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Enough Already!!!

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Bob Kaplow - 15 Jan 2006 16:26 GMT
There are a handful of threads that have been running here since before
Christmas, started by flamers that don't give a @%^#* about these
newsgroups. You know the ones, with upper case words in the title, or
attacking one person.

PLEASE stop replying to them, and ABSOLUTELY stop replying to them and cross
posting them to 5 other newsgroups.

HITLER!

Signature

 Bob Kaplow   NAR # 18L   >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
   www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org

       The problem with governments is that citizens need to keep
       them on a short leash; unfortunately the nature of the beast
       is such that governments can usually arrange it so that only
       they hold their own leash.

Doug Sams - 15 Jan 2006 16:39 GMT
> PLEASE stop replying to them, and ABSOLUTELY stop replying to them and cross
> posting them to 5 other newsgroups.
>
> HITLER!

A-MEN!
AlMax - 15 Jan 2006 18:34 GMT
> PLEASE stop replying to them, and ABSOLUTELY stop replying to them and cross
> posting them to 5 other newsgroups.

Denny Crane ;)
randyolb@charter.net - 15 Jan 2006 18:46 GMT
> Denny Crane ;)

Love that show!  Captain Kirk gone wild. : )

Randy
www.vernarockets.com
Dave Grayvis - 15 Jan 2006 19:40 GMT
>>Denny Crane ;)
>
> Love that show!  Captain Kirk gone wild. : )
>
> Randy
> www.vernarockets.com

"KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!"
Shawn - 15 Jan 2006 20:06 GMT
>>> Denny Crane ;)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!"

http://www.khaaan.com/
Dave Grayvis - 15 Jan 2006 21:19 GMT
>>>> Denny Crane ;)
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> http://www.khaaan.com/

YES!

William Shatner is the greatest ham actor there ever was.
Ed T - 15 Jan 2006 22:12 GMT
>>>>> Denny Crane ;)
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> William Shatner is the greatest ham actor there ever was.
Me - 15 Jan 2006 22:32 GMT
> YES!
>
> William Shatner is the greatest ham actor there ever was.

Best lounge singer, too.

http://www.pathcom.com/~boby/lsd.au
Denny Crane - 15 Jan 2006 20:51 GMT
> Love that show!  Captain Kirk gone wild. : )

It's a real hoot Randy !
Brad Guth - 15 Jan 2006 20:02 GMT
Dear Bob Kaplow (aka "5 other newsgroups"),
There's actually way more than Enough Already!!!

There's been other intelligent life on Venus and, our moon hasn't quite
been walked upon, at least not by those of us having "the right stuff".

The ongoing intellectual, factual, religious and biological bigotry as
imposed upon Usenet topics, especially by the likes of those that'll
stalk and whenever possible hijack your otherwise honest contribution
is the proof-positive that folks like myself, Howard Stern and Kurt
Vonnegut are every bit as right as rain.  Meanwhile, back at the
GOOGLE/Usenet (aka MI6/NSA~CIA camp David ranch of oral fuckology) of
their mainstream status quo malware/fuckware that keeps rolling into my
PC, like so much of an unstoppable tide flow of a nasty cesspool that's
chuck full of such a disinformation overload, of so much crapolla that
the tallest of hipboots are no longer sufficient.

Guess what folks;  you're still being snookered to death, and otherwise
bankrupted to death, if not a whole lot worse.

>        The problem with governments is that citizens need to keep
>        them on a short leash; unfortunately the nature of the beast
>        is such that governments can usually arrange it so that only
>        they hold their own leash.
How about just cutting off their peckers, and otherwise using the most
powerful stunguns available as attached to whatever's left, that which
we the public can remotely activate with the puch of a few code
buttions from our phone.  It would be like our naysay vote of
dissaproval whenever we think we're being lied to.
-
Brad Guth
Denny Crane - 15 Jan 2006 20:50 GMT
> Dear Bob Kaplow (aka "5 other newsgroups"),
> There's actually way more than Enough Already!!!
>
> There's been other intelligent life on Venus and, our moon hasn't quite
> been walked upon, at least not by those of us having "the right stuff".

Dear Brad,

here is another saying Kirk is known for in the movies.

While stamping on you with his boot, he will say:

"I.... HAVE HAD... ENOUGH... OF YOU !"

Denny Crane
Ed T - 15 Jan 2006 22:11 GMT
>> Dear Bob Kaplow (aka "5 other newsgroups"),
>> There's actually way more than Enough Already!!!
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Denny Crane
David - 15 Jan 2006 22:53 GMT
That's exactly the problem - WHY do you respond to him?  Just ignore him.

-- David
>> Dear Bob Kaplow (aka "5 other newsgroups"),
>> There's actually way more than Enough Already!!!
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Denny Crane
Robert Juliano - 16 Jan 2006 05:24 GMT
Denny,

 I agree with you. Thank you for posting succintly what I couldn't
easily put into words.

Bob

>>Dear Bob Kaplow (aka "5 other newsgroups"),
>>There's actually way more than Enough Already!!!
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Denny Crane
Brad Guth - 16 Jan 2006 11:11 GMT
Enough Already!!!,
I think ignoring our environment, as well as per what we'd been doing
to Muslims and of Islam in general, on behalf of our having otherwise
supported the Jewish agenda of our mutual global energy domination
quest wasn't such a good idea, nor was having ignored the dozens of
intercepted and otherwise formal communications from Osama bin Laden
prior to 911 was perhaps another bad form of actions (aka inactions)
that our administration knowingly took.

Our having created and sustained a fully perpetrated cold-war for
decades on end was actually far worse off than having since ignored our
own moon and of the extremely nearby Venus which is almost as bad, if
not insanely incomprehensible.
-
Brad Guth
Me - 16 Jan 2006 12:43 GMT
> I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a
> kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a
> kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!

Thanks Peter!
Brad Guth - 16 Jan 2006 15:50 GMT
Wow, such terrific roboposting by spook/fuckologest "Me" again.
Apparently the truth and nothing but the truth really sucks big-time
for some of us that are certified bigots from hell, doesn't it "Me"?

