 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion Groups General ModelsRailroadsRocketsRadio Controlled Air ModelsHelicoptersLand ModelsWater ModelsModelGeeks.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Model Forum / General / Rockets / October 2004[F-FT] NCR Bomarc
Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present to myself... Now, the question is, what modifications are needed to make it most useful? Does anyone know what the stock tubes are for it, and whether I should put in a 24mm or 29mm motor mount in it? Any other modifications needed to make good use of this kit? David Erbas-White Put a 38mm motor in it and be sure to use a rail instead of a rod. That thing is way heavy. I don't know that it will save weight, but instead of covering the wings with the plastic, use thin balsa sheet. It should go down easier, and be easier to repair in the event of a crash. Those are 2 things I would do differently if I was going to build another one. > Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > to myself... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David Erbas-White >Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present >to myself... Was that the one I brought up because of the shipping charges? Eldred  Signaturehttp://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank: -1.047 Slayer Spektera lvl 79 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 44 Necro US East > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Eldred Don't know. When you initially brought it up, I did a quick search on Estes Bomarc, and got several hits (including about 4 NCR kits), so I kept an eye on them. Lost the first couple, then won this one. It WAS one of the ones from AuctionDrop, so it might be. David Erbas-White >Don't know. When you initially brought it up, I did a quick search on >Estes Bomarc, and got several hits (including about 4 NCR kits), so I >kept an eye on them. Lost the first couple, then won this one. > >It WAS one of the ones from AuctionDrop, so it might be. Well, congrats!<g> Eldred Signaturehttp://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank: -1.047 Slayer Spektera lvl 79 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 44 Necro US East > Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > to myself... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > should put in a 24mm or 29mm motor mount in it? Any other modifications > needed to make good use of this kit? 29mm -- it's too heavy for 29mm. A guy in our club flies his on H128s, and it flies very nicely. -Kevin >> Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present >> to myself... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > A guy in our club flies his on H128s, and it flies very nicely. H128 is 29mm. You must have meant "too heavy for 24mm" which it is. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. what about the Ellis Mtn G series.....they are 24mm low G.... G37-6 ? http://www.tripoli.org/tmt/new_motors/EM%20G37%20jun%2009.pdf I personally would place a 38mm main motor mount and then use 29/38mm and 24/38mm inserts...... this would provide the most flexibility in engine selection..... what is the lowest recommended motor for a NCR Bomarc ? shockie B) >>> Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present >>> to myself... [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. > what about the Ellis Mtn G series.....they are 24mm low G.... > G37-6 ? > > http://www.tripoli.org/tmt/new_motors/EM%20G37%20jun%2009.pdf So there is. And I've seen them flown on things like the AT F39 reload too. > I personally would place a 38mm main motor mount and then use 29/38mm and > 24/38mm inserts...... this would provide the most flexibility in engine > selection..... > > what is the lowest recommended motor for a NCR Bomarc ? According to Estes the F62:-) Unless you build very light, I wouldn't go with any average thrust under 50. If you build heavy, you need even more. Like a G80. Not sure if the G37 you mention would work: I'd be more worried about the 37 than the G. Maybe the AT F55. But it's moot: the kit comes with a 29mm MMT, so with a bit of peeling or sanding, you can use just about any 29mm motor with a high enough initial thrust, and there are PLENTY of those to choose from. It's really a shame. The NCR by Estes kits were nice. And much more available than even AT. I really wish they were still around and they kept making more stuff in that series. Ditto the motors. A bit expensive compared to equivalent from other sources (and a LOT more expensive than F or G reloads), but I loved the smoke. I flew TEN of these in Muncie last month, before they lose certification at the end of this year. Other than my collection, I've got one left, that I'll try to use at the NIRA scout launch next Saturday. I've got the perfect rocket for it, and it's the perfect weekend to fly it. You may have seen it at NARAM this summer also flown on an F62. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. >> H128 is 29mm. You must have meant "too heavy for 24mm" which it is. Sorry, you're right. I mean it's too heavy for 24mm. -Kevin > what about the Ellis Mtn G series.....they are 24mm low G.... > G37-6 ? Personally, I wouldn't build anything with Ellis Mountain motors in mind -- we've seen a VERY high CATO rate at our launches, and I rather doubt anyone in our club will be buying any more of them. > what is the lowest recommended motor for a NCR Bomarc ? Depends on how heavy you build it. It's draggy and depending on how it's built, could also end up "piggy". -Kevin kevin: can u be more specific? Has Ellis Mtn been notified? NAR/TRA? shockie B) >> what about the Ellis Mtn G series.....they are 24mm low G.... >> G37-6 ? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -Kevin > kevin: can u be more specific? Has Ellis Mtn been notified? NAR/TRA? I don't know who they've notified. I would hope both Ellis and NAR/TRA, but not being the flier, the paperwork isn't mine to file. -Kevin > > what about the Ellis Mtn G series.....they are 24mm low G.... > > G37-6 ? > > Personally, I wouldn't build anything with Ellis Mountain motors in mind > -- we've seen a VERY high CATO rate at our launches, and I rather doubt > anyone in our club will be buying any more of them. P.S. I told you so. > > what is the lowest recommended motor for a NCR Bomarc ? > > Depends on how heavy you build it. It's draggy and depending on how > it's built, could also end up "piggy". > > -Kevin SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > Personally, I wouldn't build anything with Ellis Mountain motors in mind > -- we've seen a VERY high CATO rate at our launches, and I rather doubt > anyone in our club will be buying any more of them. So why haven't they been decertified? There actually is a valid rule for that!! SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > Personally, I wouldn't build anything with Ellis Mountain motors in mind > -- we've seen a VERY high CATO rate at our launches, and I rather doubt > anyone in our club will be buying any more of them. Humm.. I've flown over 20 Ellis motors so far this year. no catos yet, knock on plastic laptop. I've seen at least 20 others fly as well, no catos. I saw an under powered flight saturday night at MP2. The rocket was too heavy for the J110 ellis motor. I have heard people using large headed ignitors in Ellis motors causing them then to blow the nozzle however. I've seen large headed ignitors blowing AT F21s , and AT F20s the same way. I've just used the Quick Burst ignitors myself. I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? Some have been using ematches diped as well, bad for C slots, those ematch heads. > Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? Define "large-headed igniters"; I know at least one of the guys uses igniters with pretty doggone small heads. No clue what the others were using. To be honest, I don't know who all flew them. -Kevin > To be honest, I don't know who all flew them. Hi, Kevin, Robert Ellis has gone to fiberglass (SU) cases. The last few I've witnessed were all successful. I have a couple in my stash, and the only thing I'm afraid of is losing the rocket...in the air :) BTW, one of them you saw mighta been mine at LDRS in 2002. I69 cato. Now, with the case change, I have high confidence. Doug << Now, with the case change, I have high confidence.>> The one I had that catoed has a black, filament wound case. Looks like fiberglass to me, but could be some other kind of fiber. > << Now, with the case change, I have high confidence.>> > > The one I had that catoed has a black, filament wound case. Looks like > fiberglass to me, but could be some other kind of fiber. That kills that excuse. Decertify. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? Some have been using ematches diped as well, bad for C slots, those ematch heads. >> I recently attempted to launch with an Ellis I69, using the quickburst igniter supplied by Ellis. The motor catoed on ignition. He says he is now telling people to insert the igniter only halfway, and that he is no longer warrantees that motor. > << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. > Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > people to insert the igniter only halfway, and that he is no longer warrantees > that motor. That is clear basis for decertification. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >That is clear basis for decertification. For one reported CATO? > >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. > >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > For one reported CATO? Dozens were reported. The manufacturer themselves withdrew its warranty! Known consumer hazard? The manufacturer changed its igniter placement suggestion from both certified position and common practice. It's a bad idea to keep it certified. All they have to do is redesign and recertify it for god's sake! AT did that with the c-slot version of the H125 when it was blowing consistently due to erosivity. Tech fact Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. >> >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Tech fact Jerry Assuming that you haven't taken liberties with the truth, I agree. I'm going to look into this further. > >> >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. > >> >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > I'm going to look into this further. Oooooo I am sooooooo impressed. To what end? You have no authoirity or clout or even historical basis for involvement. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> >> >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. >> >> >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Jerry Ever consider that what I said is what I meant? I'm going to look into it period. Since we're talking about impressing people, why don't you try doing something constructive? That does not include shooting off your big mouth. >> >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. >> >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > certified position and common practice. It's a bad idea to keep it > certified. At LDRS 21 in Amarillo (2002) I flew a cluster that had 3 I69's with some sort of 54mm in the center. When I purchased the motors on site from Rob Ellis he told me to put the igniters only halfway up the core. Rob even looked at my igniters to verify they were appropriate for the motors. All 3 I69's catoed. One blew the entire nozzle off the motor. The second blew the nozzle and half of one side of the casing. The third completely blew, leaving not much more than the upper closure. When I returned with the motor remains and damaged rocket Rob told me that I "must have done something wrong." No warranty was offered, even upon request. No cato history or warranty disclaimer was given at time of purchase. Later everyone said that motor was well known for it's catos Dave > >> >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. > >> >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Dave I didn't even raise that issue before, because of possible claims of bias. But with this first hand report it becomes fair. That is a violation of U.S. warranty law, is a clear case of a warranty claim, and the fact he did it "in person" is also a clear demonstration of personal ethics. Watch out. Caveat Emptor. Jerry P.S. wanna bet that as a result of this rmr thread you are suddenly offered a replacement?? 2.2 YEARS later? :) SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >>> >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. >>> >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >Dave That sucks! > >>> >> << I plan to fly a J228, J110, G35, and I69 at three oaks. > >>> >> Kevin, can you ask if they were using large headed ignitors ? [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > That sucks! That's the vendor you have been holding out as an example of TRA allowing others to certify. AND they are the ones who also did the errortech J350 debacle. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >That's the vendor you have been holding out as an example of TRA >allowing others to certify. No it isn't. In fact I don't think I've mentioned any specific vendor. Seems like a good time to mention Loki & Sky Ripper. Did you know that Sky Ripper uses AT's propellant certification? > >That's the vendor you have been holding out as an example of TRA > >allowing others to certify. > > No it isn't. In fact I don't think I've mentioned any specific > vendor. Then my point is still made. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> >That's the vendor you have been holding out as an example of TRA >> >allowing others to certify. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Then my point is still made. If you say so. > > what about the Ellis Mtn G series.....they are 24mm low G.... > > G37-6 ? > > Personally, I wouldn't build anything with Ellis Mountain motors in mind > -- we've seen a VERY high CATO rate at our launches, and I rather doubt > anyone in our club will be buying any more of them. heh, you need to build a rocket for the engine :) Got a large batch of "special" D engines (closeout, 75% off) bought them all. stored them safely. about 75% had a loose propellant failure. had a bunch of D12-0's so I built some cone rocket*s* for them (see other threads). not one of them had failures, still got the cones (and a spool) Now building a remake of my upscale big bertha, from a plastic plotter paper tube, hand turned nosecone and basswood fins. the original one survived at least 4 catos, with the last one generating so much heat the plastic tube melted, softened, and folded in half. definetly one for the rocket wall of shame. Kick @$$ launches though :) SignatureTater President of MARS Club (NAR #660) www.mars-rocketry.com KC9ESF NAR #79654 L1 AMA #747769 EAA #703312 remove spam spelled backwards to reply > Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > to myself... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David Erbas-White David, check out www.rocketreviews.com - do a search for "Bomarc." There are several in-depth NCR Bomarc reviews addressing some of the issues with the vacuformed parts and suggested upgrades. Of course, I imagine there is nothing better than a personal response with good advice, but if you're in a pinch for a good review check out EMRR. HTH, Eugenio Cebollero, NAR #81161, Team Tour de Deuce I saw a nice one of these last weekend. A heavy kit. The instructions say to fly it on an F. No way. I convinced the owner to use a G and it was still almost not enough. I'd put a 38mm mount in it if I were you. Not to mention that the 29mm tube they supply with the kit won't fit standard 29mm motors anyway. It was designed for the off spec, ill fated Darkstar motors, that only came in F62. Mike Fisher >I saw a nice one of these last weekend. A heavy kit. The instructions say to >fly it on an F. No way. I convinced the owner to use a G and it was still [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Mike Fisher I'm trying to stay in mid-power range, and not move up to high-power. I don't have the opportunity to launch often enough to make certification worth while. The Aerotech F52-5 claims to be able to lift the 32 oz (listed weight) of the rocket, but that may not be taking into account propellant weight, etc. If anyone has launched a 'stock' NCR Bomarc on an F52-5 I'd be interested in hearing about it. I'd also be interested in hearing how anyone may have build one a bit lighter (while not decreasing the integrity of it). David Erbas-White > If anyone has launched a 'stock' NCR Bomarc on an F52-5 I'd be > interested in hearing about it. I'd also be interested in hearing how > anyone may have build one a bit lighter (while not decreasing the > integrity of it). The F52 is pretty similar to the NCR F62. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. > > If anyone has launched a 'stock' NCR Bomarc on an F52-5 I'd be > > interested in hearing about it. I'd also be interested in hearing how > > anyone may have build one a bit lighter (while not decreasing the > > integrity of it). > > The F52 is pretty similar to the NCR F62. Or the single-use F50 (the G80's kid brother, and my first composite motor as a BAR). Bomarc sounds like a good G125 application... too bad the silly "maximum 80 N av. thrust" rule has it classified as a "high power" motor; that reduces AT's incentive to resurrect it... -dave w > > > If anyone has launched a 'stock' NCR Bomarc on an F52-5 I'd be > > > interested in hearing about it. I'd also be interested in hearing how [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -dave w Nice to treat all adults as children, eh? NAR and TRA CLEARLY did that in NFPA (meetings in rented rooms). There was NO pressure from CPSC to do anything but restrict access to children. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > Bomarc sounds like a good G125 application... too > bad the silly "maximum 80 N av. thrust" rule has > it classified as a "high power" motor; that reduces > AT's incentive to resurrect it... It's an HPR motor, and it's out of production and no longer onthe certified motor list. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. > I saw a nice one of these last weekend. A heavy kit. The instructions say to > fly it on an F. No way. I convinced the owner to use a G and it was still > almost not enough. I'd put a 38mm mount in it if I were you. Not to mention > that the 29mm tube they supply with the kit won't fit standard 29mm motors > anyway. It was designed for the off spec, ill fated Darkstar motors, that only > came in F62. Rather than replace the tube, which then requires reaming out the molded centering rings, you can just peel a layer or two out of the end of the MMT. It's shown in my Phantom 4000 article below. There was a DarkStar G70 certified, but never made it into distribution. I've got one in my collection. It was a very low end G, around 90 NS http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/NCR/G70.pdf Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. > Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > to myself... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > should put in a 24mm or 29mm motor mount in it? Any other modifications > needed to make good use of this kit? The NCR version used a MMT tube slightly too small for standard 29mm motors. See the baffle article in my .sig for instructions on how to peel the end of the tube to fit standard AT motors. It's too big and heavy to consider flying on 24mm motors. And use my baffle in it. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. >The NCR version used a MMT tube slightly too small for standard 29mm motors. >See the baffle article in my .sig for instructions on how to peel the end of >the tube to fit standard AT motors. It's too big and heavy to consider >flying on 24mm motors. And use my baffle in it. > > Would it be better to simply replace the tube with a 'standard' 29mm, rather than attempting to modify it? I've done this type of peeling in the past, and my big problem is always having the paper 'tear' about 2/3 of the way up where I want it to go, making it almost impossible to peel near the forward end of the engine. David Erbas-White >>The NCR version used a MMT tube slightly too small for standard 29mm motors. >>See the baffle article in my .sig for instructions on how to peel the end of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of the way up where I want it to go, making it almost impossible to peel > near the forward end of the engine. The advantage of peeling is that if you repalce the tube, then the new tube is slightly too fat for the molded centering rings. Then you either have to ream or replace them... Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. My first HPR rocket was an NCR Phantom4000 which has the same centering rings and motor tube as the NCR Bomarc. I replaced the stock motor tube with a standard(?) 