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We are poor little lambs, who have lost our way, bah bah ... bah ...

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lunarlosREMOVE2EMAIL@juno.com - 22 Feb 2006 12:54 GMT
Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of
our country ... started with the communists of the 30s, then the beat
nicks of the 50s ... then the hippies of the 60s, and now the college
kids of the 100s ... nice, that a man like Pappy,  isn't alive to see
this left-winged crap of today.  Instead of being a hero, he is now a
"rich white guy" murderer on his Washington campus ... very sad indeed
... here is the link:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48808

BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
Students reject honor to 'Baa Baa Black Sheep' hero
Member of Marines not 'sort of person UW wanted to produce'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 14, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Lt. Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington during World War II (Photo: National
Archives)
The University of Washington's student senate rejected a memorial for
alumnus Gregory "Pappy" Boyington of "Black Sheep Squadron" fame amid
concerns a military hero who shot down enemy planes was not the right
kind of person to represent the school.

Student senator Jill Edwards, according to minutes of the student
government's meeting last week, said she "didn't believe a member of
the Marine Corps was an example of the sort of person UW wanted to
produce."

Ashley Miller, another senator, argued "many monuments at UW already
commemorate rich white men."

Senate member Karl Smith amended the resolution to eliminate a clause
that said Boyington "was credited with destroying 26 enemy aircraft,
tying the record for most aircraft destroyed by a pilot in American
Uniform," for which he was awarded the Navy Cross.

Smith, according to the minutes, said "the resolution should commend
Colonel Boyington's service, not his killing of others."

The senate's decision was reported first by Seattle radio talk-host
Kirby Wilbur of KVI, whose listeners were "absolutely incensed,"
according to producer Matt Haver.

Brent Ludeman, president of the university's College Republicans, told
WND in an e-mail the decision "reflects poorly on the university."

"Pappy Boyington went beyond the call of duty to serve and protect this
country - he simply deserves better," Ludeman said. "Just last year,
the university erected a memorial to diversity. Why can't we do the
same for Pappy Boyington and others who have defended our country?"

The resolution points out Boyington, a student at the UW from 1930-34,
served as a combat pilot in the 1st Squadron, American Volunteer Group
- the "Flying Tigers of China" - and later as a Marine Corps combat
pilot in charge of Marine Fighting Squadron 214, "The Black Sheep
Squadron."

Along with the Navy Cross, Boyington was awarded the Medal of Honor by
President Franklin D. Roosevelt for his heroism. He was shot down and
spent 20 months in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp.

The resolution says, "Be it resolved ... [t]hat we consider Col.
Gregory Boyington, United States Marine Corps, to be a prime example of
the excellence that this university represents and strives to impart
upon its students, and, That we desire for a memorial for Col.
Boyington be commenced by the University of Washington by 11 January
2008, the twentieth anniversary of his death, which will be publicly
displayed, so that all who come here in future years will know that the
University of Washington produced one of this country's bravest men,
and that we as a community hold this fact in the highest esteem."

Commenting on the decision, a blogger who says he met Boyington on
numerous occasions at a museum and air show over the years noted the
famous flyer "was no rich boy," having grown up in a struggling family
in which he was forced to work hard to make it through school. The
blogger, who hosts the website Paradosis, also pointed out Boyington
was part Sioux.

Boyington was open about his marital problems and alcohol abuse, saying
notably, "Just name a hero and I'll prove he's a bum."

The blogger wondered, "have our Washington youth revised history so
much as this? To compare Boyington - or for that matter any of our
WW2 vets - to murderers? What are these kids being taught today? They
don't deserve those 20 months Pappy spent being tortured and beaten in
a Japanese prison camp ... they don't deserve any of what our
grandfathers and grandmothers sacrificed to free Europe and the
Pacific."

Boyington wrote a book in 1958 that reached the best-seller list, "Baa
Baa, Black Sheep." In 1976, he sold rights to Universal, which aired a
TV series for two seasons of the same name.