What's the matter this time?

Why are you hijack posting to nowhere?
Google Groups does not currently support posting to the following
usenet groups: "alt.fan.kooks", "alt.usenet.kooks.brad-guth"
-
Brad Guth

14. Me / Jan 16, 4:43 am   show options
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur, rec.models.rockets, sci.space.history,
sci.space.policy, rec.aviation.military
Followup-To: alt.fan.kooks, alt.usenet.kooks,
alt.usenet.kooks.brad-guth
From: "Me" <diespammer...@diediedie.com> - Find messages by this author

Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:43:19 -0500
Local: Mon, Jan 16 2006 4:43 am
Subject: Re: Enough Already!!!

> I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a
> kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a
> kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!

Thanks Peter!
Me - 16 Jan 2006 17:56 GMT
> I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a
> kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!  I am a kook!

Brad, for once we agree.
Brad Guth - 16 Jan 2006 20:14 GMT
How absolutely pathetic, Me.  Are you still into dipers, or have you
gotten so damn old and cranky that you're having to get back into using
them?
-
Brad Guth
Me - 17 Jan 2006 00:39 GMT
> I need attention, because my mommy didn't love me.  If I act crazy, maybe
> everybody will pay attention to me!  Hey everybody, there are aliens on Venus!
> I am a barking mad moonbat!!!  WOOP!  WOOP!  Please pay attention to me!
Brad Guth - 17 Jan 2006 02:08 GMT
Dear Usenet fuckologest (aka "Me")
> I need attention, because my mommy didn't love me.  If I act crazy, maybe
> everybody will pay attention to me!  Hey everybody, there are aliens on Venus!
> I am a barking mad moonbat!!!  WOOP!  WOOP!  Please pay attention to me!

Are you back into sucking your private parts again, or do you go to
church twice daily for that pleasure?

Do you sleep with Art Deco and Bookman? (I think they'd like your type)
-
Brad Guth
Me - 18 Jan 2006 02:03 GMT
> I need attention because mommy didn't love me, so now I
> play on the internet where people WILL pay attention to me!
Brad Guth - 20 Jan 2006 06:40 GMT
>> I need attention because mommy didn't love me, so now I
>> play on the internet where people WILL pay attention to me!

Dear fuckologost spook(aka rustmaster "Me"),
Are you still sucking away at your private parts?

What part(s) about other life upon Venus isn't getting through?

What portions of the Venus facts needs to be improved upon?

What is it about the planet Venus that you're so afraid of?

What is it about our moon that's simply too taboo/nondisclosure?

BTW;  only an official MI6/NSA~CIA brown-nosed spook that truly sucks
and blows would be capable of such topic diverting, with such vapor
posting to phony baloney groups such as
"rec.batshit.crazy.netkooks.brad.guth".  Does this perchance represent
that you're also a Jewish bigot, or perhaps much worse being incest
cloned from the likes of your pagan born again resident warlord(GW
Bush)?
-
Brad Guth
Brad Guth - 20 Jan 2006 06:48 GMT
Oops!
>Dear fuckologost spook(aka rustmaster "Me"),
>Are you still sucking away at your private parts?

Sorry about that nasty typo, as I meant to convey * rusemaster *
instead of "rustmaster", although either way (ruse/rust) you seriously
suck and blow big-time.  So, at least I got that important part right.

Dear fuckologost spook(aka rusemaster "Me"),
Are you still sucking away at your private parts?
Me - 20 Jan 2006 13:56 GMT
"Brad Guth" <ieisbradguth@yahoo.com> embarrassed himself by saying:

> Dear fuckologost spook(aka rustmaster "Me"),
> Are you still sucking away at your private parts?

Classy!  Does your mommy know you talk like that?  "Mrs. Guth, Brad said 'fuckologost'!!!"

Maybe I'll phone up your mommy and tell her what you've been saying!

Would you like that?

> What part(s) about other life upon Venus isn't getting through?

What part of "people are laughing at you, Brad!" isn't getting through?
Brad Guth - 20 Jan 2006 20:01 GMT
>Maybe I'll phone up your mommy and tell her what you've been saying!
Christ almighty upon another stick; now you're talking to the dead.
Are you that good or what?

With regard to my "What part(s) about other life upon Venus isn't
getting through?"
>What part of "people are laughing at you, Brad!" isn't getting through?
Only the damn incest cloned fools on the hill, and/or of those most
brown-nosed, are laughing their intellectual flatulence spewing butts
off because, they're so snookered and otherwise brown-nosed dumbfounded
beyond the point of no-return, thus your pagan incest reply having
proven that point at least 10:1.

Silly me, I didn't realize that you'd based all of whatever's NASA (aka
MI6/NSA~CIA-->DoD) upon soft-science and those conditional laws of
physics.  Are you also still into being pro-perpetrated cold-war(s) or
bust?

BTW; your Google Groups
"rec.netkooks.brad.guth's.mommy.sucks.private.parts" is yet another
clasic MI6/NSA~CIA spookology/fuckology tactic at it's very best.
-
Brad Guth
Robert Juliano - 20 Jan 2006 20:22 GMT
Brad,

for a while there, I was thinking that you were just an a.shole.

But further perusal of your posts has shown certain patterns that have
me worrying about you. (not for you... about you you... as in "I'm
worried that brad guth might be outside.")

You have shown that you can string together words into coherent
sentences. Yet you have little outside contextual meaning.

You keep using the same phrases (fuckologist, spookology, incest-clones,
pagan gods of NASA/MI6.)

You keep hanging on arguments on faulty logic, missing facts, and some
strange linkage/interest in hitler, pagans, and a.s fixations.

