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Model Forum / General / Rockets / April 2005Exclusive Deals
I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of a new scratch built rocket. I have been told by the company that they can't sell to me as i'm in the UK and they have an exclusive deal with a UK rocketry re-seller that forbids them from selling to anyone else in the UK. Now i'm all for companies trying to get the best deals they can but i have to admit to feeling a bit niggled when in my opinion i am being restricted to who i can and cannot buy from. What ever happended to free trade? Question for discussion Are exclusive deals good for A The retailer B The customer C everyone Please keep comments on the topic and do not turn this into a flame war about any particular US/UK dealers or flyers please. Damian  SignatureDamian Burrin UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO EARS 1115 http://www.ukrocketry.com http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for > part of a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Please keep comments on the topic and do not turn this into a flame > war about any particular US/UK dealers or flyers please. If I were you I'd let this company know why you refuse to buy from their UK dealer and if they still will only sell to you through this dealer then I'd refuse to buy their products and find another way of achieving the same end product and advising others to do the same. There may well be laws against this sort of thing, you'd need to consult a real lawyer to know for certain, but companies only really listen when they're likely to lose sales. Chris SignatureChris Eilbeck MARS Flight Crew http://www.mars.org.uk/ UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of a > new scratch built rocket. > > I have been told by the company that they can't sell to me as i'm in the UK > and they have an exclusive deal with a UK rocketry re-seller that forbids > them from selling to anyone else in the UK. Will you please tell us all which manufacturer, so that we can all vote with our feet? > Now i'm all for companies trying to get the best deals they can but i have > to admit to feeling a bit niggled when in my opinion i am being restricted [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A The retailer No - their customer base will not go up, although they can put their prices up. > B The customer No - prices are fixed based on old (bad) exchange rates, and customer can't make use of current good exchange rates by cutting out the middleman. > C everyone You're joking right? You forgot D - The manufacturer: No - they are shutting out the whole of their market via other vendors. If a manufacturer insists on limiting their potential market, then that is their problem. I hope they all go bust. Everyone in the UK knows my position. If there is an exclusive deal, I will not buy it from ANY vendor. I know that I am not alone. If I cannot buy anything from my preferred manufacturers/vendors due to exclusive deals, then watch this space for the ebay links for my entire rocketry collection. SignatureAndy >I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of >a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Damian Why not just get someone in the States to act on your behalf. Of course, you get hit for a bit more postage, but maybe its worth it. Signature...The Bit Eimer NAR 84054 L1 "My goal in life is to be the kind of person my cat thinks he is" [remove keinewurst and reverse letters in domain to email me] -------------------------------------------------------------- > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of a > new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > B The customer > C everyone Generally the whole point is to save on shipping costs. Rocketry is such a tiny niche market, the benefits of such agreements are minimal. > Please keep comments on the topic and do not turn this into a flame war > about any particular US/UK dealers or flyers please. > > Damian Ah! That takes all the fun out of it :) SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 Last year I tried buying some kits from a manufacturer in the States, and was told that I had to buy from his 'Exclusive European Dealer'. Whilst theres nothing wrong, as such, with exclusive deals. It sucks like a Dyson when all these deals are with one vendor, and is no good to anyone except the one holding all the cards. I'm somehow reminded of a game where you play an old shoe or a hat, and go around a board collecting money everytime you pass go. ;-) Dan In article <pan.2005.04.23.19.31.05.454765@remove.cydermasterdotmedotuk>, > Last year I tried buying some kits from a manufacturer in the States, and > was told that I had to buy from his 'Exclusive European Dealer'. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dan I find such deals work best when the manufacturer refers business to the dealer for "in stock" goods and the consumer is free to buy direct all they want albiet at a high shipping cost. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of a > new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > B The customer > C everyone I think in a small market such as the UK, it's probably a backward step to have exclusives where one vendor, and one vendor only sells a company's product. I would buy and have bought from US rocketry dealers when the dealers in the UK I would use (Rockets and Things, Pete's Rockets, Apo11o) would not have what I want in stock. If I came across a company saying that they would refuse to sell to me because I'm in the UK, and I would have to go through a dealer in the UK that they have an exclusive with (i.e. restricting trade), then that company will lose my business, and I would ensure I would not deal with them in the future. After all, if they won't deal with me, I won't deal with them, I'd take my money elsewhere. Given the amount of money I have spent with some US rocketry companies previously, anybody new I would try and deal with who would do that to me, could lose some fairly large orders from me. As you say, getting good deals is fine, it's not a problem, but restricting trade's a different ballgame entirely, and one of the benefits of our current system in the West, is at least we can vote with out wallets, and take our custom elsewhere! :-) All the best, Richard MARS Flight Crew, http://www.mars.org.uk > > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of > > a [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > previously, anybody new I would try and deal with who would do that to > me, could lose some fairly large orders from me. I assume since it was not stated and since everybody seems to care that it is a motor vendor: Aerotech. > As you say, getting good deals is fine, it's not a problem, but > restricting trade's a different ballgame entirely, And totally common practice in the "closely held, regulated and controlled consumer rocketry field. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > I assume since it was not stated and since everybody seems to >care that > it is a motor vendor: Aerotech. No Jerry. As we can't legally import motors from the US into the UK it's safe to say Aerotech is not being discussed here. The discussion reltates to sales of standard rocketry components and kits that can be bought and shipped legally and relativly cheaply from the US. Damian SignatureDamian Burrin UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO EARS 1115 http://www.ukrocketry.com http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk >> > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part >> > of [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > And totally common practice in the "closely held, regulated and > controlled consumer rocketry field. You mean like model airplane parts? lol sorry, couldnt resist. > > I assume since it was not stated and since everybody seems to >care that > > it is a motor vendor: Aerotech. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > And totally common practice in the "closely held, regulated and > > controlled consumer rocketry field. > > I assume since it was not stated and since everybody seems to >care that > > it is a motor vendor: Aerotech. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to sales of standard rocketry components and kits that can be bought and > shipped legally and relativly cheaply from the US. You didn't take the bait and say who! :) SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> > I assume since it was not stated and since everybody seems to >care >> > that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You didn't take the bait and say who! Jerry, we're talking inert stuff like Hybrid motor casings and reloads, motor retainers, electronics, odd bits and pieces. SignatureNiall Oswald ================================ http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/niall UKRA 1345 EARS 1151 MARS > As you say, getting good deals is fine, it's not a problem, but > restricting trade's a different ballgame entirely, and one of the > benefits of our current system in the West, is at least we can vote > with out wallets, and take our custom elsewhere! :-) Absolutely. Chris SignatureChris Eilbeck MARS Flight Crew http://www.mars.org.uk/ UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of a > new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Damian Its a crazy idea. You're putting all your UK sales in the hands of someone whom you have no control over. They mess up the customer relations and you have no buyers. Dumb might be a better word. Name and shame so we can all write to the supplier and tell them (I'm guessing here) what a crap UK dealer they've picked. SignatureColin MacLaren UKRA #1283 RSO L2 TRA #10249 L2 > Now i'm all for companies trying to get the best deals they can but i have > to admit to feeling a bit niggled when in my opinion i am being restricted > to who i can and cannot buy from. What ever happended to free trade? often the manufacture has to get into such deals to get a dealer overseas to carry their entire line. Unless the dealer is guaranteed to be protected from market predators, then the vendor has no real investment reason to purchase stock from the manufacture. Some manufactures have contracts for built in protection from dealers they sell to as well, to prevent the dealer from price cutting. Common in many markets other then rocketry are "call for price" or Minimum advertised price allowances. everyone must remember that dealers are trying to make an investment and manufactures are in the business of paying their stock holders dividends, even when they are companies of fewer then 2 employees. Thats all very well, but over here we used to have a really good team of guys supplying us our kit and they all got on well and helped each other out and understood when you went to the US for components. Unfortunately times change and in this case in my opinion the change isn't good and is detrimental to UK rocketry, and if US manufacturers don't let us buy direct they will lose out as many of us are prepared to vote with our wallets and not deal with companies that don't put the customer first. > Thats all very well, but over here we used to have a really good team > of guys supplying us our kit and they all got on well and helped each [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to vote with our wallets and not deal with companies that don't put the > customer first. U.S. Rockets certainly will. But UK dealers should still be contacted first if possible, and more to the point, encouraged to carry inventory by having steady LOCAL sales. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of a > new scratch built rocket. > > I have been told by the company that they can't sell to me as i'm in the UK > and they have an exclusive deal with a UK rocketry re-seller that forbids > them from selling to anyone else in the UK. So buy it from the local dealer. What's the problem? > Now i'm all for companies trying to get the best deals they can but i have > to admit to feeling a bit niggled when in my opinion i am being restricted > to who i can and cannot buy from. What ever happended to free trade? Just as you are free to buy from anyone willing to sell you something, manufacturers and dealers are also free to decide how they will market their goods -- including restrictions on sales, if they feel that is in their best interest. A >> I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for >> part of a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So buy it from the local dealer. What's the problem? Would you buy from someone who seeks to control a market? I wouldn't. Chris SignatureChris Eilbeck MARS Flight Crew http://www.mars.org.uk/ UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR > Would you buy from someone who seeks to control a market? I wouldn't. > > Chris In the rocketry trade you have very little choice. There are a couple of "little Hitlers". Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > >> I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for > >> part of a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Would you buy fr om someone who seeks to control a market? I wouldn't. So basically you're saying that the only reason you won't buy it locally is because you don't want to. If that's the case, why are you whining about it? It's your own choice. >> >> I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for >> >> part of a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > locally is because you don't want to. If that's the case, why are > you whining about it? It's your own choice. No, the reason *I* won't buy from Paul Lavin is that I think he's an arsehole and he's doing his level best to f.ck things up for everyone. Chris SignatureChris Eilbeck MARS Flight Crew http://www.mars.org.uk/ UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR > No, the reason *I* won't buy from Paul Lavin is that I think he's an > arsehole and he's doing his level best to f.ck things up for everyone. > > Chris I can read and comprenend THAT! :) SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > So basically you're saying that the only reason you won't buy it > locally is because you don't want to I supose it could be something people on your side of the pond moan about. "Freedom of Choice" Just because as i and others don't want to buy from a particular retailer dosn't mean we don't want to buy the product. Having exclusive deals restricts sales as well as purchase. I would if able buy from other UK retailers there are several. Or if i coose direct from the US. At the moment with a good exchange rate for us purchases can be made from the US even including shipping substantialy cheaper at times than here in the UK. I want to be able to choose where i buy from not be forced into buying from one particular dealer. Damian SignatureDamian Burrin UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO EARS 1115 http://www.ukrocketry.com http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk >> >> I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for >> >> part of a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > locally is because you don't want to. If that's the case, why are you > whining about it? It's your own choice. >So basically you're saying that the only reason you won't buy it >locally is because you don't want to. If that's the case, why are you >whining about it? It's your own choice. Ray, sometimes I wonder about you. > So buy it from the local dealer. What's the problem? What if the 'local dealer' happens to appear intent on denigrating the UK rocketry scene - calling RSO's 'bully boys' then refusing to either substantiate the comment or apologise for it? What if the 'local dealer' appears intent on putting the other UK dealers out of business rather than cooperate? What if the 'local dealer' makes publicly disparaging comments about the organisation whose insurance backs the UKRA? What if the 'local dealer' has deliberately alienated himself and his company from a large number of HPR fliers in the UK? Whose fault is it then that a large number of UK HPR fliers wish to cut out this link in their trade? It's a pity that the majority of UK fliers are so 'reserved' in what's posted on UTR & RMR, otherwise the full story behind what's going on might become clear. Unfortunately, it would appear that anyone who happens to provide an alternative, reality-based version of events where said vendor has been involved is immediately threatened (via a third party) with legal action by said vendor. Long live freedom of speech and trade, huh? G. SignatureGraham J. Platt graham (a) bowhunter (d) demon (d) co (d) uk TRA #10112 L2 > > So buy it from the local dealer. What's the problem? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the 'local dealer' has deliberately alienated himself and his company > from a large number of HPR fliers in the UK? TRA member? IEAS.org > Whose fault is it then that a large number of UK HPR fliers wish to cut > out this link in their trade? Form a "co-op" to ween folks from the dealer? Need help? Seriously. > It's a pity that the majority of UK fliers are so 'reserved' in what's > posted on UTR & RMR, otherwise the full story behind what's going on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > party) with legal action by said vendor. Long live freedom of speech and > trade, huh? Not in this industry! > G. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > TRA member? > > IEAS.org Couldn't comment, I'm afraid. > Form a "co-op" to ween folks from the dealer? Need help? Seriously. Most of us do to get hold of stuff from the US. Thanks for the offer though :-) G. SignatureGraham J. Platt graham (a) bowhunter (d) demon (d) co (d) uk TRA #10112 L2 > > So buy it from the local dealer. What's the problem? > > What if the 'local dealer' happens to appear intent on denigrating the > UK rocketry scene - calling RSO's 'bully boys' then refusing to either > substantiate the comment or apologise for it? What if the 'local dealer' > appears intent on putting the other UK dealers out of business rather > than cooperate? What if the 'local dealer' makes publicly disparaging > comments about the organisation whose insurance backs the UKRA? What if > the 'local dealer' has deliberately alienated himself and his company > from a large number of HPR fliers in the UK? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Unfortunately, it would appear that anyone who > happens to pr ovide an alternative, reality-based version of events where > said vendor has been involved is immediately threatened (via a third > party) with legal action by said vendor. Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby orgs, is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the hobby, and threatens to sue whenever someone states the real facts... Hey Jerry, when did you move to the UK?? ;) If the manufacturer won't ship to you, maybe one of his US dealers will? / > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby > orgs, is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If the manufacturer won't ship to you, maybe one of his US dealers > will? Jerry didn't, but I guess given your antipathy towards Jerry, a good illustration of Damian's point would be if Jerry were to have an exclusive deal on some kit you wanted and the mfr in the UK wouldn't sell to the US except via Jerry. See where most of us are coming from? Except I've dealt with Jerry, and found him to be a decent guy to deal with. YMMV, but that's my experience. No flames, please. G. SignatureGraham J. Platt graham (a) bowhunter (d) demon (d) co (d) uk TRA #10112 L2 > > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby > > orgs, is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > exclusive deal on some kit you wanted and the mfr in the UK wouldn't > sell to the US except via Jerry. See where most of us are coming from? I've bought from Jerry before, and I'd do it again if he had something I wanted that I couldn't get elsewhere. ê > > > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby > > > orgs, is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > ê And then you would have the exact same experience with me I have with tripoli. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >>>>Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby >>>>orgs, is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > And then you would have the exact same experience with me I have with > tripoli. jerry, explain your above statement. > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby orgs, > is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the hobby, > and threatens to sue whenever someone states the real facts... Hey > Jerry, when did you move to the UK?? ;) Not quite. Some people like Jerry :) SignatureColin MacLaren UKRA #1283 RSO L2 TRA #10249 L2 > > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby orgs, > > is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the hobby, > > and threatens to sue whenever someone states the real facts... Hey > > Jerry, when did you move to the UK?? ;) > > Not quite. Some people like Jerry :) So it sounds like this dealer that y'all don't like to deal with makes the bad rumours about Jerry come true... -dave w >> > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby orgs, >> > is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the hobby, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >-dave w That's unusual. Jerry usually takes care of that himself. 8-) > > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby orgs, > > is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the hobby, > > and threatens to sue whenever someone states the real facts... Hey > > Jerry, when did you move to the UK?? ;) > > Not quite. Some people like Jerry :) Those that interact with me anywhere free of rmr noise. That's alot of folks. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 I've never dealt with Jerry but on TRF he seems a reasonable guy and I like the sound of his payment terms - you can't get shafted that way, and it puts paid to some of the flaming of him. Pay up front and you can get shafted - can't say more at the moment. It seems a number of UK fliers have bought direct from Jerry and had exemplary service. Hope you aren't going to get flamed on UTR Jerry. Dave UKRA L1 #1287 > > > Hmm, a dealer who denigrates RSOs and publically disparages hobby orgs, > > > is uncooperative, deliberately alienates everyone else in the hobby, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > That's alot of folks. > I've never dealt with Jerry but on TRF he seems a reasonable guy and I like > the sound of his payment terms - you can't get shafted that way, and it puts [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Hope you aren't going to get flamed on UTR Jerry. I just expect it now and am happy when it DOESN't happen. The attackers follow me around. TRF. :) Copy this memo to them. Jerry > Dave UKRA L1 #1287 > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > That's alot of folks. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > The attackers follow me around. Don't flatter yourself. > TRF. :) > > Copy this memo to them. You were kicked off TRF because you refused to abide by their terms of service. > The attackers follow me around. Hey Jerry - why don't you leave for a few years and see how many follow you. > What if the 'local dealer' happens to appear intent on denigrating the > UK rocketry scene - calling RSO's 'bully boys' then refusing to either [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the 'local dealer' has deliberately alienated himself and his company > from a large number of HPR fliers in the UK? Well, you ay have a locak dealer that's a jerk, and a US manufacturer with an exclusive agreement with them. So bypass both and order from a US dealer that will ship to the UK. I just ordered something that I can get locally but is made in France from an internet dealer in OZ. And regularly order US products from Canadian web vendors. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org ... One nation under surveillance, divisive, with liberty and justice for none. > > What if the 'local dealer' happens to appear intent on denigrating the > > UK rocketry scene - calling RSO's 'bully boys' then refusing to either [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > an exclusive agreement with them. So bypass both and order from a US dealer > that will ship to the UK. :) > I just ordered something that I can get locally but is made in France from > an internet dealer in OZ. And regularly order US products from Canadian [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ... One nation under surveillance, divisive, with liberty and justice for > none. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >Well, you ay have a locak dealer that's a jerk, and a US manufacturer with >an exclusive agreement with them. So bypass both and order from a US dealer >that will ship to the UK. I thought the original point of this thread was that the manufacturer asked dealers in the USA not to ship to the UK? I have no idea if it would be legal for a manufacturer to not ship product to a dealer who violated such a rule. Nobody has really explained yet what advantage a manufacturer gets by having an exclusive dealer in the UK. The dealer gets some advantage by not having any competition. Brian Elfert > >Well, you ay have a locak dealer that's a jerk, and a US manufacturer with > >an exclusive agreement with them. So bypass both and order from a US dealer > >that will ship to the UK. > > I thought the original point of this thread was that the manufacturer > asked dealers in the USA not to ship to the UK? The manufacturer (Pratt) refused to ship direct. Fine. The dealers of the manufacturer in USA were not at issue, and it is unlikely dealers have a contract preventing export. Hence Kaplow's ingenious post. If so, that manufacturer (Pratt) should be shunned (like USR in Tripoli) in the USA, europe, oceania as well as UK. > I have no idea if it would be legal for a manufacturer to not ship product > to a dealer who violated such a rule. > > Nobody has really explained yet what advantage a manufacturer gets by > having an exclusive dealer in the UK. "Hopefully" ganged shipping cost reduction. Key word hopefully. Jerry > The dealer gets some advantage by > not having any competition. > > Brian Elfert P.S. It should be noted Pratt chose an exclusive dealer that the locals HATE with a passion. He should be shunned on bad judgement alone! SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > ... chose an exclusive > dealer that the locals > HATE with a passion. That does seem to be the nuts of the matter, doesn't it... I doubt there would have been any complaint if the local dealer hadn't been unpopular (or caught on the wrong side of a local political feud?) Sounds like we need a British rocketry tabloid reporter or two, to reveal the Ugly Rumours Behind The Truth etc. - it's not clear how many sides this story has. Maybe we're looking at some of the smoking fragments whizzing by from some British equivalent of the Powertech affair? I'm ready to reserve condemnation until I hear more of the juicy parts... -dave w > > ... chose an exclusive > > dealer that the locals [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > fragments whizzing by from some British equivalent of the Powertech > affair? I can certify it is not as ugly no matter how much attention it has achieved ever so briefly on rmr. Note Powertech has dominated the HPR/TRA/rmr/local debates for better than a decade now. With no end in sight. Jerry > I'm ready to reserve condemnation until I hear more of the > juicy parts... > > -dave w SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 > Note Powertech has dominated the HPR/TRA/rmr/local debates for better > than a decade now. > > With no end in sight. Yeah, people who've been defrauded tend to have long memories, especially when the person who defrauded them won't even make good on the court judgement. S >> >Well, you ay have a locak dealer that's a jerk, and a US manufacturer with >> >an exclusive agreement with them. So bypass both and order from a US dealer [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >P.S. It should be noted Pratt chose an exclusive dealer that the locals >HATE with a passion. He should be shunned on bad judgement alone! I'm sure Doug did what he thought was right at the time and was unaware of the problems with that dealer. He is the best dealer I've encountered in rocketry. Knowing him, I think he will try to rectify the situation to everyone's satisfaction. >I'm sure Doug did what he thought was right at the time and was >unaware of the problems with that dealer I have no issue with Doug, i've spoke to him afew times via email and seems a really nice guy. My comment was do exclusive deals such as the one doug has with deepsky benifit or advantage the consumer. Damian SignatureDamian Burrin UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO EARS 1115 http://www.ukrocketry.com http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk >>> >Well, you ay have a locak dealer that's a jerk, and a US manufacturer >>> >with [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > encountered in rocketry. Knowing him, I think