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Model Forum / General / Rockets / January 2006amateur rocketry questions
AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, do you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a waiver? shockie B) > AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, do > you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a waiver? > > shockie B) Not 100% sure on that one, but I suspect the same rules apply to amateur rockets as to model, large model, and HPR. All unmanned rockets, except those under 1 LB in weight, fall under FAR 101 activities; at least that's the way I read it. Fred > > AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, do > > you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a waiver? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Fred I am sure and have the answer on a website of course, but Fred has spoken, so that shall be the last word indeed.  SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring GROWTH back to consumer rocketry. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com GAWD....how hard is it to answer the man's questions without dishing crap. You sure do a lot for the hobby with this attitude! - less than 1 pound pad weight = no notification - Above 1 pound and less than 1500grams and less than 125g propellant = FAR101 - Above 1500g or 125g propellant = full waiver > GAWD....how hard is it to answer the man's questions without dishing > crap. > You sure do a lot for the hobby with this attitude! Hey! Well you know :-) > - less than 1 pound pad weight = no notification > - Above 1 pound and less than 1500grams and less than 125g propellant = > FAR101 > - Above 1500g or 125g propellant = full waiver But he already knows all of this. Probably far better than most do. So I do have to wonder why he would even post the question! This is all very basic stuff. Signaturegcisko@hotmail.com >- less than 1 pound pad weight = no notification >- Above 1 pound and less than 1500grams and less than 125g propellant = >FAR101 >- Above 1500g or 125g propellant = full waiver Does the fact that the motor is uncertified (implied by it being an amateur as opposed to high power launch) make a difference? What if it is a homemade (amateur) motor with less than 62.5 grams of propellant flying in a rocket weighing less than 1 pound. Is there any sort of waiver needed in that case? Perhaps the FAA doesn't care, but some other agency does? I've never made my own motors and don't have any plans to do so, but I've always wondered what the rules were. Jonathan ----- Jonathan Sivier Secretary, Central Illinois Aerospace jsivier AT uiuc.edu NAR #56437 Tripoli #1906 CIA Web Site: http://www.prairienet.org/cia/ Home Page: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jsivier/www/ ----- "Remember to always keep the pointy end up." http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=894cc240560f6be3097af59 0651c4ba8&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14 Signature"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply. > >>- less than 1 pound pad weight = no notification [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > ----- > "Remember to always keep the pointy end up." > Does the fact that the motor is uncertified (implied by it being an > amateur as opposed to high power launch) make a difference? What if > it is a homemade (amateur) motor with less than 62.5 grams of > propellant flying in a rocket weighing less than 1 pound. Is there > any sort of waiver needed in that case? Yes, EX/research/amateur rockets need waivers per the same criteria as model rockets. The FAA pretty much doesn't care about the certified status of the rocket motor. FAR 101 does speak of "slow-burning propellant" but I didn't see a specific limit listed. Basically the FAA cares about rockets that can cause damage, either directly or by interfering with a flight path. This is a weight issue, except for that vague "slow-burning propellant" concern. (The reference to the burn rate is in the part that speaks about exemptions to FAR 101, specifically rockets under 1 lb using less than 4 oz of "slow-burning propellant".) > Perhaps the FAA doesn't care, but some other agency does? You mean besides the ATF? :-) SignatureSteve Humphrey (replace "spambait" with "merlinus" to respond directly to me) > > Does the fact that the motor is uncertified (implied by it being an > > amateur as opposed to high power launch) make a difference? What if [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You mean besides the ATF? :-) There's always the local Fire Marshal. > >- less than 1 pound pad weight = no notification > >- Above 1 pound and less than 1500grams and less than 125g propellant = [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > ----- > "Remember to always keep the pointy end up." FAA is a different jusridiction entirely from NAR, TRA, ATF, DOT, etc. FAA is 125g propellant OR 3.3 lb+ liftoff, waiver required. Waivers are free and easy to obtain. Ask Ray. Jerry SignatureJerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01rocket@gte.net> Please bring GROWTH back to consumer rocketry. Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com > FAA is a different jusridiction entirely from NAR, TRA, ATF, DOT, etc. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jerry Yea but you pay your FAA violation fines at the same address you pay DOT assessments. Isn't that right Jerry?? >> FAA is a different jusridiction entirely from NAR, TRA, ATF, DOT, etc. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Yea but you pay your FAA violation fines at the same address you pay DOT >assessments. Isn't that right Jerry?? It's probably the same place he sends all his money. ;-) > >> FAA is a different jusridiction entirely from NAR, TRA, ATF, DOT, etc. > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > It's probably the same place he sends all his money. ;-) You are correct, from what I hear.. It's for sure, none of his previous partners were paid for any of those model airplane parts.. (;-) > Does the fact that the motor is uncertified (implied by it being an amateur > as opposed to high power launch) make a difference? What if it is a homemade [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > own motors and don't have any plans to do so, but I've always wondered what the > rules were. Unmanned rocket is unmanned rocket. FAA does not care about certifications of motors. > - less than 1 pound pad weight = no notification > - Above 1 pound and less than 1500grams and less than 125g propellant = > FAR101 > - Above 1500g or 125g propellant = full waiver yes, IF it is in controlled Airspace. most of the US is controlled above 1200 feet. some in the US is controlled above 14,000 you have to find it on the maps. if you are flying in uncontrolled airspace no waiver or notification. CD >>- less than 1 pound pad weight = no notification >>- Above 1 pound and less than 1500grams and less than 125g propellant = [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > CD Are these maps available online by chance? If not how could one of us rocket peoples acquire such a map? Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75 > Are these maps available online by chance? If not how could one of us > rocket peoples acquire such a map? hi Ted, they are your airport sectional maps. you can buy them at your small local FBO like airport. same maps you use to get radial VOR co-ords to file a waiver. one whole US master is online, posted here on r.m.r. about a quarter ago, let me see if I can find, looking....looking...looking... ya know that dog that scratches about while you are searching ? he came from the Microsoft Bob program Gates' wife put together, oops sorry , cliff claven like trivia.... here you go, http://skyvector.com/ they have them all on line. it's better to use real maps, more interactive to me ;) I really owe that link to another r.m.r poster and could not find his name to reference credit since credit is due, sorry. I'll try to dig up his name, the uncontrolled airspace is dark blue bands with a smooth line on one side and a blurring line on the other and marking saying 9,600 14,300 etc.. look near black rock he posted last, it's like 9.6 and 14k uncontrolled. but that is MSL not AGL. and the rock is at 4K already. look around phoenix lots of uncontrolled space in certain areas. you can also fly your unmanned rocket in certain restricted airspace IF you have the militaries permission. look at the thumb of Michigan. CD >>Are these maps available online by chance? If not how could one of us >>rocket peoples acquire such a map? [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > CD Kick butt! My buddy bought a 10 acre lot in southern MN and he wants me to me show off a few of my rockets. I haven't seen the plot myself but he swears it's perfect for some of my F/G birds. When were kids we used to fly together. Maybe this'll set the hook and get him off his lazy butt. Thanx! Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75 > Kick butt! My buddy bought a 10 acre lot in southern MN and he wants me > to me show off a few of my rockets. I haven't seen the plot myself but > he swears it's perfect for some of my F/G birds. > > When were kids we used to fly together. Maybe this'll set the hook and > get him off his lazy butt. yea, back in the day an I motor could kick a bruiser to 900 feet and stay under the 1200 foot control be careful, some areas in the upside down wedding cake of major airports have controlled airspace lower and some places to the ground, like around Detroit, Chi town, etc.. the sectionals will show all that in their legend. goggle controlled airspace and see all the info. >ya know that dog that scratches about while you are searching ? > >he came from the Microsoft Bob program Gates' wife put together, Ya mean he scrood the pooch? 8-) >>ya know that dog that scratches about while you are searching ? >> >>he came from the Microsoft Bob program Gates' wife put together, > > Ya mean he scrood the pooch? 8-) Oh wait, I thought You meant the dog's name was scrood. >scrood scrood = screwed - get it? >>scrood > > scrood = screwed - get it? Yeah, I get it, but I still think the dog's name should be scrood. > Yeah, I get it, but I still think the dog's name should be scrood. Thanks, You know years from now, every time I see that poor pooch scratching, I'm going to have the name scrood come to mind. > > > AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, do > > > you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a waiver? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > Jerry Irvine, Couldn't resist, could you Jerry?? > AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, > do you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a > waiver? So what is your point? I am sure you know all of this stuff already. Do you think amateur somehow has some different connotation separate of an unmanned or model rocket? Sheesh. Signaturegcisko@hotmail.com >AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, do >you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a waiver? > >shockie B) Whats a matter? You can't read? >>AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, >>do [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > Whats a matter? You can't read? Why can the poor guy ask a question without people jumping all over him! Sheesh. :-) Signaturegcisko@hotmail.com sheesh people.... 4 murders in one small thread.....no wonder nobody comes here and posts anymore... anyway...I was asking because I wasn't sure.....I figured there are people here who do AR/EX on a regular basis and would know for sure.... The question was put to me and I wanted to be sure.. shockie B) > AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, > do you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a > waiver? > > shockie B) >sheesh people.... 4 murders in one small thread.....no wonder nobody comes >here and posts anymore... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> shockie B) The problem is that you asked a question with a seemingly obvious answer. >The problem is that you asked a question with a seemingly obvious >answer. A guy could read the FAQ, check www.nar.org, or even try Google, but that's no fun. Model Rocketry is Fun. >>The problem is that you asked a question with a seemingly obvious >>answer. > >A guy could read the FAQ, check www.nar.org, or even try Google, but >that's no fun. Model Rocketry is Fun. Yeah. Especially when it's Shockie that asks - because he's probably read and memorized all that stuff, I have to wonder what he's up to. > sheesh people.... 4 murders in one small thread.....no wonder nobody comes > here and posts anymore... Yeah hey how about that. > anyway...I was asking because I wasn't sure.....I figured there are people > here who do AR/EX on a regular basis and would know for sure.... > > The question was put to me and I wanted to be sure.. Well assuming you are the real shockie, I am shocked ;-) On the NAR Sections list you were the expert's expert with an attitude. As Phil suggests and I already mentioned, you pretty much know all of this stuff already. If not, you were putting on a good song and dance in NAR Sections. Signaturegcisko@hotmail.com > shockie B) >> AT what point, in terms of propellant mass and /or overall rocket weight, >> do you have to notify the FAA of an amateur rocket launch and get a >> waiver? >> >> shockie B) |
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