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Model Forum / General / Rockets / October 2006Copperheads & Aerotech...any tips?
Hello, was out at the park yesterday and finally got to fly my Onyx...beautiful flight on an F20-4 Econojet. My question for the group is this...my wife & I had a devil of a time trying to get the ignitor inserted into the slot in the propellent grain. Took us nearly half an hour for the F25-6 motor I had hoped to use for a second flight (but then the ignitor turned out to be bad so we gave up!). As it stands now, trying to insert the ignitor is like trying to push a wet noodle it just wants to bend rather than go into the slot and several ignitors had the pyrogen fall apart trying to get them inserted. Does anybody have any tips they care to share on how this process might be made a little easier? Any tools you use? Other brands of ignitor to consider? Thank you! Craig If the accordion folded tip is not completely covered in pyrogen, it can flop around (wet noodle) and be annoying to insert. if you get one with pyrogen completely covering the accordion folded area and just below, the pyrogen stiffens it and allows it to be inserted easily. Notify Aerotech of your igniter difficulties. If you got defective igniters, they should send you replacements. Magnelite pyrogen on thin wires with nichrome wire at the tip works great for me as a replacement igniter. http://www.rocketflite.com/products.asp -Fred Shecter NAR 20117  Signature"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply. http://www.sirius.com/ > Hello, was out at the park yesterday and finally got to fly my > Onyx...beautiful flight on an F20-4 Econojet. My question for the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > consider? Thank you! > Craig >Hello, was out at the park yesterday and finally got to fly my >Onyx...beautiful flight on an F20-4 Econojet. My question for the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >consider? Thank you! > Craig Sometimes the nozzle throat is plugged because the molding process didn't happen correctly. When that has happened, I used an Exacto knife for clean out the hole. Don't enlarge the hole. On RMS motors, I've put the ignitor in through the nozzle and into the core while assambling the motor. This isn't the greatest way to do it from a safety perspective. If in the unlikely event the ignitor lights, it could ruin your day. Phil > >Hello, was out at the park yesterday and finally got to fly my > >Onyx...beautiful flight on an F20-4 Econojet. My question for the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Phil Ever wonder just how unlikely that is? I was watching "Dirty Jobs" the other night, and they were working in a coal mine. Guy drills some holes in the wall, then walks up with a box of dynamite sticks and yep, you guessed it, the electrical devices to cause the explosion were already inserted into the dynamite. SignatureTweak > On RMS motors, I've put the ignitor in through the nozzle and into the > core while assambling the motor. This isn't the greatest way to do it > from a safety perspective. If in the unlikely event the ignitor > lights, it could ruin your day. That's very unlikely, and the danger would be less than if the same unlikely event occurred when you inserted the igniter the "right" way. The real concern about inserting the igniter during assembly is that the igniter head can't exit the nozzle during ignition, thereby plugging the nozzle and causing a CATO. Shouldn't be a problem with the igniter that came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. SignatureSteve Humphrey (replace "spambait" with "merlinus" to respond directly to me) ok. Change unlikely to very unlikely. Still, no matter how unlikely, they should know it is possible. As far as clogging the nozzle, if they cleaned out the nozzle as suggested in my first statement, it shouldn't happen. Phil >> On RMS motors, I've put the ignitor in through the nozzle and into the >> core while assambling the motor. This isn't the greatest way to do it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. AT's instructions for the 18mm reload is to: Install forward end Install fuel Install ignitor install nozzle and aft end. The B7 motors from Apogee were about the most difficult (came with baby copperheads)! Andy > ok. Change unlikely to very unlikely. Still, no matter how unlikely, > they should know it is possible. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. > >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. > AT's instructions for the 18mm reload is to: > > Install forward end > Install fuel > Install ignitor > install nozzle and aft end. I've made hand dipped igniters small enough to ignite these motors, that can be installed after assembly. > The B7 motors from Apogee were about the most difficult (came with baby > copperheads)! They work fine on these motors too. An old friend told me that the best igniter for thse small composites were the old MRC igniters, which are the same as the new Quest igniters. SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver! Many RSOs (including me) request that the ignitor be out of the motor before it is checked. With small motors, I would probably let it slide if the flier told me they were having problems. Phil >AT's instructions for the 18mm reload is to: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. >> >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. ModRoc RMS motor instructions say to install the Copperhead igniter before installing the nozzle. Even the 29mm G64's. > Many RSOs (including me) request that the ignitor be out of the motor > before it is checked. With small motors, I would probably let it [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >>> >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. >>> >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. I know. It doesn't change anything for me. Thanks for mentioning it. Phil >ModRoc RMS motor instructions say to install the Copperhead igniter before >installing the nozzle. Even the 29mm G64's. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>>> >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. >>>> >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. I've seen it, too. I still never install the ignitor until I take it to the pad. I stopped using Copperheads in favor of Firestar ignitors. I never had one fail on me, and the smallest ones fit easily into an Aerotech C-slot. I have used them successfully in 18mm reloadable motors. Bill Sullivan > I know. It doesn't change anything for me. Thanks for mentioning it. > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > >>>> >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. > >>>> >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. So you're enforcing a rule that is not required by law or safety code because _you_ think it is a good idea? Do you work for the ATF? SignatureTom Koszuta Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers Buffalo, NY >I know. It doesn't change anything for me. Thanks for mentioning it. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >>>>> >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. >>>>> >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. > So you're enforcing a rule that is not required by law or safety code > because _you_ think it is a good idea? I still want to see the data substantiating the claims that ignitors go off spontaneously. I have several boxes of various e-matches and ignitors, have had for years, and have yet to have one "go off" sitting in my range box. SignatureTweak >I still want to see the data substantiating the claims that ignitors go >off spontaneously. I have several boxes of various e-matches and >ignitors, have had for years, and have yet to have one "go off" sitting >in my range box. This is what was said: "Igniters built around an ematch, however, can accidently ignite under the right, but rare, circumstances when electricity is not connected to the igniter leads." I'm sorry that you do not understand "rare circumstances"? If you want to know what the rare circumstances are, do a Google search or talk to a blaster. If you don't like the word "rare", how about "unlikely to be encountered by the rocketry hobbiest or pyrotechnician"? By the way, ematches are regulated by the ATF. They should not be stored in your range box. >> So you're enforcing a rule that is not required by law or safety code >> because _you_ think it is a good idea? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >ignitors, have had for years, and have yet to have one "go off" sitting >in my range box. I haven't seen it either. That doesn't mean it hasn't or couldn't happen. If I spend several hours of my day volunteering, I expect - no demand a little consideration. If someone else wants to do it so I don't have to, they are VERY welcome. So I'm wondering if "Mister Are DO You Work For The ATF" spends at least a few volunteering at every launch. Phil >I still want to see the data substantiating the claims that ignitors go >off spontaneously. http://trs.nis.nasa.gov/archive/00000094/01/sp8051.pdf > >I still want to see the data substantiating the claims that ignitors go > >off spontaneously. > > http://trs.nis.nasa.gov/archive/00000094/01/sp8051.pdf NASA. 1971. 110 pages of info about ignitors, and nothing I saw relevant to spontaneous ignition aside from a mention that ignitors shall be tested to show they are not susceptible to electrostatic discharge and that systems are to be tested to determine their susceptibility to accidental ignition from current induced electromagnetic radiation. This covered hypergolic, pyro, and a handful of other ignition methodologies. But it was 110 pages of a scanned document (I could not search), so perhaps I missed something. Anyway, this applies to modern dipped ematches used in toy rockets exactly how....? That said, you must have one serious bug up your a.s to still be gnawing on this bone. Ok, you win. SignatureTweak Phil is not the only one that uses and enforces the no igniter installed rule at the RSO table, for composite motors. BTW, why would you ask the ATF question? Was it a joke -- didn't see a smiley face?? Fred > So you're enforcing a rule that is not required by law or safety code > because _you_ think it is a good idea? [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > >>>>> >came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. > >>>>> >Just check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. >So you're enforcing a rule that is not required by law or safety code >because _you_ think it is a good idea? > >Do you work for the ATF? That_is_right. If you don't like it, wait untill someone else is RSO. No I don't. If you don't like it, you can be RSO. If a motor goes off in your face, I'll be the guy laughing. Phil Phil, How about monotube hybrids, which must be assembled with the igniter in place? Since it's not an assembled engine until the N2O is added, will you inspect them with the igniter in place? Kevin OCassen >Phil, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Kevin OCassen As I mentioned in my original post, I can be flexible. You mention a valid reason. - But don't tell the guys that accuse me of working for ATF. I'm way less likely to be flexible with one of them - unless they give me what I consider a valid reason to be. And that is a capital / bold / emphasized I - like it or not. I don't look to bust balls - just to minimize the possibility of bad things happening. SO; how many people put an ignitor in before the rocket is vertical? How many people put clips on their ignitor before the rocket is verticle? How many people