Therefore, As a certified teacher of Special Needs, I am making this
statement:

Based upon my 10 years experience in working with learning disabled
populations (including people with dyslexia), it is my opinion that the
person known as Brad Guth is not dyslexic. Brad Guth's sympotms are:
-constant use of mild invective
-near total reliance on purple prose
-demonstratable lack of punctuation
-demonstratable reliance on 100+ sentences
-constant attention grabs
-apparent belief of superiority in specific subject knowledge, despite
contrasting facts
-internally constant, oral formuaic structure to most posts

This could possibly point to a mental illness, as opposed to a mere
learning disability. Many people with mental illness _may_ learn coping
skills, but this course is not a certain solution.

Therefore, Brad, I strongly urge you to seek professional help.

Bob (thread ends)

>>Maybe I'll phone up your mommy and tell her what you've been saying!
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> -
> Brad Guth
Herb Schaltegger - 20 Jan 2006 20:41 GMT
> Therefore, As a certified teacher of Special Needs, I am making this
> statement:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> contrasting facts
> -internally constant, oral formuaic structure to most posts

Facts we in sci.space.* have known for years.

> This could possibly point to a mental illness,

Gee, you think?!?!?

> as opposed to a mere
> learning disability. Many people with mental illness _may_ learn coping
> skills, but this course is not a certain solution.

Do you have access to a copy of the DSM IV?  I'd say Brad is already
very familiar with it, and I bet he's already been prescribed lots of
meds to deal with various diagnostic codes but refuses to take them.

> Therefore, Brad, I strongly urge you to seek professional help.

You're far from the first to make such a suggestion.

Signature

Herb

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
~ RAH

Brad Guth - 20 Jan 2006 21:09 GMT
Wow!
That's certainly food for thought, if not news that I could use (may
I?).  Thanks so much.

However, again replacing "Brad Guth" with most any one of your
brown-nosed naysayers (including yourself) and lo and behold, you've
hit the freaking nail right on the head.

I'll kindly keep asking these fine and supposedly upstanding naysay
rocket-science wizards if they've GOT 32:1 ROCKET? or GOT 64:1 ROCKET?
or GOT SQUAT?

How about it, Bob;  GOT SQUAT?
-
Brad Guth
Robert Juliano - 20 Jan 2006 22:46 GMT
Brad,

I understand that having someone point out your weaknesses can be
painful. I understand that there is always the temptation to attempt the
 apparently facetious comment, and the need to cast other's attentions
from your weaknesses, via projection. Please remember that projecting
your problems onto others does not help you in your journey to recovery.

please tell me...

-how does labeling the others in this room as brown nosers help you?
-how does blanket-labeling others as "nay-sayers" help you, in your road
to self-improvement?
-how does posting faked up conspiracies regarding moon landings help you?

thank you, and that'll be $75...

Bob

> Wow!
> That's certainly food for thought, if not news that I could use (may
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> -
> Brad Guth
Brad Guth - 21 Jan 2006 20:02 GMT
Dear Robert Juliano (aka "Special Needs" person),
My "weaknesses" for tolerating such born again liars is a problem that
perhaps some day I'll get myself fully assimilated into your
brown-nosed status quo that'll help to keep your mainstream of
disinformation flowing like so much other disinformation crapolla
that's keeping your kind of happy campers so nicely inside that box of
your's.

I believe your contributions of "you have shown", "you keep using" and
of your "therefore" conclusions need a little work, especially since
the only contrasting facts that do not add up are for the most part of
those contributed by folks like yourself and as otherwise having been
provided from your NASA/Apollo official record, as well as by most of
everything else as having transpired since.

You left off that I'm a wee bit more than merely vindictive and just
plain old and narly, that's in addition to my good standing in "lack of
punctuation" and "reliance on 100+ sentences".  I've also become
especially testy (aka favor returning) whenever certain folks that
claim knowing all there is to know simply don't want to be caught dead
forking over the whole truth and nothing but the truth, whereas that's
when I tend to go a little Usenet postal with my formuaic battery of
lose cannons that have been known to invent a few new words without
proper punctuation rather than having invented WMD that never existed
in the first place.  Besides the NASA/Apollo fiasco portion of our
perpetrated cold-war, would you like to know of what else I think of
our LLPOF naysay administrations, including their Skull and Bones SEC
portion of their ulterior motives, of what I'm thinking has been at the
root of most all modern day evil(s) upon Earth?

Of course, since you're so above it all that you wouldn't have noticed
that I'm only utilizing my "oral formuaic structure" upon those that so
badly deserve a good butt kicking, especially if it's a past due sort
of favor that needs badly to be returned, and thus qualifying as to a
few retroactive butt kickings comes to mind.  Of folks taking a
positive and thereby constructive point of view, which by the way does
not have to agree with each and every one of my deductive
interpretations, by their way of contributing useful information that
adds up to being the most likely truth, instead of the skewed truth
that suits the formuaic structure of whatever the mainstream status quo
has in their sick/perverted mindset, whereas I've been rather nice and
accepting as to the likes of such constructive topic contributions,
especially if those are pro-ET and thereby pro other intelligent life
as being entirely possible upon Venus.  However, your brown-nose status
quo of having chosen to stay the mainstream course of a thousands
lights is NOT what I'd qualify as being constructive.

Unlike yourself, I'm not the least bit all-knowing, just otherwise
all-wondering and having to be all-guessing  from time to time, as to
why the heck those rocket-science and fly-by-rocket numbers simply are
not adding up, especially since Kodak-science has already proven that
we've NOT walked upon the moon.  In fact, I may even have to research
upon a few of those other "attention grabbing" phrases of your's before
I can grasp their typical usage, especially as to how your intended
usage of such applies to myself.  Whereas you say "This could possibly
point to a mental illness, as opposed to a mere learning disability.
Many people with mental illness _may_ learn coping skills, but this
course is not a certain solution", which thereby explains as to why
folks like yourself that have become so totally snookered and thereby
having slipped way past the dumbfounded point of no return are just
like those fools that followed Hitler, and perhaps even himself were
foregone conclusions of the self destructive nature of such folks
living a lie on the edge of reality, and wherever possible perpetrating
another lie.  Matter of fact, I think that's the hard core basis of
most born again religious cults that have been known to suck the heart
and soul out of humanity without a stitch of remorse.

