > otherwise by either the Tripoli Prefect or the NAR President. Mars Club. Keep your launch equipment clean! the president will gladly haul all of the launch gear even if you only need to fly an Estes Gnome > 24. > Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry may provide launch equipment, but they are > responsible for set up and break down and bear all liability for any accidents > incurred by any flyer using the equipment or member setting up or breaking down the > equipment. Mars club. anyone can play with the launch gear. we got it because as a club we can afford to buy things that a single member could not justify. in fact the president would love to have an extra helping hand, regardless if it is a member or not > 25. > All launches will be the designated launch tables designated on the schematic > below. All launch controllers must reach from the table to the rocket being > launched. There are no exceptions. Anyone violating this rule will be permanently > suspended. Mars club. If someon reminds the president, he might bring the table. feel free to help him and set it up where ever. controllers do not need to be on the table. table can be used for prep of rockets. or for the range store. or for shade. warning. table is not strong enough to lean or sit on. Anyone who wishes to doate another table will get a full years membership > 26. > A - E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function > in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A - E range > and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area > designated in the schematic below. Mars club. If your rocket is ready, go fly it! > 27. No activity such as selling food, onsite vendors, classes, etc. may be carried > out without the direct approval of the B.O.D. Mars Club. anyone who wants to sell anything can show up and start by going to the president. He is a sucker for justabout any club thing and is an easy sell. > 28. > Parking, walking areas, launch stand location will be enforced by the Tripoli > Prefect and NAR President as shown in the schematic below. Mars Club. If there is a patch of ice we want to launch on, the presidents vehicle goes first. If it holds, others may bring their vehicles, or demand a ride from the president if travel is too inconvienent > 29. > The B.O.D. or the Prefect with the approval of the B.O.D. or the NAR President with > the approval of the B.O.D. may designate a spectator area for viewing F-M launches > to be attended by non-members who mush all sign waivors rendering the owner, the > B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may > occur while the spectator(s) are on the field. Mars Club. We are here to have fun. we don't mind that you watch, here, take the presidents seat and rest. Enjoy the launch. SignatureTater President of MARS Club (NAR #660) www.mars-rocketry.com KC9ESF NAR #79654 L1 AMA #747769 EAA #703312 remove spam spelled backwards to reply >I tried to sum up how MARS Club www.mars-rocketry.com compares to Frontier >rocketry. please read our commetns below, these are to the best of my >knowledge and can be denied at any time. > > ROTFLMAO!!! David Erbas-White > I tried to sum up how MARS Club www.mars-rocketry.com compares to Frontier > rocketry. please read our commetns below, these are to the best of my > knowledge and can be denied at any time. < much good stuff snipped, but I encourage you to look back on the thread and read it if you haven't, because it's that good! > > Mars Club. We are here to have fun. we don't mind that you watch, here, take > the presidents seat and rest. Enjoy the launch. absolutely wonderful!!! if the national orgs treated the hobby with this level of tongue-in-cheek, we would have 50,000 irreverant people having a blast flying rockets. And just as many wondering how they could get in on the fun! I nominate tater to be the Most High Exalted Ruler of Rocketry! - iz :)) > > I tried to sum up how MARS Club www.mars-rocketry.com compares to Frontier > > rocketry. please read our commetns below, these are to the best of my [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - iz :)) Are you sure you wanna do that? Look how much he was griping about being president! (Although I suppose that means he's a good one - you wouldn't trust someone who actually was eagerly after the job, now would you?) -dave w >> I nominate tater to be the Most High Exalted Ruler of Rocketry! Naah, that's Shread Vector! > Are you sure you wanna do that? Look how much he was griping > about being president! (Although I suppose that means he's a > good one - you wouldn't trust someone who actually was eagerly > after the job, now would you?) Probably the same way most of us get elected: no one else volunteers, and you weren't there to turn it down. Either that or someone complained, and was handed the job. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html > I nominate tater to be the Most High Exalted Ruler of Rocketry! > > - iz :)) Can't let you do that; it would displace Jerry..(-;) Fred wait..are you saying I'm supposed to have fun within some common sense guidelines? blasphemy. > I tried to sum up how MARS Club www.mars-rocketry.com compares to Frontier > rocketry. please read our commetns below, these are to the best of my [quoted text clipped - 330 lines] > Mars Club. We are here to have fun. we don't mind that you watch, here, take > the presidents seat and rest. Enjoy the launch. > I tried to sum up how MARS Club www.mars-rocketry.com compares to Frontier > rocketry. please read our commetns below, these are to the best of my > knowledge and can be denied at any time. <big snip> Replace MARS with NIRA and you're not very far off. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html There is no attack on rocketry. Frontier Rocketry has managed after over 6 |
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