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Converting Newton/secs into pounds of thrust

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CouldBeFlying - 26 Nov 2005 14:47 GMT
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could help me (show me how to) convert  newtons
into pounds of thrust. For instance an Estes "C" produces 10 Newton seconds
of thrust... What would this be in pounds of thrust? Is there a formula, can
I assume?

Thanks everyone
Richard
David - 26 Nov 2005 15:10 GMT
Divide Newtons by 4.5.

-- David
> Hello,
> I was wondering if anyone could help me (show me how to) convert  newtons
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks everyone
> Richard
Will Marchant - 26 Nov 2005 15:42 GMT
Correct, convert Newtons to pounds force by dividing by 4.45.

But, I think he may be confused about the total impulse implied by a "C"
motor and the average thrust, designated by the number after the total
impulse letter.

Estes has a C6 and C11 motors, both of which Estes rates at 10
Newton-seconds total impulse.  The C6 has an average thrust of 6
Newtons.  The C11 has an average thrust of 11 Newtons.  Dividing average
thrust by 4.45 you get average thrust of 1.3 and 2.5 pounds respectively.
    Happy holidays,
    Will

> Divide Newtons by 4.5.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>Thanks everyone
>>Richard

Signature

Will Marchant, NAR 13356, Tripoli 10125 L3
kc6rol@amsat.org     http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will/

CouldBeFlying - 26 Nov 2005 16:17 GMT
Thanks guys.... this really helps. I guess what I am after then is total
thrust an engine produces from start to finish...
Am I right in assuming... ("C" and "D" engine comparisons) total thrust in
this example?

Can I assume this is correct for getting total thrust?

"C"... 10/4.45=2.247 Total thrust (lbf)
"D"... 20/4.45=4.494 Total thrust (lbf)

Richard

> Correct, convert Newtons to pounds force by dividing by 4.45.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>>Thanks everyone
>>>Richard
Will Marchant - 26 Nov 2005 16:47 GMT
Hi Richard:
Happy to be of help.  I think your examples are OK, but you end up with
pound-seconds, it isn't just pounds.  The "total impulse" is basically
how much "work" the motor can do.  That is the thrust times how long the
motor is thrusting.    Which is why you end up with "pound x seconds" as
the unit of total impulse.
    Best wishes,
    Will

> Thanks guys.... this really helps. I guess what I am after then is total
> thrust an engine produces from start to finish...
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>>>>Thanks everyone
>>>>Richard

Signature

Will Marchant, NAR 13356, Tripoli 10125 L3
kc6rol@amsat.org     http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will/

Jim - 27 Nov 2005 17:26 GMT
Check out www.thrustcurve.org for lots of good information. It should have
everything you need

> Thanks guys.... this really helps. I guess what I am after then is total
> thrust an engine produces from start to finish...
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> > Will Marchant, NAR 13356, Tripoli 10125 L3
> > kc6rol@amsat.org     http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will/
Fred Shecter - 26 Nov 2005 20:47 GMT
You need to look at the thrust curves and other data on the NAR website.
This will help clarify the difference between "thrust coming out of the
motor at any given point in time" vs. the "total impulse delivered by the
motor over the entire burn".

The letter class of the motor is only the POSSIBLE total impulse range *if*
they packed the motor to the maximum allowed in that class. You can have a D
motor that is *not* a "full" D (like the Estes D12). Look at the NAR data
for various Aerotech D motors for a good comparison. Many are a full 20
Newton-seconds of total impulse, but some burn slower with a lower thrust
level for a longer time, while others burn faster with a higher thrust level
for a shorter time. That is why the number after the letter is important: it
tells you the average thrust in Newtons. Divide that number by 4.45 to get
the average thrust in pounds.

BUT you should also look at the curve, since many motors have large
variation in thrust over time, and the initial peak thrust is also very
important to get the rocket off the launch rod fast enough to fly stable.
Compare many curves on many motors to see the wide variety available.

Heck, look at the not-so-subtle differences between the D12 and D11 and the
C11 and E9 from Estes. They get the differences with different nozzle
diameters and different counterbore depths.

Signature

-Fred Shecter
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> Correct, convert Newtons to pounds force by dividing by 4.45.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>>Thanks everyone
>>>Richard
Jerry Irvine - 27 Nov 2005 02:06 GMT
> You need to look at the thrust curves and other data on the NAR website.
> This will help clarify the difference between "thrust coming out of the
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> C11 and E9 from Estes. They get the differences with different nozzle
> diameters and different counterbore depths.

This should be in the FAQ.

> > Correct, convert Newtons to pounds force by dividing by 4.45.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >>>Thanks everyone
> >>>Richard

Signature

Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net>
Please bring GROWTH back to consumer rocketry.
Produce then publish.  http://www.usrockets.com

 
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