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Model Forum / General / Rockets / December 2005GOT MAGAZINE?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1424214 Gee, no comments. -Fred Shecter NAR 20117 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZshreadvector >> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1424214 Then wrote: > Gee, no comments. Yeah, I expected more, too. But I guess the ID thread is sucking up everyone's attention. I read the article. My first thought was that this could lead to tightening of enforcement of the explosives laws resulting in non-explosive propellants getting mroe scrutiny or worse. And the sad irony is that if the BATFEces would worry about the real explosives and forget about us, then maybe this wouldn't have happened, eh? That said, I caught a snippet on the radio this morning but didn't get the details...did they recover the stolen stuff? Doug My first thought - after reading about the sheets of explosives - Keep those cards and letters coming, folks! >>>http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1424214 > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Doug All the explosives have been recovered, and four bozos arrested. One other is still on the run, but I expect that he won't last long. Amazing what a $50,000 reward offer can do. Mark E. Hamilton NAR #48641-SR ARSA #418 >>>http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1424214 > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Doug All the explosives have been recovered, and four bozos arrested. One other is still on the run, but I expect that he won't last long. Amazing what a $50,000 reward offer can do. Mark E. Hamilton NAR #48641-SR ARSA #418 > Gee, no comments. OK, here's one: "No guards and no security cameras." Bright. Darwin Award for Mr. Cherry, perhaps? Mayhaps the thieves will build a "Cherry" bomb. >> Gee, no comments. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Darwin Award for Mr. Cherry, perhaps? GAAAAA! DON'T USE THAT WORD!!!! <vbg> tah -- Tod A. Hilty Hilty Information Systems Do not look in the direction of the flash... Curl up in a ball as you hit the ground... CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent of 85 Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight Please replace weinerboy dot org with adelphia dot net for reply. >>>Gee, no comments. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > tah What? You don't like the word, perhaps? Perhaps perhaps perhaps! >>Gee, no comments. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mayhaps the thieves will build a "Cherry" bomb. The federal explosives laws pretty much require that storage be located in remote locations. They also only require weekly inspections. The locks are supposed to keep the site secure. The existing federal regulations probably eliminate about 99% of thefts. As anyone can tell you, there is a law of diminishing returns on just about anything. Controlling that last 1% will cost far more than controlling the first 99%. To get an idea of the extreme other end of the spectrum, take a look at the newly enacted (without any opportunity for comment) regulations in Pennsylvania. (Look at the news items at http://www.ime.org ) These new regulations will result in enormous costs to the industry with little impact on thefts.  SignatureDavid W. Schultz http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz/ "Ahh Fuji! Why is it always monkeys? Why couldn't I be attacked by crazed super models?" - Ron Stoppable > The federal explosives laws pretty much require that storage be located > in remote locations. They also only require weekly inspections. The > locks are supposed to keep the site secure. The existing federal > regulations probably eliminate about 99% of thefts. As anyone can tell > you, there is a law of diminishing returns on just about anything. > Controlling that last 1% will cost far more than controlling the first 99%. Better than that, the BATFE sells their mailing list to junk mailers. I get a handful of junk mail from my LEUP every year. Most of it is either fireworks or gun catalogs. But I once got a "job offer" to be a security guard for a local armored car company, and around Y2K got several survivalist catalogs. So if any one actually wants to steal explosives, all they have to do is buy the mailing list, and they know exactly where to go to steal all the explosives they need. All thanks to our own inept government over-regulation. SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, except to encourage attendance in Christian churches; or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, except to require prayer in schools; or abridging the freedom of speech, except for those questioning the Bush administration; or of the press, except that not owned by Rupert Murdoch; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, except those protesting pre-emptive wars; and to petition the government for a redress of grievance, except those we don't like." -former U.S. Sen. Gary Hart > "No guards and no security cameras." > Bright. There is nothing in the regs that require either. And my LEUP requires that I store my "regulated" materials in a LESS secure manner than the way I store my Questes type motors. SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, except to encourage attendance in Christian churches; or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, except to require prayer in schools; or abridging the freedom of speech, except for those questioning the Bush administration; or of the press, except that not owned by Rupert Murdoch; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, except those protesting pre-emptive wars; and to petition the government for a redress of grievance, except those we don't like." -former U.S. Sen. Gary Hart > > "No guards and no security cameras." > > Bright. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -- Yes, but there's a difference between what the law requires and what is just "good practice". I think I'd like to at least have security cameras. They don't cost a whole lot, either. Hell, even the local junk yard has security cams. The bit about ATFE selling mailing lists is troublesome, to put it mildly. > The bit about ATFE selling mailing lists is troublesome, to put it > mildly. Yes, if it were proven to be true it would be even more troublesome. All we have now though is the supposition from one poster that it has occured. Nobody else has reported the same type of unsolicited mail. That, and the poster is very outspoken about his negative feelings toward the government. I'm not saying it isn't true. I guess it could be. But I'm not saying it's true, or even probably so, based upon the postings of one anti-government crusader. We've seen no proof or even credible evidence to back the claims. steve > Yes, if it were proven to be true it would be even more troublesome. > All we have now though is the supposition from one poster that it has > occured. Nobody else has reported the same type of unsolicited mail. > That, and the poster is very