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Model Forum / General / Rockets / February 2006Plugging a booster engine
If I don't need an ejection charge, and don't want combustion products flowing up into my craft, is it possible/reasonable to plug the fore end of a booster engine (part of a cluster)? I was considering a teaspoon or so of epoxy. Any better ideas? Rick You could plug the motor tubes, and allow the motors to eject themselves. Or, use A10-PT's, D11-P's or E9-P's, which are already plugged. If you epoxy the motor fore end, at least make sure you remove the ejection charge. If youe already using a delayed engine, all you need to do is remove the ejection charge, no need to epoxy it the delay train acts as a plug. You can epoxy 0 delay engines it does work. However both methods are not recommended by Estes, therefore are a violation of the saftey code, so I didn't say it. >You could plug the motor tubes, and allow the motors to eject themselves. > >Or, use A10-PT's, D11-P's or E9-P's, which are already plugged. > >If you epoxy the motor fore end, at least make sure you remove the ejection charge. > If I don't need an ejection charge, and don't want combustion products > flowing up into my craft, is it possible/reasonable to plug the fore end > of a booster engine (part of a cluster)? I was considering a teaspoon > or so of epoxy. Any better ideas? First question is what are you building? Estes kit? Your own design? Can you describe it? It's hard to offer options without more information. If you don't want the "burn through" from going up into your rocket, the only way to stop 100% of the particles from filling a compartment, is to install a bulk head to block them. What are you using for engine retention? On some of ours we intentionally install the engines to eject themselves for several reasons, one of which is to limit what you described and prevent crud build up. If you're flying at an NAR competition or on a field that restricts motors ejecting themselves, then that isn't an option. Randy www.vernarockets.com You're both incredible morons. G. Harry Stine is probably spinning in his grave. I hope that there are no injuries due to your "advice." I'd hate to be the model rocketeer who's expendable model rocket casing "fell out " of his model because he intentionally designed it that way, especially if it hit my grandson. There wouldn't be enough pieces left for a decent burial. > You're both incredible morons. G. Harry Stine is probably spinning in > his grave. I hope that there are no injuries due to your "advice." I'd > hate to be the model rocketeer who's expendable model rocket casing > "fell out " of his model because he intentionally designed it that > way, especially if it hit my grandson. There wouldn't be enough > pieces left for a decent burial. Then never fly an Estes Mosquito, Quark or Streak, nor a Quest HL-20. All these rockets, from big-time rocket companies, eject the motors, by design. While they are sometimes not allowed at club launches, there is nothing in the safety code against them. Furthermore, in the case of the Mosquito, Quark and Streak, the rockets come in ballistic, and will hurt a lot more than the tumbling (draggy) motor cases. None of them will hurt you as long as you watch them, and step out of the way if necessary. That's easy to do as long as they aren't over-motored and flown out of sight. Doug > All these rockets, from big-time rocket companies, eject the motors, by > design. Point 1 > While they are sometimes not allowed at club launches, there is nothing > in the safety code against them. Point 2. > Furthermore, in the case of the Mosquito, Quark and Streak, the rockets > come in ballistic, and will hurt a lot more than the tumbling (draggy) > motor cases. Point 3. > None of them will hurt you as long as you watch them, and step out of > the way if necessary. That's easy to do as long as they aren't > over-motored and flown out of sight. Point 4. In which case they would most likely fall well down range. Randy www.vernarockets.com Takes one to know one genius. There are times I let them eject and others I don't. I've been flying rockets this way since 1968, over 2500 flights, never had a problem or injury. Considering the density of your head I don't think you'd be in any danger. Why would you or your grandson be out on the range while launches are in progress? I suggest you keep yourself and yourselves off the range while rockets are in the air. If that's your concern, there's much more to worry about than a single B6-0 casing falling on your head. Ejecting an Estes A-B-C motor is no more dangerous than flying any rocket on a streamer. As far as pieces go, I fly in B'ham Alabama almost every BRB launch. I'm easy to find. Randy www.vernarockets.com Thanks. The fact that you're Alabama explains alot. BTW who's the biotch in the pic? > Thanks. The fact that you're Alabama explains alot. BTW who's the > biotch in the pic? Get cancer. Die. Screaming. TK  SignatureSo many fools, so few bullets. > Thanks. The fact that you're Alabama explains alot. BTW who's the > biotch in the pic? Your mom. Randy > > Thanks. The fact that you're Alabama explains alot. BTW who's the > > biotch in the pic? > > Your mom. > > Randy Randy strikes back with an oldie but a goodie! "Yo momma". That one made me laugh. Just keep a chicken (or chickens) on the range with you. If he shows up, smack him with it. Or better yet, toss them in the car when he isn't looking. Let him deal with a car full of pissed off chickens. Everyone can stand around throwing expended motor casings at him while he deals with the chickens. SignatureTweak > Thanks. The fact that you're Alabama explains alot. BTW who's the > biotch in the pic? No need for a qualifying moron response to my last post, you more than qualified with the above statement. Fred > Thanks. The fact that you're Alabama explains alot. BTW who's the > biotch in the pic? ...do you speak of women that way in front of your grandson, whom you allege to care about? You know, the one who you'd beat up another rocketeer in front of, if their casing hit him? Let's see here.... 1. You're a foul-mouthed misogynist (sorry if that last word is hard for you, look it up). 