Here I'd thought the best course of any war was to thoroughly know thy
enemy and to as much as possible snooker thy enemy (somewhat like how
Osama bin Laden is doing to us), was back then and still is a good
tactic.  What I had not realized up until 6+ years ago was the extent
of how well snookered we've been taken to the cleaners by our own kind,
as having perpetrated such cold-wars that obviously needed trillions
upon trillions of funding that simply would not have materialized if we
weren't so snookered and summarily dumbfounded by our own kind in the
first place.  Clearly the pillaging and plundering of the vast
intellectual and scientific superiority of Germany was the opening of a
motherload worth of what Pandora's box had to share.  Unfortunately,
since Russia accomplished by far the most good on behalf of terminating
Hitler and his Third Reich minions, as such they took their fair share
of whatever Pandora's box of goodies had to offer.

Therefore, your "I strongly urge you to seek professional help" I'd
thought was pretty much exactly what I was doing, by way of
communicating via my lose cannon, especially with regard to the likes
of rocket-science that simply can not manage to have such an outrageous
difference as 64:1 up against the 764:1, which is actually a whole lot
worse off because the amount of time required for achieving the 764:1
deployment of the extremely little Lunar Prospector as taken nearly 50%
longer than the NASA/Apollo ruse accomplishment of having supposedly
deployed 47t in under 3 days is suggesting the absolute absurdity that
a scaled up 470t deployment would therefore only involve a 6.4:1
rocket/payload factor as based upon the old Saturn-V formula.  Is that
the phony baloney basis of what the 2018 plan of action is founded
upon? (somehow with all the SRB/SRM stacking and usage of composites
that's being planned, I don't think so)

BTW;  if it weren't for my limited "spell checker" you'd be in need of
a good Klingon code decryption manual.  Unfortunately, my wall-of-words
processor via "NoteTab" software does not auto-punctuate, does not seem
to offer dyslexic syntax corrections, nor has it any grammar
compression mode, whereas at best it merely catches a few dozen reverse
spelled words per paragraph.

BTW No.2;  you're not actually a very good "teacher of Special Needs"
if you can't grasp onto the "Special Needs" of what I've had to share
for the past 6 years and counting.  Is it the dyslexic truthsayer or
the ulterior motivated naysayer;  which one of us represents a lost
cause?

>-how does labeling the others in this room as brown nosers help you?
>-how does blanket-labeling others as "nay-sayers" help you, in your road
> to self-improvement?
>-how does posting faked up conspiracies regarding moon landings help you?

>thank you, and that'll be $75...
Christ almighty on another stick, Robert.  For resolving all of that
you're certainly dirt cheap.

BTW No.3;  this "room" that you speak of as containing others of your
kind.  Could you be a little more title and physical address specific
as to the exact nature of this MI6/NSA~CIA "room" of special needs that
you've spoken of?
-
Brad Guth
lightnpyro@yahoo.com - 21 Jan 2006 20:24 GMT
Yew speeka Eengrish??
Tank Fixer - 21 Jan 2006 21:01 GMT
In article <1137873734.620224.68100@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
on 21 Jan 2006 12:02:14 -0800,
Brad Guth ieisbradguth@yahoo.com attempted to say .....

> I'm a wee bit

> I'm only utilizing my "oral formuaic structure"

> I'm not the least bit all-knowing

Signature

When dealing with propaganda terminology  one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Robert Juliano - 21 Jan 2006 21:32 GMT
>>>a lot of words from his processing of emotional issues<<<

That's good Bradley! Thank you for being willing open up to the group!

now then,

-how does this supposed lunar conspiracy effect your social interactions
with other people?

-how does your belief in a group of beings, living on venus, comfort you?

-how does the apparent negative attention that you've mentioned from the
group, color your views of other people?

Please remember, that next session, we'll be talking about some of hte
root causes...

Thank you, and that will be another $75.

Bob
Brad Guth - 22 Jan 2006 04:03 GMT
Robert Juliano (aka root cause),
Of whatever's "lunar conspiracy" worthy is in fact providing a
perfectly good battery of reasons for myself and countless others
before my involvement, in my case to believe that whatever I've
uncovered that's most interesting about our nearest solar system being
encharge of the 105,000 year cycle, about our once upon a time icy
proto-moon (quite salty none the less), of what values the LL-1 affords
as per usage on behalf of the one and only LSE-CM/ISS, or of whatever
intelligent other life had created upon Venus that's in plain sight is
simply never going to see the polluted light of day on your global
warming watch, just like the truth and nothing but the truth as to your
perpetrated cold-war that had been so extensively contributed to by the
NASA/Apollo sting of the century, isn't going down without a WW-III or
worse fight.

Oops!  I've identified yet another one of my mistakes.  However, this
one only keeps the old Saturn-V fly-by-rocket situation well within the
nearest space-toilet, whereas before I'd been thinking they had
accomplished such massive tonnage deployments of nearly 47t within less
than 3 days, when in fact it took 3+ days of 74.5 Hrs, up to taking as
great as 86.3 Hrs.  That makes the most recent argument of 86.3/9 =
9.59 times longer than what New Horizons having accomplished just 0.48t
(that's roughly 1% of the Apollo tonnage) as having used up a
rocket/payload ratio of 1194:1, therefore 1194:1/9.59 = 124.5:1

According to the official 'history.nasa.gov' record;  Apollo-16
accomplished their fastest manned translunar deployment at 74.5 hrs,
which further interprets as taking 8.28 fold greater time than New
Horizons 9 hrs.  Thus 1194/8.28 = 144.2:1 as the revised rocket/payload
ratio.

Apparently NASA's rocket-science isn't such a science after all.  At
least when such an old 64:1 method that's relatively inert massive,
plus hauling a few other drag related and inert mass worthy
compromises, is the same as the newest streamlined possibility of
144:1, that's offered only because of having the least inert mass to
deal with, as well as least otherwise compromised.

