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lightnpyro@yahoo.com - 20 Nov 2005 01:39 GMT ....from rec.pyrotechnics.....
When Worlds of Creation and Destruction Collide By MALCOLM W. BROWNE New York Times 5v99
His diary entry for one day in 1898 read: "Fired cannon, pop and firecrackers all day. in evening had five sky rockets, three Roman candles, one large pinwheel and a Japanese match which I made."
The words were not those of a vengeful delinquent planning a schoolyard
massacre; they were written by a 15-year-old Robert Hutchings Goddard, whose later inventions - liquid rocket fuel, multistage vehicles and rocket gyrostabilizers, among them - opened the way to space travel.
One wonders what would have befallen space science if Goddard and a host of youthful experimenters had been denied access to the very things legislators and others these days are seeking to ban. The fact is, many young people have been drawn to careers in science and engineering partly by spectacular chemical reactions, especially explosions.
Recent school killings have prompted calls for banning almost every potential weapon from flint knives to nuclear bombs. (Somehow the automobile is never included.) But to ban all dangerous substances would be a tall order.
There has never been any lack of explosive materials, and explosives have proliferated at a tremendous rate over the years. A dictionary of explosives in 1900 contained 1,091 entries, whereas the current tally of "satisfactory" explosives (according to an expert at Los Alamos National Laboratory) is about 20,000.
There are those who would favor outlawing all 20,000 of them if it meant keeping children safe. But it's worth remembering that at least some explosives are vital to modern civilization; explosives are needed for mining, building roads, digging foundations, welding pipelines and railroad tracks, actuating automobile air bags, sending rockets to Mars and simulating conditions deep within the atmospheres of giant planets, among countless other thmigs.
During my own childhood in the 1930's and 1940's, dangerous chemicals including explosives and poisons were easy to come by, and yet I cannot
remember a single incident comparable to the disaster in Littleton, Colo., and other recent killings.
Not that kids didn't experiment and play dangerous tricks.
Firearms and explosives (including fireworks) invite mischief, but in the past it was usually of a fairly harmless kind. Farm children of a more relaxed generation than the present one used to annoy dairymen by detonating sticks of dynamite under empty 20-gallon milk cans, sending the cans sailing into the sky. College students delighted in flushing lighted firecrackers down dormitory toilets, causing fountains to erupt from toilets on lower floors. Mild but startling explosions caused by ammonia-moistened iodine crystals scattered around lab benches enlivened many a chemistry class.
Recreational explosions are not necessarily dangerous. Since 1912, the Conestoga Company of Bethlehem, Pa., has been making and selling acetylene cannons that delight children with satisfying bangs free of any risk of injury. But fireworks containing explosive or propellant charges are not harmless; every year children lose fingers or eyes by holding lighted firecrackers or rockets. Moreover, fireworks can be put to criminal purposes. Most of the pipe bombs that have figured in recent terror incidents have been filled with aluminum powder and oxidizers extracted from ordinary firecrackers.
Naturally, people are eager to prevent massacres. The response has been an effort to prevent the trafficking in explosives and guns, and to somehow reprogram children with violent proclivities.
Snuffing out the fire of genius for fear of a few psychopaths. Fireworks are banned (or limited to relatively innocuous pyrotechnic products like sparklers) in 16 states, and each year sees new legislation to prevent substances like ammonium nitrate fertilizer from falling into felonious hands. The sale of old-fashioned black powder, the propellant needed for firing antique weapons, has been sharply curtailed because it has been used in homemade bombs.
As the trend continues, government agencies have also constrained the sale of chemicals so tightly that it is difficult or impossible for most young students to buy them.
Until 1957, when it moved to New Jersey to provide chemicals and apparatus exclusively to manufacturers, the Ace Scientific Supply Company on 11h Street, Manhattan, used to count many neighborhood high school students among its customers. A thicket of regulations eventually blocked such sales, but the com- pany's president, Robert L. Lowenstein, remembered his student customers fondly.
"Many of those young customers made important contributions to science and are now research directors," Mr. Lowenstein said. "I wish something could be done to make chemicals and apparatus more available to students, but I can't see anyway."
Similar regrets are often expressed by older teachers.
Dr. David Weitzman, a professor of biochemistry at the University of Bath, England, wrote in the New Scientist nearly two decades ago that although he had accepted the chairmanship of his university's safety panel, the reduction of laboratory risks had had its down side.
"In the laboratories, we forbid this, don't allow that, and prevent the other ... and we're all safer and less at risk of harm and hazard. Most commendable," he wrote. "But have we, at the same time, removed some of the fun and excitement of laboratory life, the thrill of experimenting with the unknown?"