2. You threaten others with violence over HYPOTHETICAL accidents. 3. You're absolutely CLUELESS on the issue of range safety and acceptable safe practices. 4. You slander others based on negative stereotyped attitudes, based solely on their geographical location. ....Would you like to add to this? Hey, maybe you can fire some religious/racial epithets my way! That'd set a GREAT example for your grandson, wouldn't it! Maybe you could call his mom a biotch in front of him, to impress him! Maybe slap the old lady around too, show him how to be a REAL man! You want to do your grandson a REAL favor? Stay the hell away from him, before you turn him into a copy of your own loathsome, dispicable self, you piece of filth. > G. Harry Stine is probably spinning in > his grave. I'd rather doubt that. He designed many rockets to eject their casings. And he also played about with others in taking ejection charges out of B.2-2 motors to do delayed staging back in the old days IIRC. >You're both incredible morons. G. Harry Stine is probably spinning in >his grave. I hope that there are no injuries due to your "advice." I'd >hate to be the model rocketeer who's expendable model rocket casing >"fell out " of his model because he intentionally designed it that >way, especially if it hit my grandson. There wouldn't be enough >pieces left for a decent burial. Just put a cork in it! ;) > You're both incredible morons. G. Harry Stine is probably spinning in > his grave. I hope that there are no injuries due to your "advice." I'd > hate to be the model rocketeer who's expendable model rocket casing > "fell out " of his model because he intentionally designed it that > way, especially if it hit my grandson. There wouldn't be enough > pieces left for a decent burial. Speaking of morons, when did you receive your moron certification? Just in case you don't remember, you are re-certified.. Looking forward to your qualifying response.. > You're both incredible morons. G. Harry Stine is probably spinning in > his grave. I hope that there are no injuries due to your "advice." I'd > hate to be the model rocketeer who's expendable model rocket casing > "fell out " of his model because he intentionally designed it that > way, especially if it hit my grandson. There wouldn't be enough > pieces left for a decent burial. Joseph, Please explain to us exactly what you and/or your grandson is doing out on the range, while birds are being launched. You really shouldn't be out there when the range is closed. If I see you entering MY range when it's closed, you'll get yelled at by the LCO, over the P.A. Enter it a second time, and you'll be cordially invited to leave the site, and never return. SignatureJames L. Marino SAS, LUNAR, TCC, AEROPAC, NAR #75764 L3 TRA #9489 L3 JPS Propulsion KI6BZS (@ @) ---o00-(_)-00o--- Will Work for AP <snip clueless nonsense> What is your real name, so people can avoid flying with you nearby, since you've just stated that it's your intention to use physical violence upon anyone involved in an accident with you? > First question is what are you building? Estes kit? Your own design? Can you > describe it? It's hard to offer options without more information. Just in the thinking stage of a bird resembling the Japanese H-IIA or the Long March 3B. Relatively narrow main fuselage with two or three strap-on boosters attached externally. The strap-ons won't contribute to recovery deployment, and I'd rather not rain expended casings down on the range. I can't help but think that pressurizing a structure that's not much bigger than the engine might be troublesome. > What are you using for engine retention? Metal clips. I understand the challenges of having cluster engines far away from the centerline of the craft. I've seen the half circle flight path with powered decent, and would not like to repeat it. Rick Rick, > Just in the thinking stage of a bird resembling the Japanese H-IIA or > the Long March 3B. Relatively narrow main fuselage with two or three > strap-on boosters attached externally. Ok, that's simple enough. >I can't help but think that pressurizing a structure that's > not much bigger than the engine might be troublesome. Yep. I assume that since you won't be using any type of recovery system with them, they will be permanently attached to the main bt and the nose cone will be permanently attached to the bt of the strap ons. What you're describing are the short stubby strap ons, right? I'd suggest using at least bt 50 and making them 2" longer or more, than the engine mounts and use small screws on opposite sides to secure the cones. Don't glue them on. This will allow you to remove the cones from time to time for cleaning the crud build up in the tubes. In a bt that short, it will build up quickly. If you are going to retain the motors, you will definitely need to drill 2 -3, 1/4" vent holes on opposite sides of each booster about half way between the top of the engine mount and the bottom of the nose cone to prevent over pressurization. > I understand the challenges of having cluster engines far away from the > centerline of the craft. I've seen the half circle flight path with > powered decent, and would not like to repeat it. All you need to do is make sure your cg is where it should be, you may need to add some nose weight to the main bt nose cone, depending on the length of the main bt. You can see several variations of this on our website www.vernarockets.com Good luck! Randy www.vernarockets.com |
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