Any way you'd care to cut it;  Of utilizing the newest and most
effective 144:1 or even of the 124.5:1 form of accounting simply is not
nearly an equal match to what such an old and terribly outdated method
by all supposedly accepted rocket-science high standards and
accountability, as having supposedly transpired on behalf of our nearly
40 year old 64:1 capability that oddly can't be touched by the bestest
rocket technologies of today.  Don't look now folks, but lo and behold,
that previous record simply sucks and blows whatever's truth in
rocket-science right out the nearest window for exactly what it
represents, which is a nasty butt-load of pure cold-war crapolla (aka
disinformation) on stick.

Of course, as I've previously suggested, it's actually much worse off
because, that supposed 64:1 accomplishment is not having taken into
account for all of the advancements in regard to the reductions in
inert mass, or of the reduced if any auxiliary impact of
cryogenic-storage related ice loading (due to the superior insulation
R-factors in use today), of the better engine efficiencies to boot, or
that of having a significantly reduced aerodynamic drag, as well as
having a mere fraction of the time dealing with exiting Earth's
atmosphere.  In other words, I'm not the least bit convinced that a
200:1 ratio for the old Saturn-V wouldn't have been the case, making at
best 15t doable (not the nearly 47t).

Here's where I've pulled the running time for Apollo tonnage arriving
into lunar orbit.

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_08g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-08 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: 069:12:27.3

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_10g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-10 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: GET(hhh:mm:ss) 076:01:50.1

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_11g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-11 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: GET(hhh:mm:ss) 075:55:47.90

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_12g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-12 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: GET(hhh:mm:ss) 083:31:15.61

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_13g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-13 (N/A) Apparently Apollo-13 never had to bother with any stinking
Lunar orbit insertion since they didn't have to actually go any further
than LL-1.

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_14g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-14 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: GET(hhh:mm:ss) 082:02:51.54

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_15g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-15 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: GET(hhh:mm:ss) 078:38:25.06

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_16g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-16 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: GET(hhh:mm:ss) 074:34:42.77

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_17g_Lunar_Orbit_Phase.htm
A-17 Lunar orbit insertion cutoff: GET(hhh:mm:ss) 086:20:55.76

I'm assuming their insertion phase of retrothrust cutoff had to have
transpired somewhat prior to reaching any significant distance of their
going past the maximum lunar gravity influence, thus obviously they
weren't previously trying to exit the Earth/moon gravity constraints by
way of zipping their way past LL-1 any faster than they absolutely had
to, whereas if they had allowed for such extra velocity would have
added far too much retrothrust insult to injury (taking away even more
of the available launch energy, which only makes their rocket/payload
ratio as having that extra/spare load of retrothrust fuel added to the
launch and deployment phase of accomplishing their in-orbit worth of
47t, thus obviously making it that much worse off).  Therefore, until I
can learn better, I'm sticking with calling Saturn-V no better off than
200:1.  Go figure otherwise for yourself.

I can see that your Usenet malware/fuckware has been arriving as I
type, and otherwise attempting to interpret and/or interrupt whatever I
copy or type.  Image that, it's right back into the same old
MI6/NSA~CIA crapolla of my having to deal with even more of your intent
to terminate my PC.  I wonder what's the next mainstream damage-control
gauntlet of MIB going to be like, Bob?
-
Brad Guth
Pat Flannery - 21 Jan 2006 23:25 GMT
> This could possibly point to a mental illness,

Most of us in the sci.space.history newsgroup reached somewhat the same
diagnosis years ago after reading around three or four of his postings.

Pat
Tank Fixer - 22 Jan 2006 01:30 GMT
In article <11t5gnskiul1971@corp.supernews.com>,
on Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:25:46 -0600,
Pat Flannery flanner@daktel.com attempted to say .....

> > This could possibly point to a mental illness,
>
> Most of us in the sci.space.history newsgroup reached somewhat the same
> diagnosis years ago after reading around three or four of his postings.

I am truly suprised it took more than one..

Signature

When dealing with propaganda terminology  one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Robert Juliano - 22 Jan 2006 01:32 GMT
> In article <11t5gnskiul1971@corp.supernews.com>,
>  on Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:25:46 -0600,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I am truly suprised it took more than one..

I had to give him the benefit of a doubt...

Bob
Pat Flannery - 22 Jan 2006 03:06 GMT
>>Most of us in the sci.space.history newsgroup reached somewhat the same
>>diagnosis years ago after reading around three or four of his postings.
>>    
>
>I am truly suprised it took more than one..
>  

It all got started with his "analysis" of things he had seen in the
Magellan radar images from Venus. To us it looked like static, but he
saw bridges, giant airships, roads, and all sorts of other things,
rather like seeing animal shapes in clouds.
Each week would bring new "finds" on that remote and forbidding sphere,
and we thought he was doing a pretty clever parody of a whacko website,
but then realized that he was serious about this.
His posting of a topographical map of Mars and claiming it was Venus
became one of the best  laughs sci.space.history ever had, ranking right
up there with the time one of the posters was chased around by an
amorous cow....or maybe it was just  angry.
Let's say it was f.cking mad and cover both possibilities.
Speaking of f.cking mad, Guth's postings got stranger and stranger, soon
moving into discussions that I never could understand about cyclopean
Cathar lizards living on Venus.
As to how creatures that lack stereo vision survive (is it a fly at one
inch distance, or a pterodactyl at one hundred feet? You can eat ne, the
other can eat you), as well as why they would follow a medieval
Christian heresy was never explained to my satisfaction.
Anyway, his constant and frenzied writing has resulted in him getting
more verbose with a larger vocabulary over the years, if still
completely incomprehensible.
He also seem to have moved from simple delusions into the realm of
paranoia, but thinking too much about one-eyed lizards is liable to do
that to you. :-)

Pat
Cardman - 22 Jan 2006 04:00 GMT
>>>Most of us in the sci.space.history newsgroup reached somewhat the same
>>>diagnosis years ago after reading around three or four of his postings.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>saw bridges, giant airships, roads, and all sorts of other things,
>rather like seeing animal shapes in clouds.

I have not kill-filter him... yet.