Boyington, who died Jan. 11, 1988, is buried in Arlington National
Cemetery.
Robert Juliano - 22 Feb 2006 14:48 GMT
> Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of
> our country ... started with the communists of the 30s, then the beat
[quoted text clipped - 95 lines]
> Boyington, who died Jan. 11, 1988, is buried in Arlington National
> Cemetery.

I have to check into this a little bit more...

I keep wondering if the mouthy chick speaking against pappy was putting
her way through, or was she on a scholarship.

Bob (son of a naval combat aviator)
Greg Heilers - 22 Feb 2006 22:18 GMT
>> Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of
>> our country ... started with the communists of the 30s, then the beat
[quoted text clipped - 102 lines]
>
> Bob (son of a naval combat aviator)

There is updated information (actually, this story is
already a couple of weeks old):

http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02162006.html
(extensive coverage about 1/3 down the page)

And regarding the young lady in question, if you
wish to contact her directly:  jae6@u.washington.edu

:o)

Signature

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
AUS
   .....

He gets it from your side of the family, you know.  No monsters on my
side.

        -- Homer Simpson
          Treehouse of Horror II

Robert Juliano - 23 Feb 2006 00:43 GMT
>>>Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of
>>>our country ... started with the communists of the 30s, then the beat
[quoted text clipped - 113 lines]
>
> :o)

Greg,

Much as I'd love to correspond with her, I'd have to fight a damn-near
never ending battle against sending something like this:

Dear faux-liberale whinging bitch,

It has come to my attention that you feel - in your august and greatly
learned opinion - that somehow UW's standard of conduct and behavior
preclude a memorial to Lt. Col. Gregory Boyington, better known as
"Pappy." Lt. Col Boyington served with distinction in the United States
Marines Air Corps during the second World War, driving back virulently
aggressive and expansively imperialistic Japanese hegemony. During non
combat operations, "Pappy" boyington showed combined mechanical,
scientific, and artistic skill as a technical draftsman for Boeing Aviation.

During Combat Operations, Lt. Col Boyington demonstrated grace under
fire and aerial combat proficiency in downing some 28 enemy aircraft.
Lt. Col. Boyington maintained the standards of conduct and honor of the
United States Of America, and of the Marine Corps, and even that of all
aviators when kept in capitivity as a prisoner of war.

Now then,

1.) How does your life stack up against this short history? I am sure
that action on the croquet field is vicious, and that great skill must
be used in split second decisions, but I think that somehow, Pappy wins.

2.) Can you honestly say that your career (may it be short) as a
student, is somehow tougher than leading men and equipment into combat?
is your life tougher than organizing and maintaining said unit of men
and equipment?

3.) Pappy spent quite a bit of time as a prisoner of war. Unless the are
a survivor of long term sexual abuse, you have literally no possible
idea of what being a POW is like. Nor do you have any standard upon
which to judge Lt. Col. Boyington.

You make me deeply ashamed to know that you are an american, outraged to
know that you are a college student, and grievously insulted on behalf
of my fellow aviators.

I am thankful that we will never meet. I am thankful that I have
completed college. I am thankful that your path through life will have
little effect on the world as a whole. The only thing that troubles me,
is the question of how many women in this country are as profoundly
asinine as you.

Respectfully,

Robert H. Juliano
Instructor, inventor, rocketeer, and pilot

......

of course... that would be a mean letter
D&JWatkins - 23 Feb 2006 01:44 GMT
   Well send it then damnit man!!! This little twit and all like her should
be given a full pass to Iraq under command of the Marines or Army. Then they
will know what they are talking about.

   Dennis

>>>>Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of
>>>>our country ... started with the communists of the 30s, then the beat
[quoted text clipped - 170 lines]
>
> of course... that would be a mean letter
Robert Juliano - 23 Feb 2006 01:52 GMT
>     Well send it then damnit man!!! This little twit and all like her should
> be given a full pass to Iraq under command of the Marines or Army. Then they
[quoted text clipped - 176 lines]
>>
>>of course... that would be a mean letter

D&J,

Now now...