he will try to rectify > the situation to everyone's satisfaction. >>I'm sure Doug did what he thought was right at the time and was >>unaware of the problems with that dealer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Damian It might benefit consumers that don't hate that particular dealer. Sometimes dealers get an exclusive territory to make sure it's worth the effort and expense of stocking an item. Otherwise, it's possible that no one will stock the product. > P.S. It should be noted Pratt chose an exclusive dealer that the locals > HATE with a passion. He should be shunned on bad judgement alone! As usual, you run off at the mouth without engaging your brain. How was the manufacturer supposed to know that the dealer would end up being so unpopular? No one has said anything about it until now. E >> P.S. It should be noted Pratt chose an exclusive dealer that the >locals [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >E Imagine if someone did what Jerry suggested with his tube manufacturer. 8-) > > P.S. It should be noted Pratt chose an exclusive dealer that the > locals [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the manufacturer supposed to know that the dealer would end up being so > unpopular? Key word end-up? No. Key word long-since. :) > No one has said anything about it until now. > > E SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 As much as I hate to enter a thread with Jerry in it (which is almost all of them these days) I want to make a point. I was perfectly aware that Paul Lavin of Deepsky was not universally beloved when I entered into a business relationship with him. I spent three days with him, months ago, before we did anything formal business-wise. I have since conducted quite a bit of business with Paul. Nothing in any of that experience has led me to question his character or honesty. He has my complete confidence. Shipping orders overseas can be a colossal pain. Having one point of distribution greatly simplifies the process and saves me a lot of money, time and grief. Before anyone questions my judgement, let me ask you how you get from two or three disgruntled posters to "dealer that the locals hate with a passion." Especially when that comment comes from someone whose public statements have often turned out to be, shall we say, somewhat questionable. Thank you, people, for the confidence you've expressed in me and in Pratt Hobbies. If that reputation gets tarnished in the future, I can assure you it'll be because of my screw-up, not someone else's...and not Paul's. Doug Pratt dad-at-pratthobbies-dot-com > > P.S. It should be noted Pratt chose an exclusive dealer that the > locals [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > E > Before anyone questions my judgement, let me ask you how you get from > two or three disgruntled posters to "dealer that the locals hate with a > passion." Especially when that comment comes from someone whose public > statements have often turned out to be, shall we say, somewhat > questionable. I'm not sure 'hate with a passion' is the correct phrase. Most of us prefer to expend our energies on other things rather than hating, and stick to merely 'disliking' or plain and simple not dealing with the UK company in question, even though many of us did trade with the same company under previous ownership. Perhaps the reserved comments and the preference to just walk away from the situation despite repeated provocation are English traits we use well. To address a question posed in an earlier message by Dave W, regarding what has been going on over here, trust me that the opinions voiced do have extremely good foundation, but none of us over here really want to have to deal with vexatious litigation for telling it as it is. Maybe one day, but I'm sure nobody across here who's been involved will put anything in writing until everything has been fully checked out by real lawyers and cleared as merely a true representation of events (based on extant documentation and signed affadavits) and not the basis for any form of legal action. As the situation stands currently, until a contentious but non-litigious document has been agreed with lawyers for publication, you'll have to bear with us while we walk away from provocations. > Thank you, people, for the confidence you've expressed in me and in > Pratt Hobbies. Thanks for supplying good kit Doug, and direct service pre-all-this was absolutely second to none too. G. SignatureGraham J. Platt graham (a) bowhunter (d) demon (d) co (d) uk TRA #10112 L2 >> Before anyone questions my judgement, let me ask you how you get from >> two or three disgruntled posters to "dealer that the locals hate with a [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >G. It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget about it. It might not work every time but it does sometimes. 8-) > It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to > get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget > about it. It might not work every time but it does sometimes. 8-) LOL!! Nice idea Phil, but I'd have serious reservations about some of the involved parties being mixed together in a confined space.. You familiar with the word 'hypergolic' ? ;-) G. SignatureGraham J. Platt graham (a) bowhunter (d) demon (d) co (d) uk TRA #10112 L2 >> It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to >> get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >G. I thought you guys had better self control than that. AT least you don't have to worry about someone carrying a gun. 8-) > >> It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to > >> get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I thought you guys had better self control than that. AT least you > don't have to worry about someone carrying a gun. 8-) But they can have as much 0276 as they want. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> >> It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to >> >> get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >But they can have as much 0276 as they want. 0275 SignatureDarren J Longhorn http://www.geocities.com/darrenlonghorn/ NSRG #005 http://www.northstarrocketry.org.uk/ UKRA #1094 L2 RSO http://www.ukra.org.uk/ > >> >> It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to > >> >> get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 0275 Can you bury me in 0275 and light it faster than I can draw a gun and fire? :) SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> >> >> It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to >> >> >> get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >:) I don't know, how fast is your propelling pencil? SignatureDarren J Longhorn http://www.geocities.com/darrenlonghorn/ NSRG #005 http://www.northstarrocketry.org.uk/ UKRA #1094 L2 RSO http://www.ukra.org.uk/ > >> >> >> It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to > >> >> >> get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > I don't know, how fast is your propelling pencil? Touche SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >> >> >> It might help if you guys just stand there and yell at each other to >> >> >> get it out of your systems. Then you can just walk away & forget [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >:) That probably depends on the time of day. 8-) Baby with bathwater aurguement warning: > Before anyone questions my judgement, let me ask you how you get from > two or three disgruntled posters to "dealer that the locals hate with a > passion." Especially when that comment comes from someone whose public > statements have often turned out to be, shall we say, somewhat > questionable. 1. Ananecdotal sample of folks say "many" dislike him with a "passion". That's how. Are they universally representative? I dunno. But THEY seem to think so based on "multiple contacts in multiple clubs". So on your above theory I bet you coauld find a wide sampling of folks who dislike me based on rmr translated rep alone. But deal with only customers and you get a polar opposite view. Hence why rmr is bash alone. It is not representative of reality. You are leading the way. I do not think there was ever a claim the relationship between Pratt and Levin was strained, just the spokes of the wheel eminating from there. Personally I wish "we could just all get along." > Thank you, people, for the confidence you've expressed in me and in > Pratt Hobbies. If that reputation gets tarnished in the future, I can [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > E SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration. (too late) Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/6wlp8 >I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of >a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Please keep comments on the topic and do not turn this into a flame war > about any particular US/UK dealers or flyers please. Just to add my bit, I have recently placed and recieved orders from several overseas dealers - WCH, AeroPack, Commonwealth Displays, AeroSleeves, PML and Aerocon. In one case I had to explain why I was unhappy going to the 'official' UK dealer for a product I wanted, but other than that all of the companies I have ordered from have had no issue with selling direct to me. I can particularly recommend AeroPack direct sales - shipping is $6 (a bit more than 3 quid) from the states, takes 5 days and when you factor in the exhange rate... :) The way I see it is that since rocketry is a niche market, few small companies are going to refuse your money! SignatureNiall Oswald ================================ http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/niall UKRA 1345 EARS 1151 MARS > The way I see it is that since rocketry is a niche market, few small > companies are going to refuse your money! Pity not all dealers feel the same way <CONTENT FROM EMAIL? Deepsky is my exclusive distributor in the UK and Europe, and I'm not going to violate the agreement. I've never had cause to regret dealing with him. Right now I don't have any American dealers with GO Boxes in stock but if you're ordering from one you could ask him if he's willing to get one. Doug Pratt www.pratthobbies.com </END CONTENT> SignatureDamian Burrin UKRA 1159 Level 2 RSO EARS 1115 http://www.ukrocketry.com http://www.larf-rocketry.co.uk >>I was trying to order some bits and bobs from the US recently for part of >>a new scratch built rocket. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > The way I see it is that since rocketry is a niche market, few small > companies are going to refuse your money! Sure puts the manufacturer between a rock and a hard place, if the distributor with whom he's made an "exclusive" agreement turns out to be someone that the potential customers would rather not deal with! -dave w > > The way I see it is that since rocketry is a niche market, few small > > companies are going to refuse your money! [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > EARS 1151 > > MARS > Sure puts the manufacturer between a > rock and a hard place, if the distributor [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -dave w Got it in one. Manufacturers need to be careful that the distributors don't damage "their" reputation with poor customer service. People tend to hold grudges for a long time. SignatureColin MacLaren UKRA #1283 RSO L2 TRA #10249 L2 > Sure puts the manufacturer between a > rock and a hard place, if the distributor > with whom he's made an "exclusive" agreement > turns out to be someone that the potential > customers would rather not deal with! I agree, especially when an "exclusive" agreement is the only way to get a dealer to carry the product. |
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