In my entire 8 years in the Usenet I have only ever kill-filtered one
person due to having totally no worthwhile qualities. This in posting
off-topic insane postings by the thousands with totally no feedback or
interaction. And only after complaints to their provider were ignored.

Brad does at least have a few redeeming qualities. Namely being
usually on-topic, somewhat humorous, and providing quite an
interesting discussion.

Just too bad that he spends his time barking up the wrong tree.

I did have an interesting discussion on killer Sednas posing a threat
to Earth with him on my last visit here. He overlooked the probability
factor.

And naturally I am still awaiting for him to prove the science behind
his moon hoax claims. I guess that won't be coming soon.

I will certainly have to check out his postings when NASA does head
back to the Moon, when we all known that such a space voyage is lethal
in Brad's view. Provided he is around then, when having his main claim
disproved may cause him to... fade away.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.org
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk
Thomas Lee Elifritz - 22 Jan 2006 14:32 GMT
> I will certainly have to check out his postings when NASA does head
> back to the Moon, when we all known that such a space voyage is lethal

to space science.

I suspect you will be waiting a long time.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Me - 20 Jan 2006 20:48 GMT
> Only the damn incest cloned fools on the hill, and/or of those most
> brown-nosed, are laughing their intellectual flatulence spewing butts
> off because, they're so snookered and otherwise brown-nosed dumbfounded
> beyond the point of no-return, thus your pagan incest reply having
> proven that point at least 10:1.

OMG LOL!  I read that, imagining (again) the French Knight from
Monty Python and the Holy Grail, and almost laughed my f'ing a.s off!
Go back and read it again, imagining that outrageous French accent,
it truly is hilarious!

Thanks for the chuckle.  You made my day!
Robert Juliano - 21 Jan 2006 21:41 GMT
>>Only the damn incest cloned fools on the hill, and/or of those most
>>brown-nosed, are laughing their intellectual flatulence spewing butts
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks for the chuckle.  You made my day!

If Brad can do the same thing in real life, with the right intonations...

Broadway is always hiring.

He might even get a date...

Bob
Pat Flannery - 21 Jan 2006 23:31 GMT
>OMG LOL!  I read that, imagining (again) the French Knight from
>Monty Python and the Holy Grail, and almost laughed my f'ing a.s off!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Thanks for the chuckle.  You made my day!
>  

"Your mother was a Venusian Firewoman, and your father smelled of  
Cather Lizards. Now go away silly sane person or I shall taunt you
again!" :-D

Pat
Cranny Dane - 20 Jan 2006 01:31 GMT
Hi all you Moon Hoax aficionados.

It has come to my attention that you need some help,

perhaps some legal help.

Our law firm is prepared to help you in your quest to prove to the pubic
your hoax theories.

Our Firm;

Dane, Crane, Shagowski and Doo , is prepared to help you !

For a small retaining fee and 47% of future claims we will represent you.

Stay tuned to your moon hoax postings for a website near you.

Cranny Dane
OM - 15 Jan 2006 23:28 GMT
>PLEASE stop replying to them, and ABSOLUTELY stop replying to them and cross
>posting them to 5 other newsgroups.

...Or, if you just *have* to reply to them to help with your
masochistic masturbations, remove sci.space.history from the
followups. We've got the majority of the threads and the bastard
trolls causing them killfiled, but far too many of them still manage
to leak through.

                OM
Signature

  ]=====================================[
  ]   OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld   [
  ]        Let's face it: Sometimes you *need*         [
  ]          an obnoxious opinion in your day!           [
  ]=====================================[

Me - 15 Jan 2006 23:55 GMT
> ...Or, if you just *have* to reply to them to help with your
> masochistic masturbations, remove sci.space.history from the
> followups. We've got the majority of the threads and the bastard
> trolls causing them killfiled, but far too many of them still manage
> to leak through.

It would be nice if there was a way to post a message to a
newsgroup, but have all follow-up replies sent to "alt.nutjobs",
which is where this fracking pest belongs.
Peter Skelton - 16 Jan 2006 00:00 GMT
>> ...Or, if you just *have* to reply to them to help with your
>> masochistic masturbations, remove sci.space.history from the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>newsgroup, but have all follow-up replies sent to "alt.nutjobs",
>which is where this fracking pest belongs.

Like this?

Peter Skelton
Me - 16 Jan 2006 04:12 GMT
>>It would be nice if there was a way to post a message to a
>>newsgroup, but have all follow-up replies sent to "alt.nutjobs",
>>which is where this fracking pest belongs.
>>
> Like this?

Like what?
Peter Skelton - 16 Jan 2006 11:49 GMT
>>>It would be nice if there was a way to post a message to a
>>>newsgroup, but have all follow-up replies sent to "alt.nutjobs",
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Like what?

well done

Peter Skelton
hiltyt@weinerboy.org - 16 Jan 2006 00:50 GMT
>There are a handful of threads that have been running here since before
>Christmas, started by flamers that don't give a @%^#* about these
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>HITLER!

As Bob cross-posts to 5 other newsgroups...

<snicker>

Ooops...

<vbg>

tah

--

Tod A. Hilty
Hilty Information Systems

Do not look in the direction of the flash...
Curl up in a ball as you hit the ground...

CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent
of 85 Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight

Please replace weinerboy dot org with adelphia dot net for reply.
Starlord - 16 Jan 2006 04:54 GMT
Hello Bob, just think that your showing up on S.A.A. where I make my home.

Signature

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
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http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords

> There are a handful of threads that have been running here since before
> Christmas, started by flamers that don't give a @%^#* about these
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> HITLER!
Ian MacLure - 16 Jan 2006 05:49 GMT
> There are a handful of threads that have been running here since
> before Christmas, started by flamers that don't give a @%^#* about
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> HITLER!

       I'll see your Hitler and raise you Stalin.