There is no need to be mean-spirited...

The poor little lady has pretty much guaranteed her lack of good job
prospects, decent companionship, and/or any respect by the
aviation/rocketry/technical community.

I'll sit on my letter for a bit... If I still feel she hasn't had enough
grief by friday, off it goes.

Bob
Greg Heilers - 23 Feb 2006 03:06 GMT
>>     Well send it then damnit man!!! This little twit and all like her should
>> be given a full pass to Iraq under command of the Marines or Army. Then they
>> will know what they are talking about.
>>
>>     Dennis

I was in the process of writing her.  I think you should as
well, but it can be done in a "nice" way, without losing any
of your passion.  

Point out the sacrifices Boyington made,
and that he suffered *real* torture as a POW (as opposed to
having your photo made, having dogs bark at you, having to
do exercises at the crack of dawn while guards yell at you,
having female guards flirt with you, etc...).  

Also, in response to the other young lady's "rich, white
male" remark...point out that Boyington was never "rich",
nor even really "white" (being of Sioux ancestry).

By the tone of the young lady's personal blog
( http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02162006.html )
referring to Boyington as "a colonel from WWII", she
suggests that she has never even heard of the man, not
to mention not taking the time to learn about him.

Some have suggested that since it is "their" (the
students') campus, that they should not be challenged.
Point out that they are simply temporary occupants
of classroom seats.  If the campus "belongs" to
anyone, it is the taxpayers and/or the private and
public benefactors which support the university.  And
then point out that most of these are undoubtedly their
despised "rich, white males".

And finally, point out that as students, they are *not*
to considered full adults yet.  They are still going
through life figuratively wearing a "Trainee" badge.
They have not yet *earned* the luxury of being handed
a stake in big decisions, not is their judgment yet
worthy of being trusted, nor taken seriously.


> The poor little lady has pretty much guaranteed her lack of good job
> prospects, decent companionship, and/or any respect by the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Bob

Signature

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
AUS
   .....

He gets it from your side of the family, you know.  No monsters on my
side.

        -- Homer Simpson
          Treehouse of Horror II

randyolb@charter.net - 23 Feb 2006 03:14 GMT
>  Well send it then damnit man!!! This little twit and all like her should
> be given a full pass to Iraq under command of the Marines or Army. Then they
> will know what they are talking about.

Send it to her, send her to Iraq, but don't send the little idiot to the
Marines. My daughter is coming home from her 3rd deployment next week and I
really don't want the likes of this moron around a real Marine.

Ooh Rah!

Randy
www.vernarockets.com
Greg Heilers - 23 Feb 2006 03:26 GMT
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:14:48 -0600, randyolb wrote:

>>  Well send it then damnit man!!! This little twit and all like her should
>> be given a full pass to Iraq under command of the Marines or Army. Then
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Randy
> www.vernarockets.com

What is your daughter's name?  I would be proud to
hang a "Welcome Home _________________" sign in
window.

Signature

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
AUS
   .....

He gets it from your side of the family, you know.  No monsters on my
side.

        -- Homer Simpson
          Treehouse of Horror II

Robert Juliano - 23 Feb 2006 03:30 GMT
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:14:48 -0600, randyolb wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> hang a "Welcome Home _________________" sign in
> window.

I second that thought (even though the sign will be in a 3rd floor
window, facing the woods.)

I'll also put one of the side of my shop.

Bob
randyolb@charter.net - 23 Feb 2006 03:49 GMT
> What is your daughter's name?

Kimberly.

Thanks for the offer but she doesn't want any special recognition, she's
just doing what she is trained for and loves to do and she'd want the little
idiot to be able to speak her mind even if she thought she was a complete
dolt. I however...  ; )

Randy
www.vernarockets.com
raydunakin@aol.com - 23 Feb 2006 05:42 GMT
> Student senator Jill Edwards, according to minutes of the student
> government's meeting last week, said she "didn't believe a member of
> the Marine Corps was an example of the sort of person UW wanted to
> produce."