short the clips together berfore they clip onto the ignitor? Did you know that a relay can be stuck in a way that will put power to the ignitor as soon as you touch it with the clips. This can be cause by a mechanical malfunction or from the contacts getting welded together. Phil Phil >> Phil, >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > SO; how many people put an ignitor in before the rocket is vertical? I do. Every time. > How many people put clips on their ignitor before the rocket is > verticle? Never. > How many people short the clips together berfore they clip onto the > ignitor? Always! > Did you know that a relay can be stuck in a way that will put power to > the ignitor as soon as you touch it with the clips. This can be cause [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Phil > Phil That's why I touch the clips together to verify that exact same scenario. Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75 > How many people short the clips together berfore they clip onto the > ignitor? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > by a mechanical malfunction or from the contacts getting welded > together. Why are people launching in violation of the safety code? There must be a safety interlock in series with the launch switch. In a relay system, that is the relay. No safety in series with the relay is far WORSE than walking around with an igniter in the motor. I've seen 2 HPR motors go off in the fliers face because the controller did not have this simple safety feature. You can read about one of them there: http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/lessons/hotwire.aspx > Phil > Phil >> How many people short the clips together berfore they clip onto the >> ignitor? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Phil >> Phil If everything is operating correctly and the system confirms to out safety rules, it should not happen. When there is a malfunction in the system, bad things can happen. Phil If a motor goes off in my face, I will be the poster child for why you do not install igniters in modroc motors before they are vertical. You can say that Tom Koszuta would not have had this happen if he listened to Phil. My point is simple: don't treat modrocs like HPR You are enforcing rules that do not exist. Installation of HPR iginters is in the NAR safety code. Installation of modroc igniters is not. This is not my opinion, it is fact. I don't RSO. I've done some very limited LCO. My volunteer work is that I hang around on Sunday after the last lauch to help breakdown. I usually don't get to the site early enough on Saturday (or Friday) to help setup, but sometimes I do. >>So you're enforcing a rule that is not required by law or safety code >>because _you_ think it is a good idea? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Phil >If a motor goes off in my face, I will be the poster child for why you do >not install igniters in modroc motors before they are vertical. You can say [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >don't get to the site early enough on Saturday (or Friday) to help setup, >but sometimes I do. As I mentioned I do have some flexibility. I'm usually not at RSO more than 2-4 hours unless it is at PARA. There, I usually do it all day. If you are determined to put that ignitor in because the rules don't say you can't, find a different RSO. If you haven't done it, don't tell me how to do it. If you don't like it tough s..t. Phil If you want to avoid it lighting by itself short the lead until its ready for launch. For crapperheads you will have to use a microclip or something.... SignatureTAI FU >> On RMS motors, I've put the ignitor in through the nozzle and into the >> core while assambling the motor. This isn't the greatest way to do it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > came with the reload, but it might be a problem with other igniters. Just > check the fit in the nozzle to make sure. I think I've got it! :-) Tonight I tried inserting the ignitors from home, and found that if I use my laser pointer to first spot the slot, then mark where that slot is with my finger, I can slide the ignitor in. Much easier if I can see where the slot is and what angle of attack I need for inserting the ignitor. (I use the laser pointer as it gives me a nice bright spot on the propellent grain that seems to illuminate the entire grain.) Think what I'll do is just pre-insert ignitors into the motors I plan to use that day as a time saving measure. My thanks for all the replies...I do have an AT clip, but I actually find tape on my micro clips (smooth jawed) seems to work better. I can get the clips on more quickly without undue bending of the fine copper ribbon. I'm intrigued by the Magnelites, though. I just might make up a batch by dipping the pyrogen onto coils of very fine nichrome wire. Might make for a smaller ignitor that is easier to insert for the times that the slots give me trouble. Should also be more reliable for clustering too. Craig I like igniterman better... you can use any scrap wire you have laying around. As for laser pointers, make sure you use a 5 dollar 5 milliwatt red laser pointer!!! DO NOT use a wicked laser... not only you risk blinding yourself, but you might actually light the motor with the laser! (they are powerful enough to light matches, I can light match with mines) SignatureTAI FU >I think I've got it! :-) Tonight I tried inserting the ignitors from home, >and found that if I use my laser pointer to first spot the slot, then mark [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > give me trouble. Should also be more reliable for clustering too. > Craig Interesting...I didn't think ANY consumer pointer was that powerful! Thanks for the tip. Luckily, mine is a low power model. It's built into a ball point pen and previously I used it