       IBM

 
Brad Guth - 19 Jan 2006 01:02 GMT
Bob Kaplow,
How is continually ignoring the greater availability of green/renable
energy, that's essentially everywhere upon and from what's just above
the geothermally toasty Venus surface, the least bit outside of your
Usenet from hell status quo (aka naysay) box, that which supposedly
contains those regular laws of physics plus absolute loads of
hard-science that's still after 6 years and counting in full agreement
with my observationology of what's intelligently situated upon Venus to
behold, as for such other science having contributed on behalf of
exactly what intelligent design seemingly needs the most of (aka clean
energy, and especially if it's of the green/renewable format), being
the least bit irrational or even semi-loony?

Isn't good old WYSIWYG playing any part of our day to day SWAG?

Is being intellectually as well as biologically blind the new and
improved mainstream status quo requirement for obtaining a certified
degree in science, as well as for otherwise being totally dumbfounded
beyond the point of no return the status quo requirement of obtaining
that masters degree in those socially/politically and above all
religiously conditional laws of physics?

How many hard-wood 2x4 head impacts does the likes of the typically
brown-nosed Usenet dumbfounded brain that's so easily snookered require
these days?

Isn't government (aka too damn much of it) the primary problem that we
think it is?
-

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Me - 19 Jan 2006 01:08 GMT
"Brad Guth" <ieisbradguth@yahoo.com> sang to the tune of the "1812 Overture":

> I'm a kook, I'm a kook, I'm a kook kook kook!
> I'm a kook, I'm a kook, I'm a kook kook kook!
> I'm a kook, I'm a kook, I'm a kook kook kook!
> I'm a kook!  I'm a kook kook kook!
Secret237@Verizon.net - 19 Jan 2006 02:11 GMT
I think your post mainly applies to me because I have replied to
"him" way too much.

But I think I am through with replying to him because I have figured
out a few things about him.
He doesn't know what he is talking about, for one thing.
He is not well educated for another.
He studies a topic only to find out why it may not have worked without
trying to see how it did work.  He goes off on a topic about some ratio

that really doesn't mean much and when all you need to know about if
the Saturn V rocket could do the job or not is here:
http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/waw/mad/mad3.html

But this makes some basic assumptions which he would never accept, just

to and only to perpetuate his argument.  For one thing you have to
believe the advertised weight of the Saturn V and how much thrust the
engines (F-1 included) had, not to mention the weight of the payload.
(CM, SM, LM)  You don't need to concern yourself about ratios and
what other rockets have or could have done or are doing now, you only
need to ask yourself: "Could it have been done??" So, even though I
could show him how the Saturn V could have done the job, mathematically

(which he would not even understand), he would still not believe it.
So this is why I am through, there is no point.  Everyone was right,
it's pointless to talk with him.

Plus I have caught him in some inconsistencies in his own claims; (in
other words he has changed his claim) tells me he just wants (yes
wants) to argue.

I've studied a few others like him and they seem to be about the
same, wild accusations.
I read this recently:  "I claim that Christa McAuliffe was
murdered."
What proof could there possibly be for that ?? (I don't want to know)
They do not really need proof of anything, they just like to make the
accusation.
That's all there is to it, it's all about making the accusation.

I have far more respect for the Grissom family and their attempts on
the fire than I have for any of these others.

Well, we don't need to prove anything to them, the burden of proof is
upon them, not us, but they even try to turn that around.
So I think I am through, at least I hope so, sorry if I caused any
problems.
Brad Guth - 19 Jan 2006 03:55 GMT
Secret237,
Certainly those are somewhat better words of yours, that basically keep
saying the same old thing over and over.  Are you absolutely certain
those are the very best walls of naysay words representing the utmost
incest cloned brown-nosed flak you've got to offer?

>we don't need to prove anything to them, the burden of proof is
>upon them, not us, but they even try to turn that around.
Dear "we" (aka don't need to prove anything),
I believe it was purely the need-to-know and/or take it or leave it
words and skewed science as provided by your cloak and dagger
NASA/Apollo that supposedly had folks landing upon and walking moonsuit
butt-naked upon our mineral darkened to a deep brownish coal like
terrain that oddly turned out being nearly a vast zone of a white-out
situation as recorded by those supposed unfiltered Kodak moments while
upon the deck, not to mention their avoiding the horrifically
secondary/recoil nasty aspects of our moon that must have entirely
vanished, whereas per supposedly their having gotten there in no time
at all with a 47t payload as having been accomplished at the impressive
64:1 ratio, by such high and almighty standards we can't as of today
hardly manage to get squat into GSO via 64:1, and those are not even by
way of my numbers, but rather by the well established numbers of what
our own NASA and ESA has to say.

I just love your conditional rocket-science physics, whereas the old
methods were far superior to the new;
>You don't need to concern yourself about ratios and what other
>rockets have or could have done or are doing now, you only need
>to ask yourself: "Could it have been done??"
Which totally ignores the factual hard matter of proven fact reality of
what other missions having far more effective multi-stage rockets
required as of recent history, as having taken much greater applied
rocket mass per payload mass, plus having involved longer travel times
in order to establish their lunar orbit to boot.

Since you've basically repeated the same old mainstream status quo
crapolla for the last 4 decades, perhaps in that case, I'll gladly
share a wee bit of my dyslexic editing improvements, and repost those
as my much better walls of many more and far more important words than
yours.

What I'd still like to appreciate to the fullest extent is this;
How per say is continually ignoring the greater availability of
green/renable energy, that's essentially everywhere upon and otherwise
easily extracted from what's just above the geothermally toasty Venus
surface, representing itself as the least bit outside of your Usenet
from hell status quo (aka naysay) box, that which supposedly contains
those regular laws of physics plus absolute loads of hard-science
that's still after 6 years and counting is in the fullest agreement
with my observationology of what's intelligently situated upon Venus to
behold, as for such other science having contributed on behalf of
exactly what intelligent design and especially of evolutionary
happenstance seemingly needs the most of (aka clean energy, and
especially if it's of the green/renewable format), being the least bit
irrational or even semi-loony?

Isn't good old WYSIWYG playing any part of our day to day SWAG?