She's not only dissing Boyington, but all Marines everywhere!

±
lunarlosREMOVE2EMAIL@juno.com - 23 Feb 2006 13:37 GMT
> > Student senator Jill Edwards, according to minutes of the student
> > government's meeting last week, said she "didn't believe a member of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> ±

Maybe Bob Kaplow should make some formal statement on this matter?  I
mean OBVIOUSLY, Pappy joined the Marines NOT to serve and defend his
country, but as a way to get free room and board, a trip to the South
Pacific, and 20 months in a Jap
prison camp!  Right Kaplow?  Oh, and don't forget the college tuition
that didn't exist until after the war (murders).
Bob Kaplow - 23 Feb 2006 19:00 GMT
> Maybe Bob Kaplow should make some formal statement on this matter?  I
> mean OBVIOUSLY, Pappy joined the Marines NOT to serve and defend his
> country, but as a way to get free room and board, a trip to the South
> Pacific, and 20 months in a Jap
> prison camp!  Right Kaplow?  Oh, and don't forget the college tuition
> that didn't exist until after the war (murders).

Actually, I already did before I read this post.

Who are you anyway? You seem to know me from way back. Answer in private if you like.

Signature

 Bob Kaplow   NAR # 18L   >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
   www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org

    S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

Bob Kaplow - 23 Feb 2006 18:58 GMT
>> Student senator Jill Edwards, according to minutes of the student
>> government's meeting last week, said she "didn't believe a member of
>> the Marine Corps was an example of the sort of person UW wanted to
>> produce."
>
> She's not only dissing Boyington, but all Marines everywhere!

I remember getting the tour of Garber after NARAM-31. They showed us the
corsair thay had restored. Sticklers for details, they wouldn't put "Pappy"s
anme on it, because it wasn't his plane. But when he got a private tour and
they showed it to him, it brought tears to his eyes. He autographed inside
one of the wheel wells to the folks that did the restoration. This was
shortly before he died.

You can disapprove of the military actions this country has ended up in due
to bad leadership at the very top without disrespecting the men and women
that serve in our military, by choice. "Pappy" was one of our heros.

When I was a LOT younger, I made the realization that the military and I
were not a good match. Yet from the folks I've known from that background, I
have nothing but the highest respect for the quality of leadership that they
turn out. My father and most of his generation fought in WWII. In rocketry,
there are folks like Trip, Chas, Matt and many others. At work the two best
managers I ever worked for served on "Boomers" together.  Thank you all.

Signature

 Bob Kaplow   NAR # 18L   >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
   www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org

    S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver!

default - 23 Feb 2006 19:42 GMT
> When I was a LOT younger, I made the realization that the military and I
> were not a good match. Yet from the folks I've known from that background, I
> have nothing but the highest respect for the quality of leadership that they
> turn out. My father and most of his generation fought in WWII. In rocketry,
> there are folks like Trip, Chas, Matt and many others. At work the two best
> managers I ever worked for served on "Boomers" together.  Thank you all.

Bob,   You and I don't see I to eye on many issues but here we stand
united.  I admit taking jabs at your statements from time to time, then
you have the audacity to pen this.  :)  I couldn't have said it better
for myself as well.  Way to go 'ole chap.  Hope we meet up again at a
launch.

sincerely,
steve bloom
Zathras of the Great Machine - 25 Feb 2006 14:15 GMT
 Not only do I disagree with the opinion that Pappy's monument
shouldn't be built, I rather take exception with the way us
subversive-pinko-commie-longhaired-hippie-marajuana
addict-weirdo-sedicious-liberals are all getting lumped in together on
this issue. Obviously this is an obvious myopic oversight, and/or plot,
caused by them thar rich fat cat-gun toting-Republican-right
wing-redneck-extremists, in non-union southern "right to work" states.

Did I cover enough cliche terms?