Dr. Weitzman described some of the risky experiments and procedures once common in student laboratories, including a very hazardous method for cleaning flasks by filling them with an explosive mixture of nitric acid and alcohol.
"These encounters conveyed a sense of intimacy with one's chemical materials," he wrote. "One saw reagents and reactions at their most angry and violent and, having done so, one learnt to tame them and discipline them to do one's own bidding."
He concluded that "perhaps just a little bit of danger might bring a lot more fun and lead to more insight and understanding."
Banning several thousand chemicals as well as timers, pipes, epoxy glue and other items that can be combined as bombs would be one approach to denying bombs to potential criminals. Another would be the reprogramming of violence-prone people to eliminate aggressive impulses; it might be done with psychotherapy, chemical castration or brain surgery.
By selective breeding or gene manipulation, traits associated with aggressive behavior and the creation of sociopaths might be reduced throughout the world, spawning the most well-behaved human race the world has ever seen. A similar result has been achieved in Siberia, where fur breeders have invented a com- pletely docile breed of silver fox -one that licks its keepers' faces while being prepared for slaughter.
But must we really squelch all the things that can contribute to anti-social behavior to protect ourselves from a handful of sociopaths?
Could an aggression-free race produce a Jefferson or Beethoven or Einstein? As we race to eliminate aggressors and their weapons, should we not take care to avoid throwing out the baby with the bath water?
tai fu - 20 Nov 2005 02:51 GMT It is not the intention of those in authority to insure that people are getting smarter. In fact what they are trying to do is turn every citizens into mindless idiots. They do not like the idea that some kid can experiment with dangerous stuff and become a great scientist. The reason Pol pot killed 3 million of his citizen is because he wanted all the smart people eliminated and everyone else to work in labor camps. I think that is what our government want to do. They do not want people to become scientists, but rather they want people to become subjects. They did not ban chemicals and stuff to prevent violence, they did it because they didn't want any chance of resistence, and also make sure people do what the government says.
You can be sure things will get worse before they get better...
lunarlosREMOVE2EMAIL@juno.com - 21 Nov 2005 21:30 GMT Mr. Fu,
Interesting posting. In revolutions, it's the 'intelligencia' that gets executed first. Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, and all the monsters of humanity get to the top, and eliminate anyone who could cause trouble. Yes, you are correct.
Status Quo ... yes, those in power do what they can to attain then stay in power.
I do feel that the 'dumbing down' of America (not living in Taiwan) is a multi-facetted attack. It would be easy to say that the 'MAN' or the 'Government' is dumbing down the U.S. population, but its not that simple.
The main reason for school children graduating high school and college today with MUCH weaker skill sets then previous generations is our present pop-culture. Tai, in Asia, education is valued more than in the U.S. I can speak of Japan as I am very familiar with it and its culture. As a rule, we here in the U.S. make fun of people with IQs of 140+. Geeks, nerds, spas are the monickers assigned to people who are born gifted and/or work hard to learn. If a college degree were viewed with the same excitement as Terrell Owens catching a nude 'desperate housewife' in his arms, the colleges would explode in population. Just think, a woman goes to Cal Tech and majors is low temperature physics. She graduates Cum Laude. Now who do you think is going to get more attention in this world: Paris Hilton who spreads her pantiless legs for the cameras or our graduate student ...
Now the next major factor to the dumbing down of U.S. Citizens is the National Education Association. Here you have administrators, principles, and teachers who are Far Far Far more concerned about holidays, bonuses, job security, and getting the 'RIGHT' person elected in Washington, then they are in educating the public. Then when they finally get around to educating the students, it's from a leftist agenda that is almost certain to fail in REAL life.
The last thing would be drug and alcohol abuse. This ruins people lives and dreams. This can also be used as a cultural weapon. One way of controlling people is by placing a liquor store every other block in their 'hoods'. Another would be giving the native people 'fire water' to keep them drunk on their reservations. Another way is to control people with opium as was done in China by the British.
So in closing, I don't think its one entity that leads a society into a morass, but attacks on that society by different parts of that society's anti-culture.
Should an eight year old be playing with explosives ... NO! Should an eight year old who has the mental aptitude to understand and learn, be formerly schooled in the science of explosions, YES.
Doug Sams - 21 Nov 2005 21:40 GMT > it's the 'intelligencia' <smile>
Lunar,
You name didn't used to be Jonathon Dunbar, did it?