38mm tube and plywood centering rings. Flown on motors from G40 to H110, and will likely handle low-end Is. I would for sure recommend replacing the included rings and motor tube with plywood and 38mm parts. ian ian at stephensonline.ca >>>The NCR version used a MMT tube slightly too small for standard 29mm motors. >>>See the baffle article in my .sig for instructions on how to peel the end of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. > My first HPR rocket was an NCR Phantom4000 which has the same > centering rings and motor tube as the NCR Bomarc. I replaced the stock [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I would for sure recommend replacing the included rings and motor tube > with plywood and 38mm parts. I'm getting several recommendations to go with a 38mm motor mount, but as I've stated previously, I'm not ready to get into HPR at this point (due to time/money constraints). However, would it seem to be feasible to put in a 38mm motor mount, and then (if it exists) use a 38mm-29mm adapter? If so, this would obviously add some weight, and make it only feasible to fly on a 29mm G, but maybe this is a solution. Has anyone tried this? Is there a 38mm-29mm adapter? Also, much of what is being said doesn't mean too much to me at this point, since I don't have the kit yet (nor the instructions), to understand why the pods blow off (for example). It does appear that some kind of cross-bracing structure would be necessary, I'll have to see what I can work out. It also appears from the comments here that additional nose weight would be necessary when using a 38mm engine, but would be pointless with a 29mm. Has anyone played around with adding different amounts of nose weight to this (based on engine used)? Thanks to all for your feedback and comments, it is all very much appreciated. As a side note, I'm kind of surprised that Estes hasn't re-released some kind of Bomarc in the past couple of years -- it would seem that there are many 'sizes' they could play with. I'm still trying to get one of the old Bomarcs that was ACTUALLY a boost glider. A friend of mine had one when I was a kid, and it actually flew pretty well. David Erbas-White > I'm getting several recommendations to go with a 38mm motor mount, but > as I've stated previously, I'm not ready to get into HPR at this point [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > feasible to fly on a 29mm G, but maybe this is a solution. Has anyone > tried this? Is there a 38mm-29mm adapter? At this point I'd say stick with 29mm and save the weight. Otherwise your ONLY non HPR choice might be a G80. If you had L1, then the first HPR motor I'd try is the G75 29/180 reload. It would look cool with the black smoke trail. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. >I'm getting several recommendations to go with a 38mm motor mount, but >as I've stated previously, I'm not ready to get into HPR at this point [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >feasible to fly on a 29mm G, but maybe this is a solution. Has anyone >tried this? Is there a 38mm-29mm adapter? <snip> Aerotech and CTI both have 38mm G motors but of course they require casing purchases to be that might make a person hold back. I just mention it as it is a 38mm non HPR option. BTW, the CTI motors are great but were never meant to compete (price wise) with 29mm G motors. IMHO they are worth their weight in gold as Aerotech motors still are not readily available in the "Great White North". I'm in the beginning stages of building one of these Bomarc's and have made it a 38mm so I have the motor flexibility.I will fortify mine so it can handle an H or a low average impulse I motor. I have a G79SS with its name on it. 8-) That said, a 29mm AT G-80 would launch a stock Bomarc quite nicely I think. As far as nose weight and all that, the rocket comes with a nice set of plans that clearly indicate the CP/CG relationship so if you do make any changes, you can plan it out. I tried to make a decent Rocksim file of the kit but I never really got the subassembly thing to work as well as I had hoped. Enjoy the kit! Len Bryan CAR 630 L3 TRA L2 > > My first HPR rocket was an NCR Phantom4000 which has the same > > centering rings and motor tube as the NCR Bomarc. I replaced the stock [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > feasible to fly on a 29mm G, but maybe this is a solution. Has anyone > tried this? Is there a 38mm-29mm adapter? PML has one for sale, as does Aeropack (the latter works with their screw-on retainers) - or you could make one yourself with some 29mm tubing, 38mm coupler, and centering rings. -dave w > Would it be better to simply replace the tube with a 'standard' 29mm, > rather than attempting to modify it? I've done this type of peeling [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > David Erbas-White OK, the kit arrived today. Although sealed and well packed, it is apparent that at some point in the past the box had suffered some crush damage. It appears that the rear tube and the tube coupler are badly smashed. They are possibly recoverable, but I'd just as soon replace them with good parts to build a kit like this. So, I guess I'll be buying some fresh 3" tubes and a coupler... Since I'm doing that, I'll probably go ahead and get a 'standard' 29mm motor mount tube. This will solve the above question, obviously -- though I did take the supplied tube, and despite minor problems successfully tore out enough paper to get a 29mm RMS to fit smoothly. Related to this, instead of using the molded centering rings that come with this, I'll probably purchase some wood rings for this as well, but does anyone know if there is any significant weight difference between wood rings and the molded ones? Having (briefly) looked at the instructions, I'm somewhat curious as to why the coupler is located at the aft end, instead of the forward end. I know it's not much weight, but wouldn't it be slightly better for the weight of the coupler to be towards the forward end? Just curious. David Erbas-White > > Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > > to myself... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the tube to fit standard AT motors. It's too big and heavy to consider > flying on 24mm motors. And use my baffle in it. I have correct ID BT-11's in stock. No ATF permit needed. > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" > >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> The NCR version used a MMT tube slightly too small for standard 29mm motors. >> See the baffle article in my .sig for instructions on how to peel the end of >> the tube to fit standard AT motors. It's too big and heavy to consider >> flying on 24mm motors. And use my baffle in it. > > I have correct ID BT-11's in stock. No ATF permit needed. Lots of folks do. But the NCR/Estes tubes also had a similarly smaller OD, so the molded plastic centering rings won't fit your tube or LOC tube or AT tube... If you replace the tube, then you hae to replace or modify the rings. If you peel the tube, you can use the stock rings. I'm pretty good at peeling tubes. And I've had several folks show up at NIRA launches or meetings with an already built NCR kit. Then it's too late to fix any other way other than by peeling the tube. BTW, you can peel OR sand. I've got a 1" dowel with some coarse cubic zirconia industrial sandpaper on it. It does a pretty good job on the inside of MMTs. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. 1. Replace the stock motor tube with a loc tube. 29mm or 38mm, it's your choice. 2. Replace the motor retention gorilla lock with anything else. 3. Replace the stock balsa pylons with something that goes through the wall and braces against the opposite side of the tube. I replaced them with plywood that made an X brace inside the body tube. 4. Kevlar shock cord. 5. Fiberglass the pylon joints and wind joints. > Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > to myself... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David Erbas-White > 1. Replace the stock motor tube with a loc tube. 29mm or 38mm, it's your > choice. > 2. Replace the motor retention gorilla lock with anything else. I found the NCR (both before and after Estes) Gorilla mounts to be very solid. > 4. Kevlar shock cord. > 5. Fiberglass the pylon joints and wind joints. If you stay with a 29mm motor (LMR), the NCR kits are pretty solid built stock. The only changes I made to mine were peeling the MMT for AT motors, adding the baffle (easy since it already has 3 centering rings), and of course Kaplow Klips. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/ Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. I have seen a "stock" one fly on the F62 Darkstar, it was kind of "iffy", and was prone to damage of the nacelle, body tube joint.I built mine kind of heavy. The rocket weighs about 4 lbs now, and flies well on H128's. I replaced the MMT with true 29mm tubing and extended it up to the Nacelle mount pylons. I replaced the stock pylons, with some that would go all the way to the motor mount, and I slotted tubes and put on the end of the pylons, then built the Nacelles around these tubes.I stayed with the Vacuform, as this helped give a smoother surface, and I am no good at fiberglassing, and do not do well with sanding sealer either. I use a 3/4 pvc compression fitting to fashion a screw on engine retainer, and a separate chute for the nose as it weighs about 2 lbs, to get the cg right, and I wanted the recover weight on the airframe as light as possible. One other note on the nacelles, the instructions are not the clearest, I have seen the front vacuformed part put on the outside line a "cap" it is actually supposed to go inside with its center spike sticking out the front like a true jet engine. Hope this helps! SignatureHappy Flying! Mike Dickinson shortckt4-at-@cox.knet remove the -at- and the K in net to respond My web page http://members.cox.net/shortckt4 > Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > to myself... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David Erbas-White >Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present >to myself... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >David Erbas-White Can these beasts be made to glide return? -- Got one in the closet... Andy > >Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > >to myself... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Andy No. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay auction deals and specials. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 I thought the same thing, and if you can keep the weight down, I do not see why not. Pre-Estes NCR used to sell a 2.6in dia one, with the glide option. I have one of these to build at some point. SignatureHappy Flying! Mike Dickinson shortckt4-at-@cox.knet remove the -at- and the K in net to respond My web page http://members.cox.net/shortckt4 > >Well, I finally scored and NCR Bomarc off of ebay as my birthday present > >to myself... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Andy |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.