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Model Forum / General / Rockets / January 2004I've purchased my last issue of "Extreme Rocketry"
I have been a loyal reader of "Extreme Rocketry" magazine for a couple of years. I did not say "subscriber" since I have chosen to support the periodical by purchasing it through my locally owned and independently operated hobby shop. I understand some of the challenges of producing a high quality magazine and I don't mind looking for ways to cut costs like using more black and white photographs. But the content is suffering as well and if Mr. McNeely complains one more time about his expenses I will scream! If advertisers are not paying their bills on time -- shame on them and don't accept their advertising anymore. I applaud Mr. McNeely for his effort to promote the hobby and I support the small businessman whenever I can. But, I have had enough whining... Maybe it is time Mr. McNeely to "cut bait". I haven't seen the latest issue....but my thoughts of ER since it's beginning is "Pretty magazine, but not much useful content." But, since the 'pretty' factor has been reduced, I thought the content has increased in the past few issues. I was thinking about subscribing again. Maybe I'll wait to get the next issue? -Rich > I have been a loyal reader of "Extreme Rocketry" magazine for a couple of > years. I did not say "subscriber" since I have chosen to support the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Maybe it is time Mr. McNeely to "cut bait". I dropped my subscription a year ago. The content level was dropping and when I missed an issue because they didn't send me the renewal notice in time all I got was a "gee, we're sorry". That happened with my NAR membership once and I received the missing issue after calling HQ. Low content, poor service, no thanks. I get as much if not more content through the Internet. > I haven't seen the latest issue....but my thoughts of ER since it's > beginning is "Pretty magazine, but not much useful content." But, since [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> Maybe it is time Mr. McNeely to "cut bait".  SignatureAlex Mericas << I dropped my subscription a year ago. The content level was dropping >> I think the content's improved quite a bit, especially over the past year or so. A leason about customer service. Give me good service and I'll keep coming back, even if your prices are not the lowest. Give me bad service and I'll go somewhere else, perhaps never coming back. > << I dropped my subscription a year ago. The content level was dropping >> > > I think the content's improved quite a bit, especially over the past year or > so. SignatureAlex Mericas > << I dropped my subscription a year ago. The content level was dropping > > I think the content's improved quite a bit, especially over the past year or > so. A single page technical article of an existing website is a stretch, not improvement. That exact same thing happened to me. :( -Rich > I missed an issue because they didn't send me the renewal notice in time all I > got was a "gee, we're sorry". I dropped my subscription several issues back. I can view the tech articles at their respective websites. I saw the latest issue at Hobby Bench and glanced at the Aft Closure. What a whiner. Dropped it back in the rack. > I have been a loyal reader of "Extreme Rocketry" magazine for a couple of > years. I did not say "subscriber" since I have chosen to support the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Maybe it is time Mr. McNeely to "cut bait". > I saw the latest issue at Hobby Bench and > glanced at the Aft Closure. What a whiner. Dropped it back in the rack. If they renmmamed it "horse's a.s" would you drop it slower? :) Extreme rocketry has never interviewed me, accepted ads from me, accepted articles I have sent or in any way acknowledged the simple fact I pioneered HPR and continue to fly "Extreme Rockets" which would really look good in that rag. Maybe for their don't let the door hit your a.s on the way out (final) issue. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv Not everyone thinks you walk on water. -- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1 http://home.alltel.net/jm44316/ > > I saw the latest issue at Hobby Bench and > > glanced at the Aft Closure. What a whiner. Dropped it back in the rack. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com > My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv > Not everyone thinks you walk on water. Good. Because they would be right. Literally and figuratively. > > > I saw the latest issue at Hobby Bench and > > > glanced at the Aft Closure. What a whiner. Dropped it back in the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Maybe for their don't let the door hit your a.s on the way out (final) > > issue. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv > > Not everyone thinks you walk on water. > > Good. Because they would be right. > > Literally and figuratively. What size motor did you use for the "literally" part? -dave w > Not everyone thinks you walk on water. Did last sunday. launched a maxi alpha on a F21 too. didn't even get wet. in fact it parrallel parked. Although the Fat boy did't survive. who knew water would shatter PNC-80? (P.S. the clay cap never popped, MESS time) Was the Fat Boy flown using a D12 from the infamous year "A" or "B" (with the randomly distributed missing or minute ejection charges that could not pop the caps)?? -Fred Shecter NAR 20117 -- """Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply. > > Not everyone thinks you walk on water. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Although the Fat boy did't survive. who knew water would shatter PNC-80? > (P.S. the clay cap never popped, MESS time) C6-3 (was built stock) have not filled out mess. was from bulk pack. Next one will be built for a microhybrid and MAD ejection. SignatureTater President of MARS Club (NAR #660) www.mars-rocketry.com KC9ESF NAR #79654 L1 AMA #747769 EAA #703312 remove spam spelled backwards to reply > Was the Fat Boy flown using a D12 from the infamous year "A" or "B" (with the randomly > distributed missing or minute ejection charges that could not pop the caps)?? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Although the Fat boy did't survive. who knew water would shatter PNC-80? > > (P.S. the clay cap never popped, MESS time) > I saw the latest issue at Hobby Bench and > glanced at the Aft Closure. What a whiner. Dropped it back in the rack. What issue was that? I have the Jan-Feb issue and the Aft closure in that one was more than just whinning. It was pointing out stuff that some people just cant understand. They are incapable of such thoughts. I hope it was not this one. RDH8 > > I saw the latest issue at Hobby Bench and > > glanced at the Aft Closure. What a whiner. Dropped it back in the rack. > > What issue was that? Don't know, the web site shows the current issue as October! Interview was with that dude smoking while installing motors on the TV show. > I have the Jan-Feb issue and the Aft closure in that one was more than just > whinning. > It was pointing out stuff that some people just cant understand. > They are incapable of such thoughts. > I hope it was not this one. All I remember was some holier than thou crap about a 17 year old not being able to touch a rocket motor or install an igniter. > RDH8 << All I remember was some holier than thou crap about a 17 year old not being able to touch a rocket motor or install an igniter. >> Maybe Brent should ditch the whole "guest editorial" thing. Everytime some thin-skinned reader sees an editorial they don't like, say they aren't going to buy the mag anymore. > << All I remember was some holier than thou crap about a 17 year old not being > able to touch a rocket motor or install an igniter. >> > > Maybe Brent should ditch the whole "guest editorial" thing. Everytime some > thin-skinned reader sees an editorial they don't like, say they aren't going to > buy the mag anymore. Maybe he should just stick to the pretty color photos of rockets thing and let a real magazine publish extreme rocketry information. ><< All I remember was some holier than thou crap about a 17 year old not being >able to touch a rocket motor or install an igniter. >> >Maybe Brent should ditch the whole "guest editorial" thing. Everytime some >thin-skinned reader sees an editorial they don't like, say they aren't going to >buy the mag anymore. The same as newspapers should drop editorial sections. In towns with two major newspapers, you wouldn't believe how many people refuse to buy one paper or the other simply because the editorial section is either liberal or conservative. The rest of the paper might be twice as good as the other paper, but people refuse to buy it because of the editorial section, which is either one or two pages out of 50 or more pages in a daily paper. Brian Elfert > The rest of the paper might be twice as good as the other paper, but > people refuse to buy it because of the editorial section, which is either > one or two pages out of 50 or more pages in a daily paper. And the newspaper makes a "business decision" that the moral issue exceeds the commercial one. Time after time. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv > Maybe Brent should ditch the whole "guest editorial" thing. Everytime some > thin-skinned reader sees an editorial they don't like, say they aren't going to > buy the mag anymore. It's not just the "guest editorial thing", but the entire editor's comments" in the current Jan-Feb '04 issue. "Financially Challenged", "Financing This Year", "Advertisers Unable to Pay", "Red Arrow Hobbies" and "Cutting Costs". Would you like more cheese with that whine? Enough already! You tried, it is not working, it is time to go do something else with your life... Regarding Extreme Rocketry: I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on ER and should feel free to express it. It is too bad though that while the