to torment...er play :-) with the dog (it bugs him when the spot lands on his paw and then darts under a chair...he goes sniffing after it, which begs the question...just what does a spot of light smell like! :-) ). Craig >I like igniterman better... you can use any scrap wire you have laying >around. As for laser pointers, make sure you use a 5 dollar 5 milliwatt red >laser pointer!!! DO NOT use a wicked laser... not only you risk blinding >yourself, but you might actually light the motor with the laser! (they are >powerful enough to light matches, I can light match with mines) > Interesting...I didn't think ANY consumer pointer was that powerful! Thanks > for the tip. Luckily, mine is a low power model. It's built into a ball > point pen and previously I used it to torment...er play :-) with the dog (it > bugs him when the spot lands on his paw and then darts under a chair...he > goes sniffing after it, which begs the question...just what does a spot of > light smell like! :-) ). Unlike cats, dogs seem to know where the light is coming from. My dog goes nuts as soon as the laser pointer (or maglite) is in my hand. And she even goes to the drawer that they are kept in, stares at the drawer, then at you, and will bark until you get the hint. Recently I was in a room, and shined the laser UNDER the door and drove her nuts with that. Of course you have to be careful. I heard a story from someoe who always shined the laser pointer onthe same spot on the wood kitchen floor. One day they left the dog alone, and he decided to find the spot, UNDER the floor. The supposedly indestructible floor. that the manufacturer witht he lifetime warranty couldn't believe had been destroyed by a dog. SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver! > Unlike cats, dogs seem to know where the light is coming from. My dog goes > nuts as soon as the laser pointer (or maglite) is in my hand. And she even > goes to the drawer that they are kept in, stares at the drawer, then at > you, > and will bark until you get the hint. One of our cats will immediately look at me when I turn off the laser pointer while the other continues to look for the dot. Our dog isn't interested in the dot at all. -- Roger > > Unlike cats, dogs seem to know where the light is coming from. My dog goes > > nuts as soon as the laser pointer (or maglite) is in my hand. And she even [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -- Roger Where I live, we have some geckos that come out at night during the summer. I noticed that they will crawl toward the laser spot. I guess they think it is a bug. try this one.... http://www.wickedlasers.com/ those greens are on the order of 55mw or 75mw and stuff... they will light matches. I have the 55mw ones, and I tweaked it a bit by turning the pot and now it lights matches in less than one second. It will warm up though the site has listed its duty as 100 second on and 10 second off. Dont look into it, it will blind you faster than you can blink. And dont ever shine them into motor grains because they are dark colored and absorbs green quite well... if you do manage to light it they will most likely chuff but you never know... Some people have reported to light black powder with this... SignatureTAI FU > Interesting...I didn't think ANY consumer pointer was that powerful! > Thanks for the tip. Luckily, mine is a low power model. It's built into [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>blinding yourself, but you might actually light the motor with the laser! >>(they are powerful enough to light matches, I can light match with mines) > I like igniterman better... you can use any scrap wire you have laying > around. As for laser pointers, make sure you use a 5 dollar 5 milliwatt red > laser pointer!!! DO NOT use a wicked laser... not only you risk blinding The $5 pointers are hardly 5mw. You've got to get a good one for a good bit more change to get close to the 5mw limit. Even the ones rated at 5mw are usually way below unless hand tweaked for maximum output. I just tried my tweaked GREEN 5mw laser, and not only doesn't it light a match, it doesn't even warm it up a bit. Still, heed the warning: "Do not look into laser beam with remaining eye". SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver! > I think I've got it! :-) Tonight I tried inserting the ignitors from home, > and found that if I use my laser pointer to first spot the slot, then mark [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'll do is just pre-insert ignitors into the motors I plan to use that day > as a time saving measure. Many range rules frown on installing ignitors in HPR models until they are on the pad. The HPR safety code says "...electrical motor igniters that are installed in the motor only after my rocket is at the launch pad or in a designated prepping area." SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver! > > I think I've got it! :-) Tonight I tried inserting the ignitors from home, > > and found that if I use my laser pointer to first spot the slot, then mark [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > installed in the motor only after my rocket is at the launch pad or in a > designated prepping area." It's a silly rule. SignatureTweak Someone said: >> Many range rules frown on installing ignitors in HPR models until they are >> on the pad. The HPR safety code says "...electrical motor igniters that are >> installed in the motor only after my rocket is at the launch pad or in a >> designated prepping area." >It's a silly rule. It might seem like a silly rule for igniters like Estes igniters and AeroTech Copperhead and FirstFire igniters, but when you consider all of the ignition options that exist then it becomes less of a silly rule. Without a source of electricity, high current igniters like AeroTech Copperhead and FirstFire igniters