Is the basis of having already been and/or becoming intellectually as
well as biologically blind the new and improved mainstream entry level
requirement for obtaining a certified degree in science brown-nosed
bigotry-101, as well as for otherwise being totally dumbfounded beyond
the point of no return the one and only status quo prerequisite of
obtaining that masters degree in those socially/politically and above
all religiously correct conditional laws of physics?

How many hardwood 2x4 cranial impacts does the likes of the typically
brown-nosed Usenet dumbfounded brain, that's so easily snookered,
require these days?

Isn't government (aka too damn much of it) and as always the never
ending skew of religion the primary LLPOF infomercial muck running and
disinformation-R-us problem that we think it is?
-

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Robert Juliano - 19 Jan 2006 17:51 GMT
Bradly-kins (AKA loony-toon #307),

1.) sentences longer than 50 words tend to be regarded as gibberish.
2.) how are you getting 67:1 ratio? the all-up weight of the Saturn 5
was a lot more than 3149 tons, sitting on the pad.

3.) How about you go and prove yourself correct. The burden of proof is
on the accuser. YOU are accusing NASA of lying, so prove it. (I know I'd
trust NASA, my uncle used to work for them.)

Bob

> Secret237,
> Certainly those are somewhat better words of yours, that basically keep
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
> Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
> http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
Me - 19 Jan 2006 19:19 GMT
> 3.) How about you go and prove yourself correct. The burden of proof is on the accuser. YOU are accusing NASA of lying, so prove
> it. (I know I'd trust NASA, my uncle used to work for them.)

To summarize, Guthy...

Who is the world going to believe?

1.  The scientific evidence of returned moon rocks and dust, accompanied by
    vast tracts of photographic data, plus the eyewitness accounts of hundreds
    of thousands of individual scientists, astronauts, engineers, radio equipment
    operators, astronomers, geologists, etc., plus the years of operational data
    returned by experiments left in place on the moon,

OR....

2.  One lone kook with a propensity for childish insults, an inability to comprehend
    grade-level math and physics, and bizarre fantasies about alien structures on
    Venus where obviously none exist.

Gee, tough choice, but I'm putting my money on #1!
Brad Guth - 19 Jan 2006 19:23 GMT
Robert Juliano,
1) I like to use lots and lots of words, thus 50 words/sentence is
absolutely nothing to my dyslexic way of doing things.

2) first of all, it's not 67:1, it's more like having been 64:1 as
based upon the total liftoff mass per payload mass as officially
reported.  If anything it's somewhat less than 64:1 if you'd care to
exclude the massive amounts of initial ice loading and otherwise
include all the beer and pizza taken along for the ride (just kidding).

The 64:1 is no lie because, it's NASA's numbers to start with.  Are you
telling us that instead of 47t having reached lunar orbit, that it was
actually a typo of what was supposed to be 4.7t, as I'd certainly
believe that sort of number right off the bat (no further questions
asked).

BTW;  your Saturn-V of 3149 tons isn't metric, thus it's badly skewed
from the get go.
-

Brad Guth
Robert Juliano - 19 Jan 2006 20:13 GMT
Bradley-kins,
1.) using lots and lots of words masks what little meaning your
sentences have.

2.) *who* reported the mass ratio as 64:1?

the difference between a standard ton, and a metric ton, is a multiplier
of 1.125. I'll let it go for preliminary calculations.

Bob (who is thinking that bradley-kins isn't suffering from dyslexia,
just dis-cognition...)

> Robert Juliano,
> 1) I like to use lots and lots of words, thus 50 words/sentence is
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Brad Guth
Brad Guth - 19 Jan 2006 22:57 GMT
Robert Juliano,
your 3149 tons = 2857 metric tonnes / 47t = 61:1

Obviously you have an ulterior (aka naysay mindset) movive and/or a
hidden agenda that's not going to ever change no matters what.  For
that I'll say thae same as in the high standards and accountability
mindset of your resident warlord(GW Bush), so what's the difference?

Even though I believe your liftoff tonnage is way short by at least the
factor of having excluded the payload tonnage, thus if the Saturn-V
tonnage were having been combined along with nearly 60 tonnes of the
initial payload plus some tonnage of ice and of their Launch Escape
System(LES) of nearly 4 tons (actually it was supposedly a dead amount
of weight worth merely an extra 4170 kg), for the total mass of roughly
becoming nearly 3210 tones (2912t metric) is somewhat better off than
62:1 at 47t getting into orbit, if 46t being 63.3:1 and, nearly 64.7:1
if the combined payload as placed into lunar orbit was merely 45t.
Either way you'd care to cut into it, seems as though a 64:1 ratio is a
wee bit more than a little impressive, especially pre SRB/SRM assist as
of nearly 4 decades ago.

Also remember that a first stage of LOX/RP-1 is downright wossy
compared to the likes of H2O2/RP-1 density, and even that's wossy
density compared to the somewhat testier worth of H2O2/C3H4O.  I'm not
sure that their first and 2nd stage shouldn't have been H2O2/RP-1 as
well, with only their 3rd stage as LOX/LH2.

H2O2, RP-1 or C3H4O are so much denser elements that are a whole lot
more effectively stored (especially in slush form) than anything that's
having to be ultra sub-frozen and of such low density to boot.  Your
Saturn-V packed a great deal of inert mass because of the formula of
rocket fuels utilized, and to further top that inert mass insult to
injury off, it clearly had no SRB/SRM assistance whatsoever (other than
the LES module that to thank their lucky stars never had to be utilized
for it's intended save-thy-butt purpose).
-
Brad Guth
Orval Fairbairn - 19 Jan 2006 22:10 GMT
> Robert Juliano,
> 1) I like to use lots and lots of words, thus 50 words/sentence is
> absolutely nothing to my dyslexic way of doing things.

To apply a Winston Churchill expression regarding Clement Attlee:

"He has a tremendous ability to compress so many words into so little
thought."

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Brad Guth - 20 Jan 2006 03:06 GMT
Orval Fairbairn,
Exactly what part about "Enough Already!!!" is simply over your naysay
little head?
-
Brad Guth
 
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