Doug
hiltyt@weinerboy.org - 21 Nov 2005 22:03 GMT >> it's the 'intelligencia' > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You name didn't used to be Jonathon Dunbar, did it? GAAAAAA!!!
RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!
<g>
tah
--
Tod A. Hilty Hilty Information Systems
Do not look in the direction of the flash... Curl up in a ball as you hit the ground...
CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent of 85 Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight
Please replace weinerboy dot org with adelphia dot net for reply.
Greg Heilers - 21 Nov 2005 22:27 GMT >> it's the 'intelligencia' > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Doug "John Dunbar"? The Kevin Costner character from one of the most boring movies ever made?.....
 Signature Greg Heilers Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.1 (2.6.10) .....
As far as anyone knows we're a nice, normal family.
-- Homer Simpson There's No Disgrace Like Home
hiltyt@weinerboy.org - 21 Nov 2005 22:59 GMT >>> it's the 'intelligencia' >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >"John Dunbar"? The Kevin Costner character from one of the most boring >movies ever made?..... Oh god...
And awwwwaaaaayyy we go!
<g>
tah
--
Tod A. Hilty Hilty Information Systems
Do not look in the direction of the flash... Curl up in a ball as you hit the ground...
CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent of 85 Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight
Please replace weinerboy dot org with adelphia dot net for reply.
randyolb@charter.net - 21 Nov 2005 23:37 GMT > Oh god... > And awwwwaaaaayyy we go! Uh oh! Tod's gone from channeling Paul Lar vae to jackie Gleason. Rod Serling can't be far behind.
Randy www.vernarockets.com
hiltyt@weinerboy.org - 21 Nov 2005 23:50 GMT >> Oh god... >> And awwwwaaaaayyy we go! > >Uh oh! Tod's gone from channeling Paul Lar vae to jackie Gleason. Rod >Serling can't be far behind. It may be said with a degree of assurance that not everything that meets the eye is as it appears.
Huh? What? Where am I?
<g>
tah
--
Tod A. Hilty Hilty Information Systems
Do not look in the direction of the flash... Curl up in a ball as you hit the ground...
CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent of 85 Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight
Please replace weinerboy dot org with adelphia dot net for reply.
hiltyt@weinerboy.org - 22 Nov 2005 00:05 GMT >> Oh god... >> And awwwwaaaaayyy we go! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Randy >www.vernarockets.com "The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs, and explosions, and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, ideas, predjudices, to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, predjudices can kill and suspicion can destroy. A thoughtless, freightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all it's own for the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is, is that these things can not be confined to the Twilight Zone."
Ah, crap! Make it stop.. MAKE IT STOP!
<vbg>
Tod "Gonna try Mel Torme" Hilty
--
Tod A. Hilty Hilty Information Systems
Do not look in the direction of the flash... Curl up in a ball as you hit the ground...
CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent of 85 Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight
Please replace weinerboy dot org with adelphia dot net for reply.
randyolb@charter.net - 22 Nov 2005 01:41 GMT > Ah, crap! Make it stop.. MAKE IT STOP! (With David Lee Roth fading as he sings California Girls in the background)
For you, the viewer, this is the end of the video.... but for them, it's only, the beginning..........
(Hey! Hey! Girls! Wish they allllll could be California girls......)
Randy www.vernarockets.com
lunarlosREMOVE2EMAIL@juno.com - 22 Nov 2005 20:24 GMT Nope, but I wish as I would be worth a hell of alot more money if I was! :)
tai fu - 22 Nov 2005 02:44 GMT In Taiwan chemical shops (and glassware) are everywhere, often times its just a matter of handing over the cash and walking out with the stuff. And some dangerous ones too (like Iodine, Pot. Permaginate, and things like that... stuff you can get into alot of trouble for even thinking about having in the USA)
Josephfromri@yahoo.com - 25 Nov 2005 15:22 GMT >....from rec.pyrotechnics..... > [quoted text clipped - 205 lines] >care to >avoid throwing out the baby with the bath water? Sir: Why don't you take your facist filth, and post it to another news group?
Mark Hamilton - 27 Nov 2005 16:31 GMT >>....from rec.pyrotechnics..... >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>pinwheel >>and a Japanese match which I made." <snip>
> Sir: Why don't you take your facist filth, and post it to another news > group? Actually I thought it was a good article up until the last four paragraphs, and it may be that those were simply an example of reductio ad absurdum (if I remember my years-ago logic class correctly.)
And anyway, if you were so opposed to it why did you quote the entire article for a one line response?
Mark E. Hamilton NAR #48641-SR ARSA #418
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