will not accidently fire. Igniters built around an ematch, however, can accidently ignite under the right, but rare, circumstances when electricity is not connected to the igniter leads. The situation becomes more complex with head-end igniters. > Someone said: > >> Many range rules frown on installing ignitors in HPR models until they are [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > right, but rare, circumstances when electricity is not connected to > the igniter leads. I want to see something more substantial (and substantiated) than "I heard". Where is the data? SignatureTweak > I think I've got it! :-) Tonight I tried inserting the ignitors from home, > and found that if I use my laser pointer to first spot the slot, then mark [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > trouble. Should also be more reliable for clustering too. > Craig Craig, That what I used to do, except I used a flashlight to find the slot. Your laser idea is much better. I'd take a razor blade & mark the location of the slot on the edge of the nozzle. I think AT sells some better ignitors than the Copperheads that you can purchase. Darian I feel your pain. :-( I've fiddled away lots of time messing with copperheads trying to get them to work too. A tip that someone told me that works well is to melt the leads apart with a Bic lighter. (on the non-pyrogen end of course!!) It makes hooking up a bit easier. Hey Gary!!! Are you listening? Most of your customers hate Crapperheads! I for one would be willing to pay a bit more for a reload that had a quality igniter. Joe Michel > Hello, was out at the park yesterday and finally got to fly my > Onyx...beautiful flight on an F20-4 Econojet. My question for the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > consider? Thank you! > Craig I thought the newer HPR reloads have these regular nichrome igniters.... thats only on HPR motors? SignatureTAI FU >I feel your pain. :-( I've fiddled away lots of time messing with >copperheads trying to get them to work too. A tip that someone told me [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> consider? Thank you! >> Craig Yes, the HPR motors have a real igniter in them. The mid-power SU motors and reloads have copperheads. Joe Michel >I thought the newer HPR reloads have these regular nichrome igniters.... >thats only on HPR motors? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>> consider? Thank you! >>> Craig > Yes, the HPR motors have a real igniter in them. The mid-power SU motors > and reloads have copperheads. > > Joe Michel The G79W & G77R comes with Firstfire ignitors too... Those use the 'standard' 29mm casings, not the 'hobby' 29mm casing. The 'hobby' ones use copperheads, but the ones that use different length casings come with the FirstFire igniters. David Erbas-White > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > Those use the 'standard' 29mm casings, not the 'hobby' 29mm casing. The > 'hobby' ones use copperheads, but the ones that use different length > casings come with the FirstFire igniters. True -- But the G motor isn't HPR either, eh? It's all a blur anyway... BTW - You asked if anybody's done velcro strength testing. My office buddy did so a few months ago during the post Columbia standdown. Velcro's everywhere to hold down everything like notepads, pencils, calculators, sunglasses, etc. Just wanted to make sure the stuff didn't let go during ascent. The gist was that the sep-force varied alot depending on if you were peeling apart or pulling in tension. Pure shear was pretty stout too. The separation impulse F/dt was probably the next factor. Fresh & old doesn't matter so much as how often you pull it apart. We've got some gripless velcro attachments inside station that had simply wore out. For recovery systems, I'd guess no more than about 1/4-1/2 inch of overlap & 1/2" wide is a reasonable starting point. I use the stuff by the rolls to hold down my guitar pedals and keep mic cables neat in the studio and at shows. May give it a try with rockets someday. Fun stuff... Best, Andy > Hello, was out at the park yesterday and finally got to fly my > Onyx...beautiful flight on an F20-4 Econojet. My question for the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > consider? Thank you! > Craig The other tip I saw go unmentioned is how to make the damn thing light... There are three methods I see most often... Heat up the leads on the side opposite the pyrogen with a lighter (provided the igniter is NOT inserted in the motor... That'd be a horrible idea), the leads will peel apart and you'll have two easy leads for clipping. Masking tape one side both sides of it so that the tape leaves about a 1/4-1/2 inch space on both sides of the lead. Buy one of those aerotech clips... those work pretty well. Biggest reason I see crapperheads not work is a short before the pyrogen. > The other tip I saw go unmentioned is how to make the damn thing > light... There are three methods I see most often... Heat up the leads > on the side opposite the pyrogen with a lighter... I held a lighter on one for 5 minutes and I never could get it to light. ;-) SignatureRocketry Planet — hobby rocketry news, feature articles, news archive, discussion forums, live chat, free auctions, launch calendar and the largest collection of web links anywhere! http://www.rocketryplanet.com > I held a lighter on one for 5 minutes and I never could get it to light. > ;-) Yeah, it's hard to smoke 'em when they won't light :) Doug Successful Copperhead user thanks to Bic lighters... > Biggest reason I see crapperheads not work is a short before the pyrogen. And the best fix is higher voltage to "blow" the shorts. SignatureBob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org S&T is becoming this decades Steve Weaver! |
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