A momument to Pappy sets well by me. But if they ever erect one to Bush
(of either generation), anywhere, I'll keep birdseed around it 7/24's so
our feathered friends can do to it what I'd get arrested for trying
myself.   Thomas Jefferson (not Empress Hilary) in '08!

>Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of our country ...
>  
Greg Heilers - 25 Feb 2006 16:10 GMT
>   Not only do I disagree with the opinion that Pappy's monument
> shouldn't be built, I rather take exception with the way us
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Did I cover enough cliche terms?

I don't think anyone on this thread has intentionally
"lumped" *all* Liberals/Leftists together.  But
there *is* a certain all-too-common mindset within
the thought processes, of young Liberal students, at
Liberal-leaning universities...a definite "herd
mentality" that seeks to punish and ignore anything
that is "traditional", "conservative", or any opinion
that does not go out of its way to kiss-a.s to its
own, narrow-minded left-leaning ideals.  But, remember,
our remarks are targeted to these aforementioned
"group members". (Yes...they are a group, operating
in group mentality...the idea of individuality, and
succeeding on one's own abilities, is offensive to them).
There are many "Liberals" who would be offended by
these students' anti-American and anti-Military remarks...
but you are unlikely to find *these* decent people
within the ranks of college students.

Plus, remember that the controversy is not so much
about the opposition to recognizing Boyington...but
for the apparent lack of self-educating of the students.
Their referring to him as a "rich, white male" is the
perfect example.  He was neither "rich", nor really
"white" (having much Native American ancestry).  And
Miss Edwards referring to him simply as "a colonel in
WWII" seems to suggest that before this issue had arisen,
she had never even heard of him, nor did she educate
herself once the issue was brought up...she simply
slammed him without even knowing who he was.

Now...Boyington was *no* saint.  He was a self-admitted
alcoholic, and by some accounts, an abusive husband.
These are issues that might be brought up to keep
him from being memorialized...but none of this was ever
mentioned.  The opposition was based solely on his being
a member of the military, and a "rich, white male".
(I bet the majority of the tax money, and private
donations, which keep this university running...comes from
these hated "rich, white males").

*That* is why the controversy is brewing.

> A momument to Pappy sets well by me. But if they ever erect one to Bush
> (of either generation), anywhere, I'll keep birdseed around it 7/24's so
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of our country ...
>>  

Signature

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
AUS
   .....

He gets it from your side of the family, you know.  No monsters on my
side.

        -- Homer Simpson
          Treehouse of Horror II

Robert Juliano - 25 Feb 2006 16:53 GMT
Greg,

On of the things that I require (stringently so) from my students is the
ability to construct a proper argument. 30% of their grade is based on
their ability to take in data, evaluate said data as to their value as
facts, link the facts into accepted logical chains, and be able to
defend the result.

One of the problems that this country seems to be facing, is that we
focus only on the college liberal group-mind, or the college republican
group-mind, to the exclusion of one or the other. Also, we seem to be
attempting to lump certain sets of actions into only handful of labels.
The liberals seem to be having a serious schism at this point, and the
conservatives seem to be heading for a 3 way loose coalition of
"moderates," hegemonists, and bible as social control.

Personally, I think the whole thing is fun to watch... outside of the
blast range...

Thom Jefferson and Ted Roosevelt in '08!

>>  Not only do I disagree with the opinion that Pappy's monument
>>shouldn't be built, I rather take exception with the way us
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> *That* is why the controversy is brewing.
Greg Heilers - 25 Feb 2006 19:48 GMT
> Personally, I think the whole thing is fun to watch... outside of the
> blast range...
>
> Thom Jefferson and Ted Roosevelt in '08!

TR - probably the most UNDER-appreciated President
we have ever had the pleasure of having serving us.
...And the *one* good reason to enjoy the movie
"The Wind And The Lion"!

:o)

Signature

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
AUS
   .....

He gets it from your side of the family, you know.  No monsters on my
side.

        -- Homer Simpson
          Treehouse of Horror II

 
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