editor is labelled as a whiner and so on, this is not also being seen as a sad indication for the hobby. Personally, I still like ER and will continue to support it by buying it at my local hobby shop. I also bought some back issues and the LDRS dvd recently and got good service, and a good product. I think that the (suggested) loss of any publication that is supportive of the hobby is a shame. A few years ago, my girlfriend and I were in a hobby shop and she showed me the rocket magazines. I was just getting an interest (again) in the Estes line when she did that. From there, my interest really grew and I have attended and flown in many launches including several high power launches. I am thoroughly enjoying rocketry and all that goes with it. (except the obvious problems) I just wanted to express my view of ER, and my wish that it will continue. Len Bryan CAR S620 L3 Len - I totally agree it is a shame to potentially lose a publication supporting this hobby -- especially one that tries to cover HPR (a relatively new interest of mine also). But the "formula" is not working, the content is deteriorating, advertisers aren't paying their bills and Mr. McNeely is loosing money. Sometimes you just have to cut your loses and go do something else. Let's face it -- the Internet and all of the available content is hurting publications such as this one. > Regarding Extreme Rocketry: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Len Bryan > CAR S620 L3 << But the "formula" is not working, the content is deteriorating, advertisers aren't paying their bills and Mr. McNeely is loosing money. <snip> <<Let's face it -- the Internet and all of the available content is hurting publications such as this one. >> Personally I don't understand the complaints about the content. It must be a matter of taste, as I much prefer ER over Sport Rocketry which usually has too much stuff I don't care about (kiddie launches, contests). But of course others like SR better than ER because those are the kinds of articles that interest them. As for the internet, sure you can find just about any tech info on the web that you could get from a magazine, but I still prefer magazines. For one thing, I can sit down at a restaurant and read a magazine while I eat. Can't do that with the internet. > << But the "formula" is not working, the content is deteriorating, advertisers > aren't paying their bills and Mr. McNeely is loosing money. <snip> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > like SR better than ER because those are the kinds of articles that interest > them. SR publishes articles on building rockets and has in almost every issue I've received. It wins hands down for that alone. Could "Extreme Rocketry" have a single article that's on "extreme rocketry"? > As for the internet, sure you can find just about any tech info on the web that > you could get from a magazine, but I still prefer magazines. For one thing, I > can sit down at a restaurant and read a magazine while I eat. Can't do that > with the internet. ER doesn't have enough content to bother taking to a restaurant. The last 2 issues I received had articles which were reduced from web pages (excellent pages by the way) so they could fit in the few technical pages left after the interview. Where's the extreme? << SR publishes articles on building rockets and has in almost every issue I've received. It wins hands down for that alone.>> Hmm, I seem to recall seeing plenty of construction articles in ER. <<Could "Extreme Rocketry" have a single article that's on "extreme rocketry"? Define "extreme". Is it just big dumb rockets? Rockets with special payloads? Homebrew motors? Composite construction? High altitude? Unusual designs? Again, I've seen all of these types of things in ER. << The last 2 issues I received had articles which were reduced from web pages (excellent pages by the way) so they could fit in the few technical pages left after the interview. >> So basically, you want more construction articles and dump the interviews, right? Wouldn't it have been easier (and more constructive) to say that from the start? :) Extreme - Anything except Yellow & Red rockets with cameras. 8-) ><< SR publishes articles on building rockets and has in almost every issue I've >received. It wins hands down for that alone.>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >right? Wouldn't it have been easier (and more constructive) to say that from >the start? :) << Extreme - Anything except Yellow & Red rockets with cameras. 8-) >> LOL!! >Where's the extreme? It never was extreme except in name. It has a good title & lots of fluff. It should have been called Fluffy Rocketry. > >Where's the extreme? > > It never was extreme except in name. It has a good title & lots of > fluff. It should have been called Fluffy Rocketry. Agreed. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv ><< But the "formula" is not working, the content is deteriorating, advertisers >aren't paying their bills and Mr. McNeely is loosing money. <snip> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >can sit down at a restaurant and read a magazine while I eat. Can't do that >with the internet. Check out your local internet cafe' for lunch and on-line tech content! Patrick SignaturePatrick Harvey NAR 81752 L2 Bluegrass Rocketry Society NAR# 657 - Advisor Visit the BluesRockS website: http://users.adelphia.net/~iceage/index.html Kentucky TARC teams welcome! > Len - I totally agree it is a shame to potentially lose a publication > supporting this hobby -- especially one that tries to cover HPR (a > relatively new interest of mine also). Ah, but that's the problem. The title is Extreme, yes? Count pages on the number of 'extreme' projects in rocketry. Is it more or less than the number of pages devoted to the article and pictures of a person? Heck, it doesn't cover HPR. Put some HPR or even Extreme rocketry content and he might just have a profitable magazine there. Of course if you want a toilet mag you can read in 15 minutes, it's perfect. I've dropped Popular Science and Mechanics for that reason... > But the "formula" is not working, the > content is deteriorating, advertisers aren't paying their bills and Mr. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Len Bryan > > CAR S620 L3 << Heck, it doesn't cover HPR. >> Say what??? ER has lots of high power rocketry stuff! Just as a random example, I happened to have the May/June 2003 issue handy. It has a high power/EX launch report (Eastern Shore) featuring several huge rockets; it has an article about EX propellents; a review of a Dynacom kit made entirely of G10 and aluminum; and an interview with a high power modeler with some very cool rockets. In addition to these articles there were 10 photos of other rockets, and eight of those were high power. > << Heck, it doesn't cover HPR. >> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > some very cool rockets. In addition to these articles there were 10 photos of > other rockets, and eight of those were high power. July 2003 #28 52 pages (including front & back leaf) Front cover rocket photo 2,3 ad 4,5 TOC (2 photos) 6 publication page (ex photo,... shuttle flight) 7 ad 8 mailbox, rol news 9 ads 10 rol news, 2 launch photos (hpr) 11 ads 12 rol news, 2 'hot' products 13 ads 14-15 finally some meat. Airframe basics (very basic, not extreme) 16-25 Kory Kline, full page photo ever odd page 26-27 Centerfold, I'll give you this one is HPR 28 How to get published 29 KKcontinued 30-35 Doc's article on NSL which appears to be about 2 pages. 2 page photo of people looking up, one or 2 rockets visible in the crowd. 36 Road to compliance. Actually a full page. 37 ad 38 1/2 ad 1/2 compliance 39 ads 40 3/4 page Terry McCreary colored flame. I'd toss that into extreme. 41 ad 42 3/4 page photo of KK with paragraph description of the awsum rocket he's holding 43 ads 44 Foam cutting (condensed from Vatsaas website) 45 ads 46 review of book The Mercury 13 47 ads 48 launch calander from Aerotech's web page 1 photo maybe a HPR 49 ad 50 Aft closure Safe Distances (holy smokes, no whinning) 51 ad (ibc) people looking up again 52 ad (bc) a hammer(?) Page 19 has 2 pictures of KK with large monochopters which I would toss in extreme. What, that's 3 'extremes' in this issue? 4 publication pages 15-1/2 pages ads 11 pages interview 5-1/2 technical (cough!) pages 6 page launch report 1 page book review couple pages editorial, product news and reader comments Sports Rocketry July/August, 2003 I just happened to have these 2 on top of each other and flipped open the SR because you commented. 6 pages of the Project X-30 (extreme) Photos of 10x MarsLander (extreme) 4 pages building a Shuttle glider an 2 pages of plans 3 pages motor certification list (waste) 2 page review of Desert Fox showing construction 2 page review Altimate I with modifications Gee, if SR keeps it up, it will have more extreme content than ER. Just noticed it was a buck cheaper, too. > Gee, if SR keeps it up, it will have more extreme content than ER. Just > noticed it was a buck cheaper, too. Interesting factual analysis. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv > > Gee, if SR keeps it up, it will have more extreme content than ER. Just > > noticed it was a buck cheaper, too. > > Interesting factual analysis. Jan/Feb SR just arrived. 8 pages on Kingsford High School's high power program including bowling ball rocket (extreme). 8 pages dedicated to a level 3 flight (intermixed with small box ads) from project construction to lessons learned. 