outspoken about his negative feelings > toward the government. Since I moved to our "new" house in 1990, I've coded my name and address every time I give it to anyone. There's a unique piece of information in every one, so I can tell when someone sells my name and address. I tell companies that I deal with to NOT do so, and stop doing business with them when they violate my privacy. A few years later, I was able to help a magazine prove that a competitor had stolen their mailing list. My ATF application contained one of those unique encodings. It's on my LEUP. And it's on several of those catalogs I mentioned. So it's not a guess, it's a FACT that names and addresses collected from LEUP holders are sold to mass mailers. And it's still going on in the post-911 era. SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Vulcans believe peace should not depend on force. -- Amanda, "Journey to Babel," stardate 3842.3 I thought this was answered before and someone pointed out that they were not "sold", but part of the public record that anyone can go and search, get, use. Just like property records when you own a house. Signature"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply. >> Yes, if it were proven to be true it would be even more troublesome. >> All we have now though is the supposition from one poster that it has [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > a FACT that names and addresses collected from LEUP holders are sold to mass > mailers. And it's still going on in the post-911 era. > > Yes, if it were proven to be true it would be even more troublesome. > > All we have now though is the supposition from one poster that it has [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > companies that I deal with to NOT do so, and stop doing business with them > when they violate my privacy. So are you going to stop doing business with the ATF? > A few years later, I was able to help a magazine prove that a competitor had > stolen their mailing list. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a FACT that names and addresses collected from LEUP holders are sold to mass > mailers. And it's still going on in the post-911 era. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring GROWTH back to consumer rocketry. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com > So are you going to stop doing business with the ATF? As soon as we wi the lawsuit... SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Vulcans believe peace should not depend on force. -- Amanda, "Journey to Babel," stardate 3842.3 > > So are you going to stop doing business with the ATF? > > As soon as we wi the lawsuit... It's stupid to wait. Look at how AT and Magnum suffered for their illegal designation of exempt goods as "restricted access". Look further how the HPR market "population" has shrunk 90-95%. And AT thinks some hobby industry co-op ads will solve this INTERNAL problem? The LAW is on our side NOW. Live life NOW. Gees. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring GROWTH back to consumer rocketry. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com >>>So are you going to stop doing business with the ATF? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Gees. jerry, you must be very lonely as a felon, who cannot legally possess HPR motors and propellant. Maybe you should take up another hobby, say, model airplanes or something. > jerry, you must be very lonely You have no life. Say merry christmas to your kids for me. SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring GROWTH back to consumer rocketry. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com >> jerry, you must be very lonely > >You have no life. > >Say merry christmas to your kids for me. rmr has been much nicer without this crap. How about you two take this off line and have a nice holiday. >>jerry, you must be very lonely > > You have no life. > > Say merry christmas to your kids for me. Hey jerry, maybe if you're really, really good for the rest of today and for all of tomorrow, for Christmas, Santa will give you what's coming to... er, I mean you'll get what you deserve... um... well I'm sure Santa will bring you something. Maybe, if you're really, really, really good. > >>>So are you going to stop doing business with the ATF? > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Maybe you should take up another hobby, say, model airplanes or something. No one will allow Jerry to ship anything marked as "MODEL AIRPLANE PARTS", so I hear.(:-) > The LAW is on our side NOW. Live life NOW. > > Gees. > > Jerry Irvine Are you living the life Jerry?? Do you have more model airplane parts to ship??(:-) >>The bit about ATFE selling mailing lists is troublesome, to put it >>mildly. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > steve I have also received unexplained mail. I received a political fund raising mailing from New York (emergency defeat some evil liberal sort of nonsense). Since the Republican party has no way of knowing who I am (Texas does not require you to declare a party affiliation when you register and I have never voted in the Republican primary.), this was very odd. The state of Oklahoma mailing me a copy of their brand new state explosives law almost makes sense but they had to get the address from the ATF. The latest was a fireworks catalog from a company I had never heard of. Considering I have never so much as purchased a sparkler at a fireworks stand, this was odd. Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :-) SignatureDavid W. Schultz http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz/ "Ahh Fuji! Why is it always monkeys? Why couldn't I be attacked by crazed super models?" - Ron Stoppable > > The bit about ATFE selling mailing lists is troublesome, to put it > > mildly. > > Yes, if it were proven to be true it would be even more troublesome. I can confirm it as well and the last 3-4 times this was brought up it was confirmed by several folks. It is a fact. Your senseless post aside. > All we have now though is the supposition from one poster that it has > occured. Nobody else has reported the same type of unsolicited mail. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm not saying it isn't true. I guess it could be. But I'm not saying > it's true, or even probably so, So why post this dribble? > based upon the postings of one > anti-government crusader. We've seen no proof or even credible > evidence to back the claims. > > steve SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring GROWTH back to consumer rocketry. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com > Gee, no comments. > > -Fred Shecter NAR 20117 > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZshreadvector The ATF should be concerned with people who store that kind of stuff and leave the model rocket people alone. Only people who would steal rocket engines would be "evil" rocketeers who would use them up themselves. Wouldn't make a very good explosive device but I expect C4 would. :) Kurt Savegnago |
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