3 pages Civil Air Patrol 1 full page rocket plans 3 pages Bee Two (hpr with dual deploy) 5 pages launch report including a multiple L1500 motor rocket (extreme) 2 pg rocket review 2 1/2 pg certified motors (waste) 3 page review estes r/c glider (extreme) 4 pages launches I believe the Estes glider is the same one I sent money in for in the late 70s, early 80s which they refunded because they didn't go into production. I shoulda waited... Granted, they intermix small ads with the articles, but there's meat in them stories. Being as in-depth as they are, I don't mind reading the topics I'm not particularly interested in (duration and what not). I think it's extreme that they can do so much with so little compared to building huge rockets that just weigh more and use more glue. Tomas Beach deserves a hearty pat on the back and swift kick in the backside to get back to work on the next issue... I'd bet money he's already heard "there's not enough mod rock content in this issue"! > Tomas Beach deserves a hearty pat on the back and swift kick in the backside > to get back to work on the next issue... Point. Kudos from me too. My ads are more a vote of support for the good work on the magazine than any expectation of "pull". NAR policies tend to kill that hope sufficiently well. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv I was surprised to see your ad in the latest HPR. -Rich > My ads are more a vote of support for the good work on the magazine than > any expectation of "pull". Jerry had an ad in HPR? I hope he pulls a Gary on them. >I was surprised to see your ad in the latest HPR. >-Rich > >> My ads are more a vote of support for the good work on the magazine than >> any expectation of "pull". > Jerry had an ad in HPR? I hope he pulls a Gary on them. I never pull a Gary. Perhaps that is why they don't like me. I pay my bills for ads when run correctly. > >I was surprised to see your ad in the latest HPR. > >-Rich SR BTW is the only HPR magazine in the marketplace of note. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv Oops, got the 2 confused. (Got them both the same day). My mistake. -Rich > > Jerry had an ad in HPR? I hope he pulls a Gary on them. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com > My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv << Jerry had an ad in HPR? I hope he pulls a Gary on them. >> You hope Jerry goes bankrupt? I don't hope anyone goes bankrupt. It was meant as humor & to show my distaste for the management of HPR. ><< Jerry had an ad in HPR? I hope he pulls a Gary on them. >> > >You hope Jerry goes bankrupt? I couldn't agree more! Joel wrote: > Tomas Beach deserves a hearty pat on the back... What about depth of the coverage? - DETAILS ><< Heck, it doesn't cover HPR. >> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >some very cool rockets. In addition to these articles there were 10 photos of >other rockets, and eight of those were high power. > What about depth of the coverage? - DETAILS The only magazine that ever had depth was CRm. Jerry > ><< Heck, it doesn't cover HPR. >> > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >of > >other rockets, and eight of those were high power. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >>What about depth of the coverage? - DETAILS > > The only magazine that ever had depth was CRm. > > Jerry ROTFLMAO!!! << What about depth of the coverage? - DETAILS >> I agree, the depth is often lacking. Would be nice to see more detail, plans etc. I like the interviews but often too much space is wasted on large "family album" pics. >advertisers aren't paying their bills and Mr. >McNeely is loosing money. That's is hard for me to understand. They require payment up front for ads. No pay, no ad. Mike Fisher Binder Design http://binderdesign.com > >advertisers aren't paying their bills and Mr. > >McNeely is loosing money. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Binder Design > http://binderdesign.com No, once you have a customer in magazines, you give them terms. This is further evidence the industry is crippled. Jerry My resume? http://v-serv.com/crp/CRm/4-81/CRm.4-81.htm SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >No, once you have a customer in magazines, you give them terms. Funny, their ad contract didn't specify that. I advertised for over two years in ER, and always was billed in advance of my ad running. I only stopped running ads because "I" could no longer afford the rates to justify one order a month that the ad generated. Mike Fisher Binder Design http://binderdesign.com > >No, once you have a customer in magazines, you give them terms. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Binder Design > http://binderdesign.com Apparantly they had better terms for their non-arms length relationship with errortech. Too bad so sad. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >>No, once you have a customer in magazines, you give them terms. > > Funny, their ad contract didn't specify that. I advertised for over two years > in ER, and always was billed in advance of my ad running. I only stopped > running ads because "I" could no longer afford the rates to justify one order a > month that the ad generated. THAT sounds like the real problem. Advertizers aren't getting the hit rate from ER, so they drop their ads. Publisher is now short of $$$ to continue. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html >THAT sounds like the real problem. Advertizers aren't getting the hit rate >from ER, so they drop their ads. Publisher is now short of $$$ to continue. > > Bob Kaplow Very observant Bob. That was my theory all along. Advertising in hard copy is expensive compared to maintaining a webstore, and generates only a small fraction of the sales. It is good PR though, that's why I continued until I could no longer afford to. Since the whole industry is hurting right now, usually the first thing to go is ineffective advertising. We're running lean and mean over here. Mike Fisher Binder Design > could no longer afford to. Since the whole industry is hurting right now, > usually the first thing to go is ineffective advertising. We're running lean > and mean over here. I ramped mine up :) SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv > Since the whole industry is hurting right now, >> usually the first thing to go is ineffective advertising. We're running >lean >> and mean over here. > >I ramped mine up :) You ramped up ineffective advertising?....Doesn't sound like a smart move to me. I try to stick with what's working, but that's just me. I hear you're made of money anyway. How about a bid for Aerotech?:) Mike Fisher > > Since the whole industry is hurting right now, > >> usually the first thing to go is ineffective advertising. We're running [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You ramped up ineffective advertising?....Doesn't sound like a smart move to > me. I try to stick with what's working, but that's just me. The industry NEEDS the support. > I hear you're made of money anyway. How about a bid for Aerotech?:) > > Mike Fisher Hmmm. It seems RCS/Gary is willing to compete with his own Aerotech (breach of fiduciary duty) so why bother? Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >The industry NEEDS the support. Yes, but if you hurt your business financially to do it, the point is moot, especially if it means that you have to shut down. >>Hmmm. It seems RCS/Gary is willing to compete with his own Aerotech >(breach of fiduciary duty) so why bother?<< Because you'd then have all of the permits to drive TRA crazy? :) Mike F. > >The industry NEEDS the support. > > Yes, but if you hurt your business financially to do it, the point is moot, > especially if it means that you have to shut down. True but if you are kicking a.s and taking names, then running a few ads is a drop in the bucket, why not piss a bit in that direction too. I have more beer :) Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >True but if you are kicking a.s and taking names, then running a few ads >is a drop in the bucket, If you are kicking a.s and taking names, then you are the ONLY one in the industry doing so right now. Mike Fisher > >True but if you are kicking a.s and taking names, then running a few ads > >is a drop in the bucket, > > If you are kicking a.s and taking names, then you are the ONLY one in the > industry doing so right now. The HPR industry is screwed by association policies. Not by laws. Not by the economy. Not even by the Aerotech accident. Association policies. Whether you believe me or not I actually don't care but I have been doing this for 30+ years and I know what constitutes a good or bad economy and other issues like companies coming and going like the sunrise. Association policies are the culprit. Pure and simple. And last I checked I was NOT in the HPR industry. Association policies are the culprit there too. > Mike Fisher SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >>The industry NEEDS the support. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Because you'd then have all of the permits to drive TRA crazy? :) I just want to know if the motors would be Aerotech by USR or USR by Aerotech? Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html >>>The industry NEEDS the support. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I just want to know if the motors would be Aerotech by USR or USR by > Aerotech? Or Aerotech by Aerotech. Bob Kaplow wrote: > I just want to know if the motors would be Aerotech by USR or USR by > Aerotech? Never fear. What are the chances? SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv > Bob Kaplow wrote: > > > I just want to know if the motors would be Aerotech by USR or USR by > > Aerotech? > > Never fear. What are the chances? Unfortunately the next $30k of what I eventually expect to ever spend on rocket stuff is probably already going to go to liquid propellant projects... -dave w > > Bob Kaplow wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -dave w Switching to water rockets huh? ;-) RDH8 > > > Bob Kaplow wrote: > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > ;-) > RDH8 :) SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv > Bob Kaplow wrote: > >> I just want to know if the motors would be Aerotech by USR or USR by >> Aerotech? > > Never fear. What are the chances? Depends. Got more than $30K? Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html > > In article <20040128181042.26465.00000986@mb-m07.aol.com>, mfreptiles@aol.com (Mfreptiles) writes:> > I just want to know if the motors would be Aerotech by USR or USR by > > Aerotech? > > Or Aerotech by Aerotech. What about "Kosdon by AMW" ? ;-) RDH8 > > > In article <20040128181042.26465.00000986@mb-m07.aol.com>, > mfreptiles@aol.com (Mfreptiles) writes:> > I just want to know if the motors [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > RDH8 Kosdon East returns to the animal cage? SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >>could no longer afford to. Since the whole industry is hurting right now, >>usually the first thing to go is ineffective advertising. We're running lean >>and mean over here. > > I ramped mine up :) Where do you advertise? >Where do you advertise? Jerry uses RMR, of course....:) Mike Fisher >>Where do you advertise? > > Jerry uses RMR, of course....:) > > Mike Fisher Well, at least he keeps costs down. << THAT sounds like the real problem. Advertizers aren't getting the hit rate from ER, so they drop their ads. >> I wonder how it compares in that regard to SR. <<Publisher is now short of $$$ to continue. >> The past two years have been such a rough time for the hobby, it's hurting everybody. "the incredible Jerry Irvine...with his fantastic 2 stage Uprated Mongrel?" > > >advertisers aren't paying their bills and Mr. > > >McNeely is loosing money. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > http://v-serv.com/crp/CRm/4-81/CRm.4-81.htm > "the incredible Jerry Irvine...with his fantastic 2 stage Uprated Mongrel?" Korey was a bit "pver the top." It's how legends get started. You have already seen here on rmr how rumours get started. It doesn't take much. One thing is certainly true. That era WAS the start of HPR as we know it now. Jerry > > No, once you have a customer in magazines, you give them terms. This is > > further evidence the industry is crippled. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv << No pay, no ad. >> Maybe the check bounced? << I think that the (suggested) loss of any publication that is supportive of the hobby is a shame. >> I agree. Especially when each of the three magazines currently in publication has it's own strengths and weaknesses. >Would you like more cheese with that whine? Enough already! You tried, it is >not working, it is time to go do something else with your life... Open a hair salon? I loved that one. In the aft section the guy that's interviewed in the same issue, gets slammed for smoking. I agree about the whinning & content. In fact I & others have commented on it several times over the years. HPR has sucked for years. I just got the November issue. Aside from a lot of the content being old, it was ok. It's still comic book size. Phil Stein >> > I saw the latest issue at Hobby Bench and >> > glanced at the Aft Closure. What a whiner. Dropped it back in the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >> RDH8 >>It's still comic book size. Comic Books were much bigger then that when I last read them. Art > I loved that one. In the aft section the guy that's interviewed in > the same issue, gets slammed for smoking. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > >> RDH8 You're right. I was being overly generous. Phil >>>It's still comic book >size. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> > >> >> RDH8 You ain't heard nothin yet! I was just looking at the AT bankruptcy papers & they are planning to stiff Rocketeer Media (ER) for $6444. That bitch is REALLY gonna scream!! Phil >I have been a loyal reader of "Extreme Rocketry" magazine for a couple of >years. I did not say "subscriber" since I have chosen to support the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Maybe it is time Mr. McNeely to "cut bait". > You ain't heard nothin yet! > > I was just looking at the AT bankruptcy papers & they are planning to > stiff Rocketeer Media (ER) for $6444. That bitch is REALLY gonna > scream!! How much do you want to bet they continue to blackball USR who has tried to get them to settle and resolve, but they now allow "RCS" to advertise with no hiccup at all despite the fact that "Aerotech" (owned by the same guy) stiffed them. For a much LARGER amount than RM/ROL "refuses to accept" from USR. I say refuses to accept because that is exactly what is happening. I tried numerous times to "make good" and they refused!!! > >Maybe it is time Mr. McNeely to "cut bait". That's friggin phunnie! SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv >>You ain't heard nothin yet! >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I say refuses to accept because that is exactly what is happening. I > tried numerous times to "make good" and they refused!!! He has the right to refuse service to anyone he wishes. << I was just looking at the AT bankruptcy papers & they are planning to stiff Rocketeer Media (ER) for $6444. >> Ouch. I'd sure hate to lose ER, but it sure looks like it's gonna